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Author Topic: R888 could they suck any more?
Willie the Tard Verified Driver
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double your tire budget!!! three heat cycles and they are toast! three to five laps per session before they turn to pieces of crap

Only winners TOYO!!!

[ 03-09-2009, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: Drago ]

--------------------
William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

Mike Bell Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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They suxors bigtime, except when brand new and then they roxors, but quickly turn to suxors.

Bottom line: I can't afford racing on these 888s.

--------------------
Mike Bell
http://www.bns-racing.com/sm.jpg

skrzastek
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that is really sad news for those of us on a tight budget [banghead]

--------------------
#91 SSM

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I'm not convinced yet but the anecdotal evidence is troubling. I'll be running a new set race after next so I'll have an opinion then.

I've not heard much about them going off early, only an accelerated wear rate compared to ra1. And even that has seemed inconsistant.

Jason

--------------------
Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

Casey Z Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Will,

What tread depth did you start at? I have heard pretty much the same thing you are describing.

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----------------
Z Brothers Racing / East Street Auto

Casey Z - 1.6 Kettle
MidDiv National #13

Steven Holloway Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Blue Eyes, Aquarius, hates being squeezed to the grass in SowDiv!

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Gee. they were great @ MSRHouston in January....unfortunately for my tire budget, I live in Central Texas where it's hot a WHOLE lot more than it's cold.
Underwhelmed to be sure!

--------------------
If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's got electrical problems.

Glenn Verified Driver
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Hot this weekend at Savannah and a whole NEW set of handling issues arose! Chassis tuning is gonna be FUN!

--------------------
Glenn
Crew chief Meathead Racing, NE Region Sales Division Race Engineering, The GOLD standard in SM engines, Occasional race slave for OPM Autosports

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Mediocrity rules!

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Details?

--------------------
Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

soupy
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[Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

--------------------
Charlie Campbell
Race Engineering
carbotech brakes

G. Davis Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Has anybody ran them new vs. shaved? What was the result?

--------------------
--------------------

Glenn Davis

Jonathan Christian Verified Driver
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after a race weekend the tire falls of about 1.5 seconds compared to a new 4/32 shaved set, the problem is they get VERY greasy, so if you plan on running them for several races prepare for a very loose car.

Steven Holloway Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Blue Eyes, Aquarius, hates being squeezed to the grass in SowDiv!

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Wicked Loose!!

--------------------
If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's got electrical problems.

Casey Z Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Christian:
after a race weekend the tire falls of about 1.5 seconds compared to a new 4/32 shaved set, the problem is they get VERY greasy, so if you plan on running them for several races prepare for a very loose car.

Having not run them yet I can only go off the comments of others that have and I trust their judgment. A tire that falls of 1.5 seconds is unusable for racing. Lapping or HPDE maybe, but competitive racing? No way in hell.

Given the state of the economy and where things are for a lot of us I would like to know if the SCCA and or NASA is okay with the fact that a bunch of us will probably have to skip this year since we can't afford a $650 tire bill every weekend? It was hard enough being competitive on tires that would last two weekends.

If SM is supposed to be an entry level class, the R888 may very well kill it if early reports are accurate. I for one am considering letting my SCCA National license expire and just race COMMA this year on RA1's and Hoosiers.

Would love to hear comments from the SMAC and or CRB guys. I know most of you have run them and I have heard some of your opinions and they weren't good.

Let's not let a tire deal do in a class. Just my humble opinion... [twocents]

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----------------
Z Brothers Racing / East Street Auto

Casey Z - 1.6 Kettle
MidDiv National #13

Andy Rushing Verified Driver Series Champ
2009 NASA SM National Champion

Region: Lone Star
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Year : '91
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All the comments above are basically true in my mind...

I can say that pretty much everyone in the top ten (and maybe deeper) this weekend at the TWS double national went through about TWO sets of tires!! (I probably only have 2 heat cycles total left on my two 3/32 sets...) Most folks were shaving them to 3/32 too. If you're on a '99, forget about it... I think I heard Saini got only 2 heat cycles out of a set of 2/32's...

