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Author Topic: NASA considering down-sizing race weekends to one day
Sean Allen Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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http://norcal.nasaproracing.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=146

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I predict the response will be very negative.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

dtfastbear Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
faster than the average bear...

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If you have any alternative ideas, please either post them here or PM me and I'll make sure they get to Jerry. I think we all expect that the average racing budget is going to take a bit of hit (understatement?) in 2009, so what can the sanctioning bodies do to help drivers get maximum enjoyment?

I know NASA is listening and will make changes quickly if we all get behind one idea or another...

Cheers,

Dean

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NASA Nor Cal SM series Director
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Winner - Ford Racing Mustang Challenge Driver Shootout

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NV Racer Verified Driver
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1 day race weekends ignores the cost of transportation to the track. If you run 2 races the cost per race will be less. In Addition, I wonder if rentals fees for the tracks will be higher per day also.

Dennis

Sean Allen Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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What about allowing racers to choose one or two days, similar to how it is with HPDE? This way people who are on a super budget can choose to ONLY race on Sunday (money race) while others can continue to race both Saturday and Sunday?

tony senese Verified Driver
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I assume by splitting the classes that means two races in one day per class. In most cases this would save me very little money as it is almost impossible to avoid at least one nights hotel because of the distance to our tracks here in the Northeast. This also puts a BIG emphasis on preparation. I know lots of guys who drive to the track Friday with lots of stuff to do to their car before they get on track. Tough to do with 5 or 6 sessions in one day. I think it would be worth trying in our area just to see if it works.

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Tony Senese
SM#99
2008 NASA-NE SM Champion
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Qik Nip Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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Personally, I can't see that any savings would come from this idea. I spend at least $150 in gas alone (at $4 per gallon)to get to/from the track.

I agree with Tony however to allow folks to select either a one or two day participarion level.
Rick

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Fortune Cookie Racing SM 60
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d mathias Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I imagine this is a west-coast proposition only, but I'll give my opinion anyway (surprise, surprise). If NASA made one of the days race groups only, with perhaps an AM race and PM race - and the other day could be for HPDE/TT, it might change my plans to participate in NASA events in '09, which currently are extremely limited (maybe one event max).

Dennis Brown Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I personally think it is a great idea. If you could have races on either Saturday or Sunday and then HPDE on the other days I would certainly do it. My issue is that with the three kids doing stuff it makes it hard to get away all the time for the entire weekend.

As far as the tow goes the amount of money out of pocket is the same.

Dennis

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I don't see NASA running the HPDE on separate days. At least in the NorCal region, having HPDE drivers see the different classes racing is one of their ways to grow more interest.

I stay at the track, and with the size of my race trailer I have to come in early enough to get a parking spot in our crowded pits anyway. So while a single day for both of my races sounds good, it won't stop me from having to take Friday off of work to get tot he track and set up. Even if I only get to race on Sunday.

Kevin

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One Stop Race Shop

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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A Big part of a racing weekend is travel expense, and the time to travel. I dont see that helping any so what is the point, unless we can get the same amout of track time in one day as we would in two. Will the cost for entrance fees be cut in half?

Pat

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keeping the faith for the 1.6

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d mathias Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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My biggest complaint with NASA is the way they pack so many groups into one day. This year I've qualified at 10 am and raced at 5:30 pm. That's a lot of downtime. With little wiggle room in the schedule, when an on-track incident requires clean-up NASA gets back on schedule by shortening the race groups. I know that the HPDE groups are NASA's bread and butter and I doubt they will ever be moved to separate days, but like I said above, NASA won't have little old me on their entry lists.

dtfastbear Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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A couple clarifications as food for thought as we mull this over and discuss it.

1 - Yes, I think that this is a NorCal-only proposal at this point, but obviously if there was a good idea for change that everyone liked, it could move East, North and South from here.

2 - The thought was NOT that you'd get both races in on one day, but rather that you'd get just practice, qual and [one] race in on one day and that the entry fee would be significantly reduced. So literally, it's a half weekend rather than a full weekend.

3 - I don't think the "pick your day" proposal would be effective, as the car counts in the classes could/would drop considerably in any given session as people elect only saturday or only sunday.

4 - Part of doing this would be to address the "packing issue" with the number of car classes that NASA has. If Legends ran one day and Spec Miata's the other, there would be more quality track time on any given day for all participants.

5 - As Keving pointed out, the mix of racing and HPDE is part of the NASA culture. Love it or hate it, it's part of the DNA right now.

Another idea could be to have a smaller number of events but retain the full weekend format. So, if there are 10 local NASA events, perhaps SM's only race in 7 of them, but those events would be less crowded since one of the other groups will always be absent...

Let's keep the discussion going. This is all valuable input!

Cheers,

Dean

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NASA Nor Cal SM series Director
www.molaps.com

Winner - Ford Racing Mustang Challenge Driver Shootout

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Sean Allen Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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According to that write up it would NOT be two races in one day. The race 'weekend' would turn into a single day with a single practice/qual/race.

I still the think idea of giving an option like they do in HPDE is a good one. Allow racers to pick to race on ONLY Sunday, or both days.

Dennis Brown Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Either way I am for it. I liked running the SCCA National all in one day at Gingerman a couple of years ago. I will reguarly go to the Sunday only race in a double regional format. Time is my enemy and others have different situations. Time will be what ends my racing career at least for a few years.

Dennis

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If the race group was one day and the hpde was the other, it may help with HPDE instruction.

Currently instructors are running from race group to instruct and back to race group again. Its tough just keeping gas in the car.

This may also free up many more instructors that currently don't instruct because of their racing taking all of their time.

Instructing HPDE miatas should ultimately help insure the future of the SM class.

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Jacob Groves Verified Driver
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These are all valid points and HPDE is kind of annoying but as someone mentioned earlier this is how they grow interest in the real racing. What better prospects than guys that are already lapping in their street cars. One plus of the HPDE is that when your working on your car and finish you can hit up the next HPDE group for some testing.

1 day events would only save me $100 hotel and I'm guessing a little on entry fees....if I'm blowin 1k a weekend I want both days.

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Jeremy Pike
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I'm not counting on a MONEY RACE next year. I won a few hundred bucks but I don't think it attracted as many people as they were planning.

Plus the same guy keeps winning all the money.

Part of it may have been the scheduling conflicts between NASA and SCCA.

How about more track time? I woulnd't mind higher entry fees if I got more practices each day with some comparable cars from another class. This might take away from the people who put on track days, but if I can give NASA half of what it would cost to show up a day early for a track day and still get more more track time than I am now it might be a win win for all.

And I really like the way NASA does 2 seperate days. Practice, qualify, race.

Gibscreen Verified Driver Series Champ
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I like the option of doing only 1 day. NASA can make it so that if you choose 1 day, it's designated by NASA which day (Sunday would be a better day to designate).

I have skipped race weekends because for whatever reason I couldn't be there Saturday and didn't want to pay full price for just Sunday. That's money lost for NASA. By the way, SCCA does individual day racing.

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Rob Gibson
RJ Racing
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Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I'm really impressed. In the Southwest Division of the SCCA we hear the regional racers complain about Regional/National events because they only get one day of racing out of it for their towing time. I would never have expected this response.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Brian Cates
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Really do not understand the logic here unless it is to keep people from going to out of town races.

For example, why would I tow 8 hours to go to Mid Ohio to run an out of region race? Not worth the tow money for one race. Now for 2 races it might make a little more sense, but for one race that might get shortened to 2 laps, no way.

If NASA is concerened about turnout and keeping the racers happy, it would seem to make more sense to allow competitors to run one day only with practice, qualifying and race on the same day for 1/2 the price of a 2 day weekend. Plus allow more drops for those who want to contend for a championship but can't afford to make all the races. This offers more flexability in schedules but would also keep those happy that would rather do 2 races a weekend and simply do fewer weekends.

One of the main reasons I prefer to race with NASA is the 2 race weekend format as comparred to the SCCA in our region that only has one.

I would rather spend 4 weekends at the track to get 8 races in verses 8 Saturdays or Sundays. For those that cannot make races both days, the one race format per day works too, we just need more drops allowed.

Brian

NASA racer since 2002
SCCA racer since 1985

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

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Rob has a good point that I overlooked. The Houston Region SCCA does single day races, just always does two of them on consecutive days. If that is what NorCal NASA is proposing, I think it will work.

Sat: Each class gets practice, qualifying, and a race for $XXX
Sun: Each class gets practice, qualifying, and a race for $XXX
Do both Sat and Sun -- get a discount.

Is that the idea?

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

dtfastbear Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
faster than the average bear...

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I don't think that was the original proposal, as in addition to the economic issues, NASA is trying to deal with the problem of having so many race classes plus the TT plus the HPDE... This is the issue Mathias brings up.

I've corresponded with Jerry and he's considering exactly the kind of program that Kent just articulated. You could even have separate "Saturday" and "Sunday" championships to accomodate folks who want to run a more limited, more economically attractive schedule. Allowing more drops helps, too...

Perhaps the above PLUS a rotating schedule so that each class races a subset of the total number of weekends (at least here in NorCal where NASA does 10 weekends a year) might address the too-many-classes, more-track-time-per-day and cheaper-alternatives-flexible-schedule issues.

Great discussion, guys!

Cheers,

Dean

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NASA Nor Cal SM series Director
www.molaps.com

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Tvance13
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Coming from karting where we raced every weekend I can't imagine one race day a month. Once you've towed up to the track the more track time the better. Assuming the current format that would total 80 minutes of track time. So our typical tow to any LA area track would be anywhere form 3 to 6 times the amount of time that we would actually be on track. Last year So Cal kicked around the idea of using warm up times to set the grid, running a qualifier race and than a main event based on finishing order. I would vote for this on Saturday and Sunday. Points for all 4 races and maybe a reduced count of race weekends. Once you spend the money to get there you may as well race as much as possible.

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http://TylerVanceRacing.com

   

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