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Author Topic: lessons Learned from a Tragic Fire
Randy Thieme
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quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
Does anyone have any experience with how much additional brake effort it takes with the car switched off to slow the car quickly? A little? A lot but doable? Don't even consider it?

I do not have experience but I don't think it would be a problem with a Miata. Adrenaline would also be a big factor. I've heard rumors of victims of street accidents having an imprint of the brake pedal on the bottom of their shoe. Since my car is street legal I might try driving it with the pwr booster disabled just to see what it's like. Might be good to know for other reasons as well, like the pwr booster going out on it's own.

Colin MacLean Verified Driver
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1. Safety wire the pin for the fire system to the ignition key of the car. In other words, if the key is in the ignition, the pin cannot be in the bottle.

This is a bloody marvelous idea. Can't believe I hadn't thought of it before.

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Colin MacLean
Flyin' MacLean Motorsports

Randy Thieme
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Would it be legal to add a seperate switch just to turn off the fuel pump? For those of us with our kill switches mounted away from the cockpit area an alternative to moving the kill switch would be to add a seperate fuel pump switch. So if either the kill switch or fuel pump switch are hit the fuel pump goes off.

springfielddyno Verified Driver
Runoffs "MOVE OF THE RACE" (headlights)

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quote:
Originally posted by Randy Thieme:
quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
Does anyone have any experience with how much additional brake effort it takes with the car switched off to slow the car quickly? A little? A lot but doable? Don't even consider it?

I do not have experience but I don't think it would be a problem with a Miata. Adrenaline would also be a big factor. I've heard rumors of victims of street accidents having an imprint of the brake pedal on the bottom of their shoe. Since my car is street legal I might try driving it with the pwr booster disabled just to see what it's like. Might be good to know for other reasons as well, like the pwr booster going out on it's own.
while i haven't tried it, there should be enough of a vacuum resivoir that you'll still have boosted brakes for one or two stops... I believe the amount of "boost" is listed in the 1.6 service manuals as a relation of vacuum and line pressure... There are two points whick will make a line that will cross 0 vacuum.... I don't remember seeing it in the 1.8 manuals, but it may be there too...

In short, you can stop a non running miata...

--------------------
Regards,
Sam H.
www.springfielddyno.com

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Randy,
I was thinking about that too. I believe it's illegal but if anyone protested you for that they should be lynched.

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Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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The weight of the E.S.S. AFFF systems are:
2.3 litre is 7lbs 10 oz
5 litre is 16lbs 2 oz

The 2.3l is for two zones (engine or fuel cell and driver) and the 5l is for three zones (engine, driver, fuel cell)

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Paul McLester

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I believe that in a Miata we have a system where the fuel pump is cutoff if there is no oil pressure. So turning off the ignition with the key would stop the motor and the fuel pump.

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Paul McLester

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by George Munson:
I'm looking into fire suppression systems and have 2 questions. Can the bottle be mounted in the trunk and is the smaller system enough to do the job in a Miata?

Thanks,
George Munson

George,
It will fit fine unless you have a lot of other equipment back there. Make sure you have enough tubing though. I don't think 10 ft will be enough if you put one nozzle in the engine compt. The smaller bottle is the bare minimum per the requirements (2.25L). "Enough" is probably a matter of opinion but a miata is a pretty small car compared to many others. It sure beats the minimum 2# hand held fire extinguisher.

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Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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"Enough" can only be determined if it puts out the fire. It won't be enough if you have a major oil and fuel fire and you are 300 yards from a corner station.

Gibscreen Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Colin MacLean:
1. Safety wire the pin for the fire system to the ignition key of the car. In other words, if the key is in the ignition, the pin cannot be in the bottle.

This is a bloody marvelous idea. Can't believe I hadn't thought of it before.

A good idea, but only if your data acquisition runs off a separate switch. If you have to turn the ignition to accessory to upload data to your laptop, you're looking at a possible accidental extinguisher discharge.

--------------------
Rob Gibson
RJ Racing
2010 NASA Nationals TTE Champion
2008/2009 WERC Champion
2007 NASA SoCal SM Champion
rjracing.net
Weekend-Racer.com

springfielddyno Verified Driver
Runoffs "MOVE OF THE RACE" (headlights)

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quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
Randy,
I was thinking about that too. I believe it's illegal but if anyone protested you for that they should be lynched.

