Spec Miata should seriously consider going to sealed motors, like Spec Racer Ford and Formula SCCA have done. It really is perfect, as engine costs seem to be the greatest expense in racing. What do you guys think?
Region: Central Florida
Car #: 01 & 99
Year : '92 & '94 Posts: 137
Status: Offline
posted
i think you should be able to bring your engine to the local machine shop for a typical rebuild and balance. but then mazda would sell less engines and that wouldn't fly.
-------------------- Steven Elicati '92 Protege ITA#01 '94 Miata ITA#99
Region: WDCR - 042
Car #: 75
Year : 93 & 95 & 99 Posts: 3727
Status: Offline
posted
Or build a new SM5, they have sealed motors.
-------------------- Mike Collins MEATHEAD Racing http://www.SHEETZ.com The MEATHEAD Racing 2010 Calendar is up!!!! www.MEATHEADRacing.com SMAC Member WDCR-SCCA SM Drivers Rep. ALL OPINIONS ON RULES OR SPECIFICATIONS ARE JUST THAT, MY OPINIONS!
Region: texas
Car #: 71,72
Year : 1990,1999 Posts: 166
Status: Offline
posted
Engine costs are not even close to the most costly part of racing. A good pro motor used over a three season time span costs about 150.00 per weekend. Bottom line is in my opinion the car and motor are the cheapest part of racing and that racing itself is the expensive part tires,gas,motel,food,entry,test days ect....what you will find if you search about this is that the people who have the money will just buy 10 to find 1 good one just like in fe and srf
-------------------- Glenn Crew chief Meathead Racing, NE Region Sales Division Race Engineering, The GOLD standard in SM engines, Occasional race slave for OPM Autosports
quote: Do we seal the motors with regular seals or baby seals?
Lance is here till New years eve, 2 shows a night, and please tip your server well.
-------------------- Glenn Crew chief Meathead Racing, NE Region Sales Division Race Engineering, The GOLD standard in SM engines, Occasional race slave for OPM Autosports
Qik Nip
Loose Member '09 & '10 Great Lakes Regional Points Champion
Region: Cincinnati Great Lakes
Car #: 60
Year : 1990 Posts: 1487
Status: Offline
posted
quote:Originally posted by Lance Snyder: Do we seal the motors with regular seals or baby seals?
I'm thinking baby seals because that's a more sustainable (green) solution. Mommy seals can always have more of those cute babies...
What the hell is Mathias windging about anyway?
-------------------- Fortune Cookie Racing SM 60 Directions for use: Race, Rumple, Repair ... Repeat!
Yeah but when the mommy seals get too old the daddy seals will be looking for "young blood"
-------------------- Glenn Crew chief Meathead Racing, NE Region Sales Division Race Engineering, The GOLD standard in SM engines, Occasional race slave for OPM Autosports
quote:Originally posted by Chris Haldeman: A good pro motor used over a three season time span costs about 150.00 per weekend.
since when does a pro motor last 3 seasons? if you are getting 40 weekends out of your pro motor, then i would like the name and number of your builder. sign me up.
a more realistic prediction is 25 hours. 10 weekends, maybe. after you install that $6000 motor, i was thinking the engine cost is closer to $750 per weekend. the cost of the engine is indeed, my greatest single expense. perhaps everything costs more here in chicago, and i'd love for my numbers to be wrong, but i'm not seeing anyone getting 80+ hours out of a pro motor around here. lovin' the idea of the crate motor, and looking very much forward to the transition into SM5.
Region: Southwest
Car #: 500
Year : 2002 Posts: 179
Status: Offline
posted
Or you could just do like me and run the 50K mile factory motor that came in the car new and say to hell with it. If I'm at the back of the pack, the motor is probably not the biggest reason.
