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Author Topic: Winners of the SFR Sunoco Challenge in Group 7 and $325 each are:
Dr.Dan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
V8, nice! And good for you too!

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Mike, what has been your best finish before this year? SO now all of a sudden the top non sealed guys don't know how to drive the corners? is that correct? I'm offended. only slightly. we are not worried about anyone. It's a conversation about parity. So do you make it a practice to pull over and let an smt by or do you race him? now that you are a front runner. Your first year in SSM? I don't recall. were you not smt last year. were you? regardless, I don't recall you being in the top 7, until this year. last year you finished 17th and 26th respectively. so you got a new seal rebello and now you finish 5th 6th? You must have practiced A LOT in the offseason to be giving the SMT guys advice on driving. And if you were SMT last year that proves our point.

[ 05-14-2010, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: Dr. Dan ]

--------------------
Daniel Mairani DDS...still here, just faster.
http://www.DanielMairanidds.com

Dr.Dan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
V8, nice! And good for you too!

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Daniel Mairani DDS...still here, just faster.
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Ron Alan Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Shop Teacher:
Mark Means had his car sealed last month before the opener. His car was so down on power he barely turned a 12. He took a look at the timing and it was set to 8deg. He took it back to Kevin and he stated that “sometimes the timing moves on its own”. WTH dose that mean! He did reset the timing and charged Mark another $190. The next time at the track it blew up. Last year he sealed Bingles car at 101hp. Im not to sure about the sealing process. I feel there needs to be another form of checks and balances. One person with limited knowledge sealing these cars is fishy.

I would think the Cam angle sensor is one of those things that is "MARKED" during sealing so Kevin or anyone else can see if it has been tampered with or in this case "moved on its own"

To charge him to fix this is ridiculous...especially if he had just sealed it. I would have never paid him...let the SCCA deal with there "expert". It's called a torque wrench or loctite! Or maybe just remember to tighten the locking screw!

--------------------
-RA


"Happy birthday, I didn't get you a present...Oh, mom got you one? Well, that's from me then too, unless it's shitty."
9:52 AM Sep 14th, 2009 via web
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Doug Makishima
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FYI, I am starting another thread for SSM technical and compliance discussions.

Here it is: http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/26/1015.html

--------------------
2008 SCCA SFR ITS Season Champion
2004 SCCA SFR Rookie Driver
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B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Alan:
quote:
Originally posted by Shop Teacher:
Mark Means had his car sealed last month before the opener. His car was so down on power he barely turned a 12. He took a look at the timing and it was set to 8deg. He took it back to Kevin and he stated that “sometimes the timing moves on its own”. WTH dose that mean! He did reset the timing and charged Mark another $190. The next time at the track it blew up. Last year he sealed Bingles car at 101hp. Im not to sure about the sealing process. I feel there needs to be another form of checks and balances. One person with limited knowledge sealing these cars is fishy.

I would think the Cam angle sensor is one of those things that is "MARKED" during sealing so Kevin or anyone else can see if it has been tampered with or in this case "moved on its own"

To charge him to fix this is ridiculous...especially if he had just sealed it. I would have never paid him...let the SCCA deal with there "expert". It's called a torque wrench or loctite! Or maybe just remember to tighten the locking screw!

that happens when the CAS is shot. I've had 2 go bad. CAS doesn't move, but internals do. Should have replaced before re-seal, might have caused the blow too.

-bw

--------------------
Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year
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Ron Alan Made Donation to Website
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Good info...thanks for the explanation on the CAS. But if they go bad internally then the fact that MCE "fixed/adjusted" a CAS that hadn't moved on the external mark even more of a question of his knowledge and what he is charging for?

This is another case for paperwork and transparency. If in fact timing is set at 14 degrees(and the paperwork you have shows this!)and 2 days later it is at 8 degrees but doesn't appear to have moved externally then re-adjusting it makes no sense...and then charging for it??? This is all under the assumption what Al has said is accurate and what BW is valid.