Fuel pump turns off with the key...

--------------------
Regards,
Sam H.
www.springfielddyno.com

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by springfielddyno:
quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
Randy,
I was thinking about that too. I believe it's illegal but if anyone protested you for that they should be lynched.

Fuel pump turns off with the key...
And, in the 1.6, when airflow through the AFM ceases or (I think) the throttle is closed.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

dkizerian Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Gibscreen:
A good idea, but only if your data acquisition runs off a separate switch. If you have to turn the ignition to accessory to upload data to your laptop, you're looking at a possible accidental extinguisher discharge.

Maybe a "laptop key" that has some huge thing attached (12" stuffed animal, 24" 2x4) so you wouldn't use it when racing, but could use it in the pits for data, and other misc things...

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Dave Kizerian
Utah Region SCCA
Road Race Director

avgjoe
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Here's my $.22 from an part time TT'r/ part time crewman.

Another option to the "remove" tags or lockwire pins to keys might be to have a place to mount your bottle pins some where on the dash or w/in drivers view when they're removed. I'm sure everyone looks at their oil pressure after they start their car so why not look at your pretty fire pins on the dash? They could be stuck through a cable tie mount or something like that.

Some one mentioned the difference in density between halon and air. While this is true, in a fire the heat generated by the fire will rise. This will cause an upward movement of the air in the fire area (more fire=more heat=more movement) and your gaseous extinguishing agent may never reach you even if it is coming from a pressurized source. We all know a feather is heavier than air but not by much and can be kept aloft w/ a slight breeze. Obviously, there are many other variables that can affect the situation. I would mount the nozzles lower near my knees/lap.

AFFF or foam systems don't necessarily put out the fire. They work by providing a barrier between the fire and the "fuel" (what ever is burning). It generally is only useful in a 2d scenario ie: flat surfaces; although it does cling to vertical surfaces. Also, materials don't actually burn; they get heated/melted to the point that they start to release gases and the gases catch fire in the presence of a spark/flame. Just some info to make an informed decision. The best solution in my opinion would be to use both. Gaseous in the drivers area, foam where the liquids are.

In terms of bottle size, think about how long it takes to get out and "fuel" loading (burnable material) instead of size of the car. If you're a taller/bigger guy and it takes you all of the 10 seconds to get out, then you must/should get the bigger bottle. If it only takes you 3 sec to get out then you could "get away" w/ the smaller bottle. Also, all that plastic stuff we put in the car will burn; cameras, DA, cool suit cooler,.... It may take longer to start burning than a sheet of paper but EVERYTHING burns given enough time and heat. But I think of the bigger bottle as insurance; how long will it take you to get stopped, how far along is the fire before you notice, what's on fire,...

This is easier said than done but remain calm and don't panic. We all know what GTFO means but poop will happen. You have to remain calm to understand what's going on around and how to deal w/ it. Your drivers door may not open even though you have clearance to open the door; calm, think, react. My radio cable is stuck on xyz; calm, think, react. Someone mentioned putting coveralls on over their drivers suit to protect it while practicing; I think you should practice in an old suit so you have a similar level of difficulty. The coveralls may not have extra stuff/material that might get stuck/caught on stuff during egress. Why is my epaulet caught on the window net hanger; calm, think, react. Practicing in a similar drivers suit should reveal some of these pitfalls but the heat of the moment is a different animal.

Here should be another obvious one: RTFI. Also known as Read The Full Instructions. Understanding them is helpful too. If you have questions ASK! I also worked tech for NASA MW looking for pins and got the same story from a driver about how that one (on the bottle, mounted on the floor out of drivers reach) had to stay in so it didn't accidentally discharge. WTF??? Many others didn't give me a warm fuzzy that they knew how there system worked. Everybody that buys a DA setup knows how to make it give them some information back because they had to RTFI.

