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Author Topic: G-Force Harness vs. Schroth and others
joer Verified Driver
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I purchased both the g force and the Schroth. Maybe they passed the same tests, but the quality of the schroth is so much better and I love the 2" lap belt on the schroth. Which is one of the reasons I purchased them.

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JD Morris Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I have a G-Force harness and I'm looking forward to getting rid of it. There are many small details that make it work much more poorly than my previous harnesses. For example, there is much more stitching at the buckles that reduce their useability as pull-up belts. There is stiffer webbing / grippier adjusters that make tightening and loosening the belts several times harder. Last, despite a great cam lock the mechanism itself is permanently fixed to the right lap belt and can't be switched to the sub straps like I've always configured my harnesses in the past.

If you have the time it's worth trying before you buy. These issues might be relevant to you or they might not... and if they aren't relevant you get a heck of a good bargain with G-Force products!

JD

disquek Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I have the Schroth on the drivers side of my car and the G-Force on the removable passengers side.

The G-Force is good for the money. The camlock is nicely made.

The Schroth is a far nicer harness. The 2" lap belts get tighter and tighten more easily. The dual sub belts on the Schroth has a nice spreader bar that the G-Force doesn't.

I'd buy either again. But I'd prefer the Schroth.

-Kyle

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I too have both. I ran the G-Force for awhile in my car, but once I purchased a HANS I went ahead and also bought the Schroth HANS harness. I now have the G-force available for passenger use. The G-Force is a very nice harness for the money, I really have no complaints about it. However, the Schroth is definitely a nicer set up. Some things that are noteworthy is the sub-belt system on the Schroth is much easier to adjust, you can tighten it while strapped into the car where as the G-Force you pretty much have to remove the seat to adjust it. Same goes for the lap belt, you can adjust both while seated, but the Schroth is easier to adjust. Is it worth pretty much double what the G-force is? Well maybe... If I wasn't running a HANS I would probably still be using my G-Force.

SM Police
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Sorry to throw another name out there but I run Crow harnesses in my car and really like them for the price. I wanted to change the cam lock on one of my belts and Fred Crow swapped them out at no charge, no shipping! Great customer service. I'd buy them again.

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Speed Dog Racing, Inc.

Dale Alexander Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I also have had both, I prefer the Schroth overall. The quality is superior & the 2" is nice also.

When it's time for a new set, I'm going to go with the Safecraft line. I checked them out at the PRI show and they make some really quality stuff. Not sure of the pricing, but they have a great product.

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Dale Alexander

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I have used Simpson, Ultrashield and GForce belts. I just bought a set of Safecraft after sitting in Charles Espenlaubs car at the PRI show. They are really really nice!! Best SM belts, I think. Great in limited space. The adjusters are at the cam, not along the belt. Much less likely to be interfered with by the seat!

I second the notion that the better made belts are easier to get tight and the more sophisticated adjusters are NOT going to slip like the GForce will.

The strength of the belts are all pretty much the same, granted, but the usability is better.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Gibscreen Verified Driver Series Champ
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I saw a set of Crow belts, and the quality of the belt itself just felt cheap, and that's compared to my GForce. With the Crow, it almost felt like I could stretch the belt myself. I'm sure they pass all the same tests, but it didn't inspire confidence.

Anyone have any experience with the Sparco HANS belts?

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Rob Gibson
RJ Racing
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Dale Alexander Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Sparco Hans 2" belts are made by Schroth. Very nice belts.

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Dale Alexander

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I have installed a bunch of different belts, most prefer the Schroth. I run the G force pro and when it came time to replace, I picked them over the Schroth and besides being less money, I like they way the feel. They are very soft and feel good. I ran the Simpson Platinum belts which were very expensive and I hated them, they were hard as rocks and just felt terrible. As far as safety... well, I guess they held my 300 Lb plus body when I nosed into the wall at Topeka at 80 mph, they should be fine for you skinny guys! [Big Grin]

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Jim Drago
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smtejas Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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drago is correct on the simpson. beef belts. kinda like using a 10,000 lbs ratchet strap webbing that is black instead of yellow.

The thing I don't like about the schroth and some of the other FIA belts is that they look like the metal adjustment bar is just as hard to reach as a lot of the others. (Note: I'm making this judgement from pictures. Never tried them while in the car). I recently tried the Ultrashields which have a RED STRAP attached to this adjustment bar. When you have to buckle yourself in, the red strap is very easy to locate whith your helmet, neck protector and gloves on.

I am in a position of needing belts this month and I'm mulling over FIA belts this time around. I would like the extra years garnered by FIA belts with the GCR, but I rather have the convenience of a strap that's easy to find over the extra years. Additionally the Ultrashields have a bunch of padding if you purchase the optional sewn in pads. (a round one at the camlock and good sewn in pads under the shoulder). The pads are very good and durable and appear like they are substantially more than most belts (You need to see them in person to realize this).

