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Author Topic: 1990-1993 NA Miata Build
SCCA_Racer
Member

Region: 33 SFR
Year : 1991
Posts: 167
Status: Offline
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I know this is not the classified section but I wanted to limit my exposure to the SFR area. I am looking for a donor/build 90-93 but prefer 91-93 for the long crank. If the car is stock with 160K or less $1000 is my offer but it it has less miles, Mods, or hardtop then my offer will go up but not over $2000. I know the prices are o the low end but the price depends on the car.
I have been hitting Craigslist daily and everything in my range goes before I can get to it.
Let me know if you have something available or know of something available.
FYI this will be used for my College Senior Project as an Industrial Technology major starting next semester. My intent is to build the car for the school to start a racing team to help the Industrial Technology's department get more automotive students. Once I start the build watch for a thread in the Garage about my progress.

Thanks,

--------------------
Joshua Fine
SCCA member 323214 since 2003
Novice Permit in 2010
Racing 2011

Michael53
Member

Region: NEOKLA
Car #: 53
Year : 90
Posts: 22
Status: Offline
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That sounds like a great idea but unless you're in one of the lucky areas that still has a glut of used miata's I think your budget numbers are about a grand low. $1000 won't buy a running one here in the midwest anymore. (except for bad wrecks) Price of the donor is pretty minor in the total budget anyway. If you haven't read all the threads on build costs and estimates please do. Too many great builds still are derailed by grossly underestimated completion estimates. A well researched and documented budget is a requirement in any of our local automotive IT programs and needs to be part of your proposal.
Make yours a good one! Best wishes. - MJ

SCCA_Racer
Member

Region: 33 SFR
Year : 1991
Posts: 167
Status: Offline
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I already have a build list in excel which is right at $10,000 but I have been told to budget $15,000.
I have already started all of the documentation and I just about can quote the 2010 GCR. I know what I am getting into as I have rebuilt cars before, so a race car is not a whole lot different.

--------------------
Joshua Fine
SCCA member 323214 since 2003
Novice Permit in 2010
Racing 2011

Shop Teacher
Member

Region: SF Nor Cal
Car #: #39
Year : 1990
Posts: 457
Status: Offline
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I have several cars that would work for your needs. The problem i have is that the parts are worth more than you are offering. Trans 200 engine 300 sub frames 150 ea up rights, fenders hood, doors. I can part out a running car for far more than you are offering.

--------------------
Al Angulo
Auto Instructor
Ford Senior Master Tech
ASE Master Tech

Sean Yepez Verified Driver
Team Keeblerspeed

Region: SF
Car #: 94
Year : 94
Posts: 671
Status: Offline
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You might want to budget a little bit more for that donor. As Al said, a $1,000 donor car may require much more TLC and replacement parts than one for just a bit more!

--------------------
2008 San Francisco Region SMT Champion

SCCA_Racer
Member

Region: 33 SFR
Year : 1991
Posts: 167
Status: Offline
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Well for now that is my budget and I will make adjustments as needed. I plan to strip everything allowed in the rules and replace all suspension and brake components. The only TLC I do not want is rust or bent parts. The motor will be a crate unit if the motor in the car can not meet the max HP. My time line has me buying the car between now and July 1st so I have time to shop.

--------------------
Joshua Fine
SCCA member 323214 since 2003
Novice Permit in 2010
Racing 2011

Rick Fawthrop
Member

Region: Norpac
Year : 1995
Posts: 10
Status: Offline
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If you buy a good car then you will have good parts.
If you buy a car that needs no body parts and has a good engine, trans, windshield, etc then you will not have to buy them later.
I would rather pay $2500 for a running car with hardtop and nice paint than 500 for a rat that needs paint and glass.

SCCA_Racer
Member

Region: 33 SFR
Year : 1991
Posts: 167
Status: Offline
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I know what you guys are saying and I know I am looking for a needle in a haystack but I have time to look.
Rick, I already I am going to have to re-paint the car as I do not want a factory color because I want the car to standout when I am behind or passing.