These tires don't last long (tread wears QUICK)and they don't seem to hold up over an individual session. A lot of this may have to do with the size of the tire (~1/4 inch wider than an RA1)--they appear too wide for a 7" rim. They are horrible in my mind. I don't think anyone after the TWS double would disagree.

I agree that if we stay with R888's for 3 years, SM could be a whole lot smaller. There's going to be a lot more upset people as more divisions start racing on them hard...

--------------------
Andy Rushing

Monkeywrench
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quote:
A tire that falls of 1.5 seconds is unusable for racing.
Isn't this exactly the reason why the Spec Racer Ford guys abandoned the Yokohama?

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-Bob Adams

mtm68 Verified Driver
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tires are free in ITA/ITS.... just sayin...

Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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Would like to disagree with several of the posts above.

In Saturday's 1-1/2 hour ECR, I ran my fastest lap on the last lap (lap 35) with no draft. Was able to get close to my fastest lap time, if not fastest lap time at the end of each race - in the SARRC on lap 6 and lap 9, and once again at the end of ECR 2.

Take the time to learn about this tire. It's different for sure. Jason Owenby was really struggling with it as it was his first weekend on it, but for us at OPM it was our 5th. Makes a big difference.

It exhibits VERY different handling characteristics at different tire pressures, and this allows more handling tuning than I was able to feel with the RA-1's.

But I will agree on the wear. It does seem to cord a bit faster. I dont count heat cycles, since some are long and some are really short. I count total time driven at speed and I am seeing around 3 hours of use out of a set, depending on the track.

A second issue that we have experienced is out-of-round tires. I have had two. Came shaved o-o-r. Creates the worst drive train vibration you can imagine. In car video is unwatchable. Not sure if its getting shaved badly or if its a carcass issue.

I actually like the tire. Its just different. If it does cost more in the long run, that will be a big negative, but it's too early for me to say for sure.

--------------------
Danny
http://www.dannysteyn.com
http://www.adeptstudios.com
OPM Autosports | Traqmate | Rossini Racing Engines
2010 June Sprints Champ, 2010 ARRC SMX Champ
2009 SARRC Champ, 2009 SEDiv ECR Champ, 2009 FES Champ
2008 SEDiv ECR Champ

IPRESS Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Purples were /are the way to go. You guys got hung by hanging chads in the tire deal.
[flamed]

--------------------
Mac Spikes
IPRESS Racing
MER
East Street Auto
SAFERACER
Hoosier
Carbotech
MotorSport Ranch
Cresson, Texas
"To hell with you Gen. Sheridan...I 'll take Texas!"

LOREN WALLACE IS MY HERO!

Blake Clements Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by IPRESS:
Purples were /are the way to go. You guys got hung by hanging chads in the tire deal.
[flamed]

And open tire was more expensive..... [Confused]

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Blake Clements

PhillipsRacePrep/SP Induction Systems/East Street Racing/MiataCage.com/Carbotech/WBR Graphics

www.blakeclements.com

trimless1 Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I don't mind that these tires are different than the RA-1. I welcome change, BUT I can't afford two sets of tires each weekend to be competitive, sorry Joe! Same issue as all the others have mentioned. Tires are great on the 1st heat cycle! But the tires wear fast and after 2 sessions on the track they start to fall off the pace quickly.

The winners in this deal are the guys/gals that have budget to pay for the additional expense these tires bring and of course TOYO made out pretty well too!

--------------------
Gale Corley
99 SM GRE Super Deluxe
93 SM GRE Jr. Deluxe

taylorf Verified Driver
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888's = crap. Is there anything we can do?

Thanks SCCA! Looks like the tire test was a complete waste of money....well at least for members.

--------------------
Taylor Ferranti

mullet


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But what about that great trackside support!

Blake Clements Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by mullet:
But what about that great trackside support!

