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Author Topic: NASA 37mm Restrictor Plates - READY TO ORDER
John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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Follow the below link to purchase the 37mm Restrictor Plate for 99-00 cars. This part is a requirement for the 99-00 cars at 2011 NASA events.

NASA 37mm RP Order

Price is $30, which includes shipping. Plate has S/N and is anodized Black.

 -

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Cliffy Chains
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I see alot of really happy 99' owners [Mad]

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BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

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I see a lot not running NASA

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2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

CarbonRacer
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With the plate at least I will be able to still see the back bumpers of the 99's.

I think I should get one of those "Down On Power 1.6's" so I can run up front. ;-P

Willie the Tard Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by CarbonRacer:
With the plate at least I will be able to still see the back bumpers of the 99's.

I think I should get one of those "Down On Power 1.6's" so I can run up front. ;-P

I think we might not ever know -- the 99 might not show up or if the do will they sandbag

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William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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I'll run STU at TWS in this config if you trust I wont Sandbag?

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Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

MPR22
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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
I'll run STU at TWS in this config if you trust I wont Sandbag?

Depending on the weather, it may or may not give usable data. If its cool, you wont feel as much of the effect of the straw like we will in the August races.

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Michael Ross

Willie the Tard Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
I'll run STU at TWS in this config if you trust I wont Sandbag?

cool it will be good to see you in Texas

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William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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I'm coming! Looks like fun and I have no tracks in division anymore oher than Hallet under 10 hr drive. [Frown]

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Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

Alex Bolanos Verified Driver Series Champ
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My 99 is now SCCA only, after having several great door to door races with Cliff in his 1.6 I have no desire to watch him sail away on the straights due to this change.

Cliffy Chains
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Just a thought, but I think some of the 1.6's will have a chance, and some could even have a chance with even a spark plug wire unattached... [rolling on floor laughin]

I will run some Nasa events this year, and I promise, no "Down on Power" comments... [Confused]

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BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

kwebb
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I think NASA will see the blunder of their ways if they just track the sales of the 37mm restrictor! I won't be buying one!

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Kyle Webb
#96 SM

Dave Stevens
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Tucker:
I see a lot not running NASA

There aren't a lot of 99s in NASA anyway. Out here it's not going to be an issue and the bitching I read from 99 guys are mostly ones that haven't run NASA in a couple of years. Or ever. And some of these are the same guys that have dismissive, arrogant views toward NASA competitors anyway. So what if NASA becomes favorable to NA cars?

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The 2011 Money Furnace
http://racing.roaddog.com/

Blake Clements Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Stevens:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Tucker:
I see a lot not running NASA

There aren't a lot of 99s in NASA anyway. Out here it's not going to be an issue and the bitching I read from 99 guys are mostly ones that haven't run NASA in a couple of years. Or ever. And some of these are the same guys that have dismissive, arrogant views toward NASA competitors anyway. So what if NASA becomes favorable to NA cars?
There aren't alot of 99's on the west coast in general. With NASA Championships moving back to Mid Ohio, they had a really good opporunity to bring a lot of people back from the middle and east (where there is large number of 99s) to NASA.

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Blake Clements

PhillipsRacePrep/SP Induction Systems/East Street Racing/MiataCage.com/Carbotech/WBR Graphics

www.blakeclements.com

Cliffy Chains
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Stevens:
quote:
Originally posted by Golfing Guru:
There aren't alot of 99's on the west coast in general. With NASA Championships moving back to Mid Ohio, they had a really good opporunity to bring a lot of people back from the middle and east

There aren't a lot of 99s in NASA anyway. Out here it's not going to be an issue and the bitching I read from 99 guys are mostly ones that haven't run NASA in a couple of years. Or ever. And some of these are the same guys that have dismissive, arrogant views toward NASA competitors anyway. So what if NASA becomes favorable to NA cars?
Most of the not running Nasa is due to exactly what our Golfing Expert said, If the Championships were closer, then I and a few others with so called "dismissive, arrogant views toward NASA competitors" would compete locally with the intention of making an apperance at the Championships.
This way we can do our "bitching" from behind the wheel of a DOP 1.6 and not a 99'. [thumbsup]

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BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

fishguyaz
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Stevens:
There aren't a lot of 99s in NASA anyway. Out here it's not going to be an issue and the bitching I read from 99 guys are mostly ones that haven't run NASA in a couple of years. Or ever. And some of these are the same guys that have dismissive, arrogant views toward NASA competitors anyway. So what if NASA becomes favorable to NA cars? [/QB]

I thought that this move was to create parity, not a favorable leaning towards any one car?

anyway, we had 20 cars racing the SCCA national in january at phoenix, and quite a few 99 cars
with good drivers in them.
1.6 and 1.8(94-97) cars were the winners both days.
it looked to me that any year car could have won the races which = parity (or as close as it could be expected). each generation car had their strengths and weaknesses on different parts of the track.

no matter NASA in my region has 1 SM driver at their events, and if i am going to travel for a race it will be where my car has a chance to win when it is unloaded from the trailer.
seems to me to be under the scca rules set, so thats where it will be run this season.


Edit was only to fix the quote... JD

[ 01-24-2011, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Drago ]

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Josh Pitt
AZ Region

kwebb
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quote:
Originally posted by fishguyaz:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Stevens:
There aren't a lot of 99s in NASA anyway. Out here it's not going to be an issue and the bitching I read from 99 guys are mostly ones that haven't run NASA in a couple of years. Or ever. And some of these are the same guys that have dismissive, arrogant views toward NASA competitors anyway. So what if NASA becomes favorable to NA cars?

I thought that this move was to create parity, not a favorable leaning towards any one car?

anyway, we had 20 cars racing the SCCA national in january at phoenix, and quite a few 99 cars
with good drivers in them.
1.6 and 1.8(94-97) cars were the winners both days.
it looked to me that any year car could have won the races which = parity (or as close as it could be expected). each generation car had their strengths and weaknesses on different parts of the track.

no matter NASA in my region has 1 SM driver at their events, and if i am going to travel for a race it will be where my car has a chance to win when it is unloaded from the trailer.
seems to me to be under the scca rules set, so thats where it will be run this season.
Josh Pitt
AZ Region
[/QB]

Amen Brother!!!!!!! I started with NASA and loved it they just lost my SM biz, and it wasn't so much the RP, it's the attitude that it's my job to disprove their theory of SM evolution and not their job to prove it to me (that their facts are well supported by testing)! never once have they showed a single shred of evidence that they didnt just play pin the tail on the donkey to see what new rules should we come up with!

[ 01-24-2011, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Drago ]

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Kyle Webb
#96 SM

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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In fairness to John and NASA, if none of us 99 guys run... They can't get it correct either. I think getting the weights closer was a good move and in time, hopefully sooner rather than later, they will get the plate right as well.
We have the chicken and the egg scenario...

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Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

kwebb
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Jim, this is where I will have to respectfully disagree with you! John IMO has nothing to do with the problem at hand, he is new and doing his best and my IRE is not in any way aimed at him! NASA is just dead wrong on this one, the responsibility is on them to do the testing on track and on the dyno. They are for a profit biz and they should be sure of the product they are selling! If they are sure they can at least post their data, rather then back peddling from the start on (you 99 guys need to come out and show us where we went wrong) The new rules are alot like OBAMA CARE, dont really let the public see whats going on just decide whats best for us beacuse there is one constituancy clammoring for change! Change is not always good, its the same as practice doesnt make perfect! Perfect practice makes perfect! Good changes are welcome changes! If none of us 99 owners run they will know they did not get it right Right! I have personally talked to other 99 owners who feel exactly the way I do and time will tell if any beleive in the product enough to give it a shot! So far it seems a big win for SCCA, so will it be a big loss for NASA we shall soon see April 10th Mid-Oh is just around the corner!

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Kyle Webb
#96 SM

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

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All I know is that I only raced a couple of NASA races and then stopped because there was zero competition. That was until recently when Nasa here in Florida, with the help of John A and others, started making progress in that department and therefore started seeing the SM car count increase. Myself and a few others where planning on running a few races this year but will not now do to this rule change and having 99s. No big deal; I will just stay with the SCCA were at least they try to make the cars equal with actual data.

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2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Johnny D Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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This is a good topic, remember end of this week.

We are moving! Continue the discussion at http://www.mazdaracers.com This site will be placed into archive mode Jan 31st 2010.

I'll be running Infineon Feb 12th. SM and PTE, PTE with the SCCA SM setup, I'll report back but not here.
J~

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Avatar Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww9cFE3lKcA

kwebb
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Tucker:
All I know is that I only raced a couple of NASA races and then stopped because there was zero competition. That was until recently when Nasa here in Florida, with the help of John A and others, started making progress in that department and therefore started seeing the SM car count increase. Myself and a few others where planning on running a few races this year but will not now do to this rule change and having 99s. No big deal; I will just stay with the SCCA were at least they try to make the cars equal with actual data.

It is the exact opposite here in Great lakes way more competition ( at least in entries numbers) in NASA last year 25% of the 28 car fields were 99's but know of several who sold their cars and bought or built 99's since then so it maybe 35% now That is still significant! I have been getting emails asking about how it is a SCCA from guys. The best racer in SCCA is obviously MB, and there are others like Deerwester and Kuchera both great racers in their own right. I might see smaller fields over at SCCA but the competition will be just as fierce, I dont think the caliber of racer differs that much from NASA to SCCA apart from MB. And John A down in FL. is great people I hope he doesn't get to discouraged when you guys stop showing up! I do think lot's of SCCA 99 guys had Sept NASA Champ races marked on their callendars Mid Ohio is always a great draw and I would have been awesome to see all of SCCA's best show up as well! That's just good for racing in general!

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Kyle Webb
#96 SM

kwebb
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quote:
Originally posted by Johnny D:
This is a good topic, remember end of this week.

We are moving! Continue the discussion at http://www.mazdaracers.com This site will be placed into archive mode Jan 31st 2010.

I'll be running Infineon Feb 12th. SM and PTE, PTE with the SCCA SM setup, I'll report back but not here.
J~

I look forward to seeing your results! Good luck in SM @ INF

--------------------
Kyle Webb
#96 SM

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
In fairness to John and NASA, if none of us 99 guys run... They can't get it correct either. I think getting the weights closer was a good move and in time, hopefully sooner rather than later, they will get the plate right as well.
We have the chicken and the egg scenario...

Thanks Jim. I understand and somewhat agree with Kyles rant, not knowing all the testing details is admittedly a problem.

quote:
Originally posted by kwebb:
NASA is just dead wrong on this one, the responsibility is on them to do the testing on track and on the dyno. They are for a profit biz and they should be sure of the product they are selling! If they are sure they can at least post their data, rather then back peddling from the start on (you 99 guys need to come out and show us where we went wrong) Good changes are welcome changes! If none of us 99 owners run they will know they did not get it right Right! I have personally talked to other 99 owners who feel exactly the way I do and time will tell if any beleive in the product enough to give it a shot!

Testing was done, not as much as I would have liked, but enough to reach NASAs goals. The tests were done on good cars with very stout motors and reasonable prep. The lack of cars at the last few west-coast 2009 events made the pool smaller, then fell the holidays, the 25hr and finally more rain than this area has seen in 30yrs... I made the arrangements and agreed not to publish the data with the car owners. Sorry, I'd rather take some heat then break a promise. [fight]

If NASA did not believe that the new plate size would meet the goal of slowing the 99's down then it would have become part of the rules. (Yes, I said it that was the goal, opposed to speeding all the other cars up.) The question is not will the 37mm work, but how much & is it to much or to little? The tests NASA did showed 37mm to be really close (so they went with it), more tests have been scheduled.

I can understand not wanting to run NASA SM if you feel your car has been rendered uncompetitive... I get it, many NA driver have felt that way for a few years. However, if you really want to attend a NASA event why not run fully uncorked with open tires in PTE or TT? Maybe you could arrange beforehand with your Regions SM Series Leader to get a few pro-bono sessions (different run group) to play with the 37mm plate and the 41mm to compare times (on RA-1's please [Wink] ). I see nothing bad coming from it, plus the PT & TT races will count toward qualifying for Nationals. Win-Win-Win. [group hug]

To sum up: NASA is going to slow the 99's a smaller than 41mm plate while reducing weight. NASA's data suggests 37mm will do the trick but is willing to make adjustments if it is not perfect but needs proof to make an mid-season changes.

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

d mathias Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Maybe we should wait until a few NASA races have taken place, and see how the specs work in the real world, before we announce that the sky is falling.

-Denny

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by kwebb:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jamie Tucker:
[qb] I dont think the caliber of racer differs that much from NASA to SCCA apart from MB.

If Coello,Slattery, Manning, Bennett and a few others show up at the first national, I think you may have a different opinion. [Wink] At least in your area.
Jim

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

kwebb
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quote:
Originally posted by John Mueller:
quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
In fairness to John and NASA, if none of us 99 guys run... They can't get it correct either. I think getting the weights closer was a good move and in time, hopefully sooner rather than later, they will get the plate right as well.
We have the chicken and the egg scenario...

Thanks Jim. I understand and somewhat agree with Kyles rant, not knowing all the testing details is admittedly a problem.

quote:
Originally posted by kwebb:
NASA is just dead wrong on this one, the responsibility is on them to do the testing on track and on the dyno. They are for a profit biz and they should be sure of the product they are selling! If they are sure they can at least post their data, rather then back peddling from the start on (you 99 guys need to come out and show us where we went wrong) Good changes are welcome changes! If none of us 99 owners run they will know they did not get it right Right! I have personally talked to other 99 owners who feel exactly the way I do and time will tell if any beleive in the product enough to give it a shot!

Testing was done, not as much as I would have liked, but enough to reach NASAs goals. The tests were done on good cars with very stout motors and reasonable prep. The lack of cars at the last few west-coast 2009 events made the pool smaller, then fell the holidays, the 25hr and finally more rain than this area has seen in 30yrs... I made the arrangements and agreed not to publish the data with the car owners. Sorry, I'd rather take some heat then break a promise. [fight]

If NASA did not believe that the new plate size would meet the goal of slowing the 99's down then it would have become part of the rules. (Yes, I said it that was the goal, opposed to speeding all the other cars up.) The question is not will the 37mm work, but how much & is it to much or to little? The tests NASA did showed 37mm to be really close (so they went with it), more tests have been scheduled.

I can understand not wanting to run NASA SM if you feel your car has been rendered uncompetitive... I get it, many NA driver have felt that way for a few years. However, if you really want to attend a NASA event why not run fully uncorked with open tires in PTE or TT? Maybe you could arrange beforehand with your Regions SM Series Leader to get a few pro-bono sessions (different run group) to play with the 37mm plate and the 41mm to compare times (on RA-1's please [Wink] ). I see nothing bad coming from it, plus the PT & TT races will count toward qualifying for Nationals. Win-Win-Win. [group hug]

To sum up: NASA is going to slow the 99's a smaller than 41mm plate while reducing weight. NASA's data suggests 37mm will do the trick but is willing to make adjustments if it is not perfect but needs proof to make an mid-season changes.

John thank you for at least agreeing that I have some valid reasons to disagree! I may have been one of the most vocal, my gripe as I have stated is with NO DATA! I am ok with a lighter car and bigger restrictor! I have said I like NASA many times but think they are dead wrong on this! I also think NASA racers are just as good as SCCA guys both groups are nothing but class drivers!

I am planning to run PTE [Smile] possibly TTE but I hate all the stupid TT meeting [Frown] Hopefully PTE will still run with the SM's so I can still be on thrack with my friends!

So as you can see desisions have been made already that are kind of hard to go back money has been spent for PTE now, so it was a net loss for SM a class I loved, and competition I craved but not a net loss on my account for NASA although I plan to run only enough races to qualify for the Champ race and will concentrate on SCCA in another car.

I would be happy to bring my SM to the track with a 37mm and run FREE and I repeat FREE test laps as many as you like with my 99 at your new weight and you can have all the traqmate data you can download. I also have plenty of old files from my 2001 to compare it with.

For a free test and tune Friday I would even switch back to SCCA specs to give you comparisons if thats what you wanted! I have stated from the start I am not going to pay my money to be the lab mouse! So if Dave and Brian would like my help on this I more than willing to help them as they have been nothign short of terrific to me! Class acts both of them! And I know they want what is best for NASA as well as the racers! I can see that you do to John and I commend you for that! You know where to find me if you want to follow through on getting data from a absolutly top prepared car with a so so driver! You can confirm the car prep with DRAGO! Best of luck and hope to one day get to actually meet you!

--------------------
Kyle Webb
#96 SM

kwebb
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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
quote:
Originally posted by kwebb:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jamie Tucker:
[qb] I dont think the caliber of racer differs that much from NASA to SCCA apart from MB.

If Coello,Slattery, Manning, Bennett and a few others show up at the first national, I think you may have a different opinion. [Wink] At least in your area.
Jim

Jim as we have discussed many times only privatly it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong [rolling on floor laughin] I named MB I dont know all the other names out there like you do!

You also know my opinion I want to race against the best I am just not to the point of great travels yet and you know I welcome racing them at Mid Ohio! And plan to do just that this year at the SCCA national in June! I hope to learn something from seeing them in action! Well if I can even get close enough to see their tail lights [help]

Just hope you will be there as well! [Big Grin]

--------------------
Kyle Webb
#96 SM

d mathias Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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If necessary, I would be willing to run FREE test laps too.

Cliffy Chains
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quote:
Originally posted by John Mueller:
To sum up: NASA is going to slow the 99's a smaller than 41mm plate while reducing weight. NASA's data suggests 37mm will do the trick but is willing to make adjustments if it is not perfect but needs proof to make an mid-season changes

So before everyone jumps overboard Is it possible that NASA may be making signifigant changes to plate rules, after qualifying for the Championships, as they are as of today?

I think this is important to alot of drivers who would be looking forward to the 99's being, an underdog, IMHO for the Nasa 2011 Season. Which may draw more of the NA cars over to the Nasa side.

As far as the caliber of driver, I will be glad to share what data I collect vs the further restricted NB cars, It may be skewed just a little compared to the caliber of driver we have up north...

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quote:
Originally posted by Cliffy Chains:
So before everyone jumps overboard Is it possible that NASA may be making signifigant changes to plate rules, after qualifying for the Championships, as they are as of today?

Define 'significant? Is a 1mm change? is 2mm? That is all I'm talking about here... And, if a change is made it will be done well in advance to September.

--------------------
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That sounds plenty fair enough, as long as they have less than a 41, the sun might shine.....etc, etc. And Thank you for clearing it up so quickly..I'm in.

--------------------
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quote:
Originally posted by John Mueller:
I can understand not wanting to run NASA SM if you feel your car has been rendered uncompetitive... I get it, many NA driver have felt that way for a few years. However, if you really want to attend a NASA event why not run fully uncorked with open tires in PTE or TT? [/QB]

Speaking personally as a "somewhat competitive" SM driver who has/had intentions of racing NASA this year, not as an official of any kind... Personally, I dont want to run uncorked and faster neccesarily. Most, like me have come to SM for the competition. I can go faster for a lot less money in 3-5 car classes quite easily and win every time out, that is not for me.

I know the grief and frustration you will experience as series director, I am certainly not trying to make it any worse. NA cars have won the last two NASA champs,many NASA and SCCA races. Only time will tell if the 99 wins in NASA at the current weight/plate.

John, you said "slow the 99" above, is that the goal of NASA? To slightly favor the NA cars? I am not stirring it up, just trying to understand a little better and I feel that is the NASA position? Make all cars close, but if anything try and favor the NA cars. If that is the position, that is fine and probably makes sense.

Jim

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quote:
Originally posted by d mathias:
Maybe we should wait until a few NASA races have taken place, and see how the specs work in the real world, before we announce that the sky is falling.

-Denny

It makes me sad that someone with your post count can be so naïve. [Wink] [Smash]

In other words, +1.

--------------------
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I never let facts and rational thought get in the way of a good rant. [Big Grin]

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Just to be a contrarian, I bought a plate. [Big Grin]

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quote:
Originally posted by d mathias:
I never let facts and rational thought get in the way of a good rant. [Big Grin]

Thats why we all fit in so well here [Smile]

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Did somebody say rant??? [Smile]

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Thanks Mr. Mueller. I have said for a long time the weight and plates are the way to go; this can be adjusted cheaply, quickly and easily. I think it is funny how many folks have criticized these changes due to the lack of data (public or private) but at the same time say (without any data) they “know” that this change (or any change to the ’99) is wrong. I have talked to one pro engine builder (that builds all flavors) and his testing showed that the HP curve lines up well with the 1.6 with the NB 1.8 still having a torque advantage(sorry as I only thought ask about 1.6 vs. ’99). So my WAG is that it should be close with the extra weight on the ’99 (over the 1.6). I have no data but another WAG is that the NA 1.8 is the car to have in NASA, but that and anything else that shows in the season can be adjusted cheaply, quickly and easily.

Begin pot stirring.

‘John, you said "slow the 99" above, is that the goal of NASA? To slightly favor the NA cars? I am not stirring it up, just trying to understand a little better and I feel that is the NASA position?’ writes Mr. Drago, Really -- not stirring it up – Really!! I like the way you make statements but you question marks as thou you are just asking. Myself and a good portion of the people I have talked to believe that the SCCA has been favoring the ’99-’00 over all over all other flavors. So I’m sorry if your “questions” strike me as a bit hypocritical and as if delivered from a very high horse – it may just be a perception thing on my part – everyone knows I am not very smart.

End pot stirring

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quote:
Originally posted by Willie the Tard:
‘John, you said "slow the 99" above, is that the goal of NASA? To slightly favor the NA cars? I am not stirring it up, just trying to understand a little better and I feel that is the NASA position.’ writes Mr. Drago, Really -- not stirring it up – Really? I like the way you make statements but you question marks as thou you are just asking. Myself and a good portion of the people I have talked to believe that the SCCA has been favoring the ’99-’00 over all over all other flavors. So I’m sorry if your “questions” strike me as a bit hypocritical and as if delivered from a very high horse – it may just be a perception thing on my part – everyone knows I am not very smart.

End pot stirring

Willie
Whether you agree with SCCA parity or not, I will tell you it is not SCCA intention to make one car any better than the rest. You are certainly entitled to your opinion that we got it wrong and you often let us know just that [Big Grin]
I feel my question is and was a valid one. Is the NASA intent to slightly favor the NA cars or to have all cars "equal"? I would have no problem answering the same question, nor do I feel it is pot stirring.
I have also said John will never satisfy even 60% of all SM racers, it is impossible. [yep] I feel his changes were in the right direction (getting all cars closer in over all HP and over all weight, not just ratios.) I have also said that SCCA will monitor NASA changes and have no problem going that way if it proves to work out well and to give his rules a chance.

I do tend to use "?" where there should be periods, you use to many exclamation points. ( I edited them out above for both of us.) [Big Grin]

I have horses, I don't get up on the high ones anymore by the way, too far to fall and it hurts a lot more at 44 than it did at 24. [Big Grin]

I stand by the question as asked. All that was asked was NASA intent of the NASA SM series director. I think it is valid question for any in the SM community of any sanctioning body.
Jim

--------------------
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Theory: anyone who says they are something, aren't. And vice versa.

Need an example? Anytime any of the Jersey Shore girls say they're "classy" right after they engage in a bit of friendly hair pulling.

--------------------
Rob Gibson
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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
John, you said "slow the 99" above, is that the goal of NASA? To slightly favor the NA cars?

... I feel that is the NASA position (to) Make all cars close, but if anything try and favor the NA cars. If that is the position, that is fine and probably makes sense.

Jim

The immediate goal was to get the cars as close to each other as possible (by slowing the 99) with the same level of talent behind the wheel.

SIDE NOTE: The reality is if I got in any 'front running 99' and that driver got in my mid-pack 1.6 they'd still kick my butt by a Memphis mile. So, measuring a 'cars parody' is tough when the majority of the talent drive 99's (no offense to NA drivers)... Really, I thought coming up with a rule would be easy - BOY was I wrong!!

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
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quote:
Originally posted by Gibscreen:
Anytime any of the Jersey Shore girls say they're "classy" right after they engage in a bit of friendly hair pulling.

Wait. You watch Jersey Shore? Dude. [laughing] [laughing] [laughing]

--------------------
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Stirring...
What happens if it turns out there is more parity and SCCA likes it and switches over?
J~

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This is my opinion, but I feel it should be said:
I know NASA and SCCA want the same thing - Close competitive racing at a reasonable costs for their members. The problem is this year the two are going about it at slightly different angles.

I and NASA respect SCCA & SMAC's choices, this their path and it may be right (I heard the racing 2-weeks ago in Arizona & last weekend at Cal Speedway was great). NASA chose a different path which they thought to be right. Nevertheless, the fact that a difference of 4mm and some weight has created such a stir says we're both onto something.

--------------------
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quote:
Originally posted by John Mueller:
quote:
Originally posted by Gibscreen:
Anytime any of the Jersey Shore girls say they're "classy" right after they engage in a bit of friendly hair pulling.

Wait. You watch Jersey Shore? Dude. [laughing] [laughing] [laughing]
You don't??? Funniest thing on TV. Sorry its not the "high brow" entertainment of something like Dancing With the Stars or Two and a Half Men...

--------------------
Rob Gibson
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quote:
Originally posted by Willie the Tard:
I think it is funny how many folks have criticized these changes due to the lack of data (public or private) but at the same time say (without any data) they “know” that this change (or any change to the ’99) is wrong. I have talked to one pro engine builder (that builds all flavors) and his testing showed that the HP curve lines up well with the 1.6 with the NB 1.8 still having a torque advantage(sorry as I only thought ask about 1.6 vs. ’99). So my WAG is that it should be close with the extra weight on the ’99 (over the 1.6). I have no data but another WAG is that the NA 1.8 is the car to have in NASA, but that and anything else that shows in the season can be adjusted cheaply, quickly and easily.


Probably a mistake posting, but.......

Did this engine builder also tell you that the torque advantage quickly dissapears in the rev range that the cars typically race? Have you seen any overlayed data? I have. Assume not by your statement above. BTW, if the "HP curves line up well", torque is the same bud.....

What do you think will happen when torque is quickly matched/hp equal but one car weighs ~120 lbs more? (Assuming all else equal)

I don't run NASA anymore for a variety of reasons, so it doesn't really matter to me, but I figured I would throw that bone out. In my opinion, a 99 should not win in NASA. If it does, the 1.6 might be a turd or the 99 pilot a clearly better driver. Just my [twocents]

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quote:
Originally posted by John Mueller:
quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
John, you said "slow the 99" above, is that the goal of NASA? To slightly favor the NA cars?

... I feel that is the NASA position (to) Make all cars close, but if anything try and favor the NA cars. If that is the position, that is fine and probably makes sense.

Jim

The immediate goal was to get the cars as close to each other as possible (by slowing the 99) with the same level of talent behind the wheel.

SIDE NOTE: The reality is if I got in any 'front running 99' and that driver got in my mid-pack 1.6 they'd still kick my butt by a Memphis mile. So, measuring a 'cars parody' is tough when the majority of the talent drive 99's (no offense to NA drivers)... Really, I thought coming up with a rule would be easy - BOY was I wrong!!

Thanks John...

And that Jersey shore is like a dam train wreck.. It is very hard to look away [Frown] After 6 months of Bennett making fun of my wife and I for being from Jersey, we watched it. [Confused]

They do not represent "The Jersey Shore". That is one city (Seaside)filled with the trashiest of what Staten Island and the rest of New York have to offer. [Big Grin] It has always been that way, even when the Jersey Shore was my familiar stomping ground some 25 years ago, we never went to Seaside, we knew better. Jersey has some of the nicest beaches and real estate in the country by the way.

--------------------
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[/qb][/QUOTE]Thanks John...

And that Jersey shore is like a dam train wreck.. It is very hard to look away [Frown] After 6 months of Bennett making fun of my wife and I for being from Jersey, we watched it. [Confused]

They do not represent "The Jersey Shore". That is one city (Seaside)filled with the trashiest of what Staten Island and the rest of New York have to offer. [Big Grin] It has always been that way, even when the Jersey Shore was my familiar stomping ground some 25 years ago, we never went to Seaside, we knew better. Jersey has some of the nicest beaches and real estate in the country by the way. [/QB][/QUOTE]


Come On Jim you mean you weren't a fist pumping JUICE HEAD! [laughing] First and last time a tease you about Jersey! But I certainly will tell a very funny story about me and the wife's travel through Jersey sometime off line! [Big Grin]

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
I do tend to use "?" where there should be periods, you use to many exclamation points. ( I edited them out above for both of us.) [Big Grin]

Thanks you are right

--------------------
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