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Author Topic: springfield dyno radiators
Matt Reynolds
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Region: Southwest
Car #: 74
Year : 1999
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Disappointed at the quality of the product and the support. Wish there was another system out there.

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Reynolds Brothers Racing/Prodigy Motorsports/Race Engineering/Carbotech Brakes

Steven Holloway Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Blue Eyes, Aquarius, hates being squeezed to the grass in SowDiv!

Region: Lonestar
Car #: 97
Year : 91
Posts: 740
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I'm very happy with the CX racing radiator I got off ebay.
Can't speak to customer service because I haven't needed to call them.
With the big radiator and Mazda thermostat I've yet to see temps go over 192, even @ MSR in June.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's got electrical problems.

Dr.Dan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
V8, nice! And good for you too!

Region: san francisco region
Car #: 39
Year : 90
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark de Regt:
 -

I think Mark has an infatuation. or is it me?

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Daniel Mairani DDS...still here, just faster.
http://www.DanielMairanidds.com

Dusty Bottoms Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
99 all the way!

Region: Lone Star
Year : 1990
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Dan:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark de Regt:
 -

I think Mark has an infatuation. or is it me?
She makes it worthwhile to watch the Nanny Diaries. [thumbsup]

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"Your victory is tainted! Asterisk! Asterisk!!!"--Lisa Simpson

Mark de Regt Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: NWR/Oregon; ICSCC
Car #: 70
Year : 1991
Posts: 1111
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Dan:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark de Regt:
 -

I think Mark has an infatuation. or is it me?
And is there something wrong with that? [Smile]

Marc Hoover
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Region: AZ/SF
Car #: 98
Year : 94
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I had the guy who repaired Dr Dans radiator build a radiator using the mounts off another failed SD unit.Cost is 650.00.He uses a much better core made out of thicker material.I plan on using these and keeping some on hand.

Marc Hoover

Dr.Dan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
V8, nice! And good for you too!

Region: san francisco region
Car #: 39
Year : 90
Posts: 1800
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark de Regt:
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Dan:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark de Regt:
 -

I think Mark has an infatuation. or is it me?
And is there something wrong with that? [Smile]
Not at all Mark
I just got a new one to try from c&r racing in Indy. Designed specifically for a miata. we'll see how that works.

--------------------
Daniel Mairani DDS...still here, just faster.
http://www.DanielMairanidds.com

Astro Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Car #: 87
Year : 1990
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How much is the C&R radiator? I had a SD and was running 172 degrees in a 3 hour enduro but crashed last weekend so I need a new radiator. What temps do people see with the C&R unit?

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David Spencer
1990 Miata - #87 SM

Chris Haldeman
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Region: texas
Car #: 71,72
Year : 1990,1999
Posts: 166
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how about isc racing's cross flow radiator?anybody try one?

Jay Lutz
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Region: Indy
Car #: 33
Year : 1994
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I have the only C&R radiator installed to date (although others have been ordered) I believe and I ran it in 50F weather at Gateway in March.......with a thermostat...so of course it performed exactly as expected. I'll be running it again at the June Sprints so anyone who would like to take a look at it at Road America is welcome. Dr. Dan has unit # 2. , Jay

[ 06-02-2010, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Drago ]

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"In our sport if you go out of bounds you're most likely not coming back" Michael Waltrip

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Year : 1992
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I ran an ISC radiator this weekend at Homestead where the temps were in the low 90's with a track temp over a 100. The temps were consistently 180-185 in qualifying and races and would drop to 175 when I was doing a cool down lap.

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Paul McLester

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I guess the thing I don't understand is why people can't believe that the CXracing inexpensive radiators work and keep the car just as cool as the $600 radiators. In my own car I use one and my friends car uses the ISC racing which is what I would have bought if the CXracing hadn't worked as it is $200 less than the SD's, C&R, etc.

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Paul McLester

cintibob
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Region: cfr
Car #: 13
Year : 1990
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Gatoratty, what temp thermostat are you running? Probably not a 180.

Mark de Regt Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Year : 1991
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Without getting involved in the substance of this thread, it might bear noting that

(i) Different gauges measure temperature quite differently (I have two temperature gauges, sampling within an inch of each other, and they often vary by 10 degrees); and

(ii) Whether you measure at the front or the back of the block makes as much as a ten degree difference.