-RA

--------------------
-RA


"Happy birthday, I didn't get you a present...Oh, mom got you one? Well, that's from me then too, unless it's shitty."
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Paul Mitalas Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I feel every SSM driver that beat me at Laguna was more skilled than I was. But there were some inexplicable scenarios. Any excuse to post a video addressing the mystery of the all powerful SSM. [Smile]

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6581853/

Shop Teacher
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Mitalas:
I feel every SSM driver that beat me at Laguna was more skilled than I was. But there were some inexplicable scenarios. Any excuse to post a video addressing the mystery of the all powerful SSM. [Smile]

Video is to funny

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6581853/


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Al Angulo
Auto Instructor
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Steve Holifield Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Mitalas:
I feel every SSM driver that beat me at Laguna was more skilled than I was. But there were some inexplicable scenarios. Any excuse to post a video addressing the mystery of the all powerful SSM. [Smile]

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6581853/

Hilarious!!!

JD Morris Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Mitalas:
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6581853/

Thanks, Paul. That was awesome!

JD (back to lurking)

mtm68 Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by JD Morris:
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Mitalas:
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6581853/

Thanks, Paul. That was awesome!

JD (back to lurking)

+1 on both.

--------------------
-
Marcus Miller
ITA 1.6 for sale- ish
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quote:
Originally posted by mtm68:
quote:
Originally posted by JD Morris:
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Mitalas:
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6581853/

Thanks, Paul. That was awesome!

JD (back to lurking)

+1 on both.
A Big +1

Dr.Dan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
V8, nice! And good for you too!

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Paul doesn't say much but when he does.......... Brilliant!

--------------------
Daniel Mairani DDS...still here, just faster.
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Paul Mitalas Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Thanks for the encouraging comments. You are now in danger of more such videos whenever a contentious topic arises.

JD-Glad to see you lurking. This season I've already got three Miata's back on track using the spares you left me. Should they be worried about using parts marked with an X? [Wink]

JD Morris Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Mitalas:
JD-Glad to see you lurking. This season I've already got three Miata's back on track using the spares you left me. Should they be worried about using parts marked with an X? [Wink]

Collect all 20! Each 'X' will make a car about 0.1 second slower per lap. [Wink]

Please get back to the discussion about Rebello powered SSM's and ways to cheat the system when getting the car sealed, etc. Or how to pry the dyno sheets out of Kevin's hands. I think racing would be more fun if everybody had a current dyno sheet taped to the outside of their car on grid! Like a badge of honor or a badge of shame!

JD

Doug Makishima
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Hey JD,

Good to see you here! Hope all is well.

For those who want to continue the discussion on SSM please post here:

quote:
Originally posted by Doug Makishima:
FYI, I am starting another thread for SSM technical and compliance discussions.

Here it is: http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/26/1015.html


--------------------
2008 SCCA SFR ITS Season Champion
2004 SCCA SFR Rookie Driver
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Dr.Dan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
V8, nice! And good for you too!

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What's to discuss. you guys need to make changes otherwise SSM is just a sham. To some winning is very important. To others it more about playing hard and having fun. But I think at least for now full disclosure is a must. No one has given a reason for not publishing it yet. why? The top sealed don't want to change a thing. the bottom guys may be getting screwed. Only those who really care about the truth and parity will come forward and question. Hell, I'm not even an SSM and I question more than you guys????? I only do it for the health of the club and our miata's. If we were all on an even playing field it would improve the class. Seacrest OUT!

--------------------
Daniel Mairani DDS...still here, just faster.
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Sean Allen Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I don't see all the fuss about posting the dyno sheets and making them available. All that will show is what the car dyno'd at the time of sealing.

Shop Teacher
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Dan I totally agree with you and im not a sealed car. Who can we talk to about changing some of the SSM guide lines. I feel if they are going to share the grid with us we should know what there standards are.
A

--------------------
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Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Sean Allen:
I don't see all the fuss about posting the dyno sheets and making them available. All that will show is what the car dyno'd at the time of sealing.

