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Author Topic: Buy existing or build my 2002?
Tvance13
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Try 7's only, they are located at Buttonwillow Race Track.

--------------------
http://TylerVanceRacing.com

Johnny D Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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How's this?
This one's at Buttonwillow Raceway.
http://sevensonly.com/

It was on your Calclub resoures page.
http://www.calclub.com/html/headerpages/roadracing/resources.htm
J~

Eric Richter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Yes, 7's Only is who built my cage. I would also call Luis at Rush, he has pretty nice cages in his cars as well.

--------------------
2009 SoCal SCCA SM Champion
"Only boring people get bored"

Tvance13
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Eric - So true, he does nice work. But based on what I see in the photos I am guessing he will want to cut that cage out of the car and replace it with a new one, not try to fix it. I guess it is worth a try. Good luck.

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http://TylerVanceRacing.com

Hqen2000
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Year : 1993
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I went to the track day event at willow springs today. My best time I could muster up was 1:52:983 I don't know if that's bad or good for my first time on a track ever. The biggest problem I had was traffic, I was running a lot faster the turns than many of the cars there, even 911 Turbos and such. But they would only allow passing on the straights and that was only if the person does a pointby. So I had lots of trouble with 911s, M3s, M5s, etc. (high power cars), that wouldn't slow to let me pass on the straights (a 120hp car can't pass a 500hp car on a straight away unless the 500hp car allows it). So it took me showing some of them that I was faster and flashing my lights before they'd let me pass, making my times suck because the only times I wasn't restricted was in the straights which does not matter much in a Miata. I made a few unrestricted passes (that's what one of those 1:52 ones were) but as soon as I started getting in the grove and my tires got warm I'd start going faster then run into traffic. Next time I go I'll be racing in one of the different classes where I can pass and also be racing with faster cars.

But the car performed pretty good. I don't really know if it's setup well because I don't know any different. It seems like I'll never lean all the stuff about tow, camber, etc. I have no idea what any of that stuff does to the car.

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1993 Spec Miata #94

Shop Teacher
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Region: SF Nor Cal
Car #: #39
Year : 1990
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark de Regt:
Here's my son's build sheet, for his 1.6:
http://akilla.net/pics/smbuild.xls

Note that it only includes relatively minor motor work, rather than a new motor.

He spent a lot more than I did, initially, but I suspect I've caught up with him.

I bought my car from a known good guy and excellent driver. The car had never been wrecked and wired back together. That was my biggest concern. Buy locally has several advantages, notably some level of support from the seller if he's a decent person, and the car is known in the community, meaning that people can warn you off.

Otherwise, the obvious: How old is the motor?; look at the logbook to see if there are any red flags; look at suspension and brake parts to see if there's anything obviously amiss. This month's SCCA rag has an article on buying a used car.

I have a 1.6, so I know nothing of the newer cars.

WOW those prices are way low. Ok Miata isnt even in business anymore. Transponder 325- maybe 3 years ago. Its a good list but call around for prices

--------------------
Al Angulo
Auto Instructor
Ford Senior Master Tech
ASE Master Tech

Hqen2000
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I just wanted to thank everyone who helped me with this. I'm all good now. Now I just need to perfect the car and learn how to race.

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1993 Spec Miata #94

Eric Richter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Continue to do track days with Speed Ventures and or join NASA and do their HPDE program. You will get a lot of track time for your dollar. I would get to know the car and get your times down and then take either the race school with NASA or SCCA.

--------------------
2009 SoCal SCCA SM Champion
"Only boring people get bored"

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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quote:
Originally posted by Hqen2000:
Do you know of a shop in So Cal that can do this? I'm picking up a trailer today so I can tow the car wherever I need it to go.

Talk to Ed over at Groma Race Fabrications (210 @605)

2088 Central Avenue Unit B
Duarte, CA 91010
ed@gromafab.com
626-531-6430

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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quote:
Originally posted by Eric Richter:
Continue to do track days with Speed Ventures and or join NASA and do their HPDE program. You will get a lot of track time for your dollar. I would get to know the car and get your times down and then take either the race school with NASA or SCCA.