-------------------- Greg H. 2002 red Miata #500 Denton, Texas
Region: texas
Car #: 71,72
Year : 1990,1999 Posts: 166
Status: Offline
posted
This is the part of the argument that gets alittle confusing these motors will easily do three seasons. I just put about 40hours on mine this year and it still runs great. Would it win the runoffs no but neither would I. If you are really totally losing your motors after 25 hours you need a new builder for sure pm me for a list. The point is there is not going to be a sealed motor program and this is all
Region: Houston; SWDIV
Car #: 15
Year : 99 Posts: 680
Status: Offline
posted
quote:Originally posted by Mike Anzaldi:
quote:Originally posted by Chris Haldeman: A good pro motor used over a three season time span costs about 150.00 per weekend.
since when does a pro motor last 3 seasons? if you are getting 40 weekends out of your pro motor, then i would like the name and number of your builder. sign me up.
a more realistic prediction is 25 hours. 10 weekends, maybe. after you install that $6000 motor, i was thinking the engine cost is closer to $750 per weekend. the cost of the engine is indeed, my greatest single expense. perhaps everything costs more here in chicago, and i'd love for my numbers to be wrong, but i'm not seeing anyone getting 80+ hours out of a pro motor around here. lovin' the idea of the crate motor, and looking very much forward to the transition into SM5.
My previous motor that I just changed out for the 2010 runoffs, ran 2 1/2 seasons. That is about 17 weekends for me. Throw in testing ect, I figure I put about 75-90 hours it. It was an untouched Sunbelt run in at the factory. When I pulled it out, I think it was still viewed as a "fast" motor by my competitors.
It would be nice if my new motor last that long.
-------------------- James York
sponsored by: Stan's Auto Center, Lafayette LA powered by: East Street Racing, Memphis TN set up guru: Gilfus Racing, Austin TX
well, i'll happily stand corrected. my first motor didn't last long at all...maybe 20 hours of testing and practice. i'm on the second one now with higher hopes.
i know others in my region who have similar stories, but i suppose there are others yet who are getting the higher usage you guys are speaking of- i just don't know them.
just for some clarity, i don't really consider a pro-built 120hp motor that makes 105hp after 20 hours to count as "lasting". the useful life of the motor is what i'm more interested in. after a motor is done making proper pro-built power, it's not terribly useful, in my opinion.
Region: SFR
Car #: 88 SM
Year : 99 Posts: 367
Status: Offline
posted
quote:Originally posted by Mike Anzaldi: well, i'll happily stand corrected. my first motor didn't last long at all...maybe 20 hours of testing and practice. i'm on the second one now with higher hopes.
i know others in my region who have similar stories, but i suppose there are others yet who are getting the higher usage you guys are speaking of- i just don't know them.
just for some clarity, i don't really consider a pro-built 120hp motor that makes 105hp after 20 hours to count as "lasting". the useful life of the motor is what i'm more interested in. after a motor is done making proper pro-built power, it's not terribly useful, in my opinion.
Me too, see video below. Mine was junkyard. I have a crate now.
Region: Chicago
Car #: 94 Posts: 176
Status: Offline
posted
quote:Originally posted by Mike Anzaldi:
quote:Originally posted by Chris Haldeman: A good pro motor used over a three season time span costs about 150.00 per weekend.
since when does a pro motor last 3 seasons? if you are getting 40 weekends out of your pro motor, then i would like the name and number of your builder. sign me up.
a more realistic prediction is 25 hours. 10 weekends, maybe. after you install that $6000 motor, i was thinking the engine cost is closer to $750 per weekend. the cost of the engine is indeed, my greatest single expense. perhaps everything costs more here in chicago, and i'd love for my numbers to be wrong, but i'm not seeing anyone getting 80+ hours out of a pro motor around here. lovin' the idea of the crate motor, and looking very much forward to the transition into SM5.
Mike, I got 4 seasons (close to 40 race weekends and/or test days) on the bottom end of my '95 1.8 before the oil pressure took a dive in October. The head was refreshed once at about the halfway mark of that period. I don't think that's terribly unusual and the motor made very good power throughout all 4 years. It began life as a crate motor. The motor in my '00 car didn't do as well and has a ring problem after just 4-5 events but that's a fluke IMO.
Region: SW Division
Car #: 32
Year : 1999 Posts: 194
Status: Offline
posted
quote:Originally posted by Mike Anzaldi: well, i'll happily stand corrected. my first motor didn't last long at all...maybe 20 hours of testing and practice. i'm on the second one now with higher hopes.
i know others in my region who have similar stories, but i suppose there are others yet who are getting the higher usage you guys are speaking of- i just don't know them.
just for some clarity, i don't really consider a pro-built 120hp motor that makes 105hp after 20 hours to count as "lasting". the useful life of the motor is what i'm more interested in. after a motor is done making proper pro-built power, it's not terribly useful, in my opinion.
Mike,
I've done 2 1/2 seasons with multiple test days and DE's on my Sunbelt with no appreciable drop. Certainly over 60 hours. I have just had the bottom end seals replaced at a low cost for precaution but as the leak down is still good there is no real need to replace the head unless I just want to burn cash. Not sure why others in your region are reporting short life - most in Texas are doing several seasons unless they lose oil pressure or are trying for the last 1-2 Hp at Runoffs.
Regarding others suggestions on spec/sealed motors, that boat sailed long ago regardless of the merits of the idea. A change that requires everyone in SM to suddenly spend several thousand dollars on a new sealed motor or become ineligible to race is unrealistic - and DOA.
Region: So Cal
Year : 90 Posts: 74
Status: Offline
posted
Even if we started from scratch at the club level sealing won't save any money. It would cost those that can do their own work more money. If one were to look at club/hobby racing a 6k engine isn't so bad compared to other classes. When one starts going up the ladder to 15k plus engines sealing starts to make more sense. If nothing else from not having to tech below the seal and get it back together before the next race. I see sealing as and alternative and a way to save money when running against fully developed programs. For example in some series a guy with a 25k sealed engine could be competitive with someone that had a full blown program with 40k engines. That's what's happening in the K&N Pro and the truck series in NASCAR right now. It give the little guy an option but doesn't mandate the package.
At our level one is more likely to spend more money on the "3 Ts", time, tires and travel, that they are on a big dog SM pro engine.
Region: CFR
Car #: 97
Year : 1990/99 Posts: 788
Status: Offline
posted
quote:Originally posted by Mike Anzaldi: well, i'll happily stand corrected. my first motor didn't last long at all...maybe 20 hours of testing and practice. i'm on the second one now with higher hopes.
i know others in my region who have similar stories, but i suppose there are others yet who are getting the higher usage you guys are speaking of- i just don't know them.
just for some clarity, i don't really consider a pro-built 120hp motor that makes 105hp after 20 hours to count as "lasting". the useful life of the motor is what i'm more interested in. after a motor is done making proper pro-built power, it's not terribly useful, in my opinion.
My motor is 2 years old and makes the exact same power as it did when it was new. I run multiple track days, ecrs, and sprints every year. There is no reason to think that it wont run for at least another year or more. If you have an engine that requires a rebuild after 25 or 50 hours you should look at getting a new engine builder. The engine that won the runoffs had well over 40 hours on it and I would imagine that it will be at the 2011 runoffs as well. There is a easy (cheap way) of getting power but a right way to get the power and make it last. If a builder tells you 25 hours, run the other way!
-------------------- 2010 ARRC Champion 2010 CFR Champion 2010 instigator of the year 2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman
Region: NASA So Cal
Year : Thinking on that.... ok done 99 Posts: 82
Status: Offline
posted
quote:Originally posted by Dave Stevens: Even if we started from scratch at the club level sealing won't save any money...
Dave
The cost of a pro motor, minus the cost of a crate motor and sealing program would be a very large net savings. That is if you consider thousands to be savings. I do and readily concede that ship to have sailed...
Region: Oregon
Car #: 68
Year : 91 Posts: 2359
Status: Offline
posted
Or as Mike Collins suggests, the ship just arrived -- The recently approved SM5.
-bw
-------------------- Bruce Wilson 2010 Oregon Region Champ 2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year 2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E3 and Under 2 liter Overall Champion Oregon Region SM Class Advisor
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