At least you would get an idea of the specs, which at the moment are confidential. Are both torque and HP set equal on all cars? (unlikely) And what is the variation between cars? The before and after dyno sheets should be published. Someone coming in at 120HP and being detuned to 113 would be cause for scrutiny, as would someone coming at at 109 and being tuned up to 113.

Right now, all you have is one guy saying it's a fair game without any verification whether that is really the case. A fair game allows all participants to see for themselves that it is fair.

-Juan

--------------------
www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

Dr.Dan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
V8, nice! And good for you too!

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quote:
Originally posted by Sean Allen:
I don't see all the fuss about posting the dyno sheets and making them available. All that will show is what the car dyno'd at the time of sealing.

So you are in favor of secrecy? It's a start.

--------------------
Daniel Mairani DDS...still here, just faster.
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Sean Allen Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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You guys are misunderstanding me. I'm saying what does the "sealed" dyno sheet prove? All it says is that the car made X amount of Hp (>113) at the TIME of sealing. If you want things even, dyno after every race at post THOSE dyno sheets. You know how many things you can do to a car so it will make 113hp when sealed, and then an hour later after sealing make 120hp?

Doug Makishima
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Dan:
What's to discuss. you guys need to make changes otherwise SSM is just a sham. To some winning is very important. To others it more about playing hard and having fun. But I think at least for now full disclosure is a must. No one has given a reason for not publishing it yet. why? The top sealed don't want to change a thing. the bottom guys may be getting screwed. Only those who really care about the truth and parity will come forward and question. Hell, I'm not even an SSM and I question more than you guys????? I only do it for the health of the club and our miata's. If we were all on an even playing field it would improve the class. Seacrest OUT!

Hi Dan,

I AM advocating for change. The reason to use the other thread is so that other can contribute to the debate. It's easier to recognize the thread's title. Also, it could be used for archiving and reference purposes.

Thanks,

Doug

--------------------
2008 SCCA SFR ITS Season Champion
2004 SCCA SFR Rookie Driver
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B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
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From an outsider's viewpoint:

Sean has some good points. 1) Dyno all cars at the same time would be good. Difference between hot, cold, humid, dry is BIG. 2) and this is an even bigger ? in my mind. Builder can build for good torque and not so good hp. Spend enough and you've got a winner...

This is really far off from what enterprises does for SRF, which is already a 4-5hp crap shoot. And they build the motors, AND dyno them in an environmentally controlled environment.

-bw

--------------------
Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E3 and Under 2 liter Overall Champion
Oregon Region SM Class Advisor

Johnny D Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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My thread had some good points, I'll bring one over.
http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/46/130.html


quote:
Originally posted by Alan Olson:
Why dont you guys just adopt the DC Region's Rules, they seem to be very well sorted out. SSM in DC has proven to work very well. Getting close to track limt on the # of cars. Not a sermon, just a thought.


Sean Yepez Verified Driver
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I'm just going to say it. Get rid of SSM! It works in theory but definitely not in practice when more than a few people are selling Rebellos. [Big Grin]

My 1.8 was pulled on by two "SSM" cars at the test day in January and I am making a lot more than 113 horsepower at the wheels. [rolling on floor laughin]

--------------------
2008 San Francisco Region SMT Champion

Jeremy Pike
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For 2009 I was under the impression that if you sealed your car for NASA, SCCA would honor that. NASA was posted as
posted 07-29-2009 09:13 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Qik Nip:
What are the HP and Torque values at which a NASA SSM is sealed and are they RPM specific? More SSM info please....
Rick
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rick,

The numbers for NASA are as follows:

Horsepower - 114.5 Maximum peaking at approximately 6500rpm
Torque (foot-pounds) - 103 Maximum peaking at approximately 5500rpm

The whole procedure is involved and complicated. It includes many controls such as:

1. Check for dyno cheating (sandbagging)
2. A tq curve template guide that a sealed car must follow as specific points along the curve.
3. New spec parts
4. Wire seals
5. Tape seals

And much more...

I can't speak to the issue at the SFR race because I don't know much about it or, to be honest, the SCCA sealing procedure.

