I need some help , Im new to spec miata and im looking to get invalved in racing. However I dont have a race car. Many people have tould me the cheapest rout is to buy a spec miata race ready insted of building one of my own. The problem is, its very hard to come up with a large sum of money such as 8000 to get my self in a car. Is there any body out there that is willing to work out a payment plan and then once i have payed off the car i can drive it away ?
Region: NY
Car #: 48
Year : 90 Posts: 56
Status: Offline
posted
Blake
I dont know if your going to find someone that will be willing to do that. BUT if you are mechanically inclined and can build and work on the car,here are my thoughts. The 4 big money items are 1) the donor car 2)suspension package 3)roll cage 4) tires and wheels.Thats if you find a donor car with a Hard top,decent motor and tranny. If you shop around on this site ,Ebay, And other classifieds you can find some bargains and put together an entry level car for less than 8K. You could also sell the parts not needed on the donor car to recoup some of your money. 1) donor car 1990 - $2000 2) suspension - $1300 3) cage - Bolt in $700 or less 4) wheels/tires - $1000 add some other items and your on your way The important thing is that you can add things over time , when you get more money. You still need a trailer?
-------------------- JEFF GRUTER SM #48 EXCELL MOTORSPORTS PARAMOUNT TOOL & EQUIPTMENT http://www.ptetool.com/
Region: Delta; SWDIV
Car #: 15, 16
Year : 99, 92 Posts: 598
Status: Offline
posted
True, you can also write off a car going to get a gallon of milk. Some DEs are not considered timed events and some auto policies will cover this activity.
It all depends on each person and their risk tolerance.
-------------------- James York IM-Yahoo jmyork
sponsored by: Stan's Auto Center, Lafayette LA powered by: Sunbelt/East Street Racing, Memphis TN
Region: northeast
Year : 90 Posts: 153
Status: Offline
posted
quote:Originally posted by Dave Lewis: DEs can write off a car also. Seen it happen many times.
That is very true, especially when the instructor grabs the steering wheel and your 30,000 car gets personal with a tire wall.. (NASA event at Summit Point).
If you go the route of spec miata, then you buy it at the track, money in hand and it never leaves your sight. A spec miata builder, told me that secret.
As for payment plan, on a spec miata, some offer this in the Mid-Atlantic area, you rent a number of times then you get a spec miata relatively cheap. I don't know how much they knock off the price. But keep in mind, rental is one thing, the deposits are another, $5000 to $2500 on a deposit. Oh, and if you flat spot the tires, you have just now purchased four tire swings for little people or planter for some shrubs.
Go take a look on Craigslist for a donor, I got lucky, and mine came with a hardtop but it also came with some interesting problems (shocking the hell out of me, starting issues, seat issues, three handed shifting issues, and some rust problems).
Get involved with a group, SCCA, NASA, or EMRA, I prefer SCCA or EMRA, but that's me. Volunteer, there is something for everyone, plus you get to meet drivers that do this, see the wreaks and what it takes to get a race ready. The best driving was the driver that took the longer line and went throught the pit lane at Watkins Glen, after the "little" pile up at the Fun One. These are the things that you see that you really start asking do I have $8000.00 to lose..
-------------------- "where one ends, one shall begin".
Region: Oregon
Car #: 68
Year : 91 Posts: 2230
Status: Offline
posted
Worst case on a total is usually way less than $8k if it wasn't a fire or the top wasn't damaged. Just the cost of a donor and cage and transer everything else over. Did it last year with a donor I picked up for almost nothing in the middle of the downturn. Its just a lot of manual labor.
-bw
-------------------- Bruce Wilson Oregon Region SM Class Advisor
Region: NASA Mid-West
Car #: 077
Year : 1995 Posts: 169
Status: Offline
posted
Blake,
Sounds like we may be in similar boats. I likewise want to get into wheel-wheel in SM at some point. Not sure what your tracking background is, but I bought a bone stock '95 Miata last summer and am going to work up the NASA ladder. Plan to be at TT (Time Trials) by the end of this season. Then may find a good SM for around $10k over next off-season, then run TT a full season in the car I plan to race. That'll give me a season to sort out the car, and myself.
