Spec Miata Community   
search | help | calendar | games | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hello Spec Miata Community » Sports Car Club of America » SCCA San Francisco Region » Most common: Traqmate or AiM

 - Email this page to someone! | Subscribe To Topic  
Author Topic: Most common: Traqmate or AiM
dball33
Junior Member

Posts: 6
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for dball33     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Hi,

I'm not in Spec Miata yet, but I've come to realize that there's a limit to how much improvement one can make with just going to track events. So I'm researching on which data logger to get, and one important aspect I came upon was getting a data logger that a majority of others had.

So what's the most common data logger used by Spec Miata drivers in the bay area?

Thanks for your help!


David

NV Racer Verified Driver
Member

Region: SFR
Car #: 70
Year : 1990
Posts: 768
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for NV Racer     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

David,
AiM is the most common in the region. There are a few of us with Racepak G2X units. I do not recall seeing anyone with a Traqmate unit. But with all the cars in the region there is probably some around.

Dennis

Sean Allen Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: SFR
Car #: 54!
Year : 90'
Posts: 1907
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Sean Allen   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

AIM. I know one person with an IQ3, none with Traqmate.

dball33
Junior Member

Posts: 6
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for dball33     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Thanks for responses! Over on miata.net, some said that AiM is the most common in the bay area as well.

Will a MyChron3 Gold be sufficient to start out with? It's within the budget I had (~$1000) and around the price of the other data loggers I was considering (Traqmate and Racepak G2X).

Thanks for the help.


David

Sean Allen Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: SFR
Car #: 54!
Year : 90'
Posts: 1907
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Sean Allen   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Consider spending a few hundred more (IIRC +$189) and get the AIM EVO4. It has Tri Ax GPS built in which is a huge plus.

Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: San Francisco
Car #: 34
Year : 1992
Posts: 2279
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Juan Pineda   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Get a rumblestrip racing predictive lap timer:


http://www.rumblestripracing.com/DLT3.html


Gives you immediate feedback while on track to help you ratchet your lap times down. It's more of a coaching tool than traditional data acquisition. Like having an engineer on the radio telling you your split times. I have a Mychron XG Log too, and end up using the Rumblestrip more.

-Juan

--------------------
www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

dball33
Junior Member

Posts: 6
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for dball33     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Thanks for suggestions.

It seems like I should get a DLT3 + AiM EVO4. I will have to spend more time researching these units as they were totally not in my plans. I'm sure glad I asked you guys! Please let me know if there's anything else I should consider.

Also, will SM drivers be willing to give data to someone not in SM?

Oh, I also checked Victory Lane. The EVO4 is $1,329 (~$400 more than the MyChron3 Gold). I still need to research the features of both systems, but someone on miata.net also suggested the EVO4 because of the Tri Ax GPS built in. Not too sure what that is, but I'm guessing the GPS/position locator is all built into the unit?

Thanks again for your help.


David

Greg Bush Verified Driver
Thread Killer

Region: NW/OR
Car #: 04
Year : 90
Posts: 1765
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Greg Bush     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

GPS is not a must have, but if you drink the koolaid.....

I have M3 Golds (from Roger) in both cars. I would like to add predictive lap timing and will probably get the DLT3 in the future.

There is plenty (some say too much) to learn using non-gps systems. If you get the bug for it later, used units can be sold for good money and you can upgrade.

In the 10+ years I've been using daq, I've never once been unable to get an answer to something because I didn't have GPS.

If anything it can confuse your comparison to other cars (though I don't want to start a GPS accuracy discussion here).

That extra money would be better spent on video IMO.

Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: San Francisco
Car #: 34
Year : 1992
Posts: 2279
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Juan Pineda   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

+1 on the video. I always considered video my first data system. Lot's you can learn about your driving. You can even measure lap times and exit speeds. Here's an example video:


http://www.vimeo.com/5797890


This video was recorded with a MiniDV. These days you can get something like an Aiptek HDTV camera that records to SDCard for around $200.

Also you can see the Rumblestrip (DLT1) in this video. Minus times are better. It displays the lap time for 10 seconds after S/F. The bottom number is speed.

Looking at SM data won't be very helpful to you if you are not running in SM trim, as the cars are so much different.

-Juan

--------------------
www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

dball33
Junior Member

Posts: 6
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for dball33     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Hey Juan,

Good point that you made. I didn't realize that comparing data from different trimmed cars might not be as effective. So I guess the best thing is to just have someone faster than me drive my car to collect data then?

Hmm...seems like there's much to learn on learning how to drive faster...haha.

Thanks though for the advice.


