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Author Topic: When do the RA-1's get fast?
SM Police
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Car #: 30
Year : 1991
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I am very new to SM racing. Is it accurate to say the RA-1's are fastest just before they cord? What is the optimum race weekend tire prep scenario?

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Speed Dog Racing, Inc.

Casey Z Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Do a search and you will then want to go hang yourself. It depends on the track, etc. The planets being aligned and a full moon helps...

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----------------
Z Brothers Racing / East Street Auto

Casey Z - 1.6 Kettle
MidDiv National #13

Dave Morris Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by SM Police:
I am very new to SM racing. Is it accurate to say the RA-1's are fastest just before they cord? What is the optimum race weekend tire prep scenario?

That is correct. I am offering a new service to provide tires in that condition. Send me your new shaved Toyos and I will wear them down to just before the cords and send them back to you. There is no charge for this service other than return freight. And I don't charge tax. [Smile]

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Dave Morris

Jim Boemler Verified Driver
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[Big Grin] Love it, Dave! [Big Grin]

jim

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Just a clown

B(Kuch) Kucera 45 Verified Driver
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I'll offer one better then that,I will give you free shipping,no tax and I'll even mark where you should put them on the car (L/F R/F L/R R/R).For no extra charge! [thumbsup]

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Bob
!KUCH!

"All my drinking buddies have a racing problem"

Dave Morris Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by B(Kuch) Kucera 45:
I'll offer one better then that,I will give you free shipping,no tax and I'll even mark where you should put them on the car (L/F R/F L/R R/R).For no extra charge! [thumbsup]

Whoa now, I have an exclusive on this business but I'm willing to franchise territories. I assume you'll be looking for the NEOH area. Each franchisee needs to follow the rules of the franchiser. Now I like the idea of offering no freight but I have to draw the line at marking ALL of the tires. Let's just mark three tires. The last one will have to be personal preference of the customer. [Big Grin]

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Dave Morris

B(Kuch) Kucera 45 Verified Driver
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[rolling on floor laughin] [rolling on floor laughin] [rolling on floor laughin]

That sounds great you just have to come up with a name and were getting somewhere! [Big Grin]

I really do like the idea of only marking 3 of the tires [thumbsup] see I'm easy to get along with!

Now we just have to think of a way that we can have free fuel testing programs! [scratchchin]

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Bob
!KUCH!

"All my drinking buddies have a racing problem"

SM Police
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You guys are a load of help! [laughing]

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Speed Dog Racing, Inc.

Dave Morris Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by B(Kuch) Kucera 45:


Now we just have to think of a way that we can have free fuel testing programs! [scratchchin]

We are happy to help anyway we can.

Kuch, I'm thinking that we can test their fuel at the same time we are prepping the tires. That way their tires are properly matched with the fuel! Hey, you know that mismatched fuel and tires can be a disaster!!!

If they are serious racers we can test their own car for them under actual race conditions on race weekends while prepping their tires and testing fuel. This might cost them extra though. Maybe $200 for a Saturday and Sunday test and if they are really really serious we can do a "Friday pre-prep test and prep" for another $200. It may sound like a lot but we will supply the beer.

Customers need to bring 4 fresh shaved toyos, their car, 20 gallons of fuel and $400. For that they get the Friday Prerace-Prep Test and Prep, a Saturday and Sunday Race Conditions Test and Prep and Sunday afternoon they will leave with their tires pre-worn, their fuel tested, and car checked out all properly matched together. No tax, no shipping, we cover entry and test fees.

That's a real good deal. I think we should market our service at the drivers schools to the new drivers that need prep work. Whaddya think? [scratchchin]

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Dave Morris

Dave Morris Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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duplicate

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Dave Morris

B(Kuch) Kucera 45 Verified Driver
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Once we have that all under control we can expand our service's after the first two events.

Then we can offer truck and trailer checks.You know we can make sure that they tow in a straight line and the car is located properly in or on the trailers.Of course we will have to use there gas and we will need the truck trailer car,tires and fuel for two weekends.So we can make sure we have the perfect set up on all the equipment.This will only cost a extra $300.00 on top of the $400.00 and we can offer a package deal for $600.00 that will save them a $100.00 if they do the hole package. [Wink]

Sorry SM POLICE were just having a little fun.As far as when the tires start getting fast you will know.Just make sure you rotate them and keep a good eye on them.Tire wear is a good indication on how your car is set up,and your air pressures are.You can also switch the tires on the rims so you can have good wear all the way across the tire.This will also allows you to get longer life (use) out of them.

Hope that helps!

[ 12-30-2007, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: B(Kuch) Kucera 45 ]

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Bob
!KUCH!

"All my drinking buddies have a racing problem"

d mathias Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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FYI, Toyos are NEVER fast.

volante Verified Driver
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Speed Dog,
If 10 of these guys were standing in a circle drinking a beer 7 of them will tell you that at most tracks,most of the time your shaved to 3/32 Toyo tire will be fastest about the the 2nd to 3rd heat cycle in about the 2nd to 3rd lap,your sweet spot will vary for alot of reasons.
The other 3 babbling backmarkers that have old stale beer all over the front of them you can ignore.

Have a Happy New Year!

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volante

SM Police
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Ahhhhh!!! Finally good advice! Thank you Bob and Volante. [thumbsup]

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Speed Dog Racing, Inc.

38BFAST Verified Driver
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It all depends on the track. Some tracks like more rubber on the tires than others. At my local track just before they cord is about 1 second faster than 3/32. FWIW

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Ralph Provitz
#38
2008 WHRRI SM Champion
2008 WHRRI Top 10 Overall
V2 Motorsports, Race support, Data Dude

Kim Ouye Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Newly resurfaced tracks tend to like more worn tires. But I suppose it depends on the asphalt composition too....

