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Author Topic: HPT DOUBLE National
wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Forwarded from the KVRG. There should be some good parties:

Registration is open for the "Last Chance" Double National at Heartland Park on Labor Day weekend, August 30/31 and Sept 1.

Info is up on DLBracing.com or at:

http://www.KVRG.org

We'll have tons of track time, an opportunity for lots of national points and great competition in all classes. This is really our last big blowout event before the Runoffs leave HPT and we hope you'll come join us.

IPRESS Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Good Luck to my SAFERACER team heading to Topeka.
SAFE is on a consistent hot streak...... NOTSOSAFE got a late start this year, but should be coming on.....UNSAFE maybe the fastest if he will just relax and let it flow....and DYNOSAMMY is the SM field Wild Card.
Wish I could have made it this weekend to run the "A" races and cheer you guys on to the podium. But in the words of Guvna William J. LePetomane, "WORK WORK WORK WORK WORK [rolling on floor laughin] !"

--------------------
Mac Spikes
IPRESS Racing
MER
East Street Auto
SAFERACER
Hoosier
Carbotech
MotorSport Ranch
Cresson, Texas
"To hell with you Gen. Sheridan...I 'll take Texas!"

LOREN WALLACE IS MY HERO!

EdMabry Verified Driver
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Region: Ark
Car #: 83
Year : 1992
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My FAVORITE Guvna!Still looking for an assistant like his! Isn't "work" a four letter word? At your age Mac...you should know better! You should be golfing...of testing tire walls. I'm still mending....it's heck to be "wounded" and not be able to come out and play! Good luck to the Saferacer gang and everyone else.

--------------------
Deja Moo...the feeling you've heard that bull before!

Unsafe Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Team Saferacer

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Should be fun guys...would be nice to defend our "home track" honor for the Midiv....

--------------------
Mike Asselta
http://www.saferacer.com

Rich Verified Driver
Oh, that's where that is.

Region: STL
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Yeah, better than 10th at the Runoffs would be nice too, what happened to the '94 freight train last year? I guess Sammy didn't want to be the caboose and ditched Charlie? Anyways, time to defend our honour, put some warning shots out there this weekend boys! I'll be kicking back getting ready for october on my couch doing 12oz. curls. [Smile]

--------------------
Rich Wiese

Spec Wrecker Ford

Casey Z Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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So what happened?

--------------------
----------------
Z Brothers Racing / East Street Auto

Casey Z - 1.6 Kettle
MidDiv National #13

cnj
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Year : 1999
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I would post the results but they were not out when I left the track - and I am sure to get them wrong if I simply guess. I know I was not at the front of the pack <LOL>.

The interesting thing of the weekend has been the tech inspections by a Spec Miata compliance team. After qualifying we all were weighed and then asked to remove our right side front and rear wheels. Much measuring and checking of bushings, sway bars and a couple of other things on the suspension I did not catch. Everyone had a fuel test. Additionally all seat mounts were checked for an additional support/mounting under the car (only 2 of 8 cars passed). We were all given time to fix this mounting, so the weekend is not compromised. Everyone passed all other tests to my knowledge (no DQ's).

After race we were all impounded and electrics tests were done to confirm that cut off switch is wired correctly. Restrictor plate was checked. They may have checked other minor stuff but I got bored by then. I did not hear of any failures. We were told that our mainifolds were all going to be removed (which got my attention) but after some discussion it was decided that they would mark them today and we should expect them to be removed tomorrow. We were also told to expect to all be impounded tomorrow for more invasive tests.

I approached all of this with mixed feelings. I am glad that our class is being monitored and I have a firm belief that strict compliance testing will keep everyone honest (a good thing) on the other hand I wish it was happening to someone else. Its gonna be a long day tomorrow.

Craig J

Edens Verified Driver
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Craig can you explain what was looked for on the seat mounting, and what failed?

Thanks

--------------------
1993 Spec Miata
sponsored by:
MTECH- Miata TECHnology
Sherwood Tire Pros

cnj
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Chris,

They were looking for supports that would stop the bolts from ripping through the under tray in the event of an accident. The inspector quoted the GCR section and wrote this in our log books but I don't have that with me at the moment. He indicated to us that the section was not as clear as he believes it could/should be and encouraged us to write to the CRB for clarification.

I looked at the only two cars that passed and both of them (Saferacer cars) had 2"X2" plate washers (1/16" thick I think) under the body through which the seat bolts passed.