IMO, it's all but meaningless for someone to say "my car was running at x degrees" without at least knowing where he/she was sampling, and what kind of gauge it is.

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Autometer mechanical gauge with an adapter in the top radiator hose on my car which has the CXracing radiator. The car I borrowed this weekend was using the ISC radiator and also had an autometer mech gauge and adapter in the top radiator hose. I don't have a clue what thermostat was in the car this weekend or in mine.

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Paul McLester

Mitch Taylor
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Region: FLA
Car #: 97
Year : 1990
Posts: 76
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I dont need no stinking guages.

David Dewhurst
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Does the ISC radiator continue to be a Howe modified by ISC?

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Have Fun [Wink]

David Dewhurst
CenDiv
Milwaukee Region
Spec Miata #14

Marc Hoover
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Car #: 98
Year : 94
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Top radiator hose is radiator hose temp not cylinder head temp which is always higher,sometimes by a significant amount.If you are using a thermostat your are on the wrong side of it.

Steven Holloway Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Blue Eyes, Aquarius, hates being squeezed to the grass in SowDiv!

Region: Lonestar
Car #: 97
Year : 91
Posts: 740
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I'm running 192 at the back of the head, in June, in Texas, in 106 degree heat, under my canopy, at MSRHouston. With the CX Racing radiator.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's got electrical problems.

RazerX
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Region: CA Northern
Car #: 511
Year : 90
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where is the 'best' place to tap in the back of the head for a temp sender?

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David

David Dewhurst
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Dave Wheeler at Advanced Autosports 1-608-313-1230 has an aluminum tem gauge adaptor for the heater hose that comes from the rear of the head. He also has a larger adaptor for the hose from the thermostat to the radiator.

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Have Fun [Wink]

David Dewhurst
CenDiv
Milwaukee Region
Spec Miata #14

RazerX
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Region: CA Northern
Car #: 511
Year : 90
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thx, have one in a adapter in the hose and considering moving it to the back of the head

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David

Dr.Dan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
V8, nice! And good for you too!

Region: san francisco region
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Year : 90
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quote:
Originally posted by Jay Lutz:
I have the only C&R radiator installed to date (although others have been ordered) I believe and I ran it in 50F weather at Gateway in March.......with a thermostat...so of course it performed exactly as expected. I'll be running it again at the June Sprints so anyone who would like to take a look at it at Road America is welcome. Dr. Dan has unit # 2. It's the same price as the SD radiator but is designed to out perform the SD with far better durability/reliability....like the SD it's a cross flow not a down flow like the Koyo 53mm. Call David Bridges at C&R for more technical questions....tell him I sent you if you don't mind! The 99-2005 unit is in the prototype stage but will soon be completed. Thanks, Jay

I'll be using mine for the first time at Infineon end of june. I'll post results. should be warm by then.

--------------------
Daniel Mairani DDS...still here, just faster.
http://www.DanielMairanidds.com

Connie 62 Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Year : 91
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I just picked up a bottle of NAPA Radiator Anti-Rust. The description on the back of the bottle read: Stops rust and electrolytic or "battery" type corrosion.

Since this type of corrosion has been associated with many of the failures of the Springfield Dyno radiator, perhaps this type of product might help.

I have not read the entire thread, so please excuse if this solution has been presented previously.

--------------------
Jim Thill
#11 SSM
#3 ITA
Thrillz Racing

fastbrewer
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Region: Utah
Car #: 93
Year : 1996
Posts: 83
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Resurrection time!

I'm curious how the C&R radiators are doing now that it is summer? Are the ones installed dual pass?

Also Dean, you mentioned a Ron davis dual pass. Would that fit in the typical SM arrangement or did you modify the front mountings and fan locations to much for the LS1 to fit? Is it a thinner radiator or thicker?

I'm asking because this last weekend here in Utah was HOT!! 109º ambient in the shade, track temps well over 130º. We are at altitude and it is pretty dry air.

The guys using the SD's were getting temps in the 190-200ºrange. I was at 210º by myself and if I even got close to someone temps would spike quickly (230+º). I am using the CXracing ebay radiator, temp measurement is mechanical at the upper hose. as well as logging from the stock sensor. I need something that won't spike so quickly in traffic so it's either the SD, C&R, or the custom Ron Davis. This open core isn't working as well as I want it to. The price is nice though and it can be a good spare.

