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Author Topic: 2-Pole Master Switch?
MiataRacer31 Verified Driver
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I saw the document on how to properly wire a four-pole switch, but how do I wire up one that has only two? I'm guessing the positive wires to the "main" fuse and "Fuel Injector" relay would be broken, in addition to the positive lead to the alternator? So that would be three wires on each pole. Thanks.

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Dale
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Casey Z Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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There is a good diagram in this thread.

http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000021;p=0

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Z Brothers Racing / East Street Auto

Casey Z - 1.6 Kettle
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MiataRacer31 Verified Driver
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Can anybody tell me the best way to wiring a master kill switch with only two poles? I was thinkning of having it just cut the 80A main relay, but the thread above mentions either the negative or positive battery cable as well. I already have the switch and I don't want to go get a four or six pole switch. Anybody? thanks in advance.

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Dale
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d mathias Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Dale, I'll save you a search. Dave Wheeler posted this a couple years ago, the man is a genius, I would have never figured this out. I wired mine like this - works perfect. Here it is:

"I've let you guys talk about cutting wires, electrical problems and no starts for a while. Here's how I do it and why.

Anytime you break into the factory wiring harness you are looking for problems. Also, in a racecar you never want ANY chance of loose connections or power lose in the fuel or ignition systems. So, why does everybody insist on doing it this way?

I mount my switch on the rollcage about where the passengers right shoulder would be. I use a single pole switch with just 2 connecters.

Start by removing the positive battery cable from the car all the way to the starter. Remove all the tape and clips so it is a free standing cable. Route the cable back through the evaporator hole into the interior. Secure the cable to the trans tunnel with adel clamps. Cut the cable to length and with the proper sized lug attach to the switch. The left over cable is not long enough to reach back to the battery so you will need to purchase a battery cable to go from the battery to the switch.

To get the car to "kill" required some thought and a lot of looking at the wiring diagrams. But it is actually easy.

Remove the battery lead(white larger wire) from the alternator output lug. Cut the connector off and install a larger eyelet. Remove the nut from the starter cable and install the white wire directly to the starter.

Using 10 guage wire about 13 feet long connect the alternator post to BATTERY side of the kill switch. YOU'RE DONE

When you turn the switch off the battery is disconnected AND since the alternator output is hooked to the battery only the car will die. No cutting of wiring harnesses, no blown ECU, no worries mate!!!!"

[I didn't re-route the positive cable. I just just unhooked it in the trunk enough that it reached the switch mounted on the main hoop. -Denny]

Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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So the alternator is disconnected completely, and the car runs only off of battery power?

If so, a few consequences. You would need to recharge your battery periodically. It's probably worth a little HP, as generating 400 watts from the alternator requires one HP. Protest! On the other hand the ignition would be running on only 12V vs. 14V -- maybe suboptimal?

Interesting idea, though.

-Juan

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www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

d mathias Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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No, the alternator is connected to the battery side of the kill switch. When the circuit is closed it functions as OEM.

Jim Boemler Verified Driver
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Just FYI, after the race last weekend our tech guys verified that each battery was really charging.

jim

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Got it. Yea, that sounds pretty clever. It also provides good alternator protection because the alternator output stays connected to the battery.

The only down side that I can see is having a hot wire going to the engine compartment that could possibly get pinched and short out.

-Juan

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www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

Dusty Bottoms Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I made a diagram of Dave's circuit. I've been using this on my car for the last 2 years with no problems.

 -

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Casey Z Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Just an FYI, this is how we had mine wired originally. When I later pulled the motor I threw the kill switch and while in the process of pulling stuff off the motor I grounded the alternator with a wrench while attempting to disconnect it. Spark shower, not good.

We rewired my car so there is no power to the engine compartment once the switch is thrown. I believe that is the best way to go. Just remember you have high pressure fuel lines just a couple of inches above the wire connecting the battery to the alternator...

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Another FYI, disconnect battery before pulling motor. [Razz]

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quote:
Originally posted by d mathias:
Another FYI, disconnect battery before pulling motor. [Razz]

Yep.

Shame on you Casey! [shame] [Big Grin]

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"Your victory is tainted! Asterisk! Asterisk!!!"--Lisa Simpson

MiataRacer31 Verified Driver
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Denny,

Thanks! For whatever reason, my searches did nto return that information... only the info on the 4+ pole switches. I appreciate it, and am going to give this a try.

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Dale
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quote:
Originally posted by Antonio Garza:
quote:
Originally posted by d mathias:
Another FYI, disconnect battery before pulling motor. [Razz]

Yep.