I have asked the same question here about buying a race car already set up, vs. building your own. Guys here are very helpful, so keep the questions coming. We all desire the same thing, someone to race with. What I've learned is buying one already set up, or close, is cheaper over the long haul. You'll learn more building your own car but may cost more once you are said and done. However, if you can spend a bit here and there over time, that may be a route to go.
You should be able to find an acceptable donor car for around $2000. You don't need anything cherry, since it's going to be a track car.
Let me also second about volunteering. I volunteered with NASA last season in Tech and Impound. In addition to the points earned for free track time it's also invaluable experience. You get a different perspective on this sport and get to meet the drivers of the different race groups and talk with them about their cars. I highly recommend volunteering!
Regarding guys wadding up their cars in DE. In my 2 years with NASA I've only seen one. And that was because on autocross guy went back to his autocross experience when he got in trouble at Road America. He went back to his herky-jerky technique instead of being smooth. You want to creep up on your limit, not jump over it during the morning session.
And the guys who get in trouble are usually the cocky guys who think they are God's gift to this sport. If you approach this sport with being safe and controlled, first, you will be fine. And show up at the track with the mindset that you know nothing. If you show up at the track humble, you will be OK. Otherwise this sport will humble you for you. In a typical NASA DE session, anyone who gets 2 wheels off is spoken to, and anyone who gets 4 wheels off twice loses their weekend. I can't speak for the SCCA, or any other group, but the goal with NASA is that you show up, have a great weekend, and drive home with you and your car safe.
Good Luck!
-------------------- "Driving is a serious business" - John Milner, 'American Graffiti'
Region: NASA MA
Car #: 50
Year : '96 Posts: 304
Status: Offline
posted
i built, and probably should have bought. it was a long, hard (but fun) process. i would have been on track much faster, with something much better (initially), and for less money. not sure what shops are up there, but bret @ rp performance probably has a rental car he'd sell, king rat may have a car to sell, collins probably has one (but it will likely be 3x+ what you want to spend), windsor, rossini, etc, etc. these are all in the DC area. with the economy the way it is, there are LOTS of cars for sale at good prices. see if someone local to you will help check out a car, and/or bring a potential purchase to a prep shop for a going-over before buying. someone who works on these cars for a living will be able to tell you a lot about it just by looking it over for an hour or two.
imo, buying one from a shop gets you some piece of mind. their reputation is their business, and it is unlikely they will knowingly sell a problem. any private party sale (as other threads have suggested) you should ask around on the site for history. most likely, someone will be able to add some information about it.
an ex-rental won't be the fastest car on track, but it will likely be reliable. the fastest car on the grid is not likely to improve your finishing position for a while. for me at least, the first couple years were spent largely making myself not suck so badly. it is a steep learning curve, and now i just suck less it is, however, the most fun you can have with your clothes on!
Region: Northwest
Car #: ICSCC #322
Year : 1990 Posts: 282
Status: Offline
posted
I took the route Jeff mentions for that very reason, coming up with the $8k-$10k in a single chunk was difficult on our budget.
So, I bought a good donor with hardtop for $2200...pick up extra work when I can, do stuff myself and grab deals when they present themselves.
It's taken longer than I anticipated (damn economy), but I'm in the home stretch (finally). Just some more cage work and a couple safety items away from my novice starts.
One thing I chose to do last summer on Carlo's advice (TC Motorsports) was to do the back half of my cage, suspension, seat, etc first (since I couldn't do it all at once and wasn't about to finance this sucker). This allows me to participate in track days and schools rather that just make "vroom-vroom" noises on jack stands in the garage, seat time baby!