I can tell a little more about the NASA control system in that Data acquisition plays a role to find cars that may not be compliant. Also, if a NASA approved dyno is present at the track (as it will be at Thunderhill and lots of east coast events) then random checking may be done as well as protest driven checking. I'm still sussing out exactly how that would work but those controls are there.

Eventually I would love to see SCCA cars and NASA sealed cars crossover freely between the two organizations as that would be the most beneficial for everyone involved.

I hope this answers some questions...

thanks

Jason

If this is still legal then I would seal mine under NASA'a rules and run SCCA.
SCCA 113hp ???torque
NASA 114hp 103torque

I believe 103 torque is pretty respectfull number for a "good" motor.

Again, not to say anyone is cheating, but last years "seal" was your off the shelf tamper seal you can by at any auto parts store. It's like colored silicone, its not a lock, and it can be bought at NAPA and reapplied.

This thread is just like last years..

http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/46/94.html#000036

Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Sean Yepez:
My 1.8 was pulled on by two "SSM" cars at the test day in January and I am making a lot more than 113 horsepower at the wheels.

Sean, You must be getting really rusty if you let those SSMs out drive you. You need to come back racing for some practice. [Smile]

-Juan

--------------------
www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

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quote:
Originally posted by Juan Pineda:
quote:
Originally posted by Sean Yepez:
My 1.8 was pulled on by two "SSM" cars at the test day in January and I am making a lot more than 113 horsepower at the wheels.

Sean, You must be getting really rusty if you let those SSMs out drive you. You need to come back racing for some practice. [Smile]

-Juan

You are probably right that rust is now a major factor. [Wink]

I do recall that I passed the two cars in question eventually, but it definitely wasn't because I had more power. [Big Grin]

--------------------
2008 San Francisco Region SMT Champion

Darrell Adams
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Two things:

1. Agree with Doc Dan that HP is the name of the game, but driver ability is mucho importante. I have a strong SSM (#16 Larry Oka) but always finish low third or so. I'm willing to bet that if Railton or Rose or Petruska were in my car, it would be a serious contender (regular ol' engine, no Rebello).

2. I'm curious why the regular SM guys are concerned about the SSMs.

--------------------
"The older I get, the faster I went!"

Sean Allen Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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We are just angry when our top-dollar pro builds are getting smoked by a cheap garage built SSM. [Wink] [duck]

Darrell Adams
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quote:
Originally posted by Sean Allen:
We are just angry when our top-dollar pro builds are getting smoked by a cheap garage built SSM. [Wink] [duck]

Hmmm......I was a mite suspicious.

--------------------
"The older I get, the faster I went!"

Darrell Adams
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Please get back to the discussion about Rebello powered SSM's and ways to cheat the system when getting the car sealed, etc. Or how to pry the dyno sheets out of Kevin's hands. I think racing would be more fun if everybody had a current dyno sheet taped to the outside of their car on grid! Like a badge of honor or a badge of shame!

JD [/QB][/QUOTE]


One thing I've heard is after a brand new crate motor is dynoed and sealed the engine tightens up and comes in, increasing bhp.

--------------------
"The older I get, the faster I went!"

dtfastbear Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
faster than the average bear...

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I'm not concerned. I'm amused.

The whole premise for SSM is to increase parity. I've gotten to watch a lot of SFR Group 7 races over the last two years since I've been more pit-tootsie than driver. I can say this with conviction - there is little parity in the SSM field right now when it comes to acceleration capability. They might all look "equal" on Kevin's dyno, but that sure isn't translating to real world parity on the track.

Just one guy's opinion.

Dean

--------------------
NASA Nor Cal SM series Director
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Dr.Dan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
V8, nice! And good for you too!

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quote:
Originally posted by Darrell Adams:
Two things:


2. I'm curious why the regular SM guys are concerned about the SSMs.

We still have to race them and remember "parity"?? We are just waiting to see what happens/happened to the sealed class. At least I was. but like Dean says they/you are all over the map. so nothing has changed. And WHO made Kevin the grand pooba?? We run this club, not him.

--------------------
Daniel Mairani DDS...still here, just faster.
http://www.DanielMairanidds.com

Dr.Dan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
V8, nice! And good for you too!

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you put two STIGS in a real fast nonsealed and a real 113 hp sealed car and I'll bet I know the outcome. I don't care how good a driver is or thinks he is, HP makes a difference. Why the hell do we even bother with trying to get 1hp out of an intake or exhaust sytem. Why? because it matters.

Nobody WANTS to by a 6k+ motor. Do they? Well I guess they do. Then they seal it. Go figure. Imagine how frikin fast those top sealed cars would be if they WERE NOT sealed. I guess those drivers were just sandbaggin the last couple of years Huh? waiting to pounce..lol

--------------------
Daniel Mairani DDS...still here, just faster.
http://www.DanielMairanidds.com

Shop Teacher
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Region: SF Nor Cal
Car #: #39
Year : 1990
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I talked to Mike today and he informed me that there is a board meeting tomorrow, and one of the topics is SSM. It looks like SFR tried to copy the Spec Racer Ford program. The one difference seams to be were the engines come from. In SRF they all get their engines from one place. they are guarantee to be within 1.5 HP of each other. I think the problem we have is anyone can build the engine and its up to Kevin to make it right. Now for my two cents worth, since we make up the Miata field why cant we as a group determine the rules. I also feel that maybe the SSM class should be ran on Crate engines only. They cost $2200 in the SRF class they pay over $3000. Mike was understanding and is willing to make necessary changes to make the SSM class equal.

--------------------
Al Angulo
Auto Instructor
Ford Senior Master Tech
ASE Master Tech

Jeremy Pike
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Region: SFR
Car #: 89
Year : 90
Posts: 163
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quote:
Originally posted by Darrell Adams:
Please get back to the discussion about Rebello powered SSM's and ways to cheat the system when getting the car sealed, etc.
JD

Get you car "sealed." Buy yourself a tube of the same colored tamper seal. Dyno the car again at maximum hp. "Reseal" yourself!! And post your first dyno sheet on your car. I think camo man came up with the term Resealed Sealed Spec Miata last year.

http://www.cgenterprises.com/fuses.htm#Tamper Seal

Dr.Dan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
V8, nice! And good for you too!

Region: san francisco region
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Year : 90
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Hang them all for the highest yard arm Arrrrrrr! Draw an quarter em! keel hall them! Arrrr!!! Walk the plank!! you yellow belly skallywags! Put em in chains, leave em for the rats!! Arrrrr!!..................ok. I'm done.

--------------------
Daniel Mairani DDS...still here, just faster.
http://www.DanielMairanidds.com

Ray Meister Made Donation to Website
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Arrr Captain Dan, ye forgot to have em run the gauntlet...

Dr.Dan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
V8, nice! And good for you too!

Region: san francisco region
Car #: 39
Year : 90
Posts: 1800
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Just trying to lighten it up. Captain Dan...........I like it. Shiver me timbers!

--------------------
Daniel Mairani DDS...still here, just faster.
http://www.DanielMairanidds.com

dhois Verified Driver
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Car #: 15
Year : 1990
Posts: 48
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I'll chime in late on this one. I agree that the SSM program has flaws, but I think they are mainly in the lack of transparency as to dyno sheets. If all sealed cars' sheets were scanned and posted online, and random testing of the field demanded a comparison to your last dyno sheet with tolerance for weather, etc. we'd have a better chance of eliminating the "thick fluid" tricks used to get higher HP to the rear wheels after the sealing dyno run. I'm running on my original sealed setup from early last year and the car seems strong to me; that is I don't feel at a disadvantage to Shop Teacher on the straights! (Maybe in skill level [Smile]

Phillip Holifield Verified Driver
Member

Region: San Francisco Region
Car #: 20
Year : 1990
Posts: 59
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Shop Teacher:
I talked to Mike today and he informed me that there is a board meeting tomorrow, and one of the topics is SSM. It looks like SFR tried to copy the Spec Racer Ford program. The one difference seams to be were the engines come from. In SRF they all get their engines from one place. they are guarantee to be within 1.5 HP of each other. I think the problem we have is anyone can build the engine and its up to Kevin to make it right. Now for my two cents worth, since we make up the Miata field why cant we as a group determine the rules. I also feel that maybe the SSM class should be ran on Crate engines only. They cost $2200 in the SRF class they pay over $3000. Mike was understanding and is willing to make necessary changes to make the SSM class equal.

Any update from the meeting?

Kim Ouye Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Retired Racer

Region: SFR
Car #: 82/73
Year : 1991
Posts: 2015
Status: Offline
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One supplier for the engines is the only way to go or you have "pro-SSM" motors that max out torque curve. Thus killing the very reason the class exists...how sad is that?....

--------------------
Kim

91 BRG SMT RIP
06 MX-5 Cup

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy sh*t...what a ride!'" - Unknown

Viet-Tam Luu
Slow

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Car #: 14
Year : 1999
Posts: 453
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quote:
Originally posted by Kim Ouye:
One supplier for the engines is the only way to go or you have "pro-SSM" motors that max out torque curve. Thus killing the very reason the class exists...how sad is that?....

That's not a bad idea, but forcing everyone to buy a new crate motor does rather add to the cost--at least in the short term.

Stand by. I'll have some more information for you guys shortly...

--------------------
Viet-Tam Luu (a.k.a. "Tam")
SFR-SCCA #14 ITS
Director, SCCA San Francisco Region

Shop Teacher
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That's not a bad idea, but forcing everyone to buy a new crate motor does rather add to the cost--at least in the short term.

Stand by. I'll have some more information for you guys shortly... [/QB][/QUOTE]

That is the price you pay for racing that class. If you want to race Sealed you must buy a sealed engine. Seams like a no brainer.

--------------------
Al Angulo
Auto Instructor
Ford Senior Master Tech
ASE Master Tech

Dan Cooper Verified Driver
Member

Region: San Francisco
Car #: 35
Year : 1990
Posts: 146
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Wasn't the original goal of SSM to keep the cost down for the "non-pro-motored"?

Forcing people to buy new crates to take part in a class that was supposed to create a place for the budget racer to be competitive doesn't seem fair or in pace with the goals of the SSM as a class.
[twocents]

--------------------
Dan
--
Green Miata #35
Integriteam/Integratis

Kim Ouye Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Retired Racer

Region: SFR
Car #: 82/73
Year : 1991
Posts: 2015
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan Cooper:
Wasn't the original goal of SSM to keep the cost down for the "non-pro-motored"?

Exactly...that's why it is so disturbing that there are "pro-SSM" motors from the start...

--------------------
Kim

91 BRG SMT RIP
06 MX-5 Cup

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy sh*t...what a ride!'" - Unknown

Kim Ouye Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Retired Racer

Region: SFR
Car #: 82/73
Year : 1991
Posts: 2015
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan Cooper:


Forcing people to buy new crates to take part in a class that was supposed to create a place for the budget racer to be competitive doesn't seem fair or in pace with the goals of the SSM as a class.
[twocents]

A crate motor is a lot cheaper than the pro-SSM motors. The alternative is what you have now...

--------------------
Kim

91 BRG SMT RIP
06 MX-5 Cup

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy sh*t...what a ride!'" - Unknown

Shop Teacher
Member

Region: SF Nor Cal
Car #: #39
Year : 1990
Posts: 457
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan Cooper:
Wasn't the original goal of SSM to keep the cost down for the "non-pro-motored"?

Forcing people to buy new crates to take part in a class that was supposed to create a place for the budget racer to be competitive doesn't seem fair or in pace with the goals of the SSM as a class.
[twocents]

This type of input wont get you any free track time!

--------------------
Al Angulo
Auto Instructor
Ford Senior Master Tech
ASE Master Tech

 
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