I strongly recommend going the HPDE route... You get instructors with price of admission (take advantage of this resource) and the NASA officials will get to know you (hopefully for good reasons).

The biggest reason to go HPDE'ing is you can get to know the NASA competitors. Take advantage of the time by pitting near SM teams ask a bunch questions and hang out. We're a friendly group, only a few of us bite.

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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quote:
Originally posted by Hqen2000:
What else do I need now that I have the car? I want to get a removable steering wheel. Then I'm not sure what else.

Focus on safety items:

Right-side/Cage Net: To get your NASA Log Book his is required if your seat does not have Head-Restraint (aka: halo).

Seat: Consider getting a seat with a head protection (halo), it is requires in NASA is you don't have a right side net

Fire System: I recommend that you get a system that puts at least two nozzles on you, one on the motor and maybe on in the trunk.


If you have specific or additional questions feel free to PM me.

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

jsh Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Hqen2000:
I have a net for the drivers side. I know it needs a door bar for the passenger side. I'm not sure how much bar it needs if it's just the single or more. But I'm going to take it to my local race shop to have them fix it up. But till then I can do HPDE I suppose.

I can't race at NASA events till the cage fixed right?

Whooa! I don't think that NASA, SCCA or any other sanctioning body is going to let you race with one track day under your belt. Suggest you drive in DE's for at least a year or so, learn how to drive and gain some track awareness...

Hqen2000
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Yeah, on Friday I went over to the test & tune at Willow Springs. I raced a bit on the streets then went over to the big track. I was able to get my times cut down to the 1:44-1:45 range. Which at the HPDE I was only able to do a 1:52 so I've improved greatly.

I plan on doing more HPDE but I'm just trying to get the car setup. I have no idea what needs to be adjusted or how to adjust it. So it's pretty difficult. What's the HALO thing I need for NASA? Can I just use on of those Hans devices? All these safety requirements are difficult.

It's at a shop right now getting the right door bar installed. They're also going to get the SCCA requirements to make sure I'm compliant. I didn't think I was going to do any NASA events for a while. I want to get into the SCCA first. They're supposed to be smaller events.

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1993 Spec Miata #94

Hqen2000
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b8Xqg12Wi8

Here is some video of my runs. If anyone can critique it a bit and let me know where I can improve it would be greatly appreciated.

--------------------
1993 Spec Miata #94

Eric Richter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Well, since you asked. First of all, where is your other hand as you go thru T1? And speaking of hands, try to work on a consistent 10 and 2 or 9 and 3 hand placement. Keep both hands on the wheel unless shifting. It seems you are down shifting as you go into T5, you should be in 3rd all the way from T3 and then brake before T5 then flat and into 4th as you go down the back straight. Also, no lift or brake thru T8. Down shift into 4th and light brake or lift into T9. I'm sure others will chime in with other things.

I would join NASA and get some coaching in HPDE. If you have a passenger seat, I would be happy to help you out with the line and shift points. Are you coming to the NASA Buttonwillow event in a couple of weeks.

--------------------
2009 SoCal SCCA SM Champion
"Only boring people get bored"

Unsafe Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Hqen - nice video!

You have plenty of great guys out west that can help you with track specifics, but +1 on getting those hands back to the wheel. Use the inside hand to pull and get the car turned down on the apexes. You will see them sooner if you get your eyes a turn or two ahead as well.

I wanted to see you bump draft the 911, but he might not understand....

--------------------
Mike Asselta
http://www.saferacer.com

Hqen2000
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Yeah, everyone has told me about the hands. I'm not sure why I always take my hands off the wheel. Someone also commented that it looks like I'm just driving around town and not actually racing, which implies I'm not pushing the car hard.

If I'm about to shift I just instinctively put my hand on the shifter in anticipation. But I do see how doing turn T1 at 80mph with 1 hand on the wheel is generally a bad idea. I used to shift a whole lot more so my instincts tell me I need to shift so I put my hand on the shifter, I don't actually shift but as the RPMs go up and down my brain is saying shift so my hand goes on the shifter, but I'm not actually shifting except for those T3 (down to 3rd) and T6 (up to 4th).

When go to T3 I downshift to 3rd because there is that hill and I have to go too slow for 4th, so I stay in 3rd till T6 in which I go to 4th, I then stay in 4th till I get to T3 again, so I only do between 3rd and 4th. I get really close to redline on the straights at around 110mph, but I tried going into 5th and it does not seem to give me any additional speed for the time it takes to shift. I know I can do T1 a lot faster than I'm doing, right now I do it around 75-80. I'm pretty sure I can move that up to 85-90 but it's pretty scary.

At T8 I can't help but slow, I feel like I'm just going too fast to negotiate the turn at those speeds (105-110mph), I only slow down to around 100 I think. T9 is scary, I can't seem to apex it right, when I go to the outside to make my turn I feel like I can't steer the car to the outside and at the same time setup the turn because it's putting too much Gforce on the car. I've slowly done it quicker and quicker but I'm not consistent on that turn at all.

I need to know what line I need for T9 because right now every time I come around I do something different looking to go faster but I'm changing it up every time.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

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1993 Spec Miata #94

Mark Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Fixing the hands issue would be a good thing. Don't worry too much about feeling or looking slow at Willow. Watch one of Jonathan Christians' WSIR videos on youtube. At a track record pace he looks like he is driving in slow motion. Being smooth and slow hands are the way to go fast at Willow. Going fast there is really a deceptive experience.

More importantly, you are in a race car driving at race speeds with other cars on track in race/test mode now. Bad stuff can happen really quickly. Get some safety gear. You'll need it anyway to race so might as well invest now.

--------------------
Mark
http://www.ironcanyonmotorsports.com

Hqen2000
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What safety gear should I get?

--------------------
1993 Spec Miata #94

Hqen2000
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I'm looking for other Spec Miata WSIR videos and I can't really find any. What would be a good time at that track?

--------------------
1993 Spec Miata #94

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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quote:
Originally posted by Hqen2000:
What safety gear should I get?

quote:
Originally posted by Hqen2000:
I'm looking for other Spec Miata WSIR videos and I can't really find any. What would be a good time at that track?

Dude, PM me your contact info & I can help you out with gear and how to find lap times.

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Ideally you should wear the same level of safety gear you need for racing. We don't all start out that way though.

Do yourself a favor and at least wear long sleeves and pants, gloves, and proper driving shoes. The long sleeves will at least give you a minimal degree of protection from burns (very minimal and stay away from stuff like nylon track suits), sunburn, and stuff flying in the window which hurts like hell. Gloves prevent blisters too.

It can be different driving with real driving shoes. It can make it easier to heel toe, or you could find that they're narrow and your foot slips between the pedals so it's best to find that out early and get your technique/equipment right.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Hqen2000
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Right now I can't heel toe at all, I don't have enough room in the car. I got an extension thing for the pedal on ebay that should give me a bigger patch for the gas. I haven't put it on yet.

I'll start putting together racing gear... Especially since the test & tune I was at does not have any safety personnel there. So I'm pretty much on my own.

--------------------
1993 Spec Miata #94

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Hqen2000:
I'm looking for other Spec Miata WSIR videos and I can't really find any. What would be a good time at that track?

If you don't mind watching videos from a midpacker, go to http://www.trackhq.com and watch some of my videos. I have TONS. You'll need the DivX codec to be able to view them.

Ignore all the collisions [fight]

--------------------
It really makes my week when nobody crashes into me.

Hqen2000
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that's one thing I noticed, it seems that racing with other people is WAY different than just racing a HPDE event. How can I run the perfect line when there is another car in the perfect line and I have to take the inside/outside. But thanks, i'll check out the videos.

--------------------
1993 Spec Miata #94

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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You might not like that pedal extension. Under hard braking, your brake pedal is usually lower than the gas. The extension makes the gas even higher and those extensions can be WIDE. I kept punching the gas every time I hit the brakes which caused much laughing in the peanut gallery due to the problems it caused.

I made my own. The brake has an extension that's a bit wider than the OEM pedal, and the gas has an extension on the underside making my blipper lower.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
... making my blipper lower.