[rolling on floor laughin] [rolling on floor laughin]

--------------------
Blake Clements

PhillipsRacePrep/SP Induction Systems/East Street Racing/MiataCage.com/Carbotech/WBR Graphics

www.blakeclements.com

wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Every bad experience with these tires should be reported to the CRB and the BOD. I bought a set ($632) but haven't run them yet. If they perform as poorly as what is being reported, I will raise hell with the CRB and the BOD.
wheel

oem steve
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I for one got screwed this weekend at VIR because of this tire issue. I showed up at the track looking to get some r888s only to find out that they didnt have any left. I signed the waiver to compete in the 2 ECR's, Then got lucky and got a set that somebody cancelled on. Went back and pulled my waiver sheet but when the results came out they had me down as waiving the points. Bought the tires ran the race = 0 points for 2 ECR's. I think I'll stick to the Carolina Cup races.

--------------------
email: standrewsexpress@bellsouth.net
visit us at http://www.standrewsexpress.com

Under powered and under driven

taylorf Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by wheel:
Every bad experience with these tires should be reported to the CRB and the BOD. I bought a set ($632) but haven't run them yet. If they perform as poorly as what is being reported, I will raise hell with the CRB and the BOD.
wheel

Where/how do I do this? Should we all get together and do one?

--------------------
Taylor Ferranti

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I thought that the purpose of the SMAC was to communicate what the class as a whole wants from the CRB. What is the SMAC doing about the tire wear issue?

--------------------
Paul McLester

Mike C Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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The SMAC is doing nothing about tire wear issues yet other than discussing it. If you want change write letters to the Bod and CRB and then we can act. specmiata.com is a GREAT forum and resource but it is not an "official" way to notify the BoD or CRB about an issue you would like addressed.

Thank you for your input.

--------------------
Mike Collins
MEATHEAD Racing
http://www.SHEETZ.com
The MEATHEAD Racing 2010 Calendar is up!!!!
www.MEATHEADRacing.com
SMAC Member
WDCR-SCCA SM Drivers Rep.
ALL OPINIONS ON RULES OR SPECIFICATIONS ARE JUST THAT, MY OPINIONS!

Alex Gaines Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny Steyn:
Would like to disagree with several of the posts above.

In Saturday's 1-1/2 hour ECR, I ran my fastest lap on the last lap (lap 35) with no draft. Was able to get close to my fastest lap time, if not fastest lap time at the end of each race - in the SARRC on lap 6 and lap 9, and once again at the end of ECR 2.

Take the time to learn about this tire. It's different for sure. Jason Owenby was really struggling with it as it was his first weekend on it, but for us at OPM it was our 5th. Makes a big difference.

It exhibits VERY different handling characteristics at different tire pressures, and this allows more handling tuning than I was able to feel with the RA-1's.

But I will agree on the wear. It does seem to cord a bit faster. I dont count heat cycles, since some are long and some are really short. I count total time driven at speed and I am seeing around 3 hours of use out of a set, depending on the track.

A second issue that we have experienced is out-of-round tires. I have had two. Came shaved o-o-r. Creates the worst drive train vibration you can imagine. In car video is unwatchable. Not sure if its getting shaved badly or if its a carcass issue.

I actually like the tire. Its just different. If it does cost more in the long run, that will be a big negative, but it's too early for me to say for sure.

I think I have to agree with Danny. I ran 2 20 min qual sessions,a 1.5 hour ecr, and then a SAARC sunday. The fastest times of my weekend were in the SAARC around lap 6 which was the last race of the weekend. I played with pressures all weekend and had them where I wanted for the SARRC. They seem to be very pressure sensitive to me. It was my 4th weekend on the tire. Alex Gaines

--------------------
2010 SARRC Champion
2010 13 Hours of VIR Champions
Race Engineering

wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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The only way to get something done (and, trust me, it doesn't always work, or even most of the time) is for everyone who has a problem with the tire to send an individual email to crb@scca.com and to your BOD member. Go here http://www.scca.org/contentpage.aspx?content=89
to see a list. Click on your BOD member and you can send a direct email.
Make it short and only talk about one issue at a time. Don't write about your tire issues and then go off on some other topic.