I looked at mine and the rear bolts are easy to do this with but the front bolts currently use the stock seat mounts which presumably don't meet his standards. It is not clear to me if this is one of the things that the Spec Compliance group that underwent training recently covered and therefore there is common understanding on this issue - I will ask the inspector tomorrow.

Craig J

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Craig, the stock seat mounts should be legal, they are reinforced.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

cnj
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Kent,

One would think so, certainly for the front mounts - but all but 2 of the SM's running now have notations in our log books which we have 90 days to rectify....

We need to get clarification.

Craig J

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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maybe we out to let a tech inspector try to remove a stock mount sometime....

trust me... it's hard work.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Edens Verified Driver
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Any results from Topeka???

--------------------
1993 Spec Miata
sponsored by:
MTECH- Miata TECHnology
Sherwood Tire Pros

Jason Saini Verified Driver Series Champ
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Craig,

Give us a call to discuss the seat mounts - Stock mounts should be compliant, we will need to get clarification. If there weren't washers on the rear, they need to be added.

Thanks!

--------------------
-Jason Saini :: Fort Worth, TX
-Team MER :: 2007 MX-5 Cup Champion
-2008 SPEED TC Rookie of the Year!
-Based at Motorsport Ranch
-Autobarn Mazda . SafeRACER

wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Sunday
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=945449&perclass=1

IPRESS Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Heard Chris Albin had a hub problem that sent him into T3 wall on Sunday in his HP car. Going to be OKAY, but may have broken his kneecap and a vertebrae. Shows anybody can get hurt. He is a wheelman and has been for a long time.

--------------------
Mac Spikes
IPRESS Racing
MER
East Street Auto
SAFERACER
Hoosier
Carbotech
MotorSport Ranch
Cresson, Texas
"To hell with you Gen. Sheridan...I 'll take Texas!"

LOREN WALLACE IS MY HERO!

wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Chris was the third driver that ended up at the local hospital over the weekend. In addition, Mike McGinley totaled his 08 Vette T-1 car on Friday, when he impacted the wall near 11. He hit head on, at high speed. No question that his HANS saved his neck, if not his life. I took my Hans out of the bag and wore it every session, which I don't normally do. The engine ended up pretty much under the console, pointing down at 45 degree angle.
Travis Norwall's ITA Miata hit the wall on the outside of 10, backwards. It was driven by a renter, don't know his name. The car got slightly airborne before hitting dead backwards. It Knocked over one section of concrete wall and moved another. All three drivers sustained some injuries, but nothing serious, from what I was told.

The cage in Travis' car, the seat mount and brace, all performed well. Although the back of the car was compressed a lot, the rear down tubes held up, as did the rest of the cockpit.

wheel

Blake Thompson Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by cnj:

Additionally all seat mounts were checked for an additional support/mounting under the car (only 2 of 8 cars passed).
Craig J

Please explain this better?

*update* i read the rest of the thread. I'm surprised that the stock bolt holes are not legit, we went way out of our way to use those holes rather than drilling the floor pan.

--------------------
http://btdtracing.com - YOUR Miata Parts Pimp

ODTVI
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Year : 91
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Stock seat mounts not adequate!?! I say we do a pull test to determine what is strong enough for a 20g crash load (only kidding). I would be interested to know what the Highway & Transportation requirements are for seat mounts before we go calling something unsafe. As a shorter driver I find the stock mounts perfect for my seat height. I have removed these mounts from another car...and man is it tough! Remember we are held in by the belts, not the seat (except less so for rear impact).
Besides the seat/floor mounts, what about seats that require a mounting bracket? Were those mounts and attaching bolts looked at? Those type setups prove could be the weaker link in the chain.
On another note, I looked at Travis' car and noticed that the seat back brace tube was sticking out past the roll cage now. I cut mine off so that is well within the confines of my cage for that very reason. It appears from one of the photos I saw, that the wall (and smashed sheet metal) came very close to making contact with the tube. Man what a back injury that would cause!
The Corvette crash was definitely proof that the H&N devices work.
In both cases the HPT safety crews did an awesome job. Thanks workers.

--------------------
Ren Tucker
(aka Renny Bobby)

cnj
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Ren,

I trust in reading my posts you understand that I am not expressing an opinion on the strength of the mounts, just reporting that we got log book notations apparently relating to using the front mounts and a simple bolt and normal washer at the rear mounts. Regarding seat back braces, I am not sure that any of the cars running had these, but I might be wrong. I have a RaceTech seat and it has no brace.