Shame on you Casey! [shame] [Big Grin]

You may be surprised to learn that is the next thing I did... [Smile]

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Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Casey Zandbergen:
We rewired my car so there is no power to the engine compartment once the switch is thrown.

How did you wire that, with four pole switch? If so, what did you interrupt with the other two poles?

-Juan

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www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

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Juan, my brother redid the wiring I am not sure how he did it. We are at the track this weekend and I will ask him what the trick is.

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MiataRacer31 Verified Driver
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Quick question about the above instructions and diagram of Dave Wheeler's install. The picture shows a wire to the IG switch to the Starter, but the instructions don't mention the IG switch. My brain must be hemoraging, becasue I can't figure out this single pole/two connector install for the life of me. Maybe I'm thinking too much into it. I don't know (in the words of Mr. Spicolli).

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Dale
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Dale, don't worry about the ignition switch. That's just there for illustration purposes. Just worry about which wire to pull from the alternator...it just so happens to be wired to the ignition switch. Also don't worry about the instructions, follow the diagram above and the confusion will be lessened.

I'll put what I did in words to see if it helps.

1) Disconnect battery.
2) Take positive battery cable and cut off connector. Add 6 gauge terminal. I crimped and soldered mine.
3) Connect this to one end of the switch.
4) Get short (I forgot the length) length of 6 gauge wire with one post terminal and one small terminal. I believe the one I got normally fits a lawn tractor.
5) Connect this cable to the other side of the switch, leave the other end unconnected for now.
6) Take the wire off the B-terminal on the alternator, remove, connect to starter battery terminal...or cut it off if you feel like it. Dave doesn't like cutting the harness so in his original post/instructions he recommended just looping it.
7) Lay new wire (10-12gauge), put a terminal on one end to fit the B-terminal on the alternator, and another terminal to fit the battery side of the switch. Connect both ends.
8) Connect positive terminal on the battery...now you're set.

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You can just order the kit from Dave Wheeler and in 15-30 minutes you will be done. I am by no means a mechanic and I got this done quickly and easily as all parts are included with an excellent set of directions. For $80 you can't beat this high quality kit. I've got no stake in Advanced-Autosports. Just a very satisfied customer.

Dave

MiataRacer31 Verified Driver
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Dave,

No offense, but why would I order a kit when I already have everything? I just don't know how to install it. Also, it can't take just 15-30 minutes. I'll try Antonio's directions, but it looks like it will take longer. Time isn't a factor anyway, just doing it right is.

On a side note, is a master kill switch still optional? I know it didn't used to be required.

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Dale
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It's required now.

It's 15-30minutes if you have all the parts...which is the nice part about a kit. I had to buy several lengths of wire, lugs, etc.

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"Your victory is tainted! Asterisk! Asterisk!!!"--Lisa Simpson

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Dale, send me an email with a fax number and I will fax my instruction sheet to you.

Dave@advanced-autosports.com

Dave

--------------------
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MiataRacer31 Verified Driver
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All

I'm writing formal instructions so that ohters may benefit in the future. Can you please read the text below and let me know if it's correct? I do have one follow-up question at the end. Thanks!
-------------

How To Install A
Single Pole, 2_Connector Master Kill Switch
In A Spec Miata

By Dale Black, Dave Wheeler, Antonio Garza

What you need:
One single-pole/two-connector kill switch
Four feet of 6AWG coated & stranded wire
Twelve feet of 10/12AWG coated & stranded wire
Three 6AWG ring terminals (for the kill switch)
One 10/12AWGring terminal (for the Alternator)
One battery terminal (for the positive battery anode)

The instructions below assume the switch will be mounted to the passenger-side of the main hoop of the roll cage, or in the passenger-side of the panel that bolts behind the seat(s).

1) Disconnect battery.
2) Cut connector off positive battery cable and add 6AWG ring terminal (it is recommended that you crimp and solder the terminal for extra reliability).
3) Connect this to one end of the switch.
4) Take the four-foot length of 6AWG wire and install one 6AWG ring terminal on one end and one battery terminal on the other (you may be able to buy this as an assembly for a lawn tractor).
5) Connect the 6AWG side of the cable to the other side of the kill switch and leave the other end unconnected for now (it will connect to the positive battery anode).
6) Take the wire off the B-terminal on the alternator, remove, connect to starter battery terminal...or cut it off if you feel like it (Dave doesn't like cutting the harness so in his original post/instructions he recommended just looping it).
7) Lay new 10/12AWG wire, put a 10/12AWG ring terminal on one end to fit the B-terminal on the alternator, and a 6AWG ring terminal on the other end to fit the battery side of the switch. Connect both ends.
8) Connect positive terminal on the battery.

