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Author Topic: What was the DQ for at Cal Speedway?
POWERSS Verified Driver
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What did Hoover get DQ for last weekend?

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2009 SOPAC Division Champion

Jonathan Christian Verified Driver
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From mylaps
09:59 #98 DQ'D for failing Compression

SWDouglass Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Does the DQ only effect that race or is there a 6 month penalty that follows?

Jonathan,
Nice run in the regional!!!!

Grant also! masterful driving through traffic to get to the front pack.

Couldn't stick around to walk through paddock. A 2 year olds attention span is only 5 minutes less than his fathers.

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31st in the nation. If I could keep the car on the track and put on the oil cap I could be in the top 20.

GW
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Thanks Sean. starting DFL in the regional race was fun.

Regarding the National race a huge congratulations to Jonathan for the well deserved win after Hoover's DQ. He drove a great race. Egg on my face for running behind Jonathan and running out of fuel with 2 laps to go. I never was good at math or comprehending that it is a 40 min race, not 30 min.

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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Nice run guys... Sean sent me a txt said it was a hoot to watch.

MY LAPS RESULTS:
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1037655

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Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Ara Verified Driver Series Champ
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1) was there consequences beyond the DQ?
2) was the engine (or part) confiscated?

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Jonathan Christian Verified Driver
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1) were not sure to be honest, i believe in the gcr it states that a probation period is given to a driver if they are found to be cheating. Whether or not that happened in this case we dont know. Hoover left the pits and the chief Stewart was walking around with paperwork looking for him.

2) No, the car was whistled and found illegal, hoover accepted a dq and drove away.

Tvance13
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We only run NASA, but I wondered how the SCCA handles this type of thing. Does this get reported out in the fast track release? How does anyone know (beyond the DQ at the track) what the consequences were and if the same consequences will apply moving forward?

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SWDouglass Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I would assume that it is a SCCA probation. Will that follow him to San Fran Region? Or can you serve probation in one region and yet be clear in another?

Wasn't drennan also DQed in the runoffs? If so, How could he run this past weekend if he was DQed at runoffs?

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31st in the nation. If I could keep the car on the track and put on the oil cap I could be in the top 20.

Mike C Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Rules Explanation.

It depends how you were found "non-compliant".

Typically the Tech Chief submits a list to the Chief Steward of what they would like to tech. If the Chief approves the list, tech goes about checking items. If tech finds something "non-compliant" (even being under weight) the CS accesses a penalty. Typically the penalty is one lap or DQ, sometimes more.

The whistler is not the absolute measure of CR. That can only be determined by CC'ing the engine. The CS can DQ you for failing the whistler but you can appeal and have the engine CC'd. Sometimes you don't even have to appeal, sometimes the CS may let you (at your own expense) remove your head to be CC'd if you were over but are confident it is legal.

I was not there and do not know the details, but if the involved party was allowed to leave tech it was over. There does not have to be a probation or suspension.

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Mike Collins
MEATHEAD Racing
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ALL OPINIONS ON RULES OR SPECIFICATIONS ARE JUST THAT, MY OPINIONS!

SWDouglass Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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My apologies to Mark Drennan. I have confused Mark Drennan with Marc Hoover. Getting the last name correct is really important, so again I want to apologise to Drennan for my error.

The way I 'm going i'll never be chief steward. (not to meantion that I don't know a thing about the cars, or rules or people's names)

Oh well, back to being a funeral director where they don't listen to me anyways.

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31st in the nation. If I could keep the car on the track and put on the oil cap I could be in the top 20.

GW
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Thanks for the explanation Mike.
Interesting...if this happened to me and I was confident I was legal I would do whatever it took to get the engine CC'd rather than go through the shame of the forums and loss of respect from my fellow racers. (wither I had a 10 hr tow or not) After all that is why we race, for the respect. It always puzzles me how someone gets personal satisfaction from finishing well but knowing they did it by cheating. And is most cases most of their fellow racers know it too.

Ara Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike C:
Rules Explanation.

It depends how you were found "non-compliant".

Typically the Tech Chief submits a list to the Chief Steward of what they would like to tech. If the Chief approves the list, tech goes about checking items. If tech finds something "non-compliant" (even being under weight) the CS accesses a penalty. Typically the penalty is one lap or DQ, sometimes more.

The whistler is not the absolute measure of CR. That can only be determined by CC'ing the engine. The CS can DQ you for failing the whistler but you can appeal and have the engine CC'd. Sometimes you don't even have to appeal, sometimes the CS may let you (at your own expense) remove your head to be CC'd if you were over but are confident it is legal.

I was not there and do not know the details, but if the involved party was allowed to leave tech it was over. There does not have to be a probation or suspension.

Seriously? You get to keep the offending parts? Makes no sense...

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www.alararacing.com

Gibscreen Verified Driver Series Champ
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What's illegal in SM is legal in some other class.

I'm glad they don't confiscate. I don't want to replace my depowered steering rack in ITA if I ever get a weenie protest. [Smile]

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Rob Gibson
RJ Racing
2010 NASA Nationals TTE Champion
2008/2009 WERC Champion
2007 NASA SoCal SM Champion
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Gibscreen Verified Driver Series Champ
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Edit: accidental duplicate post.