Keith, you should see a doctor about that. [burst]


(sorry couldn't resist)

J

Hqen2000
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Can you show me what you made. I didn't think about it being lower. Right now I have zero heel toe ability, I have to use the clutch for everything. If I could put my seat back more it would be better but it hits the rollbar.

quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
You might not like that pedal extension. Under hard braking, your brake pedal is usually lower than the gas. The extension makes the gas even higher and those extensions can be WIDE. I kept punching the gas every time I hit the brakes which caused much laughing in the peanut gallery due to the problems it caused.

I made my own. The brake has an extension that's a bit wider than the OEM pedal, and the gas has an extension on the underside making my blipper lower.


--------------------
1993 Spec Miata #94

Hqen2000
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When I look at race suits and shoes and stuff it's so overwhelming. I have no idea what's good. I tend to just want something cheap, but I don't know the difference. Plus I normally wear a size 14, what size shoe would fit? I don't know... Is there anywhere in So Cal where I can go buy this stuff in person to make sure it all fits?

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1993 Spec Miata #94

Alberto M Goncalves
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Since no one has mentioned it yet, read this book:

http://goaheadtakethewheel.com/How_to_Start_Racing.html

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I'll try to put the pics in. If this doesn't work I'll change it to links.

 -

 -

The black stuff is grip tape. The lightening holes were just for fun. The holes on the gas pedal (odd shaped one) line up with the holes in the pedal. It's funny shaped to fit around the support on the back side of the gas pedal. I started with cardboard to get the shapes right. I can't find the pics of them in the car but they work great.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Forget Heel and Toe....watch the third video for the most amazing footwork you will ever see by a race driver! Walter Rohrl
http://dedeporsche.posterous.com/three-videos-walter-rohrl-porsche-911-gt2-son

--------------------
Paul McLester

Mark Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Here is a video of one of Jonathans races at WS. Great to learn from as his lines are so consistent. You can't see his hands here but listen to his working the throttle. Not much on / off stuff going on. Unfortunately all the w2w stuff is in the mirror though Grant makes a play on the front straight only to be denied. I love the drive from both P1 and P2 cars through T9 on the last lap. Ballsy stuff if you have experienced T9 at WS before.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6385543662268054328&hl=en#

--------------------
Mark
http://www.ironcanyonmotorsports.com

RSchuster
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quote:
Originally posted by Gatoratty:
Forget Heel and Toe....watch the third video for the most amazing footwork you will ever see by a race driver! Walter Rohrl
http://dedeporsche.posterous.com/three-videos-walter-rohrl-porsche-911-gt2-son

Your kidding right? He is one of the best in the business at heel toe! I'll let you foget about one of the most important techniques in racing and i'll try n master it.

--------------------
Ryan Schuster

Wreckerboy Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Hqen2000:
Right now I can't heel toe at all, I don't have enough room in the car. I got an extension thing for the pedal on ebay that should give me a bigger patch for the gas. I haven't put it on yet.

There may be an easy button solution for this, drawing from my personal experience.

What shoes are you wearing? Sneakers? If you are a larger guy and are finding real estate for your feet in short supply go ahead and purchase a decent set of Nomex driving shoes. They are much smaller externally, and will go a long way towards freeing up your feet.

Next, if the issue is your knees hitting the steering wheel, put an extension/spacer on the aftermarket wheel you are running. That will push the wheel back towards you and clear up a ton of room for your legs.

I'm 6'2", with most of my height in my torso, which is the wrong combination for these cars. I made those two simple changes as my car was transitioning from HPDE to SSM and it made life a bunch easier.

--------------------
Rob Myles
Hero To The Momentum Impaired

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Ryan.....it was a joke.

--------------------
Paul McLester

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Wreckerboy:
I'm 6'2", with most of my height in my torso, which is the wrong combination for these cars. I made those two simple changes as my car was transitioning from HPDE to SSM and it made life a bunch easier.

I'm about 2 inches shorter than Rob and I had interference problem with my knees too. The problem I found with the steering column extender is although my knees fit now, due to long arms my elbows hit the big winged rib supporters on my racing seat. The solution I'm planning...move the steering wheel fwd but put on a smaller wheel. Fitting in these cars properly without spending a lot of money can be a PITA.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Mitch Taylor
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nice job of the pedal keith, I was lookin for something lik that, rennspeed makes them for 911s and they are fully adjustable.
it seem no one make a good Miata pedal setup.

