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Author Topic: Lesson learned from LeMons
D.B. Cutler Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Huge Member

Region: Detroit
Car #: 5
Year : 1991
Posts: 1029
Status: Offline
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Myself and three friends tried to run this past weekends LeMons race at GingerMan. We showed up with an actual sub $500 Saturn SC2 which promptly blew its engine after 6 laps of the Friday practice.

So the team owner drove to Elgin, IL (150 miles away) to buy another junkyard motor and brought it back. We then proceeded to install it, in the dark with flashlights and when we fired it up, low and behold it too was a bad engine (spun bearing).

So Saturday morning, we went to the organizer and told him our tale of woe and asked for a refund as we felt that we wouldn't be able to take the green. Unlike the SCCA, we were denied a refund and given a lecture. So if you decide to go to one of these races, you are "all in" the moment you mail that check. Their "No Refunds" policy starts right then and not with the green flag.

To finish the story, we drove back to Ann Arbor, pulled the engine, rebuilt another engine, installed the engine and then went back Sunday. The engine blew up 2.5 hours later.

I just wanted to warn you guys as I honestly didn't feel that this was a fair deal and I don't want anyone from this site to run into this. Your not dealing with the SCCA here !!

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: cincy
Car #: 79
Year : 92
Posts: 1495
Status: Offline
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That is way to much work.

pat

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keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

SCCA_Racer
Member

Region: 33 SFR
Year : 1991
Posts: 167
Status: Offline
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That is what you get for trying to use a SC2.

A few of my friends are running a Toyota MK3 at Buttonwillow in December. Hope to have better luck.

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Joshua Fine
SCCA member 323214 since 2003
Novice Permit in 2010
Racing 2011

Kyle Burkhardt
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I think most groups won't issue a refund once your tires hit the track. That's just racing.

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Kyle Burkhardt
NASA Midwest
#12 SM

Mark de Regt Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: NWR/Oregon; ICSCC
Car #: 70
Year : 1991
Posts: 1111
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyle Burkhardt:
I think most groups won't issue a refund once your tires hit the track. That's just racing.

Not to defend LeMons specifically, but I agree. My experience is that you don't get a refund once you've been on track in the event, even if only for a practice session.

I suspect that a significant part of their expenses is insurance, and I suspect that insurance is, to a large extent, a function of car count. So, the minute you hit the track, they're out of pocket for insurance attributable to your participation.

Willie the Tard Verified Driver
Member

Region: NASA Texas
Car #: 8
Year : 92
Posts: 697
Status: Offline
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Most Lemons practice around here is a track thing with a track fee not a Lemons fee

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William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

Region: Houston
Car #: 91
Year : 1991
Posts: 2171
Status: Offline
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Good heads up... read the rules, understand the culture, understand the management.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Shop Teacher
Member

Region: SF Nor Cal
Car #: #39
Year : 1990
Posts: 457
Status: Offline
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Practices are not part of the race, you pay extra to run the practice day. We had the same problem with a chump race. We were told that the race was being held on the big oval in So Cal. It ended up they only used the infield track. What a shame to drive all that ways and not race the NASCAR Oval. so we backed out. It was murder getting our money back.

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Al Angulo
Auto Instructor
Ford Senior Master Tech
ASE Master Tech

Jeremy Pike
Member

Region: SFR
Car #: 89
Year : 90
Posts: 163
Status: Offline
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Anyone know of a seat for sale in the up coming Buttonwillow race? Preferably in something fast!

Shop Teacher
Member

Region: SF Nor Cal
Car #: #39
Year : 1990
Posts: 457
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Pike:
Anyone know of a seat for sale in the up coming Buttonwillow race? Preferably in something fast!

I have a seat open for the right driver for the 25hr. You fit what we are looking for.
AL

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Al Angulo
Auto Instructor
Ford Senior Master Tech
ASE Master Tech

Lance Snyder Made Donation to Website
Administrator

Region: Atlanta
Posts: 2470
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This is the question that has to be answered. Was it a private track test day or was it an actual sanctioned LeMons day?

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All this has happened before, and will happen again

Pat Newton Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Enduro addict

Region: Northwest, Oregon
Car #: 79
Year : 90
Posts: 3336
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Shop Teacher:
I have a seat open for the right driver for the 25hr. You fit what we are looking for.
AL

Past E2 winner? I'll say he does! [yep]

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Crew Chief, 3D Racing #64, aka Team Scrappy 2.0
3rd place E2, 2009 25 Hours of Thunderhill

Crew Chief, EGR/Miller Motorsports #64, aka Team Scrappy
E2 Champions, 2008 25 Hours of Thunderhill

EBudman Verified Driver
Idle Member

Region: Detroit
Car #: #71
Year : 1990
Posts: 656
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Lance Snyder:
This is the question that has to be answered. Was it a private track test day or was it an actual sanctioned LeMons day?

Actually, it doesn't matter! The LeMons rule is that once you've paid, you're all in.... no refunds whether you hit the track or not. You can hit the chicken out button to withdraw from the race, but the dough is gone. I commend your efforts, but I think the rule is laid out pretty clearly.

If you wanna run LeMons, make sure you have good spares or a cooler full of frosty beverages.

Eric

D.B. Cutler Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Huge Member

Region: Detroit
Car #: 5
Year : 1991
Posts: 1029
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The Friday practice day was run by the track. The LeMons part of the weekend started on Saturday. So to my logic, since we had a broken car starting Saturday morning, tried very hard to fix it for the event on Friday night but were unsuccessful and then did not even present the car to tech on Saturday morning, we should have been given a refund.

That said, Eric is right. Their rules refer to not getting refunds ever but they are very cutesy and unclear with regards to the situation which I described. So all that I wanted to do is warn everyone that once you paid in LeMons, that's it. You are not getting your money back no matter what. So if you enter one of these, make sure that the car runs well and make sure that you have spares (and frosty beverages) before you send your check.

Also, don't ever try to run a Saturn SC2. They truly are junk. We only ran one because the car owner had six of them. You would think one would have had a good engine...

Shop Teacher
Member

Region: SF Nor Cal
Car #: #39
Year : 1990
Posts: 457
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BTW don't let them know that you are a SCCA or NASA racer. They hate us!

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Al Angulo
Auto Instructor
Ford Senior Master Tech
ASE Master Tech

Steven Holloway Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Blue Eyes, Aquarius, hates being squeezed to the grass in SowDiv!

Region: Lonestar
Car #: 97
Year : 91
Posts: 740
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Especially don't mention SM!!!
If you have to, say you race F500.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's got electrical problems.

Dr.Dan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
V8, nice! And good for you too!

Region: san francisco region
Car #: 39
Year : 90
Posts: 1800
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Shop Teacher:
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Pike:
Anyone know of a seat for sale in the up coming Buttonwillow race? Preferably in something fast!

I have a seat open for the right driver for the 25hr. You fit what we are looking for.
AL

He'd be the STIG.

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Daniel Mairani DDS...still here, just faster.
http://www.DanielMairanidds.com

   

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