Thanks,
-Jon

TR6
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Car #: 500
Year : 2002
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I ran my CX Racing radiator in June at TWS while the amibient temps were mid/upper 90's. Water temp (measured at back of head) held at 190-195 no matter whether I was following someone or not. However, a couple of weeks earlier, I was seeing higher temps (210 running alone). The problem turned out to be my screen in front of the radiator. The mesh was too small and was apparently blocking some airflow. I switched to a larger mesh and the temps immediately dropped. For what it's worth, I'm running without a thermostat.

--------------------
Greg H.
2002 red Miata #500
Denton, Texas

Todd Green Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Year : 1990
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quote:

Also Dean, you mentioned a Ron davis dual pass.

I'm asking because this last weekend here in Utah was HOT!! 109º ambient in the shade, track temps well over 130º. We are at altitude and it is pretty dry air.

At the same race, I was 210 alone and 220 close to someone. Ron Davis. Model type? The one that came with the car. [Wink] Measuring point? Wherever the builder put it. [Wink]

Feel free to take a look at my car, but I'm not super thrilled on the performance and would be really interested in hearing about the C&R radiators as well. I don't think we could go to a bigger mesh and survive the number of stones being chucked at our track. [Wink]

fastbrewer
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Region: Utah
Car #: 93
Year : 1996
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This morning when I posted my first comment I hadn't looked at my data aq. I just did and found that the recorded temps from the stock sensor were mostly hovering around 200 and when in traffic at 205-207º. I tied into that signal and calibrated it to my track mate using my OBD2 port so that I could record without adding another sensor to the hoses.

My mechanical gauge in the upper radiator hose was definitely showing me 230+ when the temp sensor was showing 205-207. Is it more reliable to trust the stock temp location or the upper hose?

Todd Green Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Just got an email from one of the online vendors about "Newly Redesigned Springfield Dyno just released the latest revision to the most effective radiator in the Spec Miata marketplace."

Did they fix the leaking issues? Still no word on the C&R radiator?

Brian Ghidinelli Verified Driver
Moonwalker

Region: SFR
Car #: 12
Year : 99
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I just came to post the same thing as Todd; the SafeRacer email doesn't say what was revised or if it was for all model years. Here's the full text from:

"Newly Redesigned

Springfield Dyno just released the latest revision to the most effective radiator in the Spec Miata marketplace. There's a reason that so many winners and champions use these radiators, they work better than anything else out there. $599."

FWIW, I installed a new SD at the beginning of this season into my 99 and haven't had any problems with it. However, as mentioned earlier in this thread, my fan shroud touched the fins which I could see leading to vibration/chafing. I ground mine ever so slightly to eliminate the contact and so far no problems.

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MotorsportReg.com / Haag Performance / Team SafeRacer
2010 San Francisco Region SMT Champion

springfielddyno Verified Driver
Runoffs "MOVE OF THE RACE" (headlights)

Region: Ozark Mountain Region
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Year : 96, 93
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brian... all years changed.
todd... change is not cooling related, but is to allow for thermal expansion better, and perhaps some chassis flex? The leaks were reported by a small percentage of racers. However, I hope this eliminates those completely, and that's the goal of the changes...

I still recommend finding a way to mount/isolate in rubber for electrical and mechanical reasons. Those were the two failure modes noticed.

In order to get them in racer's hands as quick as possible, the new design has limited testing. So if you want 6 sig reliability numbers and don't want to take any chances, my stuff isn't for you. I don't want to be a dork, but performance is my highest priority over ease of install, reliability, etc... I was way more concerned about keeping the ign timing from moving, the fan from coming on, and the temps as low as possible even in the tight draft.

Personally, I'll run the new design in one of my cars and the old design in the other car.

Mods... I'm only attempting to answer questions, but please delete my responce if it doesn't comply with site rules. I will not be offended [Big Grin]

--------------------
Regards,
Sam H.
www.springfielddyno.com

fastbrewer
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Car #: 93
Year : 1996
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I just got off the phone with an engineer at C&R. They are in production with these radiators and plan on having them available full time. It will no longer be a special order piece.

Single pass, Cross flow design with the thick core. They plan on having them out of production and available the week of Aug. 9th, cost quote at $550
Only for the 1990-97 cars

It's good the SD unit has been updated for reliability.

