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Author Topic: F1 spoiler/ what do you think about contact?
wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Give it up, dude.

Dusty Bottoms Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Juan Pineda:


My theory is that Webber went into that situation with the knowledge that in terms of points, he was better off risking and accepting contact than letting Vettel by. So he had already decided he was going to stick it out no matter what. That's why he was so aggressive about.

-Juan

I can see that happening. I understand what your argument is now. I agree it is very possible that he had made up his mind before the race that if Vettel raced him hard then he'd risk contact and this just happened to be an opportunity. [yep]

Something else to ponder: team orders.
Everyone is astounded that Red Bull seem to be favoring Vettel. If RB told Webber to allow Vettel in code (save fuel...or whatever code) and Webber did not allow it then yeah, the team would be pissed off.

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Jonathan Christian Verified Driver
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wouldnt be the first time Vettel took out Webber...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiJYXj6AXkM

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The thing about this whole issue is in the past
team-mate collisions with championship implications were not unusual. The most memorable one I remember was the 1989 Japanese Grand Prix where Ayrton Senna hit Alain Prost in the chicane with 7 laps to go. Prost got out of his car and was yelling at Ayrton. Ayrton played the game got the workers to push start his car and won the race. FIA later ruled the push start illegal and Alain Prost won the championship.

Dennis

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It is a racing incident which means that both drivers share in the blame. Webber knew he was slower and had asked the team to ask Seb to back off. The team said no therefore they were being allowed to race. Seb had the momentum and committed to the pass. That is the key thing to remember. Once he committed he couldn't back out. If you watch the video he moved right most likely because his left side tires were on the paint and he would never make the braking zone that way. Webber choose a patented Alonzo line on Seb and it ended in tears for the team. You have to know when to give up and you have to know when to make the other guy realize he has to give up. If you are team mates you would expect the other guy understands that. The best news for F1 IMHO is that the team was actually letting the guys race...

Further, the whole Webber is hard to pass thing really means Webber drives dirty. He took a blocking line when he knew he had been caught out. In the same way that you have to be willing to turn in on someone that hasn't made the pass, you have to be willing to leave room for someone that has made the pass. The fact that it was Webbers front to Sebs rear is all the information you need to determine it was a racing incident and both drivers are at fault. The fact that they are team mates is only a complicating factor...

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quote:
Originally posted by Dusty Bottoms:
Something else to ponder: team orders.
Everyone is astounded that Red Bull seem to be favoring Vettel. If RB told Webber to allow Vettel in code (save fuel...or whatever code) and Webber did not allow it then yeah, the team would be pissed off.

Dusty, Your question is really on point. The team told Webber: "Vettel is quicker than you." Is that code enough?

My first thought when I saw the crash was that Vettel had expected Webber to cooperate, and that's why he moved right once he was in the lead. Obviously, they would want to take the fast line around the next turn to stay as far ahead of the McLarens as possible, despite their exchange.

I think that was probably the agreed script within the team, to ensure a safe exchange in the event that one or the other tried get by. Vettel was simply following it, expecting Webber to do the same.

This is why the team was so sympathetic to Vettel after the crash, hugging him publicly when he went to talk to them on the pit wall. I also think this is why Vettel was signing that Webber was crazy as he walked off. Webber was driving irrationally, so it appeared.

The degree that Webber was protecting was a sign that he had gone cowboy. It would seem naive for Vettel to press on, rather than improvise. On the other hand, he was doing exactly what the team expected of him. At that age, learning to turn the wheel comes easier that judging character.

Johathan, That interview with Webber after that previous crash with Vettel was a riot!

Casey, Good points. Saw your post after composing mine.

-Juan

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quote:
Originally posted by Casey Z:
Further, the whole Webber is hard to pass thing really means Webber drives dirty. He took a blocking line when he knew he had been caught out.

While I agree that Weber is notorously hard to pass. I don't believe he was dirty in the slightest in this instance? We obviously don't know what Webers intentions were.. I think his intentions were to hold his line, give enough room for vettel, but just enough.( dirty would be to move right and put him to the grass, that didnt happen) So when Vettel went into the corner, he would obviously run wide and Weber could easily go back under. We never realy got to see Webers intention as Vettel decided to make his own room early on.

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Vick Verified Driver
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On a lighter note, why did the camera go to Nicole Scherzinger after the incident?

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Why not?

Motor City Hamilton
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quote:
Originally posted by Vick:
On a lighter note, why did the camera go to Nicole Scherzinger after the incident?

When good things like that happen, why ask why. Just enjoy the view.

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quote:
Originally posted by Motor City Hamilton:
quote:
Originally posted by Vick:
On a lighter note, why did the camera go to Nicole Scherzinger after the incident?

When good things like that happen, why ask why. Just enjoy the view.
Did anyone hear her interview before the race? It made my head hurt.

Back on topic, the red bull boys need to sort things out fast. Weber was predictable, Vettel assumed his team mate would help him out with the pass, and what we have here is a failure to communicate.

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When you don't follow your own rules of engagement (mr. team captain,) that's not exactly being predictable. That's a psych. And an especially dirty trick vs. your teammate.

Anybody else pick up on Webber lifting off the throttle as Vettel nosed ahead? It's happens about .7 seconds before they touch, and about 4 seconds before they arrive at the braking point.

Nicole: run away Lewis, there's still time!

-Juan

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quote:
Originally posted by Vick:

Back on topic, the Red Bull boys need to sort things out fast. Weber was predictable, Vettel assumed his team mate would help him out with the pass, and what we have here is a failure to communicate. [/QB]

Finally, after 2 pages and 60 posts, the last sentence above nails this 'racing deal'.
The team was 100% at fault for allowing this "failure to communicate" to play out by not having established set protocol and procedures between their drivers.
All the above must be established before the season starts; they (Marko & Hoerner) put their own team at risk by allowing their phenom young lad (while under race pressure) to tangle with his cagey ole sabre tooth team mate. Forget about "the coded" radio transmission on fuel and pace; set procedures means " Vettel WILL pass YOU this lap".
Everyone in the F1 paddock knows how Webber races, no one gets by easy, especially when battling for the race lead and while he's fighting for the World Championship. Clear orders are in play on McLaren and Ferrari depending on individual race situations. That deal was RB managements fault for putting their super fast but still young and prone to be ratteled rock star driver in a bad place.

Having said the above, the actual 'on track' mistake was all on Vettel who turned into Webber before the braking point. As someone else said, had he kept to his straight inside line, he might have boxed Webber out under braking for the upcoming lefthander.
All on Vettel who forced the pass and surprisingly didn't take both cars out. Webber was actually clean as could be, giving his team mate enough room to lose his mind and hang himself.
Canada will be interesting as these two have the field under control and this "deal" will repeat itself.

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quote:
Originally posted by guest driver:
quote:
Originally posted by Vick:

Back on topic, the Red Bull boys need to sort things out fast. Weber was predictable, Vettel assumed his team mate would help him out with the pass, and what we have here is a failure to communicate.

Finally, after 2 pages and 60 posts, the last sentence above nails this 'racing deal'.
The team was 100% at fault for allowing this "failure to communicate" to play out by not having established set protocol and procedures between their drivers.
All the above must be established before the season starts; they (Marko & Hoerner) put their own team at risk by allowing their phenom young lad (while under race pressure) to tangle with his cagey ole sabre tooth team mate. Forget about "the coded" radio transmission on fuel and pace; set procedures means " Vettel WILL pass YOU this lap".
Everyone in the F1 paddock knows how Webber races, no one gets by easy, especially when battling for the race lead and while he's fighting for the World Championship. Clear orders are in play on McLaren and Ferrari depending on individual race situations. That deal was RB managements fault for putting their super fast but still young and prone to be ratteled rock star driver in a bad place.

Having said the above, the actual 'on track' mistake was all on Vettel who turned into Webber before the braking point. As someone else said, had he kept to his straight inside line, he might have boxed Webber out under braking for the upcoming lefthander.
All on Vettel who forced the pass and surprisingly didn't take both cars out. Webber was actually clean as could be, giving his team mate enough room to lose his mind and hang himself.
Canada will be interesting as these two have the field under control and this "deal" will repeat itself. [/QB]

Spot on.. all except having field under control.. McClaren will likely have the bull by the horns in Canada with the long straights
Jim

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Jim Drago
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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
[/QB]

Spot on.. all except having field under control.. McClaren will likely have the bull by the horns in Canada with the long straights
Jim [/QB][/QUOTE]


that young "bull" will be snorting fast at Montreal, next 3 races are make it or break it for him in the W.C.
Ham'n Eggs ain't got a chance, will probably crash out duking it toe to toe with our esteemed Mr. Webber for P-2
[Smile]
pretty boy Jensen will finish P-2 and ma boy Nando will finish P-3.

Dusty Bottoms Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Vick:
quote:
Originally posted by Motor City Hamilton:
quote:
Originally posted by Vick:
On a lighter note, why did the camera go to Nicole Scherzinger after the incident?

When good things like that happen, why ask why. Just enjoy the view.
Did anyone hear her interview before the race? It made my head hurt.


+1!

--------------------
"Your victory is tainted! Asterisk! Asterisk!!!"--Lisa Simpson

 
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