Spec Miata Community   
search | help | calendar | games | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hello Spec Miata Community » Sports Car Club of America » SCCA Mid-West » Runoffs horror story

 - Email this page to someone! | Subscribe To Topic  
Author Topic: Runoffs horror story
wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: kc
Car #: 20
Year : 92
Posts: 1801
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for wheel     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I want to tell you about the post race impound in ASedan.
The ASedan race was at 1:30 on Friday. In post race impound, five of the top six were found to be non-compliant by the tech crew. Since valve lift was one issue, they allowed the engines to cool over night to remeasure on Saturday. In addition, there was an initial delay, since the new spec heads are aluminum and the magnetic base for the dial indicator would not work. The tech crew, with something like 50 years of combined experience, including seat time in ASedans, going back to the start of the class, measured the valve lift several times, arriving at the same lift.
The 5th place car was announced as the winner. He was awarded the checker and had his picture taken. His engine had been disassembled down to weighing the crank and found to be legal. By consequence, I was told that I had moved from 9th to 4th.
I left the track to head home on Saturday night and the cars, at some point, were released. Meanwhile one of the DQ'd drivers had appealed the action of the tech stewards. Sometime Sunday members of the court of appeals, with the driver, measured valve lift again, without the tech crew present. The coa then overruled all of the DQ's, except for the winner. His non-compliance was the same as a couple of the other cars. So, everyone, except the (on track) winner, was reinstated and the (tech shed) winner was moved to 4th place. I think they took back the checkered flag, too. This all took place sometime Sunday, about 48 hours after the race.
Needless to say, the ASedan site has been busy.

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Mediocrity rules!

Region: SouthEast
Car #: 28
Year : 95
Posts: 3756
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Jason Holland   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

woah...

--------------------
Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

T.J. Kearney Verified Driver
Male Member

Region: Finger Lakes
Car #: 85
Year : 1992
Posts: 755
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for T.J. Kearney     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

There's a T1 cry-fest on SCCAForums as well....fun for everyone!

--------------------
Tom Kearney
SSM #85
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
MegaModerator

Region: mid south
Car #: 2
Year : 1999
Posts: 4275
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Drago   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Hey don't forget 07 where I totaled my car in 1-2 complex in practice only for them later to add foam blocks where I hit and a year later move the wall back... [duck]
That followed by Charlie or Unsafe pushing me out of my motorhome ;)in the dark with no step extended and dam near breaking my leg and throwing my lap top 20 yards. Couldn't walk for a week... flew home, came back for the race and fell in a hole and further injured the same ankle.. Did I tell you I hate Topeka?
Jim [Wink]

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

CarbotechDanny Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: NeOhio
Car #: 26, 27 or 29
Year : 2001
Posts: 720
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for CarbotechDanny   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

That whole A-Sedan tech shed thing is a BIG mess. I talked to a few tech people at the Runoffs and they are pissed. The SCCA is losing really good tech people because everything these tech people find keeps getting over turned by the COA.

Not to open up a can of worms here, but the COA needs to be actual tech people who understand what they are looking at and talking about. This has been a problem for years.

A tech official I was talking to said, "why do I bother coming out here every year to check to see if parts are compliant or non-compliant, and when I find things that are non-compliant it gets over turned by people who don't know an engine from a transmission??" It's hard to argue with that...

BTW, before this blows up I want to say that this has nothing to do with SM.

--------------------
Danny Puskar (push-car)
Carbotech Performance Brakes
4031 Dearborn Place N.W.
Concord, NC 28027
877-899-5024
danny@ctbrakes.com
http://www.ctbrakes.com

Puskar Motorsports
Spec Miata specialists
Chesterland, OH
216-406-8140

taylorf Verified Driver
Member

Region: Houston
Car #: 51
Year : 1994
Posts: 411
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for taylorf     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

On a side note, Andy D. had a saweet burnout post race!

