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Author Topic: Crashing at the Runoffs.
springfielddyno Verified Driver
Runoffs "MOVE OF THE RACE" (headlights)

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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Anzaldi:
we'll assume you meant...peace out.

now that"s funny! Finally something made me laugh about this thread...

--------------------
Regards,
Sam H.
www.springfielddyno.com

KRS
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Anzaldi:
we'll assume you meant...peace out.

Absolutley correct!

Mike Anzaldi
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and we'll assume you meant...absolutely.

--------------------
Mike

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I take it you are talking about me not showing up for the runoffs. It is a good thing I couldn't or your son would have been pushed back another position. Not a mistake I will make in the future. Piece out! [/QB][/QUOTE]

We will see, just don't forget to bring your 1.6 car. And I didn't order a illegal motor dude. That is not cool. [yep]

Pat

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

JMorris
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quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
I take it you are talking about me not showing up for the runoffs. It is a good thing I couldn't or your son would have been pushed back another position. Not a mistake I will make in the future. Piece out!

We will see, just don't forget to bring your 1.6 car. And I didn't order a illegal motor dude. That is not cool. [yep]

Pat [/QB][/QUOTE]

So your saying Stewart built it that way without your knowledge? I haven't heard of any other ported Stewart motors, I wonder how you ended up with the only one? Must have been a mistake [Wink]

So did you order a ported cylinder head or did Stewart just send you one without your knowledge? Someone knew?

It is strange how many people get caught with illegal parts in their cars and have no idea how they got there? [Roll Eyes]

J~

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

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quote:
Originally posted by KRS:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Anzaldi:
we'll assume you meant...peace out.

Absolutley correct!
Sorry spelling police but I am on an iphone and it fills in the words sometimes; but yes Peace out [Wink]

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Tucker:
quote:
Originally posted by KRS:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Anzaldi:
we'll assume you meant...peace out.

Absolutley correct!
Sorry spelling police but I am on an iphone and it fills in the words sometimes; but yes Peace Out [Wink]
Thanks for the correction!


--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Thats what I am saying J Morris. Not a chance in hell I would order a motor with a ported head. No way. From what I saw when we were at the sprints, I would say ported would be a stretch. We didn't even get DQed. Check the records. Not to make excuses, it was non Compliant and I took our lumps for it.

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Anzaldi:
and we'll assume you meant...absolutely.

Your pretty quick!! If you drive as good as you spell we are all in trouble. Now if you could only correct Von Cs spelling; now that would be a trick. [yep]

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
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2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

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quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
Thats what I am saying J Morris. Not a chance in hell I would order a motor with a ported head. No way. From what I saw when we were at the sprints, I would say ported would be a stretch. We didn't even get DQed. Check the records. Not to make excuses, it was non Compliant and I took our lumps for it.

Pat if I were you I would just drop it. What you are claiming is not the case and you are putting one of the best SM engine builders in a very bad light. You did not take your lumps and you continue trying to deny that you knew the engine was illegal prior to going to the sprints; which is BS. Drag this out if you want but that would not be my choice.

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Mike Anzaldi
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Tucker:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Anzaldi:
and we'll assume you meant...absolutely.

Your pretty quick!! If you drive as good as you spell we are all in trouble. Now if you could only correct Von Cs spelling; now that would be a trick. [yep]
dude, i'm not even sure von c is typing in english.

--------------------
Mike

mr von charbonneau
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hey ron the republican [thumbsup] I think your big ass mirror caused that wreck [laughing]

mr von charbonneau
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this is how all wrecks happen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB_JCUw9SoU

mr von charbonneau
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Hey pat when i heard this song thuoght of you
http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/2/4925/5.html#000213

guest driver
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quote:
Originally posted by mr von charbonneau:
this is how all wrecks happen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB_JCUw9SoU

well ... now that you mentioned it, she kinda does look like Jeff in his red car ...
[duck]
[flamed]

Ron Alan Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by mr von charbonneau:
Hey pat when i heard this song thuoght of you
http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/2/4925/5.html#000213

[rolling on floor laughin] [rolling on floor laughin] [rolling on floor laughin] [rolling on floor laughin]

Champ...check what you cut and paste to make sure you have what you want [laughing] Waiting with anticipation for the correct link [rockband]

I found that video post on the web...closest I've gotten to RA is this computer. So that big ass mirror belongs to whoever posted that video... [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

Spell check on this forum hasn't worked for me in awhile...anyone else have this problem?

