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Author Topic: SFI DeCertifies all Impact Products
wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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http://www.sfifoundation.com/

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WOW

--------------------
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Is this saying that if you have any Impact gear with an SFI rating, that rating is no longer valid? Even for things made in the past?

In other words, if you have an Impact suit, it's no longer SCCA legal?

Double ouch!

-Kyle

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Read the post carefully.

"Impact has been directed to cease and desist from this practice. SFI has directed Impact to immediately notify all affected customers to remove the counterfeit labeling and to offer the affected customers a full refund of the purchase price. SFI is requesting that all counterfeit conformance labels removed from Impact products be sent to SFI.

SFI has elected not to decertify these products immediately in order to minimize the potential hardships to members of the racing community that have been brought about by Impact’s counterfeiting activities."

That being said, some tech inspectors may choose to make you replace the belts, etc.

David Dewhurst
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***In other words, if you have an Impact suit, it's no longer SCCA legal?***

SFI has elected not to decertify these products immediately in order to minimize the potential hardships to members of the racing community that have been brought about by Impact’s counterfeiting activities.

--------------------
Have Fun [Wink]

David Dewhurst
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wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I have asked SCCA for a clarification of their position on this problem. As soon as I learn anything, I will post it.
wheel

SCCA responded immediately. They will be issuing a Racing Memo, which will be distributed to the tech teams and will be posted on the website.

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Which company was it that had the counterfeit Hans anchors again? [scratchchin]

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Does the tag make the suit protect more better?

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Kyle Freiheit
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If so, I want my tag to be really really big.

Kyle

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Tag, is that what you call yours?

Greg Arsenault Verified Driver
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Bill is quite the character. I remember him from my drag racing days. No suprise to me here.

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quote:
Originally posted by JimEli:
Does the tag make the suit protect more better?

I assume the point is that there's no guarantee that an SFI-tagged Impact product has actually been tested and passed (as evidenced by their counterfeit HANS anchors last year), not that the tags they put on are cheaper.

I'm pissed since I just spent a lot of money to buy and install an Impact harness.

--------------------
Stephen Hui - '95 SM #86, Northwest / Oregon Region SCCA

DarylD
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quote:
Originally posted by PedalFaster:
I assume the point is that there's no guarantee that an SFI-tagged Impact product has actually been tested and passed

There isn't a guarantee that ANY SFI-tagged product has been tested and passed by the SFI. Impact simply wasn't buying their labels from the SFI.

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How do you know they just made their own labels (and hans collars)? They obviously weren't playing by the rules in a couple of areas. What other areas did they skimp on?

--------------------
Keith Novak
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CLee
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I guess someone didn't pay the "licensing fee and/or unit charges..."

http://www.sfifoundation.com/about.html#question4

Hopefully they will get this resolved.

From what I read, the products are fine.

quote:
From SFI Website:
...Evidence obtained by SFI shows that over a period of years Impact Racing has engaged in the production and use of counterfeit SFI conformance labels and patches, and affixed them to Impact products for use in motorsports. Under the Contracts of Participation between SFI and Impact, SFI conformance labels and patches may only be obtained from SFI and no other source...


Kyle Freiheit
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quote:
Originally posted by PedalFaster:
quote:
Originally posted by JimEli:
Does the tag make the suit protect more better?

I assume the point is that there's no guarantee that an SFI-tagged Impact product has actually been tested and passed (as evidenced by their counterfeit HANS anchors last year), not that the tags they put on are cheaper.

I'm pissed since I just spent a lot of money to buy and install an Impact harness.

Man, that sucks Steve. I just bought a Gforce with FIA and SFI.. whew.

Look at it this way though, in a few races you can start your own crash rating system like SFI. You can call it the SHITS(Stephen Hui Institute for Testing Standards). "Stephen Hui crash tested, Steve Hui approved!"

[Smile] See you Sunday!!

Kyle

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Watch for a Racing Memo soon, from SCCA.

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quote:
Originally posted by SFI:
SFI has elected not to decertify these products immediately in order to minimize the potential hardships to members of the racing community that have been brought about by Impact’s counterfeiting activities.

All this means is that the decertification is effective on April 27th, 2010.

The question is, on April 28th, 2010 is someone's Impact suit no longer legal in SCCA, SVRA, NASA, etc? I'm imagine that the answer is, yes it's illegal. This sucks.

I have a Simpson suit, but a good friend has an Impact.

-Kyle

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Does this affect Impact Helmets as well???

--------------------
Jason Ball

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SA2005 is a Snell certification.

--------------------
Keith Novak
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I know that, but if they are circumventing SFI it stands to reason that they are circumventing Snell Certification as well???

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Jason Ball

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Agreed but each organization, SFI, SNELL, ANSI, etc. have their own certifications so they can pull their own, but they can't pull each others.

--------------------
Keith Novak
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quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
so they can pull their own, but they can't pull each others.

[rolling on floor laughin]

Sorry, I have to find some humor in this.

Dusty Bottoms--owns Impact suit and Impact shoes.

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"Your victory is tainted! Asterisk! Asterisk!!!"--Lisa Simpson

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They used counterfeit labels. It did not say that they had circumvented SFI certification. My guess is that SFI charges per label for items that come under their certification. Impact probably passed the certification process, but had their own labels printed so they wouldn't have to pay SFI.

Just a guess. Watch for the SCCA announcement. I doubt that SCCA will let this fester for too long.

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quote:
Originally posted by wheel:
They used counterfeit labels. It did not say that they had circumvented SFI certification. My guess is that SFI charges per label for items that come under their certification. Impact probably passed the certification process, but had their own labels printed so they wouldn't have to pay SFI.

Just a guess. Watch for the SCCA announcement. I doubt that SCCA will let this fester for too long.

Yep, when I ordered my suit in 2004 (or 2003?) it didn't come with an SFI label. I complained and they said they do that b/c not all clubs require SFI compliance so they don't put the labels on all suits. I sent my suit back and they added the label to it.

--------------------
"Your victory is tainted! Asterisk! Asterisk!!!"--Lisa Simpson

DarylD
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The huge huge difference between the SFI and SNELL is that SNELL actually requires testing and creates the testing standards.

SFI requires that participating manufacturers (members who pay SFI per patch/label/sticker) "pinky swear" that the products that they are putting the labels on meet the certification specs. Certification specs that those same SFI member manufacturers get to create.

DarylD
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Before you throw the baby out with the bathwater...

Not all Impact products are decertified (window nets for example)...only those with SFI 3.2A, 3.3, 16.1 or 16.5 specs are affected....incidently, that may be all the Impact items you own but does not cover every Impact item sold.

SFI roll bar padding also does not come under any of the specs listed above.

Kyle Freiheit
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SFI-Patch-ALMS...QptZApparelQ5fMerchandise

Umm....

DarylD
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So he bought a suit that is both SFI and FIA, doesn't need the SFI patch....might be helping someone else who got their suit back from the laundromat without their patch [Wink]

I'm sure none of us has ever purchased a set of SFI belts that had manufcatured dates in the future [Wink]

The SFI patch shouldn't carry any weight at all. Unfortunately, that isn't the case yet.

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I heard a couple things this morning.

1- Nobody is saying the products are bad or inferior. Only that the patches are counterfiet. Make you own decisions!!!

2- NHRA has decertified ALL products from Impact effective in a few weeks. NHRA and SFI have very close ties.

It really bothers me that the man who pioneered racing safety, Bill Simpson, has become involved in such a nasty situation.

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I half agree with Daryl but only half.

The SFI does have specs and standards and in many cases they require testing. They do copy a lot from other cert agencies but most other cert agencies do too, even federal ones. The member companies contribute to the specs, but that's pretty standard with certification agencies too and for good reasons.

I'm not all that impressed with what a manufacturer has to provide to show they met the spec. I seem to remember reading one and thinking... "So you can have an HVAC engineer witness a dynamic sled test, sign off on the data and that's good enough?"

--------------------
Keith Novak
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyle Freiheit:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SFI-Patch-ALMS...QptZApparelQ5fMerchandise

Umm....

ROFL!

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Colin MacLean
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Here's a response from Impact.

http://www.impactraceproducts.com/

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Keith, I agree. I come at this from a medical device manufacturer's viewpoint having sought approvals from the FDA and also the European CE process. You have several elements to the process including:

1. Some process for deciding what the standards should be. The more innovative the product, the more difficult this is. Some standards come down to "does it look well made?"
2. Some process for testing, if possible or needed. This requires validated processes and a reliable test vendor.
3. A manufacturer who plays by the rules. This means they test honestly and manufacture/sell exactly what they submitted for the test.
4. A certification house that monitors the manufacturer.

I think racing safety gear certification is a bit hit-or-miss on every element of this (so is the FDA) and neither the FIA or SFI do a great job. And how many sanctioning bodies have made people pull the FIA seats out of their cars that were decertified?

SFI has to act to make sure their label means something. If Bill Simpson is willing to sell counterfeit HANS anchors and label his products with fake SFI labels in contravention to his agreements, who is to say he is using real anything?

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quote:
Originally posted by various posters:

1. Some process for deciding what the standards should be. The more innovative the optimization, the more difficult this is. Some standards come down to "does it look well made?"
2. Some process for testing, if possible or needed. else the optimization is allowed. This requires validated processes and a reliable test vendor.
3. A racer/engine builder/dyno tester who plays by the rules. This means they test honestly and race exactly what they submitted for the test.
4. A certification house that monitors the monitors.

...sounds familiar [duck]

--------------------
Darrell Wheeler
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quote:
who is to say he is using real anything?
That's one of the problems...who is to say that anybody is using the real "anything" other than that person's word?

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3rd Party Certifications work on the honor system. My company has several of these type certification UL, ETL, NSF. They inspect product every 3 months if product is available when they show up at your facility unannounced. Our NSF label was pulled about 6 months ago due to non matching paperwork. We had to go through this appeal process, pay for additional inspections, write all sorts of letters. But thankfully it never went as far as court. And our label was never really pulled in the end. It looks like Impact just pissed off their inspector or couldn't verify the origin of some of their materials. Hopefully for everyone it gets resolved without too much more. Or else I'd say its lights out for Impact, sad to say. I like their helmets and they are Made in the USA.

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quote:
Originally posted by DarylD:
quote:
who is to say he is using real anything?
That's one of the problems...who is to say that anybody is using the real "anything" other than that person's word?
In the end, this is the most important criteria of them all: can you trust the maker?

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

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If it was the first time maybe....but this is the same company that had counterfeit Hans anchors on its helmets. Not just counterfeit labels.....but the anchors themselves were counterfeit. Hans had to send out a notice to the world to make sure nobody got hurt using an Impact helmet with fake anchors.

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Someone reminded me of this over the weekend...I think they're also the ones who had the issue with their drag racing suits a year or two ago. If that's right, I'd wager they weren't in great standing with the SFI foundation already.

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quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
In the end, this is the most important criteria of them all: can you trust the maker?

That is the most important thing to keep in mind, and as a person with an Impact suit, I just placed my order for the $295 Sparco suit SafeRacer has right now.

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Wine Country Motorsports is offering owners of Impact racing gear a 20% discount if they trade-in their stuff for a Sparco product.

http://campaign.constantcontact.com/render?v=001o1NWE3yaJ-r3k...kKex2k2c_vhoe9vEQKMerI%3D

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Paul McLester

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Here's a racing memo, from SCCA.

RACING MEMO
DATE: March 31, 2010 NUMBER: RM 10-04
FROM: Club Racing Board
TO: All Participants
SUBJECT: SFI Decertification of Impact Products
SCCA is aware of the action taken by SFI against Impact Racing. We are in the process of determining what action (if any) will be needed for our drivers. We will communicate the outcome to our drivers, tech personnel and stewards via member email and website posting when the answers have been determined. Until further notice, it is business as usual and as long as your safety products have SFI certification (patch/sticker) that meets our current GCR requirements, you would be considered compliant.

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UPDATE: SFI has recinded some of the decertification (2009 and 2010) and they are jointly working on investigating the other years prior to 2009.

http://www.impactraceproducts.com/pdfs/2010/SFI%20Press%20Release_04012010.pdf

--------------------
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RACING MEMO

DATE: April 22, 2010 NUMBER: RM 10-05

FROM: Club Racing Board

TO: All Participants

SUBJECT: SFI Decertification of Impact Racing, LLC. Products

Per the attached press release, products manufactured by Impact Racing, LLC prior to 2009 are decertified and do not meet the criteria for SCCA competition as required by our General Competition Rules (GCR). Drivers who have purchased items from Impact Racing, LLC that do not have a date in them should contact Impact Racing, LLC to obtain a letter confirming the manufactured date of their items. If the date of manufacture is prior to 2009, it is the driver’s responsibility to correct the situation.

SCCA is delaying enforcement of the decertification pending further evaluation. More information will be shared as it becomes available.

In the interim each driver should evaluate their personal use of the affected equipment.

--------------------
Keith Novak
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I imagine this puts the final nail in Bill Simpson's coffin as a respected manufacturer of racing safety gear.

SFI PRESS RELEASE - Response to the Impact Racing Press Release of April 22, 2010

April 22, 2010 - Yesterday, SFI advised the racing community that Impact Racing suits bearing 3.2A/5 certifications “made prior to 2009 have been constructed with non-compliant materials that, in SFI’s judgment, pose a safety risk to users of those suits.” Impact responded by attacking SFI certification programs (although Impact and the other major equipment manufacturers have agreed to and participated in the development of these well-established programs); by claiming it could not get a fair hearing of the decertification appeal (although Impact asked for and received an expedited appeal procedure); and by claiming that “SFI’s actions have caused racers unnecessarily to question their safety.” It is this last point that requires a very specific response.

Scientific testing just conducted on 2008 Impact 3.2A/5 suits has determined that the thread melts away in a fire. This causes the fabric to come apart since there is no longer thread to hold the suit together. SFI believes this poses a significant safety risk to the racer involved in a fire. Rather than being constructed with Nomex (heat resistant) thread, the suits were constructed with some sort of unknown non-compliant thread that melts during heat testing. This thread failure is contrary to the SFI specifications that Impact agreed to follow.

The reason that this failure was not discovered sooner is that Impact provided SFI with Nomex thread samples in order to get their products tested and certified initially. Manufacturers are only supposed to provide samples of the actual materials to be used in their products. It appears that Impact failed to comply with this procedure regarding thread. Finally, one suit tested failed to have the proper thermal protective properties in the material itself. Again, such a failure poses a significant safety risk. This safety failure by Impact is consistent with a pattern of non-compliance:

1. Last year, SFI discovered that Impact SFI 3.2A/15 and SFI 3.2A/20 rated fire suits produced in 2007 and 2008 were also made with thread that melted during testing. In addition, these suits were often poorly constructed, without sufficient protective layers of Nomex material. SFI ordered the immediate decertification and recall of these potentially dangerous products.

2. Last year, SFI discovered that Impact SFI 3.3/15 and SFI 3.3/20 boots produced in 2008 were defective. Their materials failed heat resistant testing. SFI ordered the immediate decertification and recall of these potentially dangerous products.

3. Hans Performance Products discovered last year that Impact deliberately manufactured and sold counterfeit Hans helmet clips and attached them into the helmets of unsuspecting customers. These foreign made knock-offs were inscribed with the “SFI 38.1” inscription. Impact has never participated in this program. These counterfeiting activities were occurring at the same time that Impact was manufacturing counterfeit SFI conformance labels and patches. Hans filed suit against Impact in federal court last year in Atlanta. SFI intervened and joined in the suit against Impact. That suit is pending.

4. In 2004, SFI discovered that Impact gloves bearing SFI 3.3/20 specifications were made of material that was too light and failed heat resistance testing. SFI ordered their decertification and recall.

Impact’s press release claims that there “have been no burns or other injuries reported to Impact by any racer wearing Impact Race Products since its inception.” If this is true, the avoidance of injuries is due in large part to the policing of Impact products by SFI.

SFI was heartened when Impact finally admitted its own fault for previously making non-compliant gloves, boots, suits and helmet clips and acted to address those problems. SFI holds out the hope of a similar outcome regarding its pre-2009 3.2A, 3.3, 16.1 and 16.5 products, and that it will act in the best interests of the racing community without further prodding by SFI. However, admission of their fault will not change the fact that these products remain decertified and that Impact’s participation in all SFI programs will end June 22, 2010.

For a downloadable .pdf of this press release, please click on the following link: http://www.sfifoundation.com/PressRelease04-21-10.pdf



SFI PRESS RELEASE

April 21, 2010 - SFI issues the following press release. Please review this carefully:

1. Impact Racing has withdrawn its appeal of the decertifications of its products bearing SFI 3.2A, 3.3, 16.1, and 16.5 specifications manufactured in the years 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008. The decertifications of these products are now permanent.

2. The decertifications are based upon a number of the affected products being non-compliant with SFI specifications concerning labeling and construction. In addition to the presence of non-compliant SFI tags and the absence of DOMs on products, 3.2A/5 suits made prior to 2009 have been constructed with non-compliant materials that, in SFI’s judgment, pose a safety risk to users of these suits.

3. Impact Racing is permitted to maintain the certification for products bearing SFI 3.2A, 3.3, 16.1, and 16.5 specifications manufactured in 2009 and 2010. SFI’s investigation of the labeling and construction of these products is ongoing. Impact’s participation in the SFI specification programs ends June 22, 2010.

4. Any Impact product with SFI specifications 3.2A, 3.3, 16.1, and 16.5 without a date of manufacture (DOM) is deemed to be a decertified product unless the manufacturer has provided the product user with proof that it was manufactured in 2009 or 2010. This proof must be presented to track officials upon request. Impact believes that its products made in 2009 and 2010 have the DOMs affixed to products to the extent mandated by SFI specifications.

For a downloadable .pdf of this press release, please click on the following link: http://www.sfifoundation.com/PressRelease04-01-10.pdf

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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"Scientific testing just conducted on 2008 Impact 3.2A/5 suits has determined that the thread melts away in a fire. This causes the fabric to come apart since there is no longer thread to hold the suit together."

Not very scientific. I have no relation to Impact but I'll defend scientific testing.

I've tested threads unscientificly in my basement. I've taken threads unravelled from FAA certified fire resistant fabric, put a Bic lighter to them and they burned nicely. Then I took the woven fabric the thread came out of and did the same thing. It didn't even char. If I learned anything in years of R&D with fire resistant materials, it's all bets are off until you test the final material with all the layers present.

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Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Greg Bush Verified Driver
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Did the nomex thread originally provided for certification melt too?

If not, then the bait and switch is on....

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Pack Fodder

Region: NWR / Oregon
Car #: 88
Year : 95
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From everything I know, Impact was playing some pretty dirty pool. I own a pair of their decertified boots. They are crap and I won't wear them.

I just get irked at some of the "testing" nonsense I see sometimes though. Case in point...you can use steel wool and a few D cell batteries to start a fire. You can then throw a soup can in the fire and it will still be there in the morning.

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Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Case in point...you can use steel wool and a few D cell batteries to start a fire. You can then throw a soup can in the fire and it will still be there in the morning. [/QB][/QUOTE]


HUH?

 
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