--------------------
Joshua Fine
SCCA member 323214 since 2003
Novice Permit in 2010
Racing 2011

Mighty Mike Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: SFR
Car #: 42 & 92
Year : 91 & 93
Posts: 90
Status: Offline
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You might want to look in Race ready cars for sale. Jeremy Pike is selling his car. He is even including set up equipment (scales). That car is a very strong car. Well at least when Jeremy was driving it. Then you could have alot of time and money left for track days and entry fees. There is alot to be said for buying a already built car. Just my 2 cents.


Michael Niemann
Team MiataKa Racing

Ron Alan Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: SF
Year : 95
Posts: 235
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Josh,

Keep in mind what you can sell on the car after purchase. I've seen several cars recently that had hard dog roll bars and decent wheels in the $2-3K range. Also decent after market suspension, exhaust, intake, good soft top, good seats, carpet...all these thing are easily sold and bring down your initial investment. A well modified car may be a better investment than a cheap roller.
After we sold the things that came on our donor we are racing for the cost of suspension, brake lines, wheels, tires and safety equipment. Granted we were very lucky to sell all the great extra parts for what we paid for the car.

Good luck!

Ron

--------------------
-RA


"Happy birthday, I didn't get you a present...Oh, mom got you one? Well, that's from me then too, unless it's shitty."
9:52 AM Sep 14th, 2009 via web
http://twitter.com/shitmydadsays

Jason Brassfield Verified Driver
Member

Region: oregon
Year : 1991
Posts: 32
Status: Offline
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There is one in the classifieds now at this site that seems to fit your needs, in Sacramento.

http://classifieds.specmiata.com/detail.php?id=2905

-Jason

Speed Freak
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Here's one on craigslist. Not exactly what you want, but an example of whats out there.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/1737943795.html

SCCA_Racer
Member

Region: 33 SFR
Year : 1991
Posts: 167
Status: Offline
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I am second on the list for the car in the donor section as it is perfect for what I am looking for.
The
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/1737943795.html
is a 94 and will not qualify for Sealed.
Thanks for the help guys. I hit Craigslist once a day during the week and twice daily on weekends plus several other Miata forums once a day.
I am sure I will find something by July 1st.

--------------------
Joshua Fine
SCCA member 323214 since 2003
Novice Permit in 2010
Racing 2011

David Luney Verified Driver
Member

Region: ATL
Car #: 29-Killed
Year : 1990
Posts: 193
Status: Offline
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The cage in the walnut creek car is worth the price, and then some.

PS: At your budget, you will have a minumum of 50% more in a build vs. buy, maybe even a full 100%.

Shop Teacher
Member

Region: SF Nor Cal
Car #: #39
Year : 1990
Posts: 457
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by David Luney:
The cage in the walnut creek car is worth the price, and then some.

PS: At your budget, you will have a minumum of 50% more in a build vs. buy, maybe even a full 100%.

its a 1.8

--------------------
Al Angulo
Auto Instructor
Ford Senior Master Tech
ASE Master Tech

Ron Alan Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: SF
Year : 95
Posts: 235
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quote:
Originally posted by Shop Teacher:
quote:
Originally posted by David Luney:
The cage in the walnut creek car is worth the price, and then some.

PS: At your budget, you will have a minumum of 50% more in a build vs. buy, maybe even a full 100%.

its a 1.8
Al,

Maybe Rookie530 can start his build with this? Pretty sure this belongs to Sean A.

Josh, buy this for the cage and part the rest? As Al said, the parts and tub sold seperatly are worth quite a bit...

-RA

--------------------
-RA


"Happy birthday, I didn't get you a present...Oh, mom got you one? Well, that's from me then too, unless it's shitty."
9:52 AM Sep 14th, 2009 via web
http://twitter.com/shitmydadsays

Shop Teacher
Member

Region: SF Nor Cal
Car #: #39
Year : 1990
Posts: 457
Status: Offline
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Ron if Sean's car was a deal it would be in my shop. it needs everything, if you don't have a running 1.8 to transfer all of the parts from, your in for a horrific cost. Ron don't give the Rookie any ideas, ill just end up putting it together. i enjoy building my own cars but buying a running car is great also. Josh seems to have thought this out and has a plan of attack. i find that it is extremely gratifying getting past by all of the other faster cars that were built by people that know what they are doing. Just kidding Josh, im more than happy to help out anyone that needs help just give me a call 530-chicano-pwr

--------------------
Al Angulo
Auto Instructor
Ford Senior Master Tech
ASE Master Tech

Dr.Dan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
V8, nice! And good for you too!