--------------------
-RA


"Happy birthday, I didn't get you a present...Oh, mom got you one? Well, that's from me then too, unless it's shitty."
9:52 AM Sep 14th, 2009 via web
http://twitter.com/shitmydadsays

mr von charbonneau
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soory hey pat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rvLeCMTofE

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Anzaldi:
go fly a kite.

Post less.

--------------------
It really makes my week when nobody crashes into me.

Mike Anzaldi
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Anzaldi:
go fly a kite.

Post less.
go fly a

--------------------
Mike

Mike LL
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I've been following this thread to see other racers conclusions about the wrecks. I'm trying to learn so I can teach my son, along with other racers teaching him. I have come to one conclusion from reading the different views on Mike's crash. Racing is a lot like football, when a penalty is called on a touchdown, one group of fans will see it there way and the other teams fans will see it the other way. They both have good points, but they can honestly see it two different ways. Another point is it is hard to see everything from an in-car cam. When the race is shown on Speedcast tv, there may or may not be some light shined on all of the crashes. One thing is for shure, you need thick skin to race Spec Miata, along with some serious talent to be up front, I'm glad this is the class we chose. [thumbsup]

--------------------
Mike Lliteras
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NASA FL

Colin MacLean Verified Driver
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If anyone is trying to learn anything from these videos there's only one thing to learn. Look at what was happening on track and don't do anything like that. Ever. There was a fundamental lack of respect for fellow competitors that I hope we never see again.

--------------------
Colin MacLean
Flyin' MacLean Motorsports

Scott Zetterstrom Verified Driver
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quote:
If anyone is trying to learn anything from these videos there's only one thing to learn. Look at what was happening on track and don't do anything like that. Ever. There was a fundamental lack of respect for fellow competitors that I hope we never see again.
+1!

--------------------
#13 SSM
ME Solutions LLC
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Muda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
ComingToAMirrorNearYou

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They all just could have been texting? [Eek!]

--------------------
Muda Motorsports
"We're all here 'cause we're not all there."

Mike LL
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There is a lot to be said about learning what not to do. And I would rather him learn it from somebody else, then from his own experiences.

--------------------
Mike Lliteras
Sponsor, Mechanic, Owner and Dad
NASA FL

Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Mike,

Exactly. Better to learn from someone else's bent fender. TV is great source. Club racing videos better. There is always something to learn about what the driver could have done better. While arguing fault is helpful (and sometimes amusing,) it should not be the only take-away. Being in the right, does not help your race when you are sideways in the runoff. And there is a wide variation between different racing organizations and cultures for what is right or acceptable.

Look for the reasons why the drivers had a disagreement about a section of pavement, and look to see what different moves they might have made that would have had a higher *probability* of favorable outcome for them. Some drivers have a knack for staying out of trouble, others seem drawn to it. It is not just luck.

-Juan

--------------------
www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
Found sammys video out there in cyber space [Smile]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSfyhhQenK8

OK, hate to bring this up.. But I figured out how to edit my vdeo so now I have to post [Smile]

Not nearly as bad as it seems from the rear IMO. After Sammy Taps me under braking, it messes up his corner ( almost ruins mine and coellos) [duck] After that he runs a little wide and Mark is out there with him. Sammy starts moving right to set up for 13. Labounty comes through 12 and has a small run. From there, you make the call, I am looking for a ten foot pole [Big Grin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3xTjf-84Vo

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

Rich Verified Driver
Oh, that's where that is.

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Everybody should have just gone up the road a ways and played golf that day.

--------------------
Rich Wiese

Spec Wrecker Ford

Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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Amazing what another camera angle reveals! Sheds a whole different light on the incident.

--------------------
Danny
http://www.dannysteyn.com
http://www.adeptstudios.com
OPM Autosports | Traqmate | Rossini Racing Engines
2010 June Sprints Champ, 2010 ARRC SMX Champ
2009 SARRC Champ, 2009 SEDiv ECR Champ, 2009 FES Champ
2008 SEDiv ECR Champ

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny Steyn:
Amazing what another camera angle reveals! Sheds a whole different light on the incident.

I agree Danny, not how it looked from the other in car camera. I think this shot looks to be much more clear as to what happened.