Region: northeast
Year : 90 Posts: 153
Status: Offline
posted
If you should go the build route vs the buy, this is the advice I was told by Chris Windsor. "We build as you progress". There was a warning and wisdom behind that remark that I'm thankful he gave me. Had I bought that spec miata already built knowing what I know today, I would have cussed the car and then cussed the builder and then walked away. But probably would have never owed up, that the problem was me. There I would have owned a 6500 to 7000 toy.. Get as much seat time as possible and then see where you are. My first year, I have now graduated to R-compound tires. My last event I slid all over Summit point main, T3 was the worst. Do the small steps that are involved and you will thank yourself later.
-------------------- "where one ends, one shall begin".
Region: FLA
Car #: 97
Year : 1990 Posts: 65
Status: Offline
posted
Lots of good deals out there right now, but there is no such thing as a race ready car, until you have it preped and ready to go on track. They always need stuff, Rotors, pads, Hubs, Fluids, belts, hoses, Tires, seat blets, nets, Center Nets, etc.
I purchased a 1990 sm car from a reputable source for $7500. I Just got into spec miata last year after about 5 years of HPDEs and PCA instructing. Did a few HPDEs with the sm car, a TT, then 3 races last year. After about $4000 it is a track/race ready car. So be care full, there are plenty of deals out there but everybody has a different level of prep, saftey and reliability, not to mention HP, and Electronics,and being current with all the new good stuff. If I had to do it over again I would save and buy a car that was completely updated from a top shop, or build my own car with a top shop so you know what you have. There are so many parts, on a 17-19 year old car than can need replacing, and the condition of the engine, clutch, tranny,diff are all big buck items for a racer on a budget.
It is fun and the people are great and still probably one of the most bang for the buck classes.
Region: NASA Mid-West
Car #: 077
Year : 1995 Posts: 169
Status: Offline
posted
True, I've been looking as well. Depends upon the definition of "race ready". Personally speaking, I trust many of the guys in my NASA paddock. I will be asking them for opinions.
However, if you are looking for a cheap sport to get into, take up golfing.
-------------------- "Driving is a serious business" - John Milner, 'American Graffiti'
Region: NASA FL / CFR
Car #: 25
Year : 1991 Posts: 330
Status: Offline
posted
It's fine on my comp Mitch, I did notice that it was giant last week though?
As for the new SM racer...
Scour Craigslist everyday for a cheap, driveable miata (manual trans of course) and start building it up gradually. I found my 91 for $1700 with 212,000 miles, luckily a hardtop, and drove it on the street for a while. I sold my daily 350Z, went back to a cheaper daily, took out a loan to buy my race parts, had a cage installed for around $1700 (included some extras for gutting), and went racing. I just installed the necessary items to go racing: good cage, aluminum seat, good belts, brake pads, spec suspension, Team Dynamics wheels, and full tread Toyo's to last me a while and to eliminate needing a set of rain tires if it rained (like it did in my drivers school).
You really do not need ALL of the stuff on your car to go racing if you read the rules. You don't need a hardtop, and can use a lot of the stock equipment until you can afford the spec stuff (can we use the stock suspension still?).
After I did my drivers school and a couple of races I started saving up and buying upgrades when I could. I used the stock 212,000 mile engine for half the season before getting set up with a Race Engineering engine. I still have the stock 212,000 mile viscous diff in there as of last race (comp diff coming). These cars are surprisingly tough and can race in near street trim if need be.
You can also participate in NASA time trials while building your car to get seat time.
The deals on cars are out there, gotta hit craigslist everyday and jump on the deals. I just picked up a 94 for $1700, and typically the people selling them for sub $2000 prices are willing to let them go for even cheaper, so talking them down to a cheaper price is sometimes easier than you think.
As far as a payment plan, you are better off getting a personal loan from a bank to pay for a donor and the parts to build your own. That's gonna be the cheapest route and you will not owe a fellow racer money, just the bank (who cares about them anyways?)
Region: South East
Car #: #92
Year : 91 Posts: 169
Status: Offline
posted
I bought a wore out 91 that was wrecked lightly, got the car and the parts to fix it for $1,000. I had to replace the worn parts with race parts anyway. Traded out some work for the cage install, also found a hardtop on mx5atlanta forum.