The CRB will put it on a meeting agenda and will forward your letters to the SMAC, who will put it on their agenda. You can tell your SMAC reps how you feel on this site.
wheel

Glenn Verified Driver
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quote:
Details?
Flipped a set with 8 cycles but plenty of life left in them. Sent the car out that had handled GOOD all weekend with a PRO driver. After the flip the car had a horrible push, ruined a qualifier.

Previous experiences at moderate temps tire went LOOSE during the race. During the Sunday AM race, tires 3 cycles, MAYBEE 10 laps before race, care was TIGHT during the race!!! Temps at race time were probably low 70's.

Bottom line we are still trying to figure out the tires/ wear/ handling issues.

--------------------
Glenn
Crew chief Meathead Racing, NE Region Sales Division Race Engineering, The GOLD standard in SM engines, Occasional race slave for OPM Autosports

Mike Bell Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Emailed the BOD, thanks for the link.

--------------------
Mike Bell
http://www.bns-racing.com/sm.jpg

Willie the Tard Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Casey Z:
Will,

What tread depth did you start at? I have heard pretty much the same thing you are describing.

We have tried both 4/32 and 3/32

--------------------
William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

Willie the Tard Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Holloway:
Gee. they were great @ MSRHouston in January....unfortunately for my tire budget, I live in Central Texas where it's hot a WHOLE lot more than it's cold.
Underwhelmed to be sure!

I found that at MSRH the did not off as fast but still have very bad wear and were gone after less than 5 cycles.

in summary not great at MSRH (where the test was not) total crap at TWS

--------------------
William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

Willie the Tard Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Casey Z:


Given the state of the economy and where things are for a lot of us I would like to know if the SCCA and or NASA is okay with the fact that a bunch of us will probably have to skip this year since we can't afford a $650 tire bill every weekend?

I think it is a 3 year deal -- so we will need to skip 3 years [Frown]

--------------------
William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

Willie the Tard Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by mtm68:
tires are free in ITA/ITS.... just sayin...

some people like national classes and the runoffs -- but you are right and that might be the best idea -- no tech fee and open tires

--------------------
William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

JMorris
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny Steyn:
Would like to disagree with several of the posts above.

In Saturday's 1-1/2 hour ECR, I ran my fastest lap on the last lap (lap 35) with no draft. Was able to get close to my fastest lap time, if not fastest lap time at the end of each race - in the SARRC on lap 6 and lap 9, and once again at the end of ECR 2.

Take the time to learn about this tire. It's different for sure. Jason Owenby was really struggling with it as it was his first weekend on it, but for us at OPM it was our 5th. Makes a big difference.

It exhibits VERY different handling characteristics at different tire pressures, and this allows more handling tuning than I was able to feel with the RA-1's.

But I will agree on the wear. It does seem to cord a bit faster. I dont count heat cycles, since some are long and some are really short. I count total time driven at speed and I am seeing around 3 hours of use out of a set, depending on the track.

A second issue that we have experienced is out-of-round tires. I have had two. Came shaved o-o-r. Creates the worst drive train vibration you can imagine. In car video is unwatchable. Not sure if its getting shaved badly or if its a carcass issue.

I actually like the tire. Its just different. If it does cost more in the long run, that will be a big negative, but it's too early for me to say for sure.

Danny
Respectfully. I don't think you disagreed with much of what many are posting?

As far as speed, don't think many are saying the tire can't be as fast. Your particular fast lap means little, one should expect to run faster with 60-70 lbs less fuel at the end of an 1 1/2 enduro??? Also, speed on a spec tire really isn't a concern as all are on the same tire.

The problem is wear and cost, while this may not be an issue for you personally, it is a major concern for the "class" as a whole. The class will not survive $1400 a weekend tire bills, even at the National level. The class needs a tire that will run at least 2 weekends, perhaps even three at some level(practice the third weekend). In the current economic state, we will certainly lose entries because of the tire, that is simply not a good thing.
Whether people get "used to" the tires or not, will not change the wear rate. The rate of the tire wear will equal the rate we lose drivers in SM.
To all who want the SMAC or CRB to do something, you need to send a letter to CRB@SCCA.com, bitching here will do nothing. Mine has already been sent.

   

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