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Thanks. That was version 3. Versions 1 and 2 sucked. [Razz]

I came up with a way to make them adjustable but they worked well enough I didn't go the extra step.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Hqen2000
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That looks good. You should sell them. I'm not sure what would work for me. I need some really small racing shoes first to see if I can get a lil more room. Right now I wear some Pumas that are pretty small but they're not as small as racing shoes (some of them at least).

quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
I'll try to put the pics in. If this doesn't work I'll change it to links.

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The black stuff is grip tape. The lightening holes were just for fun. The holes on the gas pedal (odd shaped one) line up with the holes in the pedal. It's funny shaped to fit around the support on the back side of the gas pedal. I started with cardboard to get the shapes right. I can't find the pics of them in the car but they work great.


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1993 Spec Miata #94

Hqen2000
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Year : 1993
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Ok, everyone has successfully convinced me that going out with no neck protection or anything other than a helmet is a bad idea. So I'm going to purchase all my safety stuff now. I'm going to start with a Hans type device, but I'm not sure which is the best one to get. I know I need a large, but I don't know which 'type' i need. Or do I want something besides a hans, like one of the competitors.

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1993 Spec Miata #94

Johnny D Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I use the Sports Series.
http://www.saferacer.com/hans-device-sport-series-hans-device.html?productid=1296

It's also best to use the 2" (I think) wide belts that fit in/over the shoulder area of the Hans.
J~

David Dewhurst
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If you have no intention of using a halo seat the HANS offers very litle laterial protection.

The Defnder has equal frontal protection & 80-90% removal of lateral loads.

The Isaac also has load reduction similar to the Defnder but is not SFI certified.

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Have Fun [Wink]

David Dewhurst
CenDiv
Milwaukee Region
Spec Miata #14

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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HANS extra with quick release sliders. By the way SFI does not test for lateral loads and to my knowledge defnder has not been tested for them either. Isaac isn't certified by anyone except Gregg.

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Paul McLester

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Gatoratty:
HANS extra with quick release sliders. By the way SFI does not test for lateral loads and to my knowledge defnder has not been tested for them either. Isaac isn't certified by anyone except Gregg.

SFI does straight on and 30-degree right lateral angle testing only.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Hqen2000
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Sounds like the defNder is probably going to be my best bet? I like that you can adjust it for different seat angles. I'm not sure which Hans would be best for me but the defNder would work either way.

If that seems like a good solution I'll go with that. Do I need the extra helmet hardware?

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1993 Spec Miata #94

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I'm very happy with my defNder and a couple folks with the HANS have tried it on and like it too. The raised supports above the shoulders seem to limit lateral head movement. It did take me a while to be able to hook up the tethers in the car rather than climb in wearing my helmet and HNR. It also comes with a hat. (oooooh!) [Smile]

I doubt you'll see requirements for lateral loads any time soon. I don't think there is sufficient data to say what is an acceptable load, just that too much is bad.

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Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Keith,

I test-fitted that device and found it unwieldy. I imagine a bit more experience and I might have gotten used to it. Did you look at the Hutchens Hybrid systems? They look like they may be the best of all solutions, but I haven't seen one in person nor on any major racers.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I looked at the Hutchens at PRI. They look pretty good, but I already had my HANS and I haven't seen anyone using one at the track. They are also about the price of a HANS pro. The new Hybrid rage is like the HANS sport at $595.00.

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Paul McLester

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I definately found it awkward at 1st. They definately take some getting used to.

The Hutchins device looked interesting but I haven't seen anyone wearing one to try on. The back hump looks uncomfortable but you can't really get a feel for any of them without a helmet clipped in, and being strapped into the seat makes a big difference too.

I really like the concept of the Leatt Moto R too since it doesn't attach to your helmet allowing you to turn your head. I found several things took a bit of adjusting to not being able to turn my head...things as simple feeling around for a glove sitting somewhere in my car without being able to look for it.

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Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

 
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