Region: CFR
Car #: 97
Year : 1990/99 Posts: 598
Status: Offline
posted
quote:Originally posted by oem steve: I bought a wore out 91 that was wrecked lightly, got the car and the parts to fix it for $1,000. I had to replace the worn parts with race parts anyway. Traded out some work for the cage install, also found a hardtop on mx5atlanta forum.
Steve if you need anything else PM me. I have lots of 1.6 parts that I need to get rid of and will make you a hell of a deal.
Region: South East
Car #: #92
Year : 91 Posts: 169
Status: Offline
posted
thanks Jamie, I need a good hogged out motor and a tricked up ECU, any ideas? =D and maybe some dirt tires for the way I drive, actually PM me with your info thanks steve
Region: Northwest
Car #: 86
Year : 1995 Posts: 363
Status: Offline
posted
quote:Originally posted by d mathias: Don't d!ck around with older models - they're a dying breed.
That's a fairly outrageous statement given that (a) the original poster is just starting out racing, so national-level competitiveness will likely be the farthest thing from his mind for several years, and (b) several members of the SMAC have stated several times that they intend to keep the 1.6 competitive for the foreseeable future.
-------------------- Stephen Hui - '95 SM #86, Northwest / Oregon Region SCCA
Region: OVR
Car #: 88
Year : 1991 Posts: 2203
Status: Offline
posted
quote: (a) the original poster is just starting out racing, so national-level competitiveness will likely be the farthest thing from his mind for several years
If I were just now starting out I would build a '99 regardless of the level of competition. I really think the 1.6's days are numbered, especially once the 2006+ cars are added to SM. Beside they're getting old enough for vintage racing.
quote: (b) several members of the SMAC have stated several times that they intend to keep the 1.6 competitive for the foreseeable future
quote:Originally posted by Apex to Apex: True, I've been looking as well. Depends upon the definition of "race ready".
I just bought a "race ready" CRX Si ITA car. Going through the car, I've already discovered a few things that need to be fixed before the car hits the track (next Saturday). Also, it seems the kill switch doesn't shut down the engine when switched to OFF. One more thing to fix. Aargh!
Region: NNJR
Car #: 48
Year : 1996 Posts: 123
Status: Offline
posted
Blake, Having recently bought a 'regionally known good' car I can attest to the buy vs. bought approach.
However, as you're discovering, being able to plop down anything over $6k can be a stretch for a lot of folks. I just managed to not only save a bit from my 2008 bonus but stumbled upon the best deal (as everyone tells me) of the 2009 year.
Enough about me - back to your question/goal here: What do you hope to accomplish with your desire to get 'on track'?
If you're new to the driving scene (I didn't see a point of reference for your previous experience with "performance auto driving") and are curious then as suggested, your best bet is to attend any number of the HPDE events that take place here in the NE.
If you've done the HPDE stuff for a while and are not only looking to expand your skill set but to be able to compete in timed competitions, then you should be looking to get a dedicated track car.
From there, the next step is to identify what type of car you want to compete in. Miatas are a good start ('easy' to drive, fairly forgiving, inexpensive to run/operate/repair), I saw someone else say they found an ITA Honda CRX for a good price, someone else suggested a 1st gen RX-7 - another good option.
I'd even go as far as to suggest looking into Integras (lots of years available), Neons, E30 BMWs, heck I'd bet you could find a reasonably prepared 944 for about the same as a full-tilt SM.
Not to throw you further afield from your original post (and on to other forums) but you would do good to check out sccaforums.com. They might have a greater view of the 'SCCA field' and what options you have available. Plus they also have a "For Sale" section to scour as well.
Last bit: do not hesitate to visit a track during an event (be it SCCA, NASA, or any of the other HPDE groups in the NE**). Talk with the drivers/owners of the cars you'd be interested in owning. Ask them how they started (build v. buy), what gotchas they had during their ownership, what things to look out for with that specific vehicle. I think you'll find most of these guys are more than willing to talk/share/help you with your goals.
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it is, however, the most fun you can have with your clothes on!
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Beside they're getting old enough for vintage racing.![[Mad]](mad.gif)
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