Region: san francisco region
Car #: 39
Year : 90
Posts: 1800
Status: Offline
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Heck a hard top is 1K.

--------------------
Daniel Mairani DDS...still here, just faster.
http://www.DanielMairanidds.com

Ron Alan Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: SF
Year : 95
Posts: 235
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quote:
Originally posted by Shop Teacher:
Ron if Sean's car was a deal it would be in my shop. it needs everything, if you don't have a running 1.8 to transfer all of the parts from, your in for a horrific cost. Ron don't give the Rookie any ideas, ill just end up putting it together. i enjoy building my own cars but buying a running car is great also. Josh seems to have thought this out and has a plan of attack. i find that it is extremely gratifying getting past by all of the other faster cars that were built by people that know what they are doing. Just kidding Josh, im more than happy to help out anyone that needs help just give me a call 530-chicano-pwr

LOL...I figured as much on the Rookie...why do you think I suggested it! No doubt Josh wants to do this himself and I applaud him for that. I actually think his budget is high...unless of course he's counting his own time!
You never replied to my PM so I will plan to see you at TH in July with your timer [Smile]

--------------------
-RA


"Happy birthday, I didn't get you a present...Oh, mom got you one? Well, that's from me then too, unless it's shitty."
9:52 AM Sep 14th, 2009 via web
http://twitter.com/shitmydadsays

SCCA_Racer
Member

Region: 33 SFR
Year : 1991
Posts: 167
Status: Offline
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I knew some of you guys were going to try and talk some sense into me but getting into racing you have to have lost a little bit of you sense so mine is wanting to turn every nut and bolt of the car.
Here is one of my crazy deals I just missed.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/pts/1738863733.html
Again the car has to be a 90-93 only as I am going sealed. I wish you guys could see all the research I have put in. I have a 116 line excel spreadsheet listing every part and it related rule requirement, but the forum does not allow me to add it as an attachment.
Like I said before $1,000-$2,000 is my current budget but more mods on the car I can use or sell could change that amount.
Now this car is outside my current budget, but selling the parts: suspension and stereo might just make my budget.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/1743091482.html

--------------------
Joshua Fine
SCCA member 323214 since 2003
Novice Permit in 2010
Racing 2011

Viet-Tam Luu
Slow

Region: San Francisco Region
Car #: 14
Year : 1999
Posts: 453
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Dan:
Heck a hard top is 1K.

Bought one last week for $600. [Big Grin]

I see two $1000 Miatas on Craigslist (SF Bay Area) right now, a '92 and a '95. I've bought a 2000 Miata for $3500 so I've no doubt a 1.6L can be found for under $1k.

Winter's usually the best time to buy a Miata when those aging soft tops start leaking and people aren't in love with them as they are in the summer.

Keep an eye on Craigslist and be patient.

--------------------
Viet-Tam Luu (a.k.a. "Tam")
SFR-SCCA #14 ITS
Director, SCCA San Francisco Region

SCCA_Racer
Member

Region: 33 SFR
Year : 1991
Posts: 167
Status: Offline
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Still looking and finding but I am just to late to get them in time.
Got to make some phone calls tomorrow.

On a side I was over at ALMS weekend at Laguna. Were any of you there?

--------------------
Joshua Fine
SCCA member 323214 since 2003
Novice Permit in 2010
Racing 2011

Eric Richter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: So Cal
Car #: #29
Year : 1993
Posts: 232
Status: Offline
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http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/cto/1761138195.html

--------------------
2009 SoCal SCCA SM Champion
"Only boring people get bored"

Shop Teacher
Member

Region: SF Nor Cal
Car #: #39
Year : 1990
Posts: 457
Status: Offline
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give me a call i have a few of them

--------------------
Al Angulo
Auto Instructor
Ford Senior Master Tech
ASE Master Tech

SCCA_Racer
Member

Region: 33 SFR
Year : 1991
Posts: 167
Status: Offline
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Well I finally found one and brought it home.
Time to start my build thread in the Garage Forum.
Look for it starting some time this weekend.

--------------------
Joshua Fine
SCCA member 323214 since 2003
Novice Permit in 2010
Racing 2011

Ron Alan Made Donation to Website
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Region: SF
Year : 95
Posts: 235
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Did you see the silver hardtop I forwarded? I wouldn't hesitate!

Ron

--------------------
-RA


"Happy birthday, I didn't get you a present...Oh, mom got you one? Well, that's from me then too, unless it's shitty."
9:52 AM Sep 14th, 2009 via web
http://twitter.com/shitmydadsays

SCCA_Racer
Member

Region: 33 SFR
Year : 1991
Posts: 167
Status: Offline
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Do not have the cash for the top yet. I will search for that next. Thanks again Ron for that lead.

--------------------
Joshua Fine
SCCA member 323214 since 2003
Novice Permit in 2010
Racing 2011

Nigel Stu Verified Driver
Member

Region: Detroit
Car #: 66
Year : 1992
Posts: 105
Status: Offline
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Sweet - glad you found a donor. I'm looking forward to following your build - you sound a lot like me in the study/prep and desire to build to exactly what you want. I think this is a great project that will benefit more than just yourself.


I'm not sure what rules you are running to, but I thought I'd throw this little bit out there in regards to your budget....

Hardtop = ~$1000
Arm-restraints = ~$40

Normal SM rules allow you to run without a hardtop. Sure it'll be slower on tracks with longer straights, but it sure is cheaper to start with! And its generally much cooler in the car. And a very different experience.

Just make sure your cage design and seating position keep your helmet below the top of the roll hoop. Borrow a hardtop from someone to fit the cage. Buy one later.

--------------------
Ben Schaut
Schaut Speed Motorsports
GLDiv / WHRRI
#66 Blue/White/Black

Shop Teacher
Member

Region: SF Nor Cal
Car #: #39
Year : 1990
Posts: 457
Status: Offline
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Im not sure you can race SMT without a hard top. I could be wrong.

--------------------
Al Angulo
Auto Instructor
Ford Senior Master Tech
ASE Master Tech

SCCA_Racer
Member

Region: 33 SFR
Year : 1991
Posts: 167
Status: Offline
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As far as I know hardtop is optional in all SM classes but I know it is a disadvantage for drag.
Does anybody have proof/figures for how much a difference?
Ben, I had the same thought use arm restraints but how much do they inhibit my arm movement while being adjusted properly?
My plan is to install the hardtop (maybe barrow), install the seat and then ft the cage. I really like the Miata Cage best so far.

--------------------
Joshua Fine
SCCA member 323214 since 2003
Novice Permit in 2010
Racing 2011

David Dewhurst
Veteran Member

Posts: 574
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Joshua, to date basically ALL F & E production cars run without their windshields & obviously without their hardtop.

ALL open wheel, open top cars in the SCCA SHALL use arm restraints.

Racing cars is two part to me, the build is the process to get to the event. [thumbsup]

--------------------
Have Fun [Wink]

David Dewhurst
CenDiv
Milwaukee Region
Spec Miata #14

Sean Allen Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: SFR
Car #: 54!
Year : 90'
Posts: 1907
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Ron,

Yeah, that is my tub. But I changed my mind and I think I am going to have some fun with it now ;-)


Josh,

I would recommend a TC Design cage over anything else on the market today. I was considering the MC cage a few years back, but to date have had 6 TC Design cages put in cars.

Nigel Stu Verified Driver
Member

Region: Detroit
Car #: 66
Year : 1992
Posts: 105
Status: Offline
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I run my car without the hardtop at Waterford when I get the chance (e.g., time to swap hardtop for ballast and no chance of rain)

Your arms just cant go past the roll cage - Strapped in I don't have any issues and barely notice them - I can reach ignition/data/etc; just need help with the camera.

First few races, your learning curve (car set-up, race line and how to drive the car) will be quite steep, and the less drag offered by the hardtop may not have much of an impact - it might be better to save your money for a bit.

As for impact - if its nice next weekend, I can get some data for Waterford for you - top speed at the end of the straight is usually about 90. or maybe its 80 [Confused] either way - I'll run both configurations and see what I can see.

--------------------
Ben Schaut
Schaut Speed Motorsports
GLDiv / WHRRI
#66 Blue/White/Black

Viet-Tam Luu
Slow

Region: San Francisco Region
Car #: 14
Year : 1999
Posts: 453
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by SCCA_Racer:
As far as I know hardtop is optional in all SM classes but I know it is a disadvantage for drag.
Does anybody have proof/figures for how much a difference?
Ben, I had the same thought use arm restraints but how much do they inhibit my arm movement while being adjusted properly?
My plan is to install the hardtop (maybe barrow), install the seat and then ft the cage. I really like the Miata Cage best so far.

Both TC Design and Evil Genius are fairly close to you, get one of them to build the cage. If you do get the MiataCage one ask them them make one with the thicker tubing; when I was looking at cages they said they could do it. I ended up going with TC because if you're willing to do the prep work and painting yourself he'll do a cage for a really good price.

I have a hardtop you might be able to borrow.

--------------------
Viet-Tam Luu (a.k.a. "Tam")
SFR-SCCA #14 ITS
Director, SCCA San Francisco Region

SCCA_Racer
Member

Region: 33 SFR
Year : 1991
Posts: 167
Status: Offline
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Ben, Let me know what you find out if it is really noticed.

Tam, It is going to be a bit before I fully commit to the build as I want to drive the car on the street for a bit. Plus this will give me time to buy up all the needed parts before just having the car sit while I wait for parts to show up. Thanks for the offer though.

--------------------
Joshua Fine
SCCA member 323214 since 2003
Novice Permit in 2010
Racing 2011

Kim Ouye Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Retired Racer

Region: SFR
Car #: 82/73
Year : 1991
Posts: 2015
Status: Offline
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Have TC Design install the rear half of the cage first and you can continue driving it on the street. Then later have them install the front half and door bars. That is how I had them do it on my car.

--------------------
Kim

91 BRG SMT RIP
06 MX-5 Cup

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy sh*t...what a ride!'" - Unknown

George Munson Verified Driver
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Region: 83
Car #: 127
Year : 90
Posts: 284
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Joshua,

Kim has a great idea, I did the same thing on my current build. It gives you time to enjoy the car and you can still move forward with your build.

SCCA_Racer
Member

Region: 33 SFR
Year : 1991
Posts: 167
Status: Offline
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Good idea about installing part of the cage at a time, but I plan to strip the whole car down for the cage install and rebuild. I am waiting on the funds to decide what will be purchased next.

--------------------
Joshua Fine
SCCA member 323214 since 2003
Novice Permit in 2010
Racing 2011

Nigel Stu Verified Driver
Member

Region: Detroit
Car #: 66
Year : 1992
Posts: 105
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by SCCA_Racer:
Ben, Let me know what you find out if it is really noticed.

The weather cooperated just enough for me to experiment a bit. Not the best conditions for completely conclusive data. I didn't have a single lap where I had no traffic, but almost every lap I had similar drafting from a car in front.

The results? Negligible on a short track. At least on Waterford Hills. Speeds range from ~50 at slowest point in the turn before the longest straight to just over 90 at the braking zone (max speed on the track).

-With top off (7 laps used) - average lowest speed = 49.1 (following a newbie SM and a guy in an ITA CRX who hasn't been to the track in a while), average top speed = 89.4. Avg increase = 40.3

-with the top on (8 laps used) - average lowest speed = 50.2 (following a veteran SM), average top speed = 90.8. Avg increase = 40.6

I think that 0.3 mph avg increase is well within the noise of the data, especially considering the different days, different racing situation and a bar change.


And more importantly - WAY smaller of a difference that a new driver will notice during the initial stages of learning the car and getting the car set-up. I'd suggest you save your money for now and go topless for the summer!

--------------------
Ben Schaut
Schaut Speed Motorsports
GLDiv / WHRRI
#66 Blue/White/Black

SCCA_Racer
Member

Region: 33 SFR
Year : 1991
Posts: 167
Status: Offline
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That is my plan to go topless but I have a line on a couple cheap Mazda tops. If the price is right I might not be going topless.

--------------------
Joshua Fine
SCCA member 323214 since 2003
Novice Permit in 2010
Racing 2011

   

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