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Author Topic: Should the 90-93 Cars (1.6) be in a separate Class?
guest driver
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Nah, Jim is right.
"You should not expect to be competitive (top 3) in a 1.6 with less than 120 at any National race".
BUT, what does that really mean in todays real world;
2006 HP numbers are NOT relevant to todays (February 27, 2010) reality. Back then prep shops worked under an entirely different rules interpretation and implementation concerning motors and related peripherals.
Cams, heads, AFM's, manifolds, clutches, fuels, etc, etc were developed and built to whatever spec each and every pro builder across the land interpreted was within the then allowable parameters of tech and the GCR. Heck, Larry S & Chet W were seeing 124/108 from their Georgia peaches waaay back in 2003, with pump fuel to boot! And they were all "tech shed legal". Try running those motors at the RunOffs this year.

I repeat, finding 122/107 LEGALLY in a 1.6, is not "reasonably attainable or achievable" for 90% of the 1.6 field TODAY, under the current rules, regardless of your pen stroke. Further, how in the world could you be competitive anyway against the 128/117 + (closer to 130/118) coming out of the top '99's being raced today (so far in 2010), under the current rules, by all those top flite pro level drivers.
(at least one of the above finally came out the closet and went full time Pro this year [Big Grin] ,
one less to contend with in Spec Miata).
Lets please keep things in real world perspective when we categorize the 1.6 model today.
Forget about growing the class, or splitting the class, we should be trying to maintain the present numbers in existence for the next couple of years.
peace out.

West Coast Frankie
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Y'all should spend some time in kart land before you decide that splitting the class or opening the doors to allow more mods on the 1.6s to make them faster will be the cure. In karting, too many classes makes for itty bitty fields with the same few people at every single event, and too much leeway in tech drives away the drivers who have other interests, like work, families and what not.

The most successful kart class, in terms of size of fields, is a sealed engine class. Unfortunately, the politics between the certified builders are intense and no one really trusts them. In addition, the manufacturer routinely implements upgrades which ends up obsoleting the old engines every couple of years.

So think twice before splitting the class or allowing the 1.6s to be highly modified to catch the '99s. Stick with the original plan of setting the standard to the 1.6 and adjusting the tech on the other models to reach parity. If you do that, you'll convince those who have unlimited funds and think they are on the ladder to a professional motorsports career to go someplace else.

--------------------
Bones heal, chicks dig scars, pain is temporary, glory is forever.
--Evel Kneivel

Rich Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by West Coast Frankie:
Y'all should spend some time in kart land before you decide that splitting the class or opening the doors to allow more mods on the 1.6s to make them faster will be the cure. In karting, too many classes makes for itty bitty fields with the same few people at every single event,

This problem is rampant in club racing in general, the last thing we need is yet another class to dilute the talent, dollars, and track time even further.

Not to mention, the 1.6 is competitive with the current rules. [Smile]

--------------------
Rich Wiese

Spec Wrecker Ford

cintibob
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I drive a 1.6L miata it has a bone stock engine not one from a pro builder. It has 110 hp on the dyno 101 torque. I had a mechanic tune the AFM the car is scaled, aligned, stock hats and the engine has 3-4% leakdown and about 15 hours on the engine.I know I should have the head freshened but I run 2;48:to 2:50. at Sebring, fast enough. I run in ita with a spec miata my co driver runs in sm we run where we expect to, middle to bottom. If we redid the head maybe we would stay mid pack but how fast do I want to go for the money I have? There is always someone who can spend more money to find the extra power or someone who can drive faster with a slower car or someone who has both ability, money and a good crew. Its racing, someone always has an edge if you want to stay at the front spend spend spend practice practice then spend some more.I just want to race the guys beside me and have some fun whether at the back or the middle. It just seems the guys with the resources, talent and time in the car are at the front no matter what they drive one guy has the advantage one day someone else the next.

Z-ville Racing Club Verified Driver
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So, if you have a 1.6 that is relatively well sorted with all but the pro engine, do you make the $$ commitment for the engine? Is it worth spending the money on the 1.6 or move on to a 99?

With all the 1.6's listed is anyone able to sell a 1.6?

I guess the answer is how much do I want to spend...

So it does seem to have segregated the class; 99's, pro motors, non-pro motors.

Ok, well...never mind....

Rich Verified Driver
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Yes, it's worth it to put a good engine in a 1.6. Even with my nearly-negligent preparation for races (By Drago standards, anyway), I was/am able to run at the pointy end of the field. So are many others, especially the ones who are willing/able to put in the same amount of setup and dyno work as the front-running '99 people do.

--------------------
Rich Wiese

Spec Wrecker Ford

Eric Barbaric Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by cintibob:
I drive a 1.6L miata it has a bone stock engine not one from a pro builder. It has 110 hp on the dyno 101 torque. I had a mechanic tune the AFM the car is scaled, aligned, stock hats and the engine has 3-4% leakdown and about 15 hours on the engine.I know I should have the head freshened but I run 2;48:to 2:50. at Sebring, fast enough. I run in ita with a spec miata my co driver runs in sm we run where we expect to, middle to bottom. If we redid the head maybe we would stay mid pack but how fast do I want to go for the money I have? There is always someone who can spend more money to find the extra power or someone who can drive faster with a slower car or someone who has both ability, money and a good crew. Its racing, someone always has an edge if you want to stay at the front spend spend spend practice practice then spend some more.I just want to race the guys beside me and have some fun whether at the back or the middle. It just seems the guys with the resources, talent and time in the car are at the front no matter what they drive one guy has the advantage one day someone else the next.

This dude and I are representative of the vast, vast majority of the class. Keep the class accessible and fun for guys like us and it'll all be good. That said, it does bother me that the class is tarnished by rough driving and cheating. The cars are very good and nimble. We don't need to lean on each other to prove our manhood. And if you need to cheat your way to the pointy end, shame on you and and your small weenie.

Chris Haldeman
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quote:
Originally posted by Eric Barbaric:
quote:
Originally posted by cintibob:
I drive a 1.6L miata it has a bone stock engine not one from a pro builder. It has 110 hp on the dyno 101 torque. I had a mechanic tune the AFM the car is scaled, aligned, stock hats and the engine has 3-4% leakdown and about 15 hours on the engine.I know I should have the head freshened but I run 2;48:to 2:50. at Sebring, fast enough. I run in ita with a spec miata my co driver runs in sm we run where we expect to, middle to bottom. If we redid the head maybe we would stay mid pack but how fast do I want to go for the money I have? There is always someone who can spend more money to find the extra power or someone who can drive faster with a slower car or someone who has both ability, money and a good crew. Its racing, someone always has an edge if you want to stay at the front spend spend spend practice practice then spend some more.I just want to race the guys beside me and have some fun whether at the back or the middle. It just seems the guys with the resources, talent and time in the car are at the front no matter what they drive one guy has the advantage one day someone else the next.

This dude and I are representative of the vast, vast majority of the class. Keep the class accessible and fun for guys like us and it'll all be good. That said, it does bother me that the class is tarnished by rough driving and cheating. The cars are very good and nimble. We don't need to lean on each other to prove our manhood. And if you need to cheat your way to the pointy end, shame on you and and your small weenie.
+1

 
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