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Author Topic: PIR Double National Canceled
AllardK3 Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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This weekends double national at PIR was just canceled...... PIR apparently decided to do some last minute construction. It is a shame, as it looked like a great group had registered.

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Mike Donick

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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They should be strung up for that. I lost $100 to priceline thanks to them.

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It really makes my week when nobody crashes into me.

JimEli Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
They should be strung up for that. I lost $100 to priceline thanks to them.

I'm in AZ now, what'd you think I'm out?

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David de Regt Verified Driver
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Shit, Jim. You should raise holy goddamn hell over this one. That's just absurd of them to do this without warning. You're out thousands.

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CLee
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Can't believe they (I assume PIR,Az) waited till the last minute to tell us. I am sure more than just the two of you incurred a real monetery loss...!

There's a picture posted on CalClub website forum showing all the catch fencing was removed on the front straight. Not sure when that was taken, but seems like it was planned work...

JimEli Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Anybody know how to get in contact with Heitman? Not sure if he left Portland yet, or if this will change his plans.

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Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I saw Jim and PIR and thought...there's no Race in Portland this weekend. [Confused]

Trailering from PIR OR to PIR AZ and then not racing is just tragic!

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Keith Novak
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Kyle Freiheit
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How about trailering from the Washington/Canada border all the way to AZ and then they cancel. That's what happened to Jim Eli.

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by JimEli:
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
They should be strung up for that. I lost $100 to priceline thanks to them.

I'm in AZ now, what'd you think I'm out?
NOTHING IS OVER UNTIL WE DECIDE IT IS!

http://www.bratten.org/TrackDays/

Jan. 16 &17 Sat. & Sun. California Speedway Speed Ventures
Jan. 20 Wed. Willow Springs (big track) Open Track Racing
Jan 23-25 Cal Speedway SCCA
Jan. 23 & 24 Sat. & Sun. Willow Springs (big track) Alfa Romeo Owners, SoCal
Jan. 25 Mon. Sears Point (Infineon) Hooked On Driving
Jan. 30 & 31 Sat. & Sun. Buttonwillow (13 CW, 13 CW) Speed Ventures
Jan. 30 Sat. Thunderhill Hooked On Driving
Jan 30-31 24 hours of chumpcar at streets of willow. **I think I can get you a spot on my team.**

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nealspens Verified Driver
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Once again, NASCAR craps on the club racing community. While at least I didn't hit the road yet, I did buy two sets for tires for this race; had the car prepped, aligned and scaled; installed a GPS system; de-winterized the car (and now winterized it again); had my pit crew (physician father) reschedule his patients' surgeries at the hospital; staff my store and now have to pay unneeded salaries, etc. I actually contacted the track to discuss this debacle and conveniently, all three executives who can answer my questions are out of town. I actually enjoy racing at PIR and the Arizona region puts on a great show...I just now find it hard to support a race that will put any money in NASCAR's pocket.

Neal Frank
SM Red #32

Brian Linn Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyle Freiheit:
How about trailering from the Washington/Canada border all the way to AZ and then they cancel.

Jim Hargrove, a GTL racer from Vancouver, BC has his car/trailer on the way to Phoenix and $1500 of non-refundable plane tickets for his crew. He had intended on doing the Phoenix double, then Fontana the following weekend - get three races out of a trip that long. Not sure what he is doing now.

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Brian Linn
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CLee
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Maybe if CalClub, AZ region and SCCA national office is flexible enough, they can revise the Fontana schedule to make it a triple national instead of single.

I suspect most of the folks going to PIR, AZ are going to Auto Club Speedway as well since they are back to back weekends. Then all is not lost.

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by CLee:
Maybe if CalClub, AZ region and SCCA national office is flexible enough, they can revise the Fontana schedule to make it a triple national instead of single.

I suspect most of the folks going to PIR, AZ are going to Auto Club Speedway as well since they are back to back weekends. Then all is not lost.

Shame they couldn't move it to that turd of a track Firebird. Something is better than nothing.

Triple nationalling ACS would torpedo anyone without a national license, but those are probably a minority and aren't coming from too far away. Temporary national license waivers would be cool, but I am not sure if they can/will do that.

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wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I have done that race several times. 1215 miles, one way, from K.C. Portland to Phoenix is even worse, 1335 miles. I think I would have to resort to violence, if I had made the trip, only to find the races cancelled at the last minute.