--------------------
Taylor Ferranti

wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: kc
Car #: 20
Year : 92
Posts: 1801
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for wheel     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I agree, this does not have anything to do with SM, other than as a cautionary tale.
One of the members of the coa (I use lower case on purpose) reportedly picked up an intake manifold and asked, "Now this is a cylinder head, right?" And this from someone who helped overrule the work of highly experienced, and well trained, tech workers. Personally, I didn't agree with all of the items they thought were illegal, but the process was so polluted, there was no way to see who got a fair shake and who got hosed.

I believe the entire tech crew resigned in protest. I just hope they don't turn in their licenses and stop volunteering to do tech on a divisional level.

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

Region: Houston
Car #: 91
Year : 1991
Posts: 2171
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Kent Carter   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

argh

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

guest driver
Member

Region: 011
Car #: 47
Year : 94
Posts: 488
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for guest driver     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
argh

racer vs SCCA tech vs COA politics at the RunOffs has always been that way, nothing new, most classes prep to that gray area of interpretation ....
even SM, but to a much lesser degree due to the one make class, tighter rule set and much higher level of rules clarification ... also doesn't hurt to have Ty & Mike in SM Tech as the Judge & prosecuters so as to limit the lobbying/lawyering/BS ing to the COA.
i can just hear Mike C saying Ned Beatty's quote from the movie 'The Shooter' : " the TRUTH is ... what I SAY it is "
[Smile]

[ 10-03-2009, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: guest driver ]

Bob Thornton - Race Engineering Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber. - Sir Winston Churchill

Region: Central Carolina
Car #: 48
Year : 1999
Posts: 1327
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Bob Thornton - Race Engineering   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Like Danny said a "big mess", I know first hand as I was one of the tech team.
I will have to think long and hard before I work tech again. [Frown]

--------------------
Bob Thornton
http://www.raceengineering.org
Race Engineering Championship Winning Engines

Tom Scheifler Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
Veteran Member

Region: MIDIV-STL
Car #: 28
Year : 1990
Posts: 592
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Tom Scheifler   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by CarbotechDanny:

A tech official I was talking to said, "why do I bother coming out here every year to check to see if parts are compliant or non-compliant, and when I find things that are non-compliant it gets over turned by people who don't know an engine from a transmission??" It's hard to argue with that...

BTW, before this blows up I want to say that this has nothing to do with SM.

Sounds like SM was basically the same story as A-sedan except that in SM the cars were not DQ'd in tech...

quote:
Originally posted by Mike C (about SM tech):
If I ruled the world and was the benevolent dictator of tech some of the "questionable" or "suspect" parts would have never made it out of the shed.

I think the top guys bought tech shed legal packages and they passed. Right or wrong it was to the letter (not intent) of the rules.


--------------------
http://www.plainoldgas.com

suck fumes Verified Driver
Veteran Member

Region: Lonestar
Car #: 75
Year : 3rd in the nation
Posts: 522
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for suck fumes     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

NASA sure is looking shiny right about now.

--------------------
THAT JUST HAPPENED!!! -RickyBobby-

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

Region: Houston
Car #: 91
Year : 1991
Posts: 2171
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Kent Carter   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by suck fumes:
NASA sure is looking shiny right about now.

Not really. NASA's inability to tech even simple things creates a part of this culture of cheating that exists in SM.

The fact that SCCA has a disease among its stewards that impairs their ability to provide meaningful stewardship doesn't make NASA inaction look any better to me.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Blake Clements Verified Driver Series Champ
MegaModerator

Region: SW - Houston
Car #: 6
Year : 99, 96
Posts: 2262
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Blake Clements   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Does anyone remember the 08 Runoffs? [Wink]

--------------------
Blake Clements

PhillipsRacePrep/SP Induction Systems/East Street Racing/MiataCage.com/Carbotech/WBR Graphics

www.blakeclements.com

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Mediocrity rules!

Region: SouthEast
Car #: 28
Year : 95
Posts: 3756
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Jason Holland   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
quote:
Originally posted by suck fumes:
NASA sure is looking shiny right about now.

