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Author Topic: SoCal NASA: Aug 1st & 2nd, 2009 @ Cal-Speed - ROLL CALL
Tvance13
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Hey Sean - Someone beat you to it -

Venom Performance Control Module - Venom 400 Engine Management Piggyback - Achieve horsepower gains up to 25% over the midrange 1,000 to 5,000 rpm. The venom 400 is an add-on control unit that features its own microcontroller. This module is connected to the vehicle's sensors and increases engine performance by monitoring the sensors output characteristics and modifying the input signals to the vehicle's existing computer. The unit activates at about 25-30% Throttle Angle and tells the ECU to provide a more aggressive set of fuel and ignition maps than it would normally provide.

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http://TylerVanceRacing.com

SWDouglass Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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In the next ECU swap, I have dibbs on Tylers.

That will really suck if William gets Dqed because Sammy's ECU is found to be illegal and William ran the race with it...one has to be careful with whom they swap ECU's...always practice safe swapping...ok ill stop now...

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31st in the nation. If I could keep the car on the track and put on the oil cap I could be in the top 20.

Gibscreen Verified Driver Series Champ
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The ECU was swapped into William Jr.'s 99? I heard it was supposed to go into a mid-packer's car. How did it end up in William's?

Curiouser and curiouser...

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Rob Gibson
RJ Racing
2010 NASA Nationals TTE Champion
2008/2009 WERC Champion
2007 NASA SoCal SM Champion
rjracing.net
Weekend-Racer.com

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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quote:
Originally posted by SWDouglass:
...one has to be careful with whom they swap ECU's...always practice safe swapping...ok ill stop now...

Nice Sean... Seems like you got a bit classier post Vegas trip. [Roll Eyes] You talk like that in Utah and you spend the night in the cooler. [Razz]

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Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Brian B
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It was a great weekend, I’m bummed that I broke down during Sunday qualifying, but Saturdays racing was great.

I have some great video I plan on editing and getting up soon.


What really bothered me and obviously a lot of others was the fact that there are clearing some serious bending of the “spec” rules. When I came in after the race on Saturday I was amazed on how low my HP must be compared to a certain competitor. I voiced this to a few in our pits and I got the following said from many “oh thats XXXXX he has a cheater motor”. But he does not finish in the top 3 regularly so he does not get inspected.
A few of our other regulars came to the same conclusion that his motor was “a monster” in the words of our resident Brit. I think that the only way to stop this obvious cheating is public shame. I hope these cheaters get the message and change there ways and see the value to winning on driving skills and not a cheater motor. This is true if you’re fighting for 1st or 7th!

My $.02

Looking forward to seeing you all at Miller next month.

Brian.

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Brian Bender
SM 64

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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Public shame... or pool some money together and throw paper at him.

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It really makes my week when nobody crashes into me.

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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Rob is right. Last weekend was the first time (in 3yrs) someone mentioned getting cash together for a bond... I heard a bunch of complaints about a few "monster" cars, but just one guy was thinking serious enough to do something. [twocents]

Regardless, I plan to meet with several people @ MMP next month to find out what is feasible given the time & resource constraints we have in SoCal tech... My goal before the end of this season (when I step down as Director to go Karting with my 5yr old) is to understand & equip our Tech so this sort felling/perception no longer exists.

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

jeremybarnes
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You're right Brian, i did call it a monster. That said, i was able to use that monster for a monster tow around the oval -- even though it took me 2 tries to get close enough coming out of the last corner so he couldn't break the draft -- to secure my first SM pole. Gotta use the monsters to your benefit when you can!

Jeremy Barnes
Yellow SM14

cert24 Verified Driver
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The logic of the swap works fine.
If the ECU was tuned for a specific power band and function, as a modified ECU would be with a little dyno work, there would be a performance change when installed in the stock car. If the competitors car Sunday in which the modified ECU was installed wouldn't operate properly, there was obviously something done to, or wrong with, the ECU. No other changes were made to the vehicles. It is obviously quite unusual that the rev limiter does not function any more.
Since no modifications are allowed to the ECU, the check to see what was done (and why one of the fast cars no longer operated properly with the ECU change) was the proper test.
While you might think the modified ECU would make ANY car faster, that is not the case. ECU modifications are designed to tweak the power for the motor it is used for. Particularly if there are other modifications to the motor (ie larger injectors, cam etc) the modified ECU may not make the stock car run faster, and may cause deterioration in performance.
Lets see what the testing shows. I would hope NASA is straight forward enough to make that information pubic. How about it, John?

Gibscreen Verified Driver Series Champ
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Mueller has done an excellent job of keeping us all informed and I'm sure we'll all have answers soon. Until then I agree with Mueller's earlier comments about the potential stigma just for having parts pulled for testing, and how we should all be careful with any speculation.

After all, isn't the point of testing to eliminate the unsubstantiated speculation?

--------------------
Rob Gibson
RJ Racing
2010 NASA Nationals TTE Champion
2008/2009 WERC Champion
2007 NASA SoCal SM Champion
rjracing.net
Weekend-Racer.com

Gibscreen Verified Driver Series Champ
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Mueller has done an excellent job of monitoring this situation and I'm sure we'll all have answers soon. Until then I agree with Mueller's earlier comments about the potential stigma just for having parts pulled for testing, and how we should all be careful with any speculation.

After all, isn't the point of testing to eliminate the unsubstantiated speculation?

--------------------
Rob Gibson
RJ Racing
2010 NASA Nationals TTE Champion
2008/2009 WERC Champion
2007 NASA SoCal SM Champion
rjracing.net
Weekend-Racer.com

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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quote:
Originally posted by Gibscreen:
Mueller has done an excellent job of monitoring this situation and I'm sure we'll all have answers soon.

Thanks Rob

quote:
Originally posted by cert24:
I would hope NASA is straight forward enough to make that information pubic. How about it, John?

Personally I want to publicly announce what the findings are (in detail), but I'm not aware what NASAs policy is so I'll have to default to that.

I expect something to be announced no later than Monday.

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Jonathan Christian Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by John Mueller:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jonathan Christian:
[qb]..

Problems arise when impound/tear-down/swaps occurs solely based on reputation or accusations In essence, I think it would be bad if we started witch hunting... Who'd be next? Hmmm, don't you win often? [Big Grin] [duck]

John, unlike some i have no problem with my car being torn down to every last bolt, heck ill even give you my car for a week to inspect at your leisure [thumbsup] ill even swap cars with you for qualifying so you can start up front [yep]

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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Sounds like a great idea Jon... Can I bum it over the Nationals week ???

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Jonathan Christian Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by John Mueller:
Sounds like a great idea Jon... Can I bum it over the Nationals week ???

for a rental fee... [yep]

Shawn@sampsonracing.com Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Man its great to be back in SM.... [duck]

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Shawn Sampson/Sampson Racing Communications
Offical NASA Racing Communication Company
NASA SM/PTE/E3
2005- 1st Place EO 25 Hour Enduro NASA 86' Mazda Rx7 (RIP)
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Toll Free -866-396-7231

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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Okay here is the deal...NASA took the ECU taken from the #77 to Mazda to be tested, it was found to be non-compliant:

Mazda plugged the ECU into a Miata at their location to serve as the test vehicle. It started and ran fine, but did find a few issues when trying to confirm the calibration using IDS.

a. No check engine light with the key on/engine off
b.Unable to run self test or retrieve DTC’s-got no communication message
c.Unable to view Mode 1 powertrain data, again got message of no communication

The lack of communication shows a deviation from the factory programming. With OEM ECU plugged back in to the test vehicle, we were able to view the Mode 1 data, run the self test and the check engine light operated correct, so the issue is with the ECU, not the test vehicle.


As a result, SoCal NASA's Race Director has DQ'd #77 for Sundays race only.

If you have specific questions please PM or email me, I will do my best to answer them.

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Tvance13
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The 77 car has run in every Teen Mazda Challenge event this year. I find it hard to believe that the ECU was changed for one race (Sundays at Cal Speed). The car was likely non-compliant for the entire series.

Given the point structure for the Teen Challenge and a single DQ on Sunday at Cal Speed the Driver has mathematically won the title. A mechanical DQ receives last lace points minus 2 positions. Heck, he would even win if he was DQ'd on both Saturday and Sunday in the final race at Thunder Hill.

Congratulations Ryan on your 2009 TMC West Series Title. We wish you luck at the Mazda Factory Driver Shoot out later this year.

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http://TylerVanceRacing.com

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Mediocrity rules!

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quote:
Originally posted by Tvance13:
The 77 car has run in every Teen Mazda Challenge event this year. I find it hard to believe that the ECU was changed for one race (Sundays at Cal Speed). The car was likely non-compliant for the entire series.


Congratulations Ryan on your 2009 TMC West Series Title. We wish you luck at the Mazda Factory Driver Shoot out later this year.

While your supposition may be true, I don't see how it can be proved. Live by the rules, die by the rules.

This is really unfortunate for everyone involved.

I applaud John and the NASA staff (and Mazda) for getting to the bottom of this.

JAson

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Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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quote:
Originally posted by Tvance13:

The 77 car has run in every Teen Mazda Challenge event this year. I find it hard to believe that the ECU was changed for one race (Sundays at Cal Speed). The car was likely non-compliant for the entire series.


Understood. NASA says they have no way to prove it was in the car or not...

quote:
Originally posted by Jason Holland:
I applaud John and the NASA staff (and Mazda) for getting to the bottom of this.

Jason

Thanks Jason. SoCal NASA and Mazda gave this the time and respect this deserved given what is at stake. What now needs to be done is to try to get some information on how to identify this sort of "non-compliance" out to the Tech Sheds around the country.

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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The shootout is a composite score, right? The judges might simply torpedo him (or give him a bonus :-P)

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It really makes my week when nobody crashes into me.

Triple B
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Does any one have a link to the sequence of photos coming out of NASCAR turn to @ the start of Saturdays race. I heard it was a great shot of a sea of SMs and one car spinning around.

Thanks
Bob

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"Nobody will out brake Drew........nobody"

Brian B
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quote:
Originally posted by Triple B:
Does any one have a link to the sequence of photos coming out of NASCAR turn to @ the start of Saturdays race. I heard it was a great shot of a sea of SMs and one car spinning around.

Thanks
Bob

video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGZaJyLIfWA

I'm uploading the rest of my video as I type... will post more later tonight.

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Brian Bender
SM 64

Brian B
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here
Are are some clips from my saturday race.

THE START and first 2 laps (again)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGZaJyLIfWA

into the race...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMWllpJJJmg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17KOaptmeAU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfIYOR9kcgE

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Brian Bender
SM 64

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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quote:
Originally posted by Brian B:
quote:
Originally posted by Triple B:
Does any one have a link to the sequence of photos coming out of NASCAR turn to @ the start of Saturdays race. I heard it was a great shot of a sea of SMs and one car spinning around.

Thanks
Bob

video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGZaJyLIfWA

I'm uploading the rest of my video as I type... will post more later tonight.

Nice move to avoid Bob spinning @t3

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Tvance13
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Jason - You are correct, this is an unfortunate situation for all involved. And at the core is a series that awards points for a mechanical DQ. If a car is found to be non-compliant I can't understand why a series would award any points. As outlined above, the current leader could be DQ'd for non-compliance in not one but three races and still win. With that type of points structure why not try and bend the rules.

Also unfortunate is NASA's final decision. If we hope to put an end to this type of behavior we need to do more than slap a competitor on the wrist. Why not also apply some type of probationary period and a stiffer penalty if the behavior continues. Let's make them think twice about breaking the rules again. Rental or no rental, at the end of the day the driver is responsible for ensuring a car is legal for competition.

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http://TylerVanceRacing.com

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by John Mueller:
Nice move to avoid Bob spinning

+1 great hands!

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It really makes my week when nobody crashes into me.

CLee
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quote:
Originally posted by Tvance13:
...Rental or no rental, at the end of the day the driver is responsible for ensuring a car is legal for competition.

Sorry to see Ryan involved with a cheated up #77 rental. Ryan's a good driver so he doesn't need those illegal mods. If he gets DQ'd in ur Championship, I hope he can get a refund for his bad rental.

HWJunkie
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quote:
Nice move to avoid Bob spinning @t3
If you look in Brian's rear view camera, I was the red car that went on the other side of Bob, so we both got lucky on that one...

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Marc Simon

cert24 Verified Driver
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I do feel this topic is of more than local interest and that it perhaps should be on the main forum discussion site (with the follow up discussions on the same issue that make little sense without this thread). Unfortunately I don't know who you to ask to move it.
Bill C

ryanellisracing71
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quote:
Originally posted by CLee:
quote:
Originally posted by Tvance13:
...Rental or no rental, at the end of the day the driver is responsible for ensuring a car is legal for competition.

Sorry to see Ryan involved with a cheated up #77 rental. Ryan's a good driver so he doesn't need those illegal mods. If he gets DQ'd in ur Championship, I hope he can get a refund for his bad rental.
Thanks for the support Clement. Sunday was a lot of fun racing with you! Thanks for running me clean...and good luck for the rest of the season.

Brian B
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quote:
Originally posted by cert24:
I do feel this topic is of more than local interest and that it perhaps should be on the main forum discussion site (with the follow up discussions on the same issue that make little sense without this thread). Unfortunately I don't know who you to ask to move it.
Bill C

agreed.

this is my first year racing spec miata, after 10 years racing shifter karts. I have enjoyed the spec miata more than any year karting.

This last race was an amazing eye opener, i just previously assumed that everyone was on the up and up, and there was no cheating...

My eyes were opened when i followed a clearly hopped up miata (for 10 laps), I just could not keep up even in his draft and even when he made mistakes... then upon finishing the race, only to be told by a large number of racers... "oh thats XXXX he has a cheater motor..." this was very sad to me and burst my bubble that spec miata was a level playing field.

I hope that public scorn with the "known" cheaters will be enough to stop them. The cheaters seem to be the people who don't race regularly with us, the regular racers would never cheat and risk the scorn of the rest of us, just to win a freaking six dollar trophy.

guess that make $.04 of my opinion.

--------------------
Brian Bender
SM 64

SWDouglass Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I have not officially met Ryan, so I cannot judge his character personally.

To a kid, still maturing, I may suggust that he be forever mindfull of his own character. One's character may be stomped upon by others, but can only be truelly destroyed by his own actions. Once destroyed, it is very difficult to ever rebuild it. So again, Protect it at all costs, for after the 20 minute race concludes with the checker, you must still live amongst your peers for the rest of your life.

I assume, and hope that he truelly had no knowledge of the car's legality and that he simply lucked out by finding a well sorted out but legal car. Its difficult for any of us, as racers, to assume that we would have pulled our own car into the paddock because we were unexplanably making great power. Especially with the stakes of the teen challenge as a result. Character is easy in the long term, but not as easy in our short term, individual actions.

I have alot of respect for the kids and their parents and crew for the amount of blood sweat, tears, and especially money they have dedicated, with hopes that their kid will have the opportunity to rise higher in the racing ranks. Hopefully those same parents will work as hard to build their kid's character as they do to build their cars and their racecraft.

Even after the rulings have been made, the individuals involved still have the opportunity to correct the injustice and in doing so buid character and thus respect. Fellow racers must also be very careful immediately praising this claim, if their cars lie or have lied ANYWHERE in the grey area. Under a microscope, we may all find ourselves illegal in one form or another. The difference for most of us is that we are not competing for the opportunity that the teen challenge provides and our driving abilities hide any advantage that may have been gained. (It's not right, as racing occurs through out the pack, but it is true which is also ultimately a judgement of our own characters.)

My main concern is the car builder/owner that set up this up and coming driver with an illegal car. Parts break, things happen, but I believe this owner knows better. In my opinion, his cars have always demonstrated to be very well sorted out and maintaned on a national championship level, so the excuse that the part unknowingly became defective doesn't hold water with with me. In addition, his reputation of having cars DQed in the past doesn't lend well to his character and respect of fellow racers. Whether this reputation was known by Ryan or his crew when he rented the car is not known to me. But assuming it was not, I hold the owner personally liable for setting this young driver up to have his character and reputation stomped upon early in his career. And then not come to his support when the disqualification was announced is unforgivable...

With the love of the racing, we, as veteran drivers, all have a responcibility to the sport, to demonstrate to each other and especially the newer drivers, the importance of character. May we be forever mindful of that.

Just my $.10 (sorry Brain but it was a little longer than your $.04)

Stepping down from soapbox. (blast away) [duck] [duck] [duck] [duck]

Just my opinion out of the love of racing,
Sean

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31st in the nation. If I could keep the car on the track and put on the oil cap I could be in the top 20.

Waterboy Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by SWDouglass:
I have not officially met Ryan, so I cannot judge his character personally.

To a kid, still maturing, I may suggust that he be forever mindfull of his own character. One's character may be stomped upon by others, but can only be truelly destroyed by his own actions. Once destroyed, it is very difficult to ever rebuild it. So again, Protect it at all costs, for after the 20 minute race concludes with the checker, you must still live amongst your peers for the rest of your life.

I assume, and hope that he truelly had no knowledge of the car's legality and that he simply lucked out by finding a well sorted out but legal car. Its difficult for any of us, as racers, to assume that we would have pulled our own car into the paddock because we were unexplanably making great power. Especially with the stakes of the teen challenge as a result. Character is easy in the long term, but not as easy in our short term, individual actions.

I have alot of respect for the kids and their parents and crew for the amount of blood sweat, tears, and especially money they have dedicated, with hopes that their kid will have the opportunity to rise higher in the racing ranks. Hopefully those same parents will work as hard to build their kid's character as they do to build their cars and their racecraft.

Even after the rulings have been made, the individuals involved still have the opportunity to correct the injustice and in doing so buid character and thus respect. Fellow racers must also be very careful immediately praising this claim, if their cars lie or have lied ANYWHERE in the grey area. Under a microscope, we may all find ourselves illegal in one form or another. The difference for most of us is that we are not competing for the opportunity that the teen challenge provides and our driving abilities hide any advantage that may have been gained. (It's not right, as racing occurs through out the pack, but it is true which is also ultimately a judgement of our own characters.)

My main concern is the car builder/owner that set up this up and coming driver with an illegal car. Parts break, things happen, but I believe this owner knows better. In my opinion, his cars have always demonstrated to be very well sorted out and maintaned on a national championship level, so the excuse that the part unknowingly became defective doesn't hold water with with me. In addition, his reputation of having cars DQed in the past doesn't lend well to his character and respect of fellow racers. Whether this reputation was known by Ryan or his crew when he rented the car is not known to me. But assuming it was not, I hold the owner personally liable for setting this young driver up to have his character and reputation stomped upon early in his career. And then not come to his support when the disqualification was announced is unforgivable...

With the love of the racing, we, as veteran drivers, all have a responcibility to the sport, to demonstrate to each other and especially the newer drivers, the importance of character. May we be forever mindful of that.

Just my $.10 (sorry Brain but it was a little longer than your $.04)

Stepping down from soapbox. (blast away) [duck] [duck] [duck] [duck]

Just my opinion out of the love of racing,
Sean

Well said Sean. I do know Ryan as he is from the DC region. It is unfortunate that he was put in this situation, and knowing him I truly believe he was unaware. As Clement posted above Ryan would not need any performance advantage to get where he is, he is a very talented and capable driver.

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Tim Jacobs
Montgomery Irrigation

Tvance13
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I don't know who knew what and at this point it really doesn't matter. However, like most of you, I keep tabs on the National events to see who is fast and what MY car they are running. At the 2008 SCCA Nationals only 2 cars were disqualified (for what I have no idea). If I were renting a car this seems like it would be a good jumping off point for determining the "character" of the person/shop I was doing business with.

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http://TylerVanceRacing.com

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quote:
Originally posted by Brian B:
quote:
Originally posted by Triple B:
Does any one have a link to the sequence of photos coming out of NASCAR turn to @ the start of Saturdays race. I heard it was a great shot of a sea of SMs and one car spinning around.

Thanks
Bob

video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGZaJyLIfWA

I'm uploading the rest of my video as I type... will post more later tonight.

Great job Nice vid.......

I was looking for the pics taking by the track side photo guy with the big white truck (on Saturday he was parked by the snack shack)
Drew Staveley said he took the pics from the turn 3 runoff area.

Sorry to hear about the #77 deal. It was fun watching him and Drew working together on Saturday.

I would also like to thank NASA for putting on a good show. That was my first time at a NASA weekend.

--------------------
"Nobody will out brake Drew........nobody"

HWJunkie
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian B:
this is my first year racing spec miata, after 10 years racing shifter karts. I have enjoyed the spec miata more than any year karting.

This last race was an amazing eye opener, i just previously assumed that everyone was on the up and up, and there was no cheating...

My eyes were opened when i followed a clearly hopped up miata (for 10 laps), I just could not keep up even in his draft and even when he made mistakes... then upon finishing the race, only to be told by a large number of racers... "oh thats XXXX he has a cheater motor..." this was very sad to me and burst my bubble that spec miata was a level playing field.

I hope that public scorn with the "known" cheaters will be enough to stop them. The cheaters seem to be the people who don't race regularly with us, the regular racers would never cheat and risk the scorn of the rest of us, just to win a freaking six dollar trophy.

guess that make $.04 of my opinion.

I agree with you Brian. Although I'm the least experienced out of all of you (this was my third race weekend with no prior racing experience of any kind) I have a fresh built (legal) motor and I got passed by a couple people like I was standing still, not to say they are probably better drivers, but they can't legally have more than 3 or 4 horespower than me and to fly by like that makes me wonder what's under that hood.

This only qualifies for my .02 cents.... [Smile]

[ 08-14-2009, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: HWJunkie ]

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Marc Simon

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pro built (legal) [Razz]

Are you positive it was horsepower? To convincingly show horsepower, you really need to have a car at the same speed as another and then dramatically pull away.

More than likely the veterans blowing by you had greatly superior exit speed.

--------------------
It really makes my week when nobody crashes into me.

HWJunkie
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
Are you positive it was horsepower? To convincingly show horsepower, you really need to have a car at the same speed as another and then dramatically pull away.

More than likely the veterans blowing by you had greatly superior exit speed.

Yes, 100% legal.

And yes, they could have just been quicker, however, there were a couple times where I know if was just as quick at that moment and they still pulled away...

Unfortunately I forgot to push record on my video so I have no video of it [Frown]

[ 08-14-2009, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: HWJunkie ]

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Marc Simon

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
... blowing by you had greatly superior exit speed.

Yep, extra exit speed is the ticket (or extra torque, hp is over rated. I'll take torques instead)

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
... I forgot to push record on my video so I have no video of it

Then it never happened Marc [Razz] [duck]

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by HWJunkie:
Yes, 100% legal.

And yes, they could have just been quicker, however, there were a couple times where I know if was just as quick at that moment and they still pulled away...

Unfortunately I forgot to push record on my video so I have no video of it [Frown]

You mean 100% "tech shed legal". But that is a bitter argument for another thread.

Also muddling the horsepower issue is that a car 0.2 seconds ahead will be much closer at low speed than at high speed. This can give the false impression that someone is motoring away during the transition from low speed to high speed.

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It really makes my week when nobody crashes into me.

Jonathan Christian Verified Driver
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Unfortunate situation for ryan. I have to say im pretty fed up with sammy continuing to bring illegal cars to the track.

John, is it still considered favoritism?

Bryan, sammy was disqualified from the scca runoffs when they found his front lower control arms were cut, extended, and re welded to gain more track width and camber. This is what i understood was found, but perhaps somebody can correct me if i am wrong.

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Christian:
John, is it still considered favoritism?

Give it a rest dude, you're reading something into my statements that are out of context.

Nevertheless, I'm tired of hearing complaints about the #77 (no matter who is driving it or which event). We now have evidence from CalSpeedway that the car was out of spec and something was done about it & NASA will be on-guard in the future. [Smash] Now, let us be done with this...

Before my term as SM Dir is over I'm trying to better equip SoCal NASA tech to deal with us (remember two seasons ago there were only 4 SM's). Be assured there will be no freaking favoritism, everyone will be scrutinized by SoCal NASA... All years, camps/builders, regardless of finishing position.

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Jonathan Christian Verified Driver
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john im just teasing you, relax. We have a long history with valafar, before you were in spec miata, so this is nothing new. There is a lot of history with him on and off the track that you have not experienced, so yes many racers feel bitter toward him. If you want more details ask me at the next nasa race and ill fill you in.

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Christian:
john im just teasing you, relax.

Sorry, I over reacted... I've just been hearing from so many people on this (all justified tho). Really, next year should be way different.

We're gonna miss you guys @ Miller, see ya in October.

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Angela Swan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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CaliPhotography was shooting that weekend and caught Bob's save...

http://caliphotography.exposuremanager.com/g/z_spinouts

[thumbsup]

--------------------
Angela Swan

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quote:
Originally posted by Angela Swan:
CaliPhotography was shooting that weekend and caught Bob's save...

http://caliphotography.exposuremanager.com/g/z_spinouts

[thumbsup]

Thanks

--------------------
"Nobody will out brake Drew........nobody"

Jonathan Christian Verified Driver
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john, has nasa posted to updated results anywhere yet?

 
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