Also, newly resurfaced tracks "sand" tires down rather than remove chunks...

My fastest laps at Laguna Seca were on 21 heat cycled tires after it was resurfaced. I tried newly saved, 5-6 heat cycled, and the 21 heat cycled and I was fastest on the latter. This was not true before the resurfacing.

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Kim

91 BRG SMT RIP
06 MX-5 Cup

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy sh*t...what a ride!'" - Unknown

guest driver
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quote:
Originally posted by volante:

The other 3 babbling backmarkers that have old stale beer all over the front of them you can ignore.

Have a Happy New Year! [/QB]

Hey, I resemble that remark !
already started drinking for the new year [tipsy]
The truth of the matter is finding the "sweet spot" of Toyos is an elusive affair ...
now, for real men sportin Hoosiers, that "sweet spot" is always there, ready to take you for a ride [Big Grin] real easy to find for us babbling backmarkers.
Cheers and happy new year to all,
Carlos G.

Dave Morris Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by volante:
Speed Dog,
The other 3 babbling backmarkers that have old stale beer all over the front of them you can ignore.

Stale beer on the front would indicate that some was spilled and I have committed no such crime. I think I can vouch for Kuch too.

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Dave Morris

NV Racer Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Kim Ouye:
Newly resurfaced tracks tend to like more worn tires. But I suppose it depends on the asphalt composition too....

Also, newly resurfaced tracks "sand" tires down rather than remove chunks...

My fastest laps at Laguna Seca were on 21 heat cycled tires after it was resurfaced. I tried newly saved, 5-6 heat cycled, and the 21 heat cycled and I was fastest on the latter. This was not true before the resurfacing.

I totally agree with Kim. My tires were junk at Infineon and seriously contemplated getting a new set for Laguna. I am glad I did not they were fine. I bettered my best lap by 1.5 secs on tires with at least 30 cycles.

Dennis

Joe Specht
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Where would the Hoosiers be at 30 heat cycles?

Brad Verified Driver Series Champ
2007 SCCA Champion

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Hey guys,

Thought I'd throw my 2 cents in just to confuse the issue. Jason and I have spent a lot of time thinking about and working with toyo tires over the years and have really come full circle to the conclusion that: "They're round and black and hold air". We been working with Toyos since 2002.

1. My general feelings are that we/you guys, worry about these things WAY to much. They are pretty consistent from heat cycle 2 through heat cycle 13-15. By pretty consistent I mean I can't see any measurable fall off or gain in lap times that can be solely attributed to tires.

2. With the "new" compound, don't get me started on that one, Your first heat cycle will be fast for about 3 laps and then the tires will go greasy.

3. Heat cycle 2-7 I will have very consistent laptimes. Yes, the first 3 laps will be your fastest, on each session, but that is more dependent on the timing you have in your motor.

4. Every 3-4 heat cycles I check and rotate tires. I usually burn off one of the rears. I put the tire with the most tread on the most used corner.

5. Heat Cycle 7-13's use will be based on track wear and handling. If the car is handling poorly and burning off tires or the track is extra abrasive I won't get more than 8-10 heat cycles before the tires become useless.

6. I will typically run tires a total of about 10-13 heat cycles before they finally give up. By giving up I mean they loose that 1 sec everyone talks about.

7. I don't typically buy anything but 4/32nd shaves. The 2/32nd shaves just don't last long enough and I don't see any real(i.e. significant time) differences to make it worth the extra $$$.

8. We run 39.5 to 40 psi hot. We typically start 32-33 cold and then bleed down mid session.

I really hope this helps. I hate to see all the head banging regarding Toyo's. Been there done that! [banghead]

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http://www.hooverspeed.net

Richard Pressman Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Brad:
We typically start 32-33 cold and then bleed down mid session.

Do you mean during testing, or even qualifying, to fine tune your starting pressures for the race?

Jim Boemler Verified Driver
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What a refreshing view! Thanks, Brad. In starting a brand new year, we need something new to worry about. Shock hat rings, maybe? By next year, we can be debating Turtle Wax versus Zaino.

jim

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Just a clown

Brad Verified Driver Series Champ
2007 SCCA Champion

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Richard, good on ya for asking the right question. I left that hanging to see if anyone would pick up on it. We start the first morning session at that pressure and then bleed down during practice. We double check the pressures at the end of the session because they usually keep growing after the first bleed down. As the tires cool between sessions the tire pressures stablize with different "cold" really warm, but you get the point, tire pressures. An example should be useful. At Topeka the between session pressures might be LF 33, RF 32, RR 31, LR 32. The different "warm" pressures are accounted for in the amount of work/heat generated in each tire is different. Once I come up with a standard "cold/warm" pressure I use that pressure for every session up to and including the race.

Jim, Don't get me started on the shock hat rings. Jason is helping with a very specific tuning device we use to get/keep the cars handling well. If I chime in on that topic I'll be giving away a speed secret. [Wink] BTW, we almost met at the 25hr this year. I visited Dean and Laura in the motorhome at 11pm Saturday night and you wer passed out on the bed next to where I was sitting. [Big Grin]

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http://www.hooverspeed.net

Jim Boemler Verified Driver
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Sorry I mised you, Brad. I was scheduled to drive at 0415, and was trying to get some sleep beforehand. But I wasn't "passed out" -- that was the night before, after using Juan's wine for antifreeze. [Wink]

jim

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Just a clown

jigou Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Specht:
Where would the Hoosiers be at 30 heat cycles?

The same place every set of Toyos I've ever owned was after 30 heat cycles - corded and in the trash bin.

Jarrod

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http://www.plainoldgas.com

   

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