David

Brian Ghidinelli Verified Driver
Moonwalker

Region: SFR
Car #: 12
Year : 99
Posts: 267
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Brian Ghidinelli   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Juan Pineda:
Get a rumblestrip racing predictive lap timer

Gives you immediate feedback while on track to help you ratchet your lap times down. It's more of a coaching tool than traditional data acquisition.

Am I the only one who thinks that predictive lap timing is a just a silly bling feature? Practically useless in my opinion as a learning tool. I lump this in with those "theoretical best lap" times. You either do or do not complete the lap in a certain time - everything up until then is bench racing. [Smile]

Now if it actually told you split times (I suppose a GPS system could with a proper dash?), that would be useful feedback.

Definitely go AIM in the SF area. I just picked up an XG Log for my new car. Start with the basics: oil pressure and water temp, RPM and speed sensor. If you have the funds, expand to get steering input and throttle position. Those last two will open up a whole new world of analysis that doesn't require GPS. I'd rather spend more money on sensors than GPS.

Even if you're not in SM trim, you can still compare the data. Ultimately a faster driver in your car will be the most valuable though.

--------------------
MotorsportReg.com / Haag Performance / Team SafeRacer
2010 San Francisco Region SMT Champion

Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: San Francisco
Car #: 34
Year : 1992
Posts: 2279
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Juan Pineda   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Ghidinelli:
Am I the only one who thinks that predictive lap timing is a just a silly bling feature? Practically useless in my opinion as a learning tool. I lump this in with those "theoretical best lap" times. You either do or do not complete the lap in a certain time - everything up until then is bench racing. [Smile]

Hey Brian,

Have you used a Rumblestrip? It does essentially give you split (delta) times you are seeking, and that's why it's so valuable.

The Rumblestrip tells you what your delta time is -- how far ahead or behind you are from your previous best lap. So if it displays -.50 going into T3, that means you are half a second better than your best lap at that point. Actually, it's better than split times, as the delta time display is continuous, not just on segments. That delta time is a great coaching tool, as it gives you immediate feedback on how you are doing, and so helps you RATCHET your lap times down. It like having a coach on the radio telling you your split times. Very motivating.

Look at the video link I provided (ignore the racing) and watch the display to see how it works.

-Juan

--------------------
www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: San Francisco
Car #: 34
Year : 1992
Posts: 2279
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Juan Pineda   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Brian,

One other clarification. The rumblestrip is NOT predicting your final lap time.

Rather it tells you is how far ahead (minus) or behind (plus) you are at any given point vs. your best lap at that same point. The visual equivalent of that is the ghost car in driving games.

-Juan

--------------------
www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

NV Racer Verified Driver
Member

Region: SFR
Car #: 70
Year : 1990
Posts: 768
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for NV Racer     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I think predictive lap timing is more valuable than looking at the data post session. It is real time feedback. It allows you to experimental with different lines, braking points etc.. You know immediately if the change benefited you or hurt you. I went with the G2X because of predictive lap and GPS feature. Looked at AiM but the GPS options were very expensive at the time. Was going to buy the Rumblestrip when I ran across a G2X at a very good price.

Dennis

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

Region: Houston
Car #: 91
Year : 1991
Posts: 2171
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Kent Carter   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Brian, you may be the only one! I wonder if anyone who has used a predictive timer would agree with you!

At a track I know very well, I made a mistake on a lap and braked later than usual. In compensation, I took a late apex and squared up the turn and was shocked to see that the 'mistake' was quite a bit faster than the 'traditional' line. I repeated the 'mistake' a couple of times and found it was consistently quicker, but riskier. Get it right and you are fast, screw it up and you are really slow.

I keep this little trick in my back pocket for when no one is very close behind me, but I'm chasing someone in front. I would NOT have discovered it without the G2X predictive feature.

If I had only looked at the total lap time on that lap, I would have never seen the improvement because I was balked by a slower car in the twisty parts and my overall lap time was slower than average.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Brian Ghidinelli Verified Driver
Moonwalker

Region: SFR
Car #: 12
Year : 99
Posts: 267
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Brian Ghidinelli   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I hear the benefits of seeing data in real-time but there's a pretty large margin of error in using the predictive time to analyze a corner while you're driving at 60-110mph. I would see more value if the data were real segment times rather than a floating +/- over your best lap so far.

I appreciate the value as a motivational tool but I still think it's overrated. Then again I haven't used it outside of Forza where the ghost car distracts me and always makes me crash, so what do I know??! [rolling on floor laughin]

At the end of the day, more data is better than less data, and for the purpose of David learning to drive faster, I think his selection of a Mychron will serve him well from track day to club racing in our region (where the AIM is so common).

PS - Juan, I hope you've fixed your visor by now!!

--------------------
MotorsportReg.com / Haag Performance / Team SafeRacer
2010 San Francisco Region SMT Champion

Brian Ghidinelli Verified Driver
Moonwalker

Region: SFR
Car #: 12
Year : 99
Posts: 267
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Brian Ghidinelli   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
If I had only looked at the total lap time on that lap, I would have never seen the improvement because I was balked by a slower car in the twisty parts and my overall lap time was slower than average.

A great quote: "There is courage even in a meek lap". An important part (IMO) of data analysis is looking beyond the fastest laps of a session.

--------------------
MotorsportReg.com / Haag Performance / Team SafeRacer
2010 San Francisco Region SMT Champion

Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: San Francisco
Car #: 34
Year : 1992
Posts: 2279
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Juan Pineda   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Ghidinelli:
I hear the benefits of seeing data in real-time but there's a pretty large margin of error in using the predictive time to analyze a corner while you're driving at 60-110mph. I would see more value if the data were real segment times rather than a floating +/- over your best lap so far.

Hey Brian, The visor still goes up and down. I couldn't drive otherwise, as it would screw up my timing. [Smile]

And yea, the ghost car always makes me crash too. That's why I prefer the little number on the display. It's much less distracting and I can check it at my option when I have bandwidth.

I'm not sure I understand what you are objecting to re: margin of error. It's pretty straight forward. If you go into a segment with -.50 in the bank and come out still with -.50 in the bank, then you know your segment time was even with your best previous time. Where is the error?

And about using absolute segment times, I suppose that is personal preference. In my view, I care less about the absolute number, i.e. 10.3 seconds, than about whether I'm doing better or worse by a relative .2 seconds. Maybe it's just me, because my overtaxed brain can't remember a dozen segment times, so I prefer to let the machine remember them and just show me the relative (delta) times.

-Juan

--------------------
www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

dtfastbear Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
faster than the average bear...

Region: SFR / NorCal
Car #: 72
Year : 93
Posts: 1276
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for dtfastbear   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Brian - While I agree with you that data logging with post-session analysis gives you something more than just realtime data for analyzing your driving, you might be overlooking the value of real-time +/- feedback for qualifying. Nothing that I've seen gives you better information to manage a qualifying session. If you're more than a couple tenths off your fastest lap in the session, you can recognize that immediately and make a decision to back off to get better track position for another flying lap.

Just something else to consider...

Cheers,

Dean

--------------------
NASA Nor Cal SM series Director
www.molaps.com

Winner - Ford Racing Mustang Challenge Driver Shootout

Evil Genius Racing / Race Engineering / Stewart Development

NV Racer Verified Driver
Member

Region: SFR
Car #: 70
Year : 1990
Posts: 768
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for NV Racer     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by dtfastbear:
Nothing that I've seen gives you better information to manage a qualifying session. If you're more than a couple tenths off your fastest lap in the session, you can recognize that immediately and make a decision to back off to get better track position for another flying lap.

Just something else to consider...

Cheers,

Dean

+1

It's a big help. My qualifying sessions are much more productive with the predictive lap. Thinking your going fast and actually knowing it is a big difference. I have to admit It does cause some frustration when you know you are on a very fast lap and you get held up.

Dennis

dball33
Junior Member

Posts: 6
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for dball33     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

First off, I just wanted to thank all of you for giving me such great advice and guidance. Without all your inputs, I wouldn't have known what I needed in order to adequately improve my driving.

After great consideration, I've decided to go with the Racepak G2X plus video.

For my current needs and budget this was the best choice.
- The G2X has the predictive lap display feature which negated the need for the DTL3 + beacon.
- Cheaper price which would allow me to purchase a camcorder and mount + software integration.
- In the end, I just need to find one of you guys to drive my car and collect your data ^__^

Thanks again!


David

dball33
Junior Member

Posts: 6
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for dball33     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Oh, I almost forgot.

Juan, what kind of camera and mount are you using? Your videos have such great clarity and are so stable. Is it the Aiptek HDTV camera that you mentioned before? Thanks.


David

Shop Teacher
Member

Region: SF Nor Cal
Car #: #39
Year : 1990
Posts: 457
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Shop Teacher     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I have a Traq Mate linked to a Chase Cam. Its ok take some time to get the bugs out.

--------------------
Al Angulo
Auto Instructor
Ford Senior Master Tech
ASE Master Tech

Paul Mitalas Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
"Safety Second"

Region: SFR
Car #: 61
Year : 1992
Posts: 32
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Paul Mitalas     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I find the Rumblestrip to be excellent. It too can have a "ghost car" effect. I'll admit to coming off Turn 15 at Thunderhill, seeing I was .4 seconds ahead ...and forgetting to shift. Then watching that damned Rumblestrip show me in real time how hitting the rev limiter affects lap time.

Oh, and you can hang your steering wheel on it.

   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic | Subscribe To Topic
Hop To: