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Author Topic: Firecharger AFFF system still legal
Blix Verified Driver
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Year : 1990
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I'm about to put the fire supression system in my car, and I have a Firecharger 2.3L AFFF that I could use, but I'm not clear if its still legal with the new rule changes for 1/1/09.

SM rules state that we don't have to have a "real" fire system, but must have at least a hand held system. (Section 9.3.23 in the GCR). So I'm unclear, does this Fire Charger system meet the minimum requirements? (or am I going to have to mount a fire extinguisher in the cockpit as well)

Thanks

E

--------------------
Eric
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Dave Gomberg
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The first question is: does the car have a pre 1/1/09 logbook? If not, AFFF systems are not allowed unless they carry the appropriate SFI or FIA certification.

If the car has an earlier logbook, you still need to read GCR 9.3.23 carefully. There are some specific requirements for AFFF systems.

Your AFFF system does not qualify as a hand-held extinguisher under part B or 9.3.23.

Dave

Blix Verified Driver
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Thanks Dave. I'll look for the FIA certification when i'm up at the shop next. If not, I'll buy an extra hand held and put it in there.

I need the ballast anyway.

--------------------
Eric
http://www.hale-motorsports.com
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John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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What is the requirement for the new rule?

Here is what is on their site, the certification fee is $140.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ESS is proud to have recently been certified as meeting SFI spec 17.1. We intend to continue to provide the best possible system to the racer in either the pro or the amateur arena. In keeping with the terms of meeting those requirements and our agreement with the SFI Foundation, the following processes will be followed:

1. All 17.1 tagged systems will be filled and sealed in the service center prior to shipping.
2. Field recharging can only be performed by a certified service center or certified personnel.
3. A new foil label will be signed, dated, and applied to the manifold head to prevent tampering.

Non-SFI certified ESS systems will still be available and will continue to be shipped empty. These systems may be re-charged in the field by the owner using the ESS recharge kit of the appropriate size for the system.

All of our systems utilize the best materials and assemblies available to provide you with a system that can protect you and your vehicle to the highest degree possible.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Blix Verified Driver
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OK so here's the deal. I spoke with a VERY nice person at ESS, who explained to me that they used to make firecharger, there was a split, and it appears firecharger has gone away, while ESS is using a very similar technology.

However, they cannot certify Firecharger systems to SFI 17.1 because they didn't make them, so they can't verify the history of the suppliers of the parts, etc. The guy said they were very very similar, but there was no paper trail for them to follow and make sure everything was A-OK.

Sooo...looks like I will be installing this system to use, and then adding a handheld to meet the letter of the law.

E

--------------------
Eric
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Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Gomberg:
If the car has an earlier logbook, you still need to read GCR 9.3.23 carefully. There are some specific requirements for AFFF systems.

Dave, can you be more specific? I've got a Firecharger system and pre '09 logbook. What might I have to change to meet the rules?

-Juan

--------------------
www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

Dave Gomberg
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quote:
Originally posted by Juan Pineda:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Gomberg:
If the car has an earlier logbook, you still need to read GCR 9.3.23 carefully. There are some specific requirements for AFFF systems.

Dave, can you be more specific? I've got a Firecharger system and pre '09 logbook. What might I have to change to meet the rules?

-Juan

Well, I could tell you to go read the GCR [Wink] , but here is what it says about AFFF systems:

The following is acceptable for cars registered before 1/1/09:
On-board fire systems shall use Halon 1301 or 1211, with a five pound minimum capacity (by weight). Alternatively, on-board fire systems may use AFFF or equivalent surfactant foam material, 2.25 liter minimum capacity (by volume). All AFFF fire system bottles shall incorporate a functional pressure gauge and shall be marked with the manufacturer’s recommended “filled weight.” CO2 cartridge propellant fire extinguishing systems are permitted provided that the seal of the manufacturer specified CO2 cartridge is not punctured and the fire bottle is equal to the weight specified by the system manufacturer.


In addition, all the other general installation requirements for a system must be met.

Dave

Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Dave, Thanks for the info. The way I read it, there are no issues for pre '09 logbook cars with Firecharger. Is that the case, or were you thinking there were some issues?

BTW, looks like Firecharger is still in business:

> http://www.firecharger.com/

I thought that they had been taken over by ESS, and that Firecharger went away. But whatever happened, it seems that Firecharger is back in business.

-Juan

--------------------
www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

Dave Gomberg
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quote:
Originally posted by Juan Pineda:
[QB] Dave, Thanks for the info. The way I read it, there are no issues for pre '09 logbook cars with Firecharger. Is that the case, or were you thinking there were some issues?...]

The GCR does not refer to Firecharger. It addresses AFFF systems in general. My point was that you (or anyone using any AFFF system) need to be sure your system satisfies the other requirements. (I am not familiar with Firecharger or any of the other AFFF systems.)

Dave

Blix Verified Driver
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OK, this is interesting...

From the 2010 GCR:
9.3.23. FIRE SYSTEM
All cars shall be equipped with an On-Board Fire System except Showroom Stock, Touring, Spec Miata, and Improved Touring.

Below that:
B. Hand-Held Fire Extinguisher Requirements
The following are acceptable for Showroom Stock, Touring and Improved Touring cars:


So...that means all cars except SS, IT, Touring, and SM need on-board fire systems, but hand held ones are only suitable for SS, IT, & Touring.
Hmmmmm...that doesn't seem right!! What are we supposed to do, carry a travel coffee mug full of water?

--------------------
Eric
http://www.hale-motorsports.com
For all your Mazda and Mustang needs

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Good catch. Who did we piss of to not be able to use any kind of fire-x in SM?

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Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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SM rules in 9.1.8 require a fire extinguisher. It doesn't say what type!

9.1.8.9.b. Installation of a fire extinguisher or fire system is required. See
GCR 9.3 Fire System.

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Paul McLester

Blix Verified Driver
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so i'll start all races with a mouth full of water?

--------------------
Eric
http://www.hale-motorsports.com
For all your Mazda and Mustang needs

   

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