Can someone help me here and provide honest input about how easy the FIA belt adjuster is to grab and adjust when you are by yourself in the car? The adjusters I'm most concerned about are the lap belt adjuster. The uppers are easy. Ideally, someone out there has tried the Ultrashields with optional pads along with FIA Schroth belts (or similar) and could elaborate which one is easier to adjust. This would be great.

TY for any input.

Don

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Don,

I have the padded Ultrashields. Don't buy them, I'll sell you mine for a song. They are difficult to adjust, the tangs tend to bind in the camlock and won't release reliably (Ultrashield says to bend 'em a bit until they release freely). The pad is nice though.

Safecraft is bringing out a padded version soon. I have a spiffy new harness not on their website yet. Veddy veddy niiiiice.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Steven Holloway Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Don,
X2- skip the Ultrashields. The lap belt is damn near impossible to adjust. The red strap isn't as handy as you would think either.
S

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's got electrical problems.

Greg Bush Verified Driver
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I have Crow and G-Force belts both and have no complaints.

The Crow I get rewebbed every 3rd January for around $60. Last time they converted to 6 point also.

They both have a soft feel to them, certainly not like a ratchet strap.

I got the G-Force from Saferacer because of the price and FIA tag, and I'll probably replace the Crow set with G-Force next time they are due.

Why do you guys need pads on your belts?

Greg

Jim Boemler Verified Driver
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Maybe they don't have as much internal padding as we do? [Wink]

jim (no extra padding req'd)

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Just a clown

Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I have Schroth too, 3" shoulder, 2" lap. Previously I had Sparco. The Schroth adjusters work much better than Sparco. Plus the 2" belts can be configured as either pull up or pull down, which allows you to switch configurations if you find that one or the the other isn't working for you -- a common scenario.

-Juan

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www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

CarbotechDanny Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
I have used Simpson, Ultrashield and GForce belts. I just bought a set of Safecraft after sitting in Charles Espenlaubs car at the PRI show. They are really really nice!! Best SM belts, I think. Great in limited space. The adjusters are at the cam, not along the belt. Much less likely to be interfered with by the seat!

Safecraft, Safecraft, Safecraft...

The Safecraft belts are the best I have ever seen or used. If you haven't checked them out you need to.

I was a Schroth guy, but after trying out the Safecraft belts I won't use anything else.

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Danny Puskar (push-car)
Carbotech Performance Brakes
4031 Dearborn Place N.W.
Concord, NC 28027
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Puskar Motorsports
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amolaver Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Curious if those who had a negative experience with the GForce belts can clarify whether they had the 'standard' or the 'pro' models. I have Sabelt-made Sparco in the SM, but put GForce Pro in my track toy. I think the GForce are actually much nicer. The webbing material has a nicer feel to it - more flexible. This may be a nylon vs polyester characteristic. The adjusters on the GForce also have the little straps, making them much easier to loosen, and the little rolls at the end of the straps making them easier to tighten.

When my FIA Sabelt/Sparco's come due, I'll probably put the GForce Pro in.

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ahm - http://www.awesom-oracing.com
2009 NASA MA SM Champion

Jim Boemler Verified Driver
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I have the standard G-Force belts, and like you, I find them to be just great. I had Simpsons before, and the camlock on the G-Force works much better. I haven't had adjustment problems.

What I do wish somebody made was an adjuster that could be used very low on the belt, as a pull-up style with a remote release strap. The problem is that the normal pull-up adjusters want to interfere with the holes in the seat -- not too much problem for a single-driver car, but for the 25 we never did find a satisfactory belt arrangement for all the drivers.

jim

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Just a clown

CarbotechDanny Made Donation to Website
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I just checked Safecraft's website and I didn't see any pictures of their new safety harness system they had at PRI.

Call/email them to get more info on those new safety belts. Charles Espenlaub helped Safecraft design them, and they are the most user friendly belts I have ever seen.

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Danny Puskar (push-car)
Carbotech Performance Brakes
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jigou Verified Driver
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I'm sure the Safecraft belts are nice....at only $360 a set.
http://safecraft.com/product_page.asp?ProductCatID=1&ProductSubCatID=14

Oh, $255 a set if you trade in another set:
http://safecraft.com/Mrestraints-harnesses.asp

I think I'll stick with my G-Force Pro belts from Saferacer that I somehow manage to make work. Besides, I'll need the rest of that cash to replace my "outdated" FIA suit. [duck]

Jarrod

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http://www.plainoldgas.com

gbaker
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quote:
Originally posted by Greg Kimble:
...are you really better protected by the higher priced harness systems?...

Yes, you are. But, you don't know that because FIA & SFI are all pass/fail labels, so you can't separate the "A" grade belts from the "D" grade belts.

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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC

R Hale Verified Driver
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I used the first set of the new SafeCraft belts at the 25 hour, they work great.
I ordered two more set to put in my other cars. Once you take the time to look at and try the SafeCraft belts you won't go back.

Randy
Hale Motorsports
Team Patron

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Randy Hale
Hale Motorsports
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smtejas Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by R Hale:
I used the first set of the new SafeCraft belts at the 25 hour, they work great.
I ordered two more set to put in my other cars. Once you take the time to look at and try the SafeCraft belts you won't go back.

Anyone have pics of these belts?????

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quote:
Originally posted by Jim Boemler:
but for the 25 we never did find a satisfactory belt arrangement for all the drivers.

jim

Don't change drivers and its not an issue.

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All this has happened before, and will happen again

gbaker
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quote:
Originally posted by Lance Snyder:
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Boemler:
but for the 25 we never did find a satisfactory belt arrangement for all the drivers.

jim

Don't change drivers and its not an issue.
Don't you keep changing them 'til you find a good one? [Smile]

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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC

SM Police
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A set of these Team Tech harnesses came in the SM I just bought. I have used them several times and they work well. The sternum strap keeps the belts on the HANS.

http://www.teamtechmotorsports.com/racingharness/rampac.html

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Speed Dog Racing, Inc.

amolaver Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by gbaker:
quote:
Originally posted by Greg Kimble:
...are you really better protected by the higher priced harness systems?...

Yes, you are. But, you don't know that because FIA & SFI are all pass/fail labels, so you can't separate the "A" grade belts from the "D" grade belts.
any data to support that less expensive belts == less safety? its hard for me to believe that an FIA rated belt won't provide more than adequate protection for us.

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ahm - http://www.awesom-oracing.com
2009 NASA MA SM Champion

Jim Boemler Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Lance Snyder:
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Boemler:
but for the 25 we never did find a satisfactory belt arrangement for all the drivers.

jim

Don't change drivers and its not an issue.
Thanks, we'll keep that in mind for next year. [Razz]

jim

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Just a clown

Jim Boemler Verified Driver
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My understanding is that there are only a couple of manufacturers of the nylon webbing anyway -- almost nobody makes their own.

jim

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Just a clown

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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The new Safecraft belts have the lap adjusters integrated into the tangs that go into the camlock. This gives basically unlimited adjustment without any chance that the adjuster will get hung up at the seat holes or end up at your hip. It's just brilliant. Totally different from a 'pull-up' or 'pull-down' set-up. It's more like a 'pull-sideways' set-up.

It's the first time I've felt I was able to get the lap belts really snug. No binding, no issues at all.

Bravo to Charles and the team at Safecraft!

I also have their right side net. Certainly the slickest one out there.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Jim Boemler Verified Driver
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Anybody in the NW using these? Looks promising, I'd like to see them in the flesh.

jim

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Just a clown

smtejas Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Pictures should be on the way here soon. I spoke with them today. Will post them up when I receive them.

Don

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quote:
Originally posted by gbaker:
quote:
Originally posted by Lance Snyder:
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Boemler:
but for the 25 we never did find a satisfactory belt arrangement for all the drivers.

jim

Don't change drivers and its not an issue.
Don't you keep changing them 'til you find a good one? [Smile]
Don't say that.. Jim will NEVER get in the car. [Big Grin]

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All this has happened before, and will happen again

Jim Boemler Verified Driver
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If they'd stop putting curves in the road, I could drive just fine!

jim

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Just a clown

tony senese Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by amolaver:

any data to support that less expensive belts == less safety? its hard for me to believe that an FIA rated belt won't provide more than adequate protection for us.[/QB][/QUOTE]
Adam,
You know how hard I hit Randy at the nationals (head on) prolly 50 mph, came to a dead stop in ZERO feet. I have the exact same belts you do and they worked perfectly. No injury at all.

Last year when I hit the pit wall and flipped over I had the same belts (same type, different set) and again no injury.

Not sure that is data, but it's one heck of an anecdote and should teach me to stay away from Mid-O!!!!!

Tony Senese
SM-99

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Tony Senese
SM#99
2008 NASA-NE SM Champion
NASA-NE SM Director
2008 PRO-IT SM 3rd place
http://www.nosenseyet.com/coppermine

Lance Snyder Made Donation to Website
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Or teach you to stop hitting immovable objects.

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All this has happened before, and will happen again

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Lance Snyder:
Or teach you to stop hitting immovable objects.

No such thing. When confronted by a supposedly immovable object. Hit it harder!

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Greg Kimble Verified Driver
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So is it safe to say that all of the FIA approved belts provide the drive with equal (?) protection, but as the price increases, you are paying for a more "user friendly" harness?

Greg

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Greg,

I doubt that is really true. FIA or SFI approval means that the system meets the minimum standards. I have no doubt that some systems exceed the minimums, but we may not need that in our chick cars. Also, consider how carefully most of us mount our harnesses, or the lack thereof. I expect most of us use the factory lap belt holes and that may not give us the best angles.

I do agree that the better belts are easier to get snug, which is a safety feature in itself.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

smtejas Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Here are pics I received of the new Safecraft belts. Since a new season is coming and these are new belts and not on their website, I thought I'd share.


 -
 -
 -
 -

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Yep.. that's them!!

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

IPRESS Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Are these Safecraft belts only SFI rated (good for 2 years), or are they FIA rated (I think lasts for 5 years)?

They look like they have some nice features.
I have used Schroth belts ever since I got a Hans. the 2 inch shoulder belts work much better (with the Hans) then my old wide Team Techs. My only problem with the Schroths is the lap adjustments are a pain for enduro changes. In fact with my Schroth belts the lap belts are mainly never adjusted after they get set. The Safecrafts look to be easy to adjust, but if they are only good for two years while Schroths work for 5...... well it is easy to add up.

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Mac Spikes
IPRESS Racing
MER
East Street Auto
SAFERACER
Hoosier
Carbotech
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Cresson, Texas
"To hell with you Gen. Sheridan...I 'll take Texas!"

LOREN WALLACE IS MY HERO!

smtejas Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Mac,

They offer to reweb them once after purchase. Check out their website. So this will get you four years. Buy strategically at the beginning of the year and you actually can get more like 3 years on the first cycle. Read the GCR. When the belts expire, they expire on Dec 31st of the year they are stamped, not necessarily the month/year of the markings on the belt. So Jan '08 expires at the end of 2010. Almost 36 months.

At least this is how I read the GCR rule. Anyone see it differently, please let us know.

Don

[ 12-19-2007, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: smtejas ]

Steve Scheifler Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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The new adjusters on the SafeCraft belts will probably earn my business when the time comes, maybe sooner, but our biggest problem with driver swaps is the sub-belt. They are less important in our cars than something where you recline more, but I'd still like better options than leaving it loose for one driver or installing two belts.

dickball Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Juan Pineda:
I have Schroth too, 3" shoulder, 2" lap. Previously I had Sparco. The Schroth adjusters work much better than Sparco. Plus the 2" belts can be configured as either pull up or pull down, which allows you to switch configurations if you find that one or the the other isn't working for you -- a common scenario.

-Juan

Juan has shared my experience to the T. Schroth adjust much easier compared to Sparco.

Tim

CarbotechDanny Made Donation to Website
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Thanks for getting those pictures Don.

Those belts are very user friendly. Those cam buckles can be loosened up with one hand no problem. I love the little loops for the surgical tubing for enduro's.

The SafeCraft webbing has that same quality and feel that the Schroth belts have.

Mac your right about the 2" shoulder belts, they work great with the hans. Much better than the 3" shoulder belts. Actually, the people at HANS recommend 2" shoulder belts.

--------------------
Danny Puskar (push-car)
Carbotech Performance Brakes
4031 Dearborn Place N.W.
Concord, NC 28027
877-899-5024
danny@ctbrakes.com
http://www.ctbrakes.com

Puskar Motorsports
Spec Miata specialists
Chesterland, OH
216-406-8140

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Danny,

HANS doesn't really recommend 2" belts. They are very very very very careful to say that the HANS device works perfectly with either 2" or 3" belts. It's irritating to talk with them, really.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Unsafe Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Kent is right. According to HANS, the device was designed to work with 3" belts.

I've used Schroth and G-Force FIA belts with pros and cons to each. For me, the G-Force stays on the HANS better and the camlock is great. The Schroth stayed tight during the race much better, where I found myself re-tightening the G-Force. I saw the Safecraft at PRI, and it *looks* like a good piece....very secure.

--------------------
Mike Asselta
http://www.saferacer.com

Ken Tubbs Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Scheifler:
The new adjusters on the SafeCraft belts will probably earn my business when the time comes, maybe sooner, but our biggest problem with driver swaps is the sub-belt. They are less important in our cars than something where you recline more, but I'd still like better options than leaving it loose for one driver or installing two belts.

Having given numerous passenger rides at DEs I've found the best solution is to leave the sub-belt a little long and twist it up to shorten it. Certainly not optimal but it keeps the lap belt down on the pelvis where it belongs.

 
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