JimEli Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Try 1535 on my odometer. Who needs catch fencing anyway? Another group is running at Firebird this weekend for those in the local area.


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[ 01-12-2010, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: JimEli ]

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Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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WTF... so Topeka canceled the event, not the track?!? For the fence over the wall?

Isn't that fence for spectator's safety, not ours?

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fishguyaz
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
WTF... so Topeka canceled the event, not the track?!? For the fence over the wall?

Isn't that fence for spectator's safety, not ours?

that is what I gather Rob.
the track was willing to have us race, and its up to the organization to decide if any track is up to their standards.
from what i understand, this was NOT the decision of our region, but that (a representative from) the national head quarters looked at the track as it is currently, and said "no race as it is".

I have a race coming up in my openwheeler scheduled at PIR first weekend of Feb. with a different club, and wonder if the track will be usable(to me).
the rebar sticking up from the wall does look menacing if there was an incident involving the top of the wall.

the entire situation sucks.

I dont blame SCCA AZ in anyway; i do think that it was a poor choice of timing for the track to do this modification RIGHT before the only double national, which is our largest event of the year, the AZ region ( a good client of PIR) has.


i think the exposed rebar that i have seen in pictures would be real bad to have an involvement with in an incident.

it looked like we had a really nice grid for the SM race. hopefully next year we will have the same.

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Josh Pitt
AZ Region

Johnny D Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by fishguyaz:
[QUOTE]
I dont blame SCCA AZ in anyway; i do think that it was a poor choice of timing for the track to do this modification RIGHT before the only double national, which is our largest event of the year, the AZ region ( a good client of PIR) has.


i think the exposed rebar that i have seen in pictures would be real bad to have an involvement with in an incident.


I would speculate that SCCA said the exposed rebar was a no go, and then PIR started right away to fix it, not to loose any more business.
Any est. time of completion?
No chance of finishing by Thursday afternoon?
Even if Jim helps since he's already there. [Smash]

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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Can't get the stupid rebar picture to open on Cal Club's forums.

Just strikes me as the track screwing the pooch and I wonder how hard everyone tried to find a solution.

What incentive did the Topeka guy have to say go race anyway? Saying no might have been the right call, or it might have been a big CYA move.

Makes me not want to support AZ-SCCA, SCCA, or PIR.

*sigh* frustrating.

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CLee
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This is the link to the PIR discussion on CalClub's forum:
Cal Club Forum - PIR Discussion Link

This is the image Leo Baker posted (1600x1200) on CalClub's forum which I have to resize to fit in here. It still showed all the exposed rebars!
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I can't imagine the track letting anyone run in that condition... especially in an open wheel!!

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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Thanks Clement, they won't approve my account on that site so I can't download photos.

That doesn't look too bad at all. Either bend all the rebar flush or cut it and wham bam, lets go racing.

I was afraid of poles without fence with spikes sticking out of them or something.

B.S. the SCCA and PIR just REALLY don't want my business.

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It really makes my week when nobody crashes into me.

fishguyaz
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
Just strikes me as the track screwing the pooch and I wonder how hard everyone tried to find a solution.

What incentive did the Topeka guy have to say go race anyway? Saying no might have been the right call, or it might have been a big CYA move.

Makes me not want to support AZ-SCCA, SCCA, or PIR.

*sigh* frustrating.

Rob,
i know you are pissed, all the racers are, and i am sure that the AZ region itself is even more pissed, but the reality is best put as "it is what it is".
The track made a really poor choice in timing (for us) with the construction, and the lack of any prior notification was piss poor, but i really hope you dont stop coming to race with us here.
while both of us may have been in cars with doors and roofs for this event, you have to remember that there was a fairly large group of open wheel cars entered, as well as sports racers.
even if the race was allowed, if i was in one of those type of cars that weekend, there is no way i would opt to run it.
even in my miata i would not be to thrilled about it, and would have to really consider if it was worth it to me to race with those rebar sticking out. I dont think I would race to be honest looking at the picture.
I have also heard that some areas of the wall are not completely there currently, so there are some gaps in the wall.(this is hearsay, i have not seen pictures to back that up, but i dont doubt it at all).
there is also no warning lights entering nascar #3 that used to be on the fence currently.
as hard as it is to digest, i think scca made the right call on this one.

Right now I dont think anyone is happy with PIR, other than NASCAR which is who i believe this change is being made to accomadate.