I'm an industrial fire fighter at work (not a real one but some training/experience) and the best thing to do in terms of surviving a fire is to not have one. I know: DUH!! When you're building your car look for how things are routed; keep liquid lines out of crush zones, free of pinch points. How can debris get to this fuel line? No rubber fuel/brake lines anywhere. Also pay attention to coolant lines; prevent a wreck and you also prevent increasing the chance of a fire. Fully understand why that minor leak won't stop. On another car I had a rear diff leak that I couldn't stop. As I was installing the third gasket I noticed that the Al diff cover had a tiny crack that went through the cover. DOH! Obviously cracks don't get better and if I was in a wreck (where anything can happen) it could have dumped gear oil on me or someone else and caught fire. Poop happens. Work on your car sober, sane and awake! Yes another master of the obvious. Don't learn how to assemble braided fittings on your fuel/brake system; spend an extra $30 bucks to buy some extra hose fittings to develop your technique then test them. Pressurize the hose and try to break it open, carefully of course. If you have some one building your car: TRUST BUT VERIFY! They may be the best shop in the world but they're human. Know what your looking for, if it ain't right have them make it so. If you're not sure have them explain it, get a second opinion. They should understand. You're in that seat not them.

I know how much more fun it is concentrating on being/going fast and many of us will never have to face some of this games most dangerous situations, but in most any endeavor PREPERATION + LUCK = SUCCESS. Soap box out.

wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Halon is heavier than air, so a halo around the roll cage would not help much, if you were upside down, and on fire.

George Munson Verified Driver
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Thanks Guys for the answers. I'm guessing adding a small system to my bare minimum is better than nothing. [thumbsup]

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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George

Maybe this is enough!

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/19/video-prematur...-suppression-systems-att/

[help]

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Paul McLester

Qik Nip Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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Average Joe's got some extremely valid points. While I've never left the safety pin in my foam system, two years ago I came off the track only to realize that I'd run the race without my helmet chin strap fastened. Of course I had the HANS secured to the non secured helmet!

With all the attachments, (cool shirt, radio, hans, helmet, belts, and yes fire system), I'm gone to a check list that my bride rattles off each time I strap in.

As for practice exiting the car, I plan to don the old race suit this weekend and get some (closed eyes) practice!
Rick

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Fortune Cookie Racing SM 60
Directions for use: Race, Rumple, Repair ... Repeat!

TimBuck Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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SCCA Pro requires an Exit Test before you are cleared to run any of their series. You need to be in full gear (HANS included) and be belted/netted in. You then have 15 seconds to:

Unbelt
Hit the kill switch
Hit the fire system button/pull
Drop the net
GTFO with feet on the ground

(I've see Charles Espenlaub do it in about 4.5 seconds)

Maybe it's time that Club institued a similar test. Perhaps an addendum in the log book?

On a similar note, SCCA Pro also does a mirror test at the same time (How many fingers do you see in RH mirror, LH mirror, and interior mirror). Also not a bad idea.

--------------------
Tim Buck

MAZDASPEED Motorsports Development
Mazda North American Operations
phone (800) 435-2508
fax (949) 222-2650

zoom-zoom!

Lance Snyder Made Donation to Website
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Just make sure the radio is not hooked up.

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All this has happened before, and will happen again

Qik Nip Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Lance Snyder:
Just make sure the radio is not hooked up.

I figure if it's for real, the radio and cool shirt connections are history. I plan to do the "tensile strenght disconnect" for both.
Rick

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Fortune Cookie Racing SM 60
Directions for use: Race, Rumple, Repair ... Repeat!

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by TimBuck:


On a similar note, SCCA Pro also does a mirror test at the same time (How many fingers do you see in RH mirror, LH mirror, and interior mirror). Also not a bad idea.

Hmm... I wonder what they think you ought to see out of your side mirrors. I think this is matter of driver preference, but I set mine up so that they see what is between my peripheral vision and the interior mirror... In other words, what is in my blind spot. If they stand close to the car by the rear bumper, I won't see them. If they step out 3 feet, I see them.


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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

cam Verified Driver
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I just orderd this kit (Link) . $314.99, free shipping if club racer. From my research from a couple of days of poking around, this looks like the best bang for the buck. Should be installed and ready by the next race.

Thanks for all of the great input and tips and Cajun Miata Man for point me to the kit.

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"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
~Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
~Thomas Jefferson

Griff W Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by TimBuck:

On a similar note, SCCA Pro also does a mirror test at the same time (How many fingers do you see in RH mirror, LH mirror, and interior mirror). Also not a bad idea.

Based on my experience at Daytona, the "how many fingers" test ought to be done from directly in front of the car in addition...

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The best way to make a small fortune in racing is to start out with a big one.

wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Based on my experience, the "how many fingers" is usually ONE.

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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15 seconds to get out is a lot. When I thought I might be on fire it seemed to take about that long or longer but I reviewed my vid and it was about 6 secs from when I stopped to when I was standing in front of the car. I'm not even sure I opened the door. It seems slow and awkward when practicing but I shot out the window like a champagne cork! Amazing what you can do when smoke is pouring out and people are running at you with a fire-x. [yep]

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Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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CAM

Do you know if it is user refillable like the E.S.S.?

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Paul McLester

cooleyjb
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Nope, it can be refilled at a number of places around the US though.

Gibscreen Verified Driver Series Champ
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I've been wanting to get a fire system to supplement the fire extinguisher for a while. This is pushing me over the cliff to actually do it.

--------------------
Rob Gibson
RJ Racing
2010 NASA Nationals TTE Champion
2008/2009 WERC Champion
2007 NASA SoCal SM Champion
rjracing.net
Weekend-Racer.com

gbaker
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REMEMBER THE LOST JD

[ 08-29-2009, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: J.D. ]

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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC

EBudman Verified Driver
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Dang Greg, I thought I was cold... Whether that is irresponsible speculation or a cold, hard fact... neither seems appropriate right now. [twocents]

Eric

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Doubly inappropriate since his motivation is presumably to continue pushing his "Isaac is better than HANS" agenda. [Frown]

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Stephen Hui - '95 SM #86, Northwest / Oregon Region SCCA

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The debate is over. I will not buy an Isaac.

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Lee Tilton
1993 Meowta #04
Brimtek Motorsports/ Team Four Racing
Team Four Racing

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Gregg, it's bad enough that you misrepresent your product, it's worse when you do stuff like that.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

ethan666
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quote:
Originally posted by gbaker:
removed JLH

Eyewitnesses report that you don't sell many Isaac systems because of posts like this.

[ 08-29-2009, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Jason Holland ]

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ethan

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Greg Baker

I live in Orlando and will personally come and discuss your post with you. I just returned from the memorial service (didn't see you there) where the mother and family are distraught over the misinformation being posted on several internet websites. I was at the scene...you have no idea what happened and should shut your mouth. You disgust me. Look me up if you want to come see me first.

I would ask the moderators to please delete Mr. Bakers post in an attempt to not cause the family more suffering.

Thanks J.D. and Jason

[ 08-29-2009, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: Gatoratty ]

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Paul McLester

cnj
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Mr. Bakers posts (read over several years) appear to support a marketing strategy of offending and annoying to promote his product. Very unusual.

Back to a useful and important discussion.

1. I have left the bottle pin inserted on my fire suppression device - discovering it at the end of a race day. Scary. I have never left the pin in on the dash mounted T pull (visually obvious). I plan to tie wrap the bottle pin to the mounting structure so that it can't be inserted unless I do maintenance. I will take the chance that someone removes the T pull pin and triggers the unit. Better a recharge of the unit and cleaning out of car than a burn unit.

2. I can get out of my car HANS on, door closed, steering wheel on while impeded by the head restraint seat. But I am a skinny guy and I doubt that a 200 pound driver could do the same. Certainly a NASCAR roof exit would be much safer/faster for a broader range of body sizes. I would not like to try exiting upside down. Certainly unclear how I would practice it. On that note, several years ago one of the TX drivers rolled his car, released his harness and broke bones in his neck. Few have enough strength to hold our body weight steady with one arm while releasing harnesses with the other. I certainly don't. Unless I am on fire - I intend to stay upside down until the safety crew arrives. Hope I remember this post...

3. I have no idea why the GCR excludes SM and others from requiring a nozzle fire system. This should be changed in my opinion. Using the phrase "personal responsibility" in the same sentence as people who motor race is oxymoronic.

Craig J

Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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After the fire scare at Sebring Nov 2008, I started taking more precautions wrt to fire.

I have always got into and out of my Miata with helmet and Hans on, so that I get used to exiting fully clad. I have timed myself and with everything connected, including radio and drink bottle, it takes about 10 seconds (not quick enough) and of course that is without having to come to a stop and no panic!

After Sebring I took my really cool DTM style peak off my Arai GP5W and added a visor, which I now run in the down position as soon as I exit the pits.

I have a sequence checklist for exciting my car on the boss of my steering wheel, but it was designed for fast pit stops in enduros and I doubt that I would look at it with flames in the cockpit.

IMHO, the sequence for exciting the car fast, has to be a reflex reaction, and this only comes from multiple mind numbing repitions embedding the sequence in the subconscious. I doubt that anyone can practice this enough. And practice it with the Visor Taped Over - i.e. so that you are doing it in the dark, simulating a car engulfed in smoke. And try and hold your breath through this process to avoid inhaling flames and charring the lungs. As I say I doubt that you can practice this enough. It needs to be in the muscle memory.

In the 2007 Panoz series, Joe Middlebrook (now running Mustang Challenge) had a fire at Sebring, pulled his car to a stop on the start/finish line (good move) but on the wrong side, not up against pit wall (bad move) but most importantly could not get his window net down. He managed to exit from the passenger side.

That day we all practiced getting the net down and exiting from both sides of the car. This can be tough with a Petty style bar, and don't forget to remove the rightside net if you have one.

Recently there have been several very telling videos of a flash fires in cockpits, one of a monster truck flash fire lasting less than 10 seconds but completely engulfing the interior (shield down) and of course the Tony Kanaan incident last month (shield down). Fortunately both escaped unharmed.

Fire is not something to be taken lightly, and your response needs to be well thought out and rehearsed in advance of this unfortunate possibility.

[ 08-30-2009, 06:28 AM: Message edited by: Danny Steyn ]

--------------------
Danny
http://www.dannysteyn.com
http://www.adeptstudios.com
OPM Autosports | Traqmate | Rossini Racing Engines
2010 June Sprints Champ, 2010 ARRC SMX Champ
2009 SARRC Champ, 2009 SEDiv ECR Champ, 2009 FES Champ
2008 SEDiv ECR Champ

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Mediocrity rules!

Region: SouthEast
Car #: 28
Year : 95
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Baker,
I will never buy one of your products and I will counsel anyone who will listen not to either. Mostly because of posts like this.

I'm warning you now as an administrator of this site, If I see another post from you this repulsive or even a hint of you trying to capitalize on this terrible situation, I will ban you permanently.

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Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: Central Florida
Car #: 3
Year : 1992
Posts: 1304
Status: Offline
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The reason I started this thread and the others regarding the accident was to raise our awareness level and learn from each other so as to try and avoid this in the future. Alan was a passionate racer who I am sure would want us all to enjoy our sport and be safe.

The ideas and stories have certainly made me re-think how I have been approaching my own safety. Thank you everybody for contributing.

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Paul McLester

Teamfour Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: WDCR
Car #: 04
Year : 1993
Posts: 519
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I will be installing a fire suppression system in my car next week.

I am considering putting the bottle inside the cockpit so I can SEE the pin in the bottle.

Is there any pros/cons to locating the bottle in the cockpit vs. the trunk?

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Lee Tilton
1993 Meowta #04
Brimtek Motorsports/ Team Four Racing
Team Four Racing

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

Region: SoCal
Car #: 13
Year : 1992
Posts: 847
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Teamfour:
I am considering putting the bottle inside the cockpit so I can SEE the pin in the bottle.

Is there any pros/cons to locating the bottle in the cockpit vs. the trunk?

I mounted a 5-litre ESS System very low on the tranny tunnel adjacent to my butt (passnr seat area). I can see the pin in the bottle (which I have left in a few times), the T-handle is on a blank-out-plate where the radio used to be (I've left that pin in before too)...

I'm not sure if there is an advantage to this location or not but achieving a 50/50 cross has never been a problem. Due to this thread, I made some florescent ribbons to attach to the pins.

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Dusty Bottoms Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
99 all the way!

Region: Lone Star
Year : 1990
Posts: 4253
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When I built my car, I went with an AFF system. I liked the idea of a user refill. I'm sure in case of a fire it wouldn't have crossed my mind, but I never wanted the issue of doubting whether I needed to deploy the foam or not to come into play. For $50 refill, I think it's even worth a test once a year to make sure nothing is clogged and to make sure there are no leaks or cracked lines and even to evaluate whether the nozzles are in the right place.

Edit: I forgot to add, the pull-knob for the system was mounted to the transmission tunnel within reach of me. I figured it's not a corner worker's job to deploy my system...they'll do their best with their bottles, it's my job to deploy my system. I put Dayglo orange laces hanging off the pin. The handle/knob pin only went in for transport, it was out for the whole weekend. I never bothered with the bottle pin. I only had 2 nozzles but I think 3 are more appropriate. One for the fuel rail side of the engine bay, one for the driver foot well, and I think one above the driver's head would be appropriate in the Miata since the tank is right behind. Oh yeah, when I painted the interior I added some ceramic insulating stuff to the paint which is supposed to help with heat (doubtful) but it does have the advantage of providing excellent traction. I'm thinking if you have a foam film system, you should make sure the footwell area has good traction even when soapy.

I sealed the tunnels to the trunk with aluminum flashing and intumescent sealer. I also took the liberty of re-routing the tail/brake light wiring through the passenger side so the driver's side could be sealed completely. There is no advantage as far as weight distribution and it makes for a very nice perfect seal on the driver's side. I saw some really nice sealing jobs done on JP3's cars with a steel plate welded to the hole. My next car will combine my ideas with his.

Edit #2: My bottle was on the decklid area. It is always in view. I just made sure to put good reinforcement under the decklid so it would hold in a big wreck.

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"Your victory is tainted! Asterisk! Asterisk!!!"--Lisa Simpson

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

Region: Houston
Car #: 91
Year : 1991
Posts: 2171
Status: Offline
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Has anyone given any thought to why we keep that huge flammable chunk of black plastic in front of the driver? Do we really need a dash?

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Region: kc
Car #: 20
Year : 92
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When I was appointed to the ASAC, the first thing on my agenda was to allow for the removal of the dash in all ASedans. Not only is the dash flammable, but the smoke is toxic. The old guard wanted to keep the dash, since the cars would look less stock. I argued that the only people who ever saw the inside of my car were the tech folks and me. Eventually the rule was re-written.
My ASedan fire was prior to the dash removal, but only a small portion of the dash was touched by the fire. And, that was long after I had bailed.
wheel

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

Region: Houston
Car #: 91
Year : 1991
Posts: 2171
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Wheel... I totally agree with you. The smoke from a burning dash can very quickly incapacitate a driver (one byproduct usually found in the smoke is cyanide) and can actually keep rescue workers at bay. It's really noxious stuff and the fire is very hard to extinguish.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Dusty Bottoms Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
99 all the way!

Region: Lone Star
Year : 1990
Posts: 4253
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I looked inside a 944 Cup car and they don't have dashes. Seems like easy to wire and debug and less places to hide "stuff".

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"Your victory is tainted! Asterisk! Asterisk!!!"--Lisa Simpson

Muda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
ComingToAMirrorNearYou

Region: WDC
Car #: #23
Year : 1991
Posts: 642
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quote:
Originally posted by Antonio Garza:

I sealed the tunnels to the trunk with aluminum flashing and intumescent sealer.

Can you recommend a good brand of sealer and where to buy it?

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Muda Motorsports
"We're all here 'cause we're not all there."

Dusty Bottoms Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
99 all the way!

Region: Lone Star
Year : 1990
Posts: 4253
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I got it at Home Depot or Lowe's from the paint section. I don't know the brand.

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"Your victory is tainted! Asterisk! Asterisk!!!"--Lisa Simpson

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: Central Florida
Car #: 3
Year : 1992
Posts: 1304
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I used 3M Fire Barrier Sealant CP 25W. It says that it will last for 4 hours in a fire. I bought it at Home depot. They use it for sealing conduit holes in buildings. They also have an expanding foam fire barrier that works great for filling seat belt towers, etc.

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Paul McLester

 
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