Question in reference to Step 6 above: There are only two wires connected to the alternator... a white one with a ring terminal and another with a harness-type plug. Which is the ďB-terminalĒ? Iím assuming itís the white one.

--------------------
Dale
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Chris Dyer
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As I am in the process of building my SM now... Does anyone have pics of where they have the master kill switch mounted??

I'll be out to play with everyone next season.

Thanks Guys

--------------------
Chris
New guy to the SM game

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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Dyer:
As I am in the process of building my SM now... Does anyone have pics of where they have the master kill switch mounted??

I'll be out to play with everyone next season.

Thanks Guys

Chris. I like it where the driver can reach it. Mine are on the drivers side roll bar near the A-Pillar. I actually am now having them mounted in the farthest left vent hole on the dash.

MEAT

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A couple thoughts:

-If you make/break a hot wire with your kill switch, whereever that hot wire is routed is a chance for a short to ground (chafing from vibration, or pinched in an accident). POOF! [flamed]

-If you make/break a ground wire with your kill switch, if it gets pinched it will only be shorting to itself, thus effectively bypassing the kill switch.

I really don't imagine my kill switch ever saving my life, but I'd be ticked if it fried my harness, DNF'd me, or blew boiling sulfuric acid all over my trunk.

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Werd. I break the negative side with mine.

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Jason Holland
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reviving this old forum, but i would like to add some details which could help future builders:
the white wire on the passenger side of the alternator gets rerouted to the highestandforwardmost pole of the starter (Step 6 above).
step 7 lays a new wire from where the white wire originally was on the alternator to the "battery" pole of the master kill switch -- thats the same pole as your new short cable to the positive battery terminal.
somehow this works without sparks or flames.
I bought my 2-pole switch from Advanced Autosports. it came with good directions, but the first part of the directions said to pull the factory cable from the positive side of the battery down out of the trunk, separate from the PPF...then run it back into the car through the firewall.
i didnt do that. I left the cable in the trunk, ran it up the roll cage to the switch, which was mounted just 2 feet from the battery. i then ran my new long wire along the same route as the +cable (along the PPF) to the switch.
i am not sure why AA recommended all the old wires removed and rerouted when they are already in place and secure?
thanks for the great diagram Antonio

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Do any of you also kill the coilpack on the rear of the head, effectively killing spark to the motor? I think that's how I'm going to wire mine, in addition to killing the batt and alt.

--------------------
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quote:
Originally posted by CP:
Do any of you also kill the coilpack on the rear of the head, effectively killing spark to the motor? I think that's how I'm going to wire mine, in addition to killing the batt and alt.

I'm not sure why you'd need to do that; once you've removed the Batt and Alt from the circuit (the positive side) via the master disconnect, the coil pack has nothing to run on. Am I missing anything here? [scratchchin]

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I think that idea would allow for an early warning system.

When the kill switch starts thinking about going bad (and they do) then the car would run like crap earlier in the process than if the ignition is not involved in the circuit.

Extra redundancy and complication can be a bad thing.

Matt Johnson Verified Driver
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Best way to keep a kill switch from going bad: only use it when absolutely nesecary while there is an electrical load going through it.

--------------------
Matt Johnson
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A couple points:

With my diagram, there is no reason to get into the wireing for the coils. If you stop the flow of electricity from both the alternator and the battery, EVERYTHING will stop when you switch the master off.

I pull the wiring off the PPF for ease of future repair work. Pulling the motor or ttans or diff, or driveshaft is much easier with the battery cable moved to the interior. I have also seen battery cables hanging low off the ppf after soem well meaning mechanic broke the clips.

I am sure it happens, but I have never seen a failure of a metal master switch with the fixed handle. I have seen many of the plastic ones (with the removable handle) fail. I never use a plastic master switch.


Just my 2 cents
Dave

--------------------
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For some, it might be worth noting that there are both positive and negative terminals on the starter. The positive terminal is difficult to see and easy to miss. But if you connect to the negative, then you will short the battery (producing an unpleasant sulfur smell). The positive starter terminal is toward the top of the starter -- covered by a plastic shroud. This is the one to use if you are following Dave Wheeler's instructions.

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Just by the kit that dave sells and be done with it. It takes about 15 minutes to install and I have never had a problem with them. (two wire)

--------------------
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I bought the kit but managed to connect it to the wrong terminal on the starter. It was apparent something was wrong when the battery emitted a sulfur smell. I didn't realize there were two terminals on the starter until I looked at the workshop manual. Dave's instructions don't mention this and the positive terminal is very hard to see even through the wheel well. Anyway, once I connected to the correct terminal it worked fine.

   

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