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Author Topic: Hot Fuels and Health
Little Bill Verified Driver
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Here is the issue in a nut shell as I see it.

Power helps win races. As a racer if I am told to run fuel X because it produces more power and passes fuel tech, then I may run it.

Ever wonder why the some of these fuels are up at $27 + a gallon? Itís because they have been engineered to pass the reagent test that are currently being used.

These fuels make power by releasing oxygen when they are combusted under high pressure and temp.
Some may wonder how this is possible. The reader digest version is that these fuels contain compounds that have oxygen molecules attached to them. During combustion the oxygen is released allowing for a more complete burn of the fuel. It may also allow more fuel to be introduced into the cylinder. Either will result in more power.

Now the bad news. These compounds are highly toxic and in many cases very carcinogenic. Some are not nasty until the have been combusted, some are nasty before and after combustion.

The reagent test currently being used will not detect these compounds. This is why, in karting, you are required to run the fuel provided by the track. I think we may need to go in a similar direction in the SCCA.

To me there is no reason to put a competitorís health at risk.

The only way to know what make up a complex chemical compound is to analyze the compound. One of the best ways to do this is with a mass spec. This test will kick out a detailed description of the make up of the compound in question. It's the only way to know what the chemical make up of the compound in question is.

Like it or not there are people that will run these fuels not caring about the consequences to themselves, there competitors, or other people at the track.

Through my School I have access to a mass spec. I hope to be able to use it to test fuel samples. I am also speaking with some of the deep pockets in the class to see if they would be willing to sponsor independent fuel testing.

It will be interesting to see how many of my fellow competitors will be willing to give me samples of the fuel in their tanks immediately following a race.

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Bill Hingston
SM#03
RM_Div

EMI
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double post

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Edens Motorsports Inc
Kevin Edens
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"Don't eat the track food, it'll kill ya!"

EMI
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quote:
Originally posted by Little Bill:



The reagent test currently being used will not detect these compounds. This is why, in karting, you are required to run the fuel provided by the track. I think we may need to go in a similar direction in the SCCA.


This would have to be a "pump around" system because there is no way to know what someone has already added to their tank.

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"Don't eat the track food, it'll kill ya!"

Steve Scheifler Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Naturally we are curious about fuels as well so a couple weeks ago while on the dyno we tried some new modestly priced ($10/gal) fuel that is claimed to pass tech. I'll let the person selling the stuff post the details if/when he wants, but the gains while not dramatic were enough that many people would probably run the stuff for important events. I was told that it is much less of a health concern than the blends for unrestricted classes, which isn't surprising, but I'm not sure how it compares to street gas. In the near future we will probably be testing another version, formulated specifically for passing SCCA tech.

The good news from my point of view is that while it definitely made more power, it wasn't so much that I feel compelled to run it all the time and you probably (hopefully) need to spend a lot more to get "big" gains and still pass tech.

I don't see how the rules can be changed to require a specific fuel. Even the least expensive track fuel is double or more what we pay for street gas and you can't rely on them having adequate supply at every event. Unless better tests can be developed to identify more trick fuels, I'm afraid the best we can do is make as much information public as possible so people know their options, risks, and what they are up against.

If you decide to take donations for tests, set up a PayPal account and I'll be the first to contribute.

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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What are the compounds that are risky here?

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Greg Bush Verified Driver
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Last year most of us signed a "gentleman's agreement" for our local regionals to not run anything but pump gas.

I think it allowed some of the higher octane stuff coming from some of the pumps near the track (100 octane?).

Since I buy all my race gas at Costco, I wasn't to worried about the details.

Everyone signed it but one guy, and no one really expected him to, since he is an ass [Big Grin] .

The fuel he ran was noxious on the grid, reminded me of some of the stuff the big dog Porsches run.

Other than on the grid, it only bothered me when he lapped me....

Maybe we live in shangrala, but you guys might try the same? [group hug]

Greg

EMI
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The way a pump around system works for karting all drivers have to come to the pump around with whatever fuel level they intend to run with. The fuel man drops a hose in and pumps all of the fuel out of the kart into a big drum. It all goes through a filter and the same amount gets pumped back into the kart. If you do have hot fuel, all your doing is sharing it with the rest of the field. This process is time consuming, but it leveled the playing field somewhat.

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Edens Motorsports Inc
Kevin Edens
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"Don't eat the track food, it'll kill ya!"

Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Are people concerned about getting bad fuel in the pump around system from the guy that is contributing old fuel that's been sitting around several winters?

-Juan

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www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

Little Bill Verified Driver
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Kent,

You will need to give me some time to compile a list, and I am sure that my list will not be complete.

EMI
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quote:
Originally posted by Juan Pineda:
Are people concerned about getting bad fuel in the pump around system from the guy that is contributing old fuel that's been sitting around several winters?

-Juan

Never really seen it happen. You practice on your own fuel, so I cant really see someone dumping old fuel in the kart/car just to get it in the pump around. The only thing that concerened me was making sure the tank was clean after the race so if someone did put a very hot fuel in the pump around that it wouldn't show up in a fuel sample from tank residue at another track.

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Edens Motorsports Inc
Kevin Edens
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"Don't eat the track food, it'll kill ya!"

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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You dont have to have a pump around, if everyones fuel is the same, it will have to test the same as everyone else. Otherwise it is non compliant. There are many test that you can perform.

Pat

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

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Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Little Bill:
Kent,

You will need to give me some time to compile a list, and I am sure that my list will not be complete.

No hurry at all, Bill.

In the other thread, someone made the comment (might have been you), that the MSDS won't show all ingredients. They have to declare ANY toxic substance in the fuel, although they can protect trade secrets by referring to it as "Substance A." They have to describe the characteristics of Substance A, however.

I'm all for getting rid of hot gas. I run whatever is available at the track or Exxon 93 if we fill our cans outside.

My curiosity goes beyond SpecMiata because I also work F&C (as does my fabulous wife) and I am interested to see if there really is any danger.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Little Bill Verified Driver
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Kent,

I should have qualified my statement.

After my analytical Chem class today I had a long chat with my professor, He gave me some directions to go, and is going to donate some of his time to my cause after the semester is over. Acting as a consultant/advisor, basically keeping me moving in the right direction.

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Bill Hingston
SM#03
RM_Div

Blake Thompson Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
What are the compounds that are risky here?

Tualene for one. My fiance is a paint chemist and that stuff is bad times. She says that it makes you artificially sweat from exposure to it.

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Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Bill,

I think it's great to do this, but I assure you, there are no hidden ingredients in race gas. The secret is in the proportion of this to that. With the current regulations involving MSDS data, they can't afford the liability of having hidden additives, unless those additives are GRAS.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by thefirebuilds:
quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
What are the compounds that are risky here?

Tualene for one. My fiance is a paint chemist and that stuff is bad times. She says that it makes you artificially sweat from exposure to it.
Toluene is in all gasoline. In fact, it's in every cleaner, paint and solvent in your garage. Hell, I used to wash my hands in it when I was working in the chemistry lab.

High octane gas often has a bit more toluene than low octane fuel, but high octane is not the route to power in a miata, right?

We should be looking at things like butadiene and styrene. Things that burn hard.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Monkeywrench
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What Kent said. Most of what these "hot" fuels have are already in street gasolines. It's really just the amount that is being mixed in proportion to everything else that is the culprit.


In my opinion (developed from what I know as facts) Benzene is the heart of the issue.

Benzene is NASTY stuff.

Toluene is really Methylbenzene and is less toxic than Benzene itself.

Okay I was biting my tongue as I didn't want to start throwing compounds out there as their specific names are a non-issue... A lot of these aromatic compounds are carcinogenic, and I think that's all that really should said. Gasoline is just simply unhealthy material no matter how you look at it. I think it should be said that everyone should just limit their exposure to any fuels and solvents as much as they can, and if you are running a fuel with an even higher toxicity than what the government allows for use on the street, then shame on you.

--------------------
-Bob Adams

KelleyHux
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As a flagger - these exotic blended fuels are really not good. In fact, some of them are downright noxious. There have been sessions at the RunOffs and other events, where our eyes are watering and our noses are burning.

I wish those folks who are mixing their own fuels for just a little more horsepower would consider the consequences of their actions. Some folks have reacted badly enough that we've lost them as flaggers for the rest of the day.

Kelley Huxtable
"PLAY SAFE"
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jigou Verified Driver
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This is the exact reason FF and FC have discussed (and I think agreed on it?) to run spec fuel at the Runoffs. (FV might have done so as well.)

Jarrod

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Monkeywrench
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I also believe SRF was in on it too. It's hard to do for the Production and GT guys since there are so many prep levels with different octane needs. With a class where compression is low and can't be touched(at least past factory tolerances) than a spec fuel isn't really hard to do. The problem lies in the economics of doing it (like not having the fuel provider jack the price of the fuel up) and the issue that 1 tracks fuel will be illegal at another tracks. Grand Am and I believe the ALMS too spec the fuel. I know Sunoco was providing it to Grand Am and they were to the factory GT1 Corvette teams. Like I said though, it's a complex issue as Sunoco cannot provide a tanker truck to every race track in the US where Spec Miata races at.

A better way to test the fuel is the best way. It looks as if Bill is looking into it. A lot of this is a little over my head at the moment as I'm studying aromatic compounds at the moment. Though putting this material into "real life" is sure making it easier to study.

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-Bob Adams

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What tests does SCCA currently run on SM fuel?

Water test?
Hydrometer?

Neither of these will catch everything, but it's a start...

I've had health issues in the past from hot fuel being run in karting - coughed for a week straight after one event. It's not fun and I don't see any need for it in club racing.

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cam Verified Driver
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Think we can chase many rabbit trails here, such as Dihydrogen Monoxide Research Division , real nasty stuff. In a frozen state, can kill you in many ways including lung damage. In a liquid state, only takes a few ounces to kill you. And in a gas state, can permitily scare and blind you. As Kent and I recently found out at MSR-H, the liquid state on the track can cause all kinds of havoc!

Not trying to make too turn this a joke but lets get the facts before the witch hunt, BTW, toluene at 84% by volume, fueled all the turbo Formula 1 teams in the 1980s.

I personally run the cheepest 87 octane I can find for my $600 junk yard motor.

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"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
~Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher
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Monkeywrench
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quote:
Originally posted by cam:
Think we can chase many rabbit trails here, such as Dihydrogen Monoxide Research Division , real nasty stuff. In a frozen state, can kill you in many ways including lung damage. In a liquid state, only takes a few ounces to kill you. And in a gas state, can permitily scare and blind you. As Kent
and I recently found out at MSR-H, the liquid state

[rolling on floor laughin]

As I said, I was reluctant to post. We don't know for sure what it was.. but fruity/nutty smelling and causing membrane irritation points towards aromatic hydrocarbons.. which are in all fuels.

...I'm done with this before I get in over my head. So much for keeping on the dl.

Just heed my advice about staying away from all these chemical compounds when you can. They're all for the most part bad.

When we are all racing hydogen cars we won't have to worry about any of this [thumbsup]

--------------------
-Bob Adams

Little Bill Verified Driver
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Taking a quick study break.

Can someone explain to me why there is any need to run anything other than pump gas in our cars?

Extra power is not a legit argument here.

I would love to see a ban on racing fuels for our class, IMO there is no legitimate reason to run them. Our engines are just to tame to extract any real benefits. Back to the books.

Bill Hignston
SM#03
RM-Div

--------------------
Bill Hingston
SM#03
RM_Div

dkjalen
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I found this MSDS of MS109E -an unleaded hp increasing fuel for "crate" engines- on VP Racing Fuel's web site. Please note that the boxes labeled Immediate -Acute- Health Hazard and Delayed -Chronic- Health Hazard have been checked. Be sure to read the last paragraph. Is defatting of the skin a bad thing?

At the Runoffs, FC and FF have to use fuel available at the track only. But it takes all week prior to the actual race to clear any residual fuel from other tracks out of the fuel cells so that the cars can pass inspection. Regions can put in supps stating which fuels are legal, but it is very hard to test in tech.
dave

Section 1. PRODUCT IDENTIFICATION: Unleaded Racing Fuel

Racing Fuel is a generic name used to describe a complex mixture of petroleum hydrocarbons that is used as a fuel in specific applications. This product is intended to be used as a motor fuel only.

Chemical Names of Primary Components CAS Numbers

Petroleum Distillates Mixture

Section 2. INGREDIENTS/SUMMARY OF HAZARDS
OSHA Hazardous
Ingredients CAS Numbers Non-Hazardous -NH- Percent

Benzene 71-43-2 H <70%
Toluene 108-88-3 H <10%
Dimethylbenzene *xylene* 1330-20-7 H <10%
Ethylbenzene 100-41-4 H <10%
Styrene *ethenyl benzene* 100-42-5 H <10%
1,3-Butadiene 106-99-0 H <5%
Isoprene 78-79-5 H <10%
N-Hexane 110-54-3 H <2%
Pentane/pentadiene 109-66-0 H <10%
Cyclopentadiene 542-92-7 H <10%

SARA Title III Hazard Classification:
*X* Immediate *Acute* Health Hazard
*X* Delayed *Chronic* Health Hazard
*X* Fire Hazard

WARNING STATEMENTS:

EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE LIQUID/VAPOR. EYE/SKIN IRRITANT AND MAY CAUSE DRYING/DEFATTING OF SKIN. RESPIRATORY TRACT IRRITANT. MAY CAUSE CNS EFFECTS INCLUDING DROWSINESS, DISORIENTATION, COUGHING AND NAUSEA. ASPIRATION HAZARD. IF ASPIRATED, MAY CAUSE SEVERE INJURY OR DEATH. MAY BE CARCINOGENIC OR CAUSE BIRTH DEFECTS. PERSONS WITH PRE-EXISTING EYE AND SKIN DISEASES, BROKEN SKIN/SKIN RASHES MAY BE AT INCREASED RISK AFTER CONTACT. AVOID SPLASHING INTO EYES OR RUBBING/TOUCHING EYES/FACE.

Monkeywrench
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[thumbsup]

To see how nasty this type of stuff can be..

"In humans, acute exposure to high concentrations of benzene vapours can result in irritation of the skin, eyes and respiratory system and in central nervous system depression. Chronic exposure can result in bone marrow depression and leukaemia, particularly acute myeloid leukaemia, and possibly an increased risk of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and multiple myeloma."

-NICNAS: Priority existing chemical assessment report Vol:21 (2001) 256 p

Lets not forget, it isn't just VP doing this. All your gasolines look somewhat similiar. So I'll say it again, limit your exposure. Wear gloves when working with fuel or any kind of chemical and make sure your cockpit and workspace is ventilated.

--------------------
-Bob Adams

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Sounds like the warning on Homer's last box of twinkies!


Mmmmmmmmmmmm - Cyclopentadiene....! [crackup]

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Fruity/nutty smelling aromatics are usually aldehydes, primarily benzaldehyde. Popular in California blends, I hear.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

mullet


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FYI SM had to run spec fuel out of the pumps at the 2006 runnoffs.

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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The MS109E MSDS doesn't look any different than Chevron 93 Octane, but I'll grant you that it is much more irritating.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

steveracer Verified Driver
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This is getting interesting. Wonder if the SCCA risk management lawyers are reading this?

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Albert Einstein

Cajun Miata Man Verified Driver
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That VP MSDS is a generic for 22 of the listed fuels on VP's web site. Note the ranges under each compound.

Here's a sample MSDS of pump gas:

Component Name(s)
Methyl tertiary-Butyl Ether (MTBE)..... 1634-04-4 ..... 0 - 15
Tertiary-Amyl Methyl Ether (TAME)..... 994-05-8..... 0 - 15
Ethyl tertiary Butyl Ether (ETBE)..... 637-92-3..... 0 - 15
Tertiary-Amyl Ethyl Ether (TAEE)..... 919-94-8..... 0 - 15
Diisopropyl Ether (DIPE)..... 108-20-3..... 0 - 15
Ethanol..... 64-17-5..... 0 - 10
Toluene..... 108-88-3..... <20
Xylene, all isomers..... 1330-20-7..... <18
n-Hexane..... 110-54-3..... <8
Trimethylbenzenes, all isomers..... 25551-13-7..... <5
Benzene..... 71-43-2..... <5
Cumene..... 98-82-8..... <4
Ethylbenzene..... 100-41-4..... <4
Cyclohexane..... 110-82-7..... <3
Naphthalene..... 91-20-3..... <2
Styrene..... 100-42-5..... <1

SARA Title III Hazard Classification:
Immediate *Acute* Health Hazard
Delayed *Chronic