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Rob Gibson
RJ Racing
2010 NASA Nationals TTE Champion
2008/2009 WERC Champion
2007 NASA SoCal SM Champion
rjracing.net
Weekend-Racer.com

Ara Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Gibscreen:
What's illegal in SM is legal in some other class.

I'm glad they don't confiscate. I don't want to replace my depowered steering rack in ITA if I ever get a weenie protest. [Smile]

That makes no sense at all. You could have a cheater computer, cams, shocks, subframes, ported heads, etc etc and say they are your EP parts and get a pass???

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Eau Rouge
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No you still get dq'd. It is possible to make a non-compliant part compliant.

Morris Hamm Made Donation to Website
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If non-compliant parts are found, they are not to be returned to the competitor. Even compliant parts are not supposed to be returned until after the time to appeal has passed. Not sure why Mark left with the motor except that not all of the motor was non-compliant and identifying the compliant parts would have meant a tear down.

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Morris Hamm

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hi Morris,i was with Mark, racing there ,and everyone ,including Mark was told we all could leave,from the inpound.

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kim willcox

WChristian 2
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Actually, the rest of the top cars stayed long after the rest of the field was cleared from tech. Mark was DQ'd, talked to Barb Knox I believe for a few minutes and then simply drove off. Dunno if he was cleared or not, but certainly no one from tech seemed to care.

TillerTech
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Where is the policy of non-compliant parts not to be returned to the competitor? SCCA? NASA?

This is not a good policy.

John

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Cajun Miata Man Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by TillerTech:
Where is the policy of non-compliant parts not to be returned to the competitor? SCCA? NASA?

This is not a good policy.

John

I believe it's written in the GCR under protest section somewhere for the SCCA. If you show up with a cheater part, get protested for that part and it's discovered out of compliance, it is supposed to be confiscated and sent to Topeka. (or should be)

Note; it has to be a part not something like "engine" or "car".

--------------------
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TillerTech
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James,

it is not a written rule to confiscate parts, at least with SCCA GCR. They can be retained for inspection, but the part still belongs to the competitor. What is Topeka supposed to do with the part after inspection? My biggest question would be this, when SCCA takes the parts into custody, who determines the value of them? If my new brand X pro motor cyl head was lost in shipping to Topeka am I compensated more than $100?(shipping insurance)

In the case of the CR out of spec, it could be the head or the block, most likely both were cut. If either is used with another part both might be OK.

This is a very slippery slope that seems to be accepted blindly.

John

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Dave Gomberg
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GCR 8.3.3.F

F. Preservation of Evidence
Any recorded evidence such as technical data or inspectors’ reports or measurements shall be forwarded to the Club Office with the tear down bond (See 8.3.3.A.). The Chairman SOM (or Chief Steward, in the case of a Chief Steward’s action) shall accept any parts tendered by the owner for safekeeping pending appeal. The SOM (or Chief Steward, in the case of a Chief Steward’s action) shall have the authority to impound parts. All impounded parts will be uniquely and identifiably marked upon their removal from the car and will remain in the direct control of a licensed Scrutineer or Steward designated by the Chairman SOM or Chief Steward (depending upon the type of action in progress) until such time as they are returned to the competitor or are delivered to and under the direct control of a courier service providing shipment by insurable and traceable means to the National Office for inspection and either retention or subsequent return to the competitor.

TillerTech
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Dave,

Thank you, the parts are not confiscated, only retained for inspection.

This makes sense.

John

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Dave Gomberg
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quote:
Originally posted by TillerTech:
Dave,

Thank you, the parts are not confiscated, only retained for inspection.

This makes sense.

John

No, that isn't what it says. The parts are sent for inspection; then they are either retained or returned. Retained means they are not returned. Period.

And, before you object: when you register for a race you sign a statement in which you agree to abide by the provisions of the GCR. This is one of those provisions.

Dave

Cajun Miata Man Verified Driver
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Dave,

Correct. That is my read too. If they go to Topeka, and are confirmed non-compliant, you will not be getting them back.

If legal, they will be returned.

--------------------
James York


sponsored by:
Stan's Auto Center, Lafayette LA
powered by:
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set up guru:
Gilfus Racing, Austin TX

TillerTech
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It does not say that illegal parts will be retained. You assume so.

Now you know why the most important tool at the RunOffs is your attorneys phone number.

J

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Cajun Miata Man Verified Driver
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Here is a idea if you really are concerned, call Topeka and ask them if you can get a non-compliant part back. Maybe that will ease your mind.

--------------------
James York


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-Bob-
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<b>Now you know why the most important tool at the RunOffs is your attorneys phone number.</b>

Now that's what I call a protest

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I think you guys have stumbled on a vague provision. I agree with TillerTech - the provision doesn't say that the parts MUST be retained if found non-compliant. In fact, they don't say that they must be returned if they ARE compliant.

In other words, a provision so vague as to offer no accountability whatsoever. It should be rewritten to add that parts are returned if found compliant and that they may be retained under specific circumstances.

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