Pat

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
Found sammys video out there in cyber space [Smile]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSfyhhQenK8

OK, hate to bring this up.. But I figured out how to edit my vdeo so now I have to post [Smile]

Not nearly as bad as it seems from the rear IMO. After Sammy Taps me under braking, it messes up his corner ( almost ruins mine and coellos) [duck] After that he runs a little wide and Mark is out there with him. Sammy starts moving right to set up for 13. Labounty comes through 12 and has a small run. From there, you make the call, I am looking for a ten foot pole [Big Grin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3xTjf-84Vo

Thanks for posting the video Drago! If that does not clear it up I don't know what will. Pombo got brake checked (not on purpose) and lost his momentum which allowed Jeff to get a run. Jeff was clearly inside with daylight between all three cars at the 19 second mark and was forced into the grass (again not on purpose). Marks doing all he can to hold a pretty wheel with no room on either side. To me it was just hard racing and bad timing. From that video I would have probably stuck my nose in there as well. Of course the only opinions that really count are those of the drivers that got wrecked.

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Red car *almost* had it. What did him in was the last time that he and the silver car touched, his wheel was jerked by the contact to point into the silver car, and so he drove into him. This is a common hazard of cars touching in a turn, usually front tire to front tire.

Overall, I would have to fault the red car. Sure, he could pull alongside the silver, but it was clear his patch of pavement was rapidly diminishing. The black car had no indication that they were three wide, so the red car should have been on alert that he would likely not have room on the pavement. Red car stayed in it nevertheless, went four off, and he lost control of his car. This was avoidable contact.

--------------------
www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

Dennis Valet
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quote:
Originally posted by Juan Pineda:
Red car *almost* had it. What did him in was the last time that he and the silver car touched, his wheel was jerked by the contact to point into the silver car, and so he drove into him. This is a common hazard of cars touching in a turn, usually front tire to front tire.

Overall, I would have to fault the red car. Sure, he could pull alongside the silver, but it was clear his patch of pavement was rapidly diminishing. The black car had no indication that they were three wide, so the red car should have been on alert that he would likely not have room on the pavement. Red car stayed in it nevertheless, went four off, and he lost control of his car. This was avoidable contact.

How can you not blame the car that is moving over and pinching both cars? Even if he didn't know it was three wide, he's still moving over and pinching the middle car, which is a BS move in itself.

Ron Alan Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis Valet:
quote:
Originally posted by Juan Pineda:
Red car *almost* had it. What did him in was the last time that he and the silver car touched, his wheel was jerked by the contact to point into the silver car, and so he drove into him. This is a common hazard of cars touching in a turn, usually front tire to front tire.

Overall, I would have to fault the red car. Sure, he could pull alongside the silver, but it was clear his patch of pavement was rapidly diminishing. The black car had no indication that they were three wide, so the red car should have been on alert that he would likely not have room on the pavement. Red car stayed in it nevertheless, went four off, and he lost control of his car. This was avoidable contact.

How can you not blame the car that is moving over and pinching both cars? Even if he didn't know it was three wide, he's still moving over and pinching the middle car, which is a BS move in itself.
The question that I need to understand, based on the rules as they are written, is who has the control of the track/line just prior to contact?

If I understand them correctly, since the black car enters the corner ahead and the silver car never completes the pass in the middle of the corner, then the black car maintains control of the line he chooses assuming he leaves racing room for the silver car...which he does(and I'm sure he can't see the red car). The silver car owes the same obligation of racing room to the red car...but as things move to the right and the red car starts to run out of track, I think it is his obligation to back out and tuck back in behind the silver car. Though he(red car)is entitled to racing room, being the last car to stick his nose in the scrum he should have known what may happen. BUT, everyone is racing hard and I completely understand why it's not that easy to 2nd guess each drivers position. In hind sight it's easy to say avoidable, but in real time it's only fair to call it a racing incident...with everyone taking away a little something for next time. [twocents]

--------------------
-RA


"Happy birthday, I didn't get you a present...Oh, mom got you one? Well, that's from me then too, unless it's shitty."
9:52 AM Sep 14th, 2009 via web
http://twitter.com/shitmydadsays

jtsuhr
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quote:
Originally posted by Filthy Phil:
does anybody have video of the mess exiting the kink in lap one?

Check about 2:13 into my in-car video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zjz7uoblkE&feature=related

missed the cars and the wheel [Smile]

--------------------
- Jim Suhr

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Dennis, Ron explains it right between the black and silver cars. They are cool with each other, with the black car leaving room to go side by side with the silver car through that turn. He was not squeezing the silver car.

About racing room for the red car, he was not entitled to it in this case. If it were just him and the sliver car, then he would, as the silver car could move over. However in this case, the red car knowingly went underneath two cars in a way that the outside car likely did not know he was there. As such, he cannot have the expectation that the outside car would leave room for both him and the silver car, and so he should be prepared to back out.