Not really. NASA's inability to tech even simple things creates a part of this culture of cheating that exists in SM.

The fact that SCCA has a disease among its stewards that impairs their ability to provide meaningful stewardship doesn't make NASA inaction look any better to me.

Kent, I don't understand why you and Willie have such a hardon for NASA lately. In any case, what do you consider simple? Here's the list of what we checked at the NATS...

compression with whistler, ecu swap and manual checks, afms, rp's, suspension pickup points, timing cheats, dyno, fuel, and throttle bodies, weight, data, fuel pressure regulators, other af cheats, and used a radar gun. 

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment above as obviously unbiased as it is. Was it everything I wanted checked? Nope, but based on the resources and time we had I'm pretty certain that the cars were on a level playing field. We just didn't have to tear them to the ground like we did two years ago to prove it(was that that a simple enough check?). So according to you NASA is the reason we have more contact and the reason people are cheating. Check. Got it. [Wink]

--------------------
Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

kingturbo
Junior Member

Region: MidDiv
Posts: 7
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for kingturbo     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Blake Clements:
Does anyone remember the 08 Runoffs? [Wink]

yeah I do, a 99 turned the fastest racing lap.

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

Region: Houston
Car #: 91
Year : 1991
Posts: 2171
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Kent Carter   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Jason, You are right. I wasn't there, I just heard from some that it was really light. The best tech is that which catches all the cheaters without anyone feeling like they got 'teched to death'. Maybe you got it just right. [Smile]

And as long as Scenario 12 is in the CCR, NASA will wear the 'contact is GOOOOOD!' zombie merit badge.

There are a lot of really amazingly good things about NASA, these are just two weaknesses. One is a business model decision, perhaps the other is too. Big wrecks sell tickets for NASCAR, why not NASA? No big deal.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

EBudman Verified Driver
Idle Member

Region: Detroit
Car #: #71
Year : 1990
Posts: 656
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for EBudman     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Interesting, the scary part is that the appeal was won. I believe the first year that AS was at the Runoffs, the race was on Sunday. The top 6 were all DQ'd and the 7th place guy who built his own engines & didn't have to go to impound was declared the winner. Sounds like things might have been different if the race had been on Friday.... [Eek!]

As far as NASA looking shiny right now... not so much either. Racing for points, contingencies, a championship title and/or perceived fame brings out the worst in everyone, regardless of sanctioning body. I had a blast at the '06 NASA Championships, but with the influx of talent, money & stupid rules, the fun factor quickly vanished, just like the Runoffs.

Eric

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Mediocrity rules!

Region: SouthEast
Car #: 28
Year : 95
Posts: 3756
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Jason Holland   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by EBudman:
Interesting, the scary part is that the appeal was won. I believe the first year that AS was at the Runoffs, the race was on Sunday. The top 6 were all DQ'd and the 7th place guy who built his own engines & didn't have to go to impound was declared the winner. Sounds like things might have been different if the race had been on Friday.... [Eek!]

As far as NASA looking shiny right now... not so much either. Racing for points, contingencies, a championship title and/or perceived fame brings out the worst in everyone, regardless of sanctioning body. I had a blast at the '06 NASA Championships, but with the influx of talent, money & stupid rules, the fun factor quickly vanished, just like the Runoffs.

Eric

Eric,

I tend to agree (except for the stupid rules part) [Smile] that the money etc didn't help things the last two years but I think this year's event was more in line with what you experienced in 06. At least I hope it was.

I think most reasonable people would admit that both organizations have alot to learn (maybe from each other) and alot of things they could improve upon.


Jason

--------------------
Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

EBudman Verified Driver
Idle Member

Region: Detroit
Car #: #71
Year : 1990
Posts: 656
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for EBudman     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Jason,

The stupid rules weren't aimed at you or anything SM specific... There were a couple of general CCR rule changes in '07 that I detest to this day & seperate NASA from the SCCA.... [Wink]

Eric

   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic | Subscribe To Topic
Hop To: