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» Hello Spec Miata Community » Sports Car Club of America » SCCA North Pacific » Oregon Region Suspension Upgrade Poll

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Author Topic: Oregon Region Suspension Upgrade Poll
B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
Gold Member

Region: Oregon
Car #: 68
Year : 91
Posts: 2359
Status: Offline
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With assistance from the SMAC, the CRB has put together some changes that will help with parity.

If development on the 99 continues, how will we achieve parity?

The problem is that further weight reduction for the 1.6 is not possible and adding restrictor or weight to the 99 is also undesirable. We currently don't have a parity problem in Oregon/NW, but it could happen.

Please vote for or against the proposed upgrade to 99 subframe. If you don't understand the associated costs, please do a search and educate yourself so that you can make an informed decision. Please Vote, as this is important for us to send the correct message to the CRB/BOD.

Thanks,

-Bruce

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Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E3 and Under 2 liter Overall Champion
Oregon Region SM Class Advisor

B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
Gold Member

Region: Oregon
Car #: 68
Year : 91
Posts: 2359
Status: Offline
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I voted yes just so I could see the results. I will reccomend whatever you guys want.

-bw

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Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E3 and Under 2 liter Overall Champion
Oregon Region SM Class Advisor

B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
Gold Member

Region: Oregon
Car #: 68
Year : 91
Posts: 2359
Status: Offline
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Also please understand that voting here does not send the needed input back to the CRB/BOD members. You need to write the crb@scca.com to do that. This is mostly for group awareness and my conversations with Todd Butler.

-bw

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Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E3 and Under 2 liter Overall Champion
Oregon Region SM Class Advisor

JimEli Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: NWR
Car #: 5
Year : 1991
Posts: 252
Status: Offline
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While I'm not an OR member, I do race with you guys. And what prevents other outsiders from voting and skewing the poll?

Everyone should really send you a pm.

I voted no. I could use that money to buy a pro motor ;-)

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UPR.com
Team LemonLappers

B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
Gold Member

Region: Oregon
Car #: 68
Year : 91
Posts: 2359
Status: Offline
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Of course this is open to anyone who races in Oregon region or NW region for that matter. Again just background conversations I want to facilitate and just get an idea of the general feel for these type of parity changes.

Please also send a PM to me if you have strong feelings one way or another. Or I'll talk to everyone at the August race too.

-b

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Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E3 and Under 2 liter Overall Champion
Oregon Region SM Class Advisor

Kyle Keenan Verified Driver
Pass right

Region: OR, NWR
Car #: 44
SMIM: AIM: KKRProducts
Posts: 344
Status: Offline
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I voted no, you guys are hard enough to keep up with to begin with!

I'm just curious why the thousands of people with the 90's have to change to the 99 subframe, when the hundred or so 99's dont change to the 90 subframe. Maybe it doesnt work, who knows?

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Driver, #44 Spec Miata
ColdTrackDays.com

Mark de Regt Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: NWR/Oregon; ICSCC
Car #: 70
Year : 1991
Posts: 1111
Status: Offline
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Bruce, I have read all the changes, and really don't have the knowledge base to make an informed decision.

Dropping ten pounds off of my car does me no good, since I'm already as light as I get, and the car seems to be as light as it gets.

But the meat of it is that I don't know how hard it is to make the suspension upgrades, or how expensive. Of all the wrenching there is that I hate (most of it), I have a special hate for suspension mods.

Can those who understand these changes comment?

Thanks.

Randy Thieme
Member

Region: Oregon
Car #: 51
Year : 1993
Posts: 322
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark de Regt:
... or how expensive. ....

Obviously I'm not the expert but a couple of people have itemized the cost in this thread. Looks to be at least a kilobuck. For the record and FWIW I voted no.

PedalFaster Verified Driver
Member

Region: Northwest
Car #: 86
Year : 1995
Posts: 372
Status: Offline
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It's a kilobuck for new parts -- it would be a lot less for used parts. Still, I think it's a bad idea; even at used prices, the cost-to-benefit ratio isn't great, and the people who think parity is broken don't think this will help, so they'll keep griping even if it's approved.

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Stephen Hui - '95 SM #86, Northwest / Oregon Region SCCA

Dudley Redhead
Member

Region: Oregon
Car #: 01
SMIM: 2009 Ore. Region Crew Chief of the Year 2010 Ore. Region ITA Champion
Posts: 32
Status: Offline
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Right now I don't agree with the expense on pre 99 cars to update to later specs. The concept of Spec Miata was low cost to build and race. The update to 99 specs is not in the concept of Spec Miata. Also as noted above why should the large number of pre 99 cars have to update to the small number of 99 cars. Some form of limitation should be used for the 99 cars, which would probably be far less costly than the pre 99 cars.
So I vote no.

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Dudley Redhead

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Pack Fodder

Region: NWR / Oregon
Car #: 88
Year : 95
Posts: 2000
Status: Offline
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I voted yes because if the '99 suspension is easier to drive long stints it's good for enduros and I could use a bit more consistancy.

Selfish reason, granted but honest.

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Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

JamesW Verified Driver
Member

Posts: 33
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Right now it's hard for me to vote yes...without understanding the quantified data, which justified the proposed suspension upgrade. Wait....is there any quantified data out there? Yep...I've read most of the forums...and didn't see anything which makes me think the cost is worth it.

So...for now I'm voting no. But am open to changing that opinion once more tangible data is available.

PS...2275 is not realistic with my configuration. 2285 was a good target...but at 2275 the carrot is out of sight.

Overall...the active steps toward parity is healthy for the class. It would suck if things were stagnant.

Mark de Regt Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: NWR/Oregon; ICSCC
Car #: 70
Year : 1991
Posts: 1111
Status: Offline
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I agree with James. Without understanding the benefit of these "upgrades," it's hard for me to justify spending all that money and time doing these upgrades.

Spence Gatrell
Member

Region: Oregon
Car #: 27
Year : 1991
Posts: 23
Status: Offline
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Anyone know if the sub-frames on all NB tubs (1994-2005) are the same, or are the 99' sub-frames just the hot ticket?

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When in doubt.. Stand on it!

Spence Gatrell
Member

Region: Oregon
Car #: 27
Year : 1991
Posts: 23
Status: Offline
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Strike that...

NA -1989 to 1997
NB -1998 to 2004
NC -2005 to present

info via wikipedia... Anyone?

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When in doubt.. Stand on it!

B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
Gold Member

Region: Oregon
Car #: 68
Year : 91
Posts: 2359
Status: Offline
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I'm surprised by the results as I thought it would be more lopsided against.

current results are 70/30% against.

Also sounds like some of you could be convinced its a good thing.

Make sure you read this http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/41/126.html#000013

There will be BOD vote in a couple weeks, so let's make sure that we are sure about this. I'll talk to a lot of you this weekend about it too.

Thanks,

-Bruce

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Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E3 and Under 2 liter Overall Champion
Oregon Region SM Class Advisor

B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
Gold Member

Region: Oregon
Car #: 68
Year : 91
Posts: 2359
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for B Wilson   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Another thought. The ITA problem can be fixed based on the way our rules work in Oregon region, i.e. SM = ITA.

-bw

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Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E3 and Under 2 liter Overall Champion
Oregon Region SM Class Advisor

Dudley Redhead
Member

Region: Oregon
Car #: 01
SMIM: 2009 Ore. Region Crew Chief of the Year 2010 Ore. Region ITA Champion
Posts: 32
Status: Offline
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regarding sm=ita. there is a proposal jim told me for a new class stl, which will list a spec miata as being a legal stl car. this would be a national listing, so no regional subs are required.

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Dudley Redhead

Kyle Freiheit
Member

Region: NWR
Car #: #78 sorry Terrell
Year : 1992
Posts: 270
Status: Offline
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I voted no because I don't think this is the largest disparity between the cars. Yes, it is part of the puzzle but weight and torque are our biggest problems.

Granted, once we find a way to get the cars closer together in weight and hp/trq(cough, restrictor and larger exhaust for all 1.8s, or something like that) then it would be nice for us all to be on the same suspension. But I think this is a little cart before the horse.

JamesW,
Pilfered from another thread. Who pilfered from Mazda.
Front

Lower subframe brace stiffened
Lower control arm position moved forward 2.1mm
Lower control arm position lowered 5.7mm
Upper control arm position moved backward 3.0mm
Tie-rod mounting position raised 7.1mm on knuckle
Improved mounting rigidity of steering rack

Rear

Rear subrframe brace stiffened
5mm wider track from knuckle mounting location repositioning

Kyle

   

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