Tyler Dahl Verified Driver Series Champ
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Year : 1991
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I've had good reliability with the SD Radiator but I haven't been having the fantastic cooling that everyone talks about. The past weekend when it was 100+ it worked okay but I ground my fan wire so that it would constantly run and my temps got up to 205, somewhat drafting. The weekend before that I had the fan hooked up normally and by myself it would creep up to 195 on a 90 degree day and as soon as I got anywhere near another car it would go up to 210+. That's not a super hot temp but that isn't the 180 I hear everyone talking about. Any idea's on what to check?

I have a 160 thermostat, distilled water and water wetter

--------------------
Tyler Dahl
Race Engineering
Miatacage.com
Carbotech

suck fumes Verified Driver
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Region: Lonestar
Car #: 75
Year : 3rd in the nation
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a thermostat with a lower degree rating is not a proper way to cool the car. If you think about it, the radiator only does its job if the water stays in the core and cools. If you have a lower degree thermostat, it stays open all the time and the the water is constantly flowing through the hot engine block and the radiator doesn't have time to do its job. Even though it sounds strange, putting a 190deg thermostat in there would actually cool it better and keep it more constant around 200 deg, draft or no draft. Mine never climbs over 200deg.

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THAT JUST HAPPENED!!! -RickyBobby-

PedalFaster Verified Driver
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Year : 1995
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quote:
Originally posted by suck fumes:
a thermostat with a lower degree rating is not a proper way to cool the car. If you think about it, the radiator only does its job if the water stays in the core and cools. If you have a lower degree thermostat, it stays open all the time and the the water is constantly flowing through the hot engine block and the radiator doesn't have time to do its job.

Huh? Both a 160 degree thermostat and an OEM thermostat are open at 200 degrees, so they're functionally equivalent at that temperature. But at 180 degrees, a 160 degree thermostat is open and giving you cooling, while an OEM thermostat is closed and not.

--------------------
Stephen Hui - '95 SM #86, Northwest / Oregon Region SCCA

B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by PedalFaster:
quote:
Originally posted by suck fumes:
a thermostat with a lower degree rating is not a proper way to cool the car. If you think about it, the radiator only does its job if the water stays in the core and cools. If you have a lower degree thermostat, it stays open all the time and the the water is constantly flowing through the hot engine block and the radiator doesn't have time to do its job.

Huh? Both a 160 degree thermostat and an OEM thermostat are open at 200 degrees, so they're functionally equivalent at that temperature. But at 180 degrees, a 160 degree thermostat is open and giving you cooling, while an OEM thermostat is closed and not.
I'm starting to think that the physics of cooling are way different in the South vs. North. Does it really matter what thermostat you run when you always run at 190? Most of the time, I'm sitting at 170-180 and it seems to work just fine.

-bw

--------------------
Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E3 and Under 2 liter Overall Champion
Oregon Region SM Class Advisor

Pat Newton Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Enduro addict

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quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Dahl:
The past weekend when it was 100+ it worked okay but I ground my fan wire so that it would constantly run...

Legal? [duck] [Wink]

--------------------
Crew Chief, 3D Racing #64, aka Team Scrappy 2.0
3rd place E2, 2009 25 Hours of Thunderhill

Crew Chief, EGR/Miller Motorsports #64, aka Team Scrappy
E2 Champions, 2008 25 Hours of Thunderhill

Tyler Dahl Verified Driver Series Champ
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Region: Utah
Car #: 70
Year : 1991
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No, but not overheating is more important to me. That's why I posted my question.

So does anyone have any suggestions on anything to check or change?

My grill screen is 1/4" SS mesh from pegasus racing and I have the top sealed and the belly pan in place.

[ 07-23-2010, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: Tyler Dahl ]

--------------------
Tyler Dahl
Race Engineering
Miatacage.com
Carbotech

PedalFaster Verified Driver
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Region: Northwest
Car #: 86
Year : 1995
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quote:
Originally posted by B Wilson:
Does it really matter what thermostat you run when you always run at 190?

My understanding is that the OEM thermostat is still closed at 190 degrees.

quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Dahl:
does anyone have any suggestions on anything to check or change?

My grill screen is 1/4" SS mesh from pegasus racing

That sounds to be on the tight side -- I could swear I read somewhere (Wheeler's guide?) that mesh that tight would impede airflow. My car's got 1/2" mesh.

--------------------
Stephen Hui - '95 SM #86, Northwest / Oregon Region SCCA

 
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