I can understand how one might want to chalk this one up to hard racing. If the red car had pulled it off without losing control and spinning the black car, I might be tempted to give the red car some slack. [Although there is also the view that it would be unfair to take the short cut across the grass.] But I say if you are going to pull a move like that, you better make sure you can do it without losing control of your car and making a mess. And if you make a mess, then you should take your lumps for it.

Moves like this one make for chaos on the track, and should not be considered routinely acceptable.

-Juan

--------------------
www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

jj15ball
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+1
Juan Said it right, if the red car isn't making the low percentage play in a very risky section of track trying to pass the two guys racing each other hard, the whole incident does not happen. The silver car would have had room to move left and a leave enough racing room to the green car who clearly has the right to his line. Further down the track, the silver car then attempts to block the red car and gets spun. Too much adrenaline flowing, big race, big risks, lots of twisted metal to gain what, 2 positions.

Racing with these cars in a sprint, unless you are qualified in the top 5. You really don't have a chance. Top 10 might be able to podium. Everyone else is just driving around the track. Too many cars, good for SCCA but not for SM. It should only be the best of the best racing in the championship because its the championship. Open entries encourages all this chaos, it should be a privaledge to run in the championship, not a right. Its like the PGA, you have to go through Q school to earn your tour card. We should have regional championships winners/runner ups get invited to the big show. So you have a smaller field that races, but everyone there actually has a legitimate shot at the title.

Or, if you don't want to limit entrants, you could whittle down the entrants in subsequent qualifying sessions kinda like F1 where you slowly reduce the number of drivers who can win through smaller group qualifying sessions.
Just my thoughts after studying the video and reading the comments.

--------------------
Jason Ball

mr von charbonneau
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hey jason sorry to say thats every track in the world 14 lap sprint 40 plus cars try spec ford
like i race good luck.

mr von charbonneau
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does golf have bump drafting

bad example
i play golf and i suck shooting in the low 80s

and dont have a chance to win a PGA event

Rich Verified Driver
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No but it does have beer drafting, at least how I play

--------------------
Rich Wiese

Spec Wrecker Ford

Alex Bolanos Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by jtsuhr:
quote:
Originally posted by Filthy Phil:
does anybody have video of the mess exiting the kink in lap one?

Check about 2:13 into my in-car video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zjz7uoblkE&feature=related

missed the cars and the wheel [Smile]

Nice pass under local yellow at 5:52 [Wink]

Cajun Miata Man Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex Bolanos:
quote:
Originally posted by jtsuhr:
quote:
Originally posted by Filthy Phil:
does anybody have video of the mess exiting the kink in lap one?

Check about 2:13 into my in-car video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zjz7uoblkE&feature=related

missed the cars and the wheel [Smile]

Nice pass under local yellow at 5:52 [Wink]
You would think suddenly making up 4 car lengths under braking would have provided a clue.

--------------------
James York


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fishguyaz
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isnt the rule no passing from the yellow flag station until you are passed the incident?
I saw it as clean( the pass was done prior to the flag station), as long as the car was slowed to a controlled speed for the standing yellow(incident off the track surface). if it was a waiving yellow(incident is on the track surface) i might think differently.

--------------------
Josh Pitt
AZ Region

mr von charbonneau
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I agree with fish head pass pass pass go baby go

mr von charbonneau
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fish head driving
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iskx8E5N7MA&feature=related

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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B. YELLOW FLAG (Solid Yellow)
STANDING YELLOW Take care, Danger, Slow Down, NO PASSING FROM THE FLAG until past the emergency area.

That flag was right on top of the emergency area. I'd tend to follow the "Danger, Slow Down" bit of the rule rather than git er done before reaching the flag in a situation like that. On the other hand, I don't race at the runnoffs and don't want to collect my buddies even if it costs me positions.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

mr von charbonneau
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hey kieth my thoughts about your post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE-XACeWxJs
not sure it fits soory ps wee all know daaa?

Muda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by fishguyaz:
I saw it as clean( the pass was done prior to the flag station), as long as the car was slowed to a controlled speed for the standing yellow(incident off the track surface). if it was a waiving yellow(incident is on the track surface) i might think differently.

[thumbsup]

--------------------
Muda Motorsports
"We're all here 'cause we're not all there."

jtsuhr
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I acutally thought it was close when I reviewed video, but the pass was done before the flag. Now, what isn't clear in the video is that while slowing more that usual for the flag I was punted from behind in 12 by the car that passes just past 14. So, was his pass complete before the flag?

--------------------
- Jim Suhr

 
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