I am going to do two things. Firstly install plate washers on the rear mounts as this is really cheap and easy to do - and will indeed increase strength of those mount points - not a bad thing. Secondly I am going to try to connect with the CRB and ask for clarification on this issue.

Incidentally I agree with you about the great job the safety crew did. I am sorry to hear that the driver of the Corvette was injured, I saw the very hard hit and was relieved to see him climb out under his own power. I was also told by Travis that his renter was OK, but the car was totalled. It was encouraging to see the basic strength of the cage given how hard he hit the concrete barrier.

Craig J

ODTVI
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Craig,
I understand where you're coming from. I am questioning the inspector's opinion on stock seat mounts. Can you use stock seat mounts in a SSB?
Damn, I might have to read that GCR thing again.
In my case, if I removed the stock mounts, I would have to reconstruct similar structure to achieve my seat location. Would I have to provide a stress analysis to prove its strength?
Starting to sound like what I do all day at work. HMMM! May be time to take up golf...Nah! too stressful.

--------------------
Ren Tucker
(aka Renny Bobby)

KelleyHux
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fyi - Mike McGinley, the Corvette driver who wrecked in testing on Friday was able to race his CSR on Sunday. He had only a cracked xiphoid (sp?) bone. That's the bone at the bottom of the sternum, and the injury was probably caused by the stretch in the belts when he hit.

Kelley Huxtable
"PLAY SAFE"
DMVR

JimEli Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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A quick comparison of the regulations regarding seat mounting:

GCR (9.3.40. SEATS):
The driverís seat shall be a one-piece bucket-type seat and shall be securely mounted.

TOURING:
The driverís seat (only) shall be replaced with a one-piece bucket-type race seat.

SHOWROOM STOCK/IMPROVED TOURING/AMERICAN SEDAN:
The driverís seat (only) shall be replaced with a one-piece bucket-type race seat. Factory seat tracks/brackets may be modified, reinforced, and/or removed to facilitate replacement mountings provided they perform no other function.

PRODUCTION:
Seat Location Ė The chassis shall not be modified to make additional clearance for the driverís seat. The driverís seat shall be located in the same lateral location as the OEM seat. The driverís seat shall be located longitudinally so that the seat back, at the driverís shoulders, does not break an imaginary vertical plane located at the front of the rear seat platform. On 2-seat vehicles the seat back may go back to the OEM rear bulkhead, package tray, etc. It is recommended that the floor be reinforced in the areas where the seat is mounted to the chassis. Vehicles with a non-metallic floor shall add tubing elements, with a minimum wall thickness of .090Ē, connecting metallic parts of the chassis, or within the cage structure, to mount the seat to.

GRAND TOURING:
All standard production seats and seat backs shall be removed. The driverís seat shall be replaced with a one-piece bucket-type race seat. Such seat shall be installed so that a second seat of the same dimensions could be simultaneously fitted to the passengerís side of the car (no center seating).

SPEC MIATA:
The driverís seat shall be replaced with a one-piece bucket-type race seat. All seat mountings shall be reinforced. Factory seat tracks/brackets may be modified, reinforced, and/or removed to facilitate replacement mountings provided they perform no other function.

Interesting to note:
1. Production does not allow chassis modification for seat clearance.
2. SM adds the words, ďAll seat mountings shall be reinforced.Ē

--------------------
UPR.com
Team LemonLappers

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

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Jim... nice summary.

It's important to consider that the seat is an important element of the restraint system, especially in side impacts. So, it's valid to say we want the seat to be securely mounted.

I think we'd all agree that the thin sheet metal floor of the Miata is not secure. It's reasonable for us to require any mountings that rely on that part of the sheet metal to be backed by large, load distributing plates or large washers.

I think we'd all also agree that the factory mounts are reinforced. They are from a heavier gauge metal than the floor pan, they are formed in three dimensions to add stiffness and they are well welded to the floor and chassis structures. The fasteners are high-grade weld nuts with a generous built in washer. The strength of the factory mounts is very likely to be much greater than the material of either aluminum or composite racing seats.

I think this is how we should answer tech officials who question the seat mounts. I also think we should improve the clarity of the rules to help the volunteers in tech do their jobs well. They are here to keep us safe and that's all they are trying to do in interpreting the rules. We need to make sure the rules help them.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

   

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