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Author Topic: FAQ Week #1 - Rear Swaybar
Tom Scheifler Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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And then there is the placebo factor. Some people get "better" even when the "remedy" is of no intrinsic value.

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Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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So what does this mean for tuning? In what situation would you go asymetrical?

thanks

Jason

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Jason Holland
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jigou Verified Driver
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I'm with Jason - when you guys figure out just how much difference it makes to put one side rear on full stiff and the other on full soft, and when that would be appropriate, let the rest of us know.

[Big Grin]

Jarrod

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Jim Daniels
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Drago, tell them, you are as good as anyone with different bar settings side to side.

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I always think of it in terms of the unsprung weight a corner has. As if I were pushing down the unloaded corner.. What effect does more or less leverage (firm to soft setting) have on the grip of the other side.

I'm just asking!

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Yeah Drago... Tell us! [Smile]

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Jason Holland
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Todd Lamb Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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Who would have thought swaybars would get to page 2...

Don't bug Drago right now, he's busy [Wink]

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Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Come on! No one answered this. Pm me if necessary. I'm still trying to figure out when you would do asymetrical sways and what the effect would be.

thanks!

Jason

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Mike C Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Jason, I have no idea about any of the math these guys are using. Here is what my simple brain says. If the soft setting is lets say 50" hole to hole and the medium is 48" and the stiff is 46" the soft/medium would be 49" and medium/stiff would be 47". The butt suspension meter tells me to tighten up the inside link relative to track direction.

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Dusty Bottoms Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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This was a fun thread, maybe I'll play around with this some more Jason and see what I find out empirically. I learned early on in my career that you can spend a lot of time doing multi-variate differential equations to do an impedance match, and you still have to tweak it.

Oh yeah! Todd, nobody does Diff Eq. when you can use transforms. [Big Grin]

Sometimes it's easier just to make an educated guess and tweaking it. [Smile]

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Todd Lamb Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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Wait a minute, who finished best at Mid Ohio, Antonio or Jason? [Big Grin] Who is teaching who? [Wink]

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Dusty Bottoms Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Todd Lamb:
Wait a minute, who finished best at Mid Ohio, Antonio or Jason? [Big Grin] Who is teaching who? [Wink]


I already got him bringing it up every time he gets a chance, I don't need you in the mix as well.

(actually I should have let him keep running 27psi and kept my mouth shut) [burst]

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Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Well, it was just 27 in the front and that at the advice of someone speedy. It didn't really work for me but I think the conditions were different.

Don't worry AG, I'll see if I can get you on as test driver. I'll be talking to Jean Todt this week. He's a nice guy, I'm sure we can work something out.

Jason

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Dwayne Hoover Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Antonio Garza:
quote:
Originally posted by Todd Lamb:
Wait a minute, who finished best at Mid Ohio, Antonio or Jason? [Big Grin] Who is teaching who? [Wink]


I already got him bringing it up every time he gets a chance,
Well duh ... blame the superior '95!?!?!? [Big Grin]

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Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I would say, "the obviously superior 95"

Prescience is precious!

Jason

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M. Yusuf Mohamed

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I'm actually taking a college-credit class in chassis setups with a guy who literally wrote a book on race engineering and I asked him this question a week ago. He said it doesn't matter which side is shorter or longer and that it does give you 1/2 adjustments. But it does not tune each side separately. The whole thing twists as a unit.

Here's his book in case anyone cares:
http://www.sae.org/news/releases/handsonracecar.htm

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Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Sphinx:
I'm actually taking a college-credit class in chassis setups with a guy who literally wrote a book on race engineering and I asked him this question a week ago. He said it doesn't matter which side is shorter or longer and that it does give you 1/2 adjustments. But it does not tune each side separately. The whole thing twists as a unit.

Here's his book in case anyone cares:
<a href="http://www.sae.org/news/releases/handsonracecar.htm" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: underline">http://www.sae.org/news/releases/handsonracecar.htm</a>

Unless you have preload...

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Sphinx Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
Unless you have preload...

So, if we have preload on one side and no preload on the other, that would have no effect on the forces acting on or generated by the swaybar. The forces at the ends of the swaybar have to sum up to zero.

That you may have engineered preload will have no effect on which holes you select on the sway bar.

I don't understand why you'd ever want preload on the endlinks. It seems to me that there are better ways to fix whatever it is that is supposed to fix.

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Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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The endlinks are usually adjustable, with the goal of eliminating preload. I was just adding a bit of precision to your statement that you can't tune one side of the car or the other by the swaybar (not that you were really trying to say that). You can, with preload, but (like you) I doubt you'd want to.

And yes, I agree, that which hole it is in doesn't matter from a preload perspective. We always use all of the holes to get '1/2 hole' adjustments. When others found out, some were shocked and unsure if it was a good idea, as though it would cause the earth to explode.

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38BFAST Verified Driver
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You can only preload one side. Meaning that one side of the bar the end link will been in compression and one side will be in tension as the car is sitting in its static state. Itís kind of like messing with cross weight to tune in your car.

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Ralph Provitz
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Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Ralph,

Doing so puts more force (weight) on one wheel and removes the same from the opposite side, all springs being equal. So, in effect you are 'preloading' both sides, just in opposite directions.

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Sphinx Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
Ralph,

Doing so puts more force (weight) on one wheel and removes the same from the opposite side, all springs being equal. So, in effect you are 'preloading' both sides, just in opposite directions.

I think Kent and Ralph nailed it. Conclusions: 1) You can't preload just one side (despite my earlier hypothetical) 2)this is a crappy way of messing with your cross-weights and 3) the holes effectively give you 1/2 adjustments and are basically side independent.

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38BFAST Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
Ralph,

Doing so puts more force (weight) on one wheel and removes the same from the opposite side, all springs being equal. So, in effect you are 'preloading' both sides, just in opposite directions.

I guess I think of preloading as adding pressure.

So as my pea brain sees it, one side is preloaded and the other side is unloaded.

I think we are on the same page.

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Ralph Provitz
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jwarren Verified Driver
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ah, thank god i'm studying Mechanical Engineering.... this is awesome.

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Dusty Bottoms Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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It's been a year already?

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Blake Hinsey Verified Driver
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I'm still not sold on any of this!
The only thing that matters is crossweight change. Rrrright? I started digging into the math and got a headache and ended up with a bunch of crumpled paper on the floor.

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