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Josh Pitt
AZ Region

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Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to race it as it sits, but cut or pound the rebar flush and facing the stands and I am ready for action.

There's still a good chance I'll do events in your region, but I used to not understand why people left the SCCA in droves and it just cracks me up when the SCCA lives up to it's reputation.

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Lance Snyder Made Donation to Website
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What reputation? Reputation of not letting you race on a track that is obviously fubarred? Who said PIR was willing to do what you say and cut/pound the rebar flush? It's amazing, if someone got hurt or killed with the track in this config SCCA would be blamed... they pull the plug SCCA is blamed, can't win for anything. Here I thought it was PIR that was doing the construction, guess it was SCCA national called ahead and told em to do the construction to sabotage the race.

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All this has happened before, and will happen again

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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PIR gets 90% of the blame, but until I hear about what the SCCA did to try to salvage the situation, I've lost respect.

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Lance Snyder Made Donation to Website
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I'm not sure what you want SCCA to do about exposed rebar, missing pieces of wall and warning lights not working. Send a construction crew maybe?

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All this has happened before, and will happen again

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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Assuming it's just rebar, try to cut a deal with the track. Flaggers are a low tech alternative to lights. Missing wall is just rumor at this time.

Transparency FTW.

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Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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Also, I'd venture a guess that even with spikes on top of the wall, PIR is still safer than turn 9 at Willow Springs or the giant dust clouds at Buttonwillow.

How often do SCCA cars take flight NASCAR style at PIR? Ever?

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It really makes my week when nobody crashes into me.

JimEli Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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proautosports at Firebird this weekend.

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Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
Also, I'd venture a guess that even with spikes on top of the wall, PIR is still safer than turn 9 at Willow Springs or the giant dust clouds at Buttonwillow.

How often do SCCA cars take flight NASCAR style at PIR? Ever?

Ok, just heard that they do. Wow. Nevermind!

Lets re-tune the above statement to say "with spikes cut or bent down" [Wink]

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PedalFaster Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
That doesn't look too bad at all. Either bend all the rebar flush or cut it and wham bam, lets go racing.

You just casually say that like it's a job a ten year-old could do with a pair of scissors, when it would actually take a professional construction crew that would probably cost a significant percentage of the track rental fee for the entire event, if one could even be scared up on short notice.

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
I used to not understand why people left the SCCA in droves and it just cracks me up when the SCCA lives up to it's reputation.

Add me to the list of people who don't understand why you're lashing out at the SCCA about this. By your own admission, the mistake was almost entirely if not entirely the track's fault -- venting at the SCCA seems misguided and vindictive.

This was a monumental f-up, but I don't take that as license to spit in the face of everyone who happens to be associated with the event.

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Stephen Hui - '95 SM #86, Northwest / Oregon Region SCCA

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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Fair enough. I'll cool it.

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CLee
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If PIR, AZ didn't tell SCCA about the construction / destruction until the last minute, it's 100% PIR, AZ's fault.

If SCCA knew about it but didn't tell the participants until the week of the event, that is 100% SCCA's fault.

If the whole event was cancelled and/or re-scheduled weeks ahead of time, I bet none of the participants are pissed and unhappy right now.

Brian Holtz
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
Also, I'd venture a guess that even with spikes on top of the wall, PIR is still safer than turn 9 at Willow Springs or the giant dust clouds at Buttonwillow.

How often do SCCA cars take flight NASCAR style at PIR? Ever?

I don't recall all the details of the accident, but David Fisher was killed at PIR in 2001 when his BMW got into the Turn 4 wall. For you to suggest that the SCCA should hold a race on a track with an incomplete, substandard wall and retention barrier is pretty shortsighted.

Kyle Freiheit
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Did I hear right? NASA ran a two day event at PIR with the track in the same condition it is in now?

Kyle

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Against my better judgment, I'll bite.

Did he (rest his soul) get the wall or the fence? Nascar 4 or infield 4?

Basilar skull fracture?

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This is why rebar exposed on top of a wall is a bad thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_uTG7hwpXE

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All this has happened before, and will happen again

JimEli Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian Holtz:
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
Also, I'd venture a guess that even with spikes on top of the wall, PIR is still safer than turn 9 at Willow Springs or the giant dust clouds at Buttonwillow.

How often do SCCA cars take flight NASCAR style at PIR? Ever?

I don't recall all the details of the accident, but David Fisher was killed at PIR in 2001 when his BMW got into the Turn 4 wall. For you to suggest that the SCCA should hold a race on a track with an incomplete, substandard wall and retention barrier is pretty shortsighted.
basal skull fracture after impact with the wall.

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Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by JimEli:
quote:
Originally posted by Brian Holtz:
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
Also, I'd venture a guess that even with spikes on top of the wall, PIR is still safer than turn 9 at Willow Springs or the giant dust clouds at Buttonwillow.

How often do SCCA cars take flight NASCAR style at PIR? Ever?

I don't recall all the details of the accident, but David Fisher was killed at PIR in 2001 when his BMW got into the Turn 4 wall. For you to suggest that the SCCA should hold a race on a track with an incomplete, substandard wall and retention barrier is pretty shortsighted.
basal skull fracture after impact with the wall.
Thanks Eli. Apples and oranges then. RIP David.

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CLee
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I believe there is another fatality on the front straight back in/around 2006 involving open wheel, I think with SCCA as well.

Don't recall what happened but shet happened there in/and around the front straight.

The track allowing any races there with exposed rebars on the wall in my opinion is total negligence.

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Posted on the AZSCCA.com Forum is a post regarding a re-schedule option for January 29, 30, and 31 at Firebird Main.

You might want to feedback if that is of interest to you.

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2009 SOPAC Division Champion

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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I'll be at chumpcar [Frown]

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It really makes my week when nobody crashes into me.

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I was 2 cars behind Mark in our Formula Vees in 2006, Thank god not a Fatality but still a pretty scary wreck on the front straight that brought out the Helicopter.

I believe that Mark is still racing the Glamdring.

Mike

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Mike Donick

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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
Assuming it's just rebar, try to cut a deal with the track. Flaggers are a low tech alternative to lights. Missing wall is just rumor at this time.

Transparency FTW.

While I don't have any real info on PIR other than what is seen in the photo, I would be really pissed if a sanctioning body approved an event with the wall having that exposed rebar. I'd be requesting a refund once I saw that wall.

Flattening or cutting the rebar is not an option if you consider the construction taking place. The rebar is there to allow the concrete wall to be raised in height. You can't just get rid of it until you pour the concrete.

And I'm totally shocked that Lance let Rob make the "Flaggers are a low tech alternative to lights." statement without comment. You're getting soft in your older age.

Jerry

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Just driving SM until the F-1 car is ready.

CLee
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quote:
Originally posted by AllardK3:
I was 2 cars behind Mark in our Formula Vees in 2006, Thank god not a Fatality but still a pretty scary wreck on the front straight that brought out the Helicopter.

I believe that Mark is still racing the Glamdring.

Mike

Thanks for the clarification and glad that Mark is well and still racing.

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Jerry Cabe:
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
Assuming it's just rebar, try to cut a deal with the track. Flaggers are a low tech alternative to lights. Missing wall is just rumor at this time.

Transparency FTW.

While I don't have any real info on PIR other than what is seen in the photo, I would be really pissed if a sanctioning body approved an event with the wall having that exposed rebar.
Go ahead and get pissed, NASA raced there last weekend. [Big Grin]

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It really makes my week when nobody crashes into me.

d mathias Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
NASA raced there last weekend.
Surprize, surprize.

Lance Snyder Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Jerry Cabe:
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
Assuming it's just rebar, try to cut a deal with the track. Flaggers are a low tech alternative to lights. Missing wall is just rumor at this time.

Transparency FTW.

And I'm totally shocked that Lance let Rob make the "Flaggers are a low tech alternative to lights." statement without comment. You're getting soft in your older age.

Jerry

Unfortunately everything I wanted to say would have started a flame war and that would not be a good example to set. It's pretty obvious from this thread Rob is doing everything he can to trash SCCA from national to local officials and even the low tech alternatives that work on corners. Hopefully SCCA gets with the times and replaces us low tech alternatives with the high tech lights to better serve folks like Rob.

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All this has happened before, and will happen again

Pat Newton Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Lance, it's just another chapter in the long and storied history of "SoCal SM guy online buffoonery." Anybody remember Bernard? [Big Grin]

That a broad enough brush for ya? [duck]

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Crew Chief, 3D Racing #64, aka Team Scrappy 2.0
3rd place E2, 2009 25 Hours of Thunderhill

Crew Chief, EGR/Miller Motorsports #64, aka Team Scrappy
E2 Champions, 2008 25 Hours of Thunderhill

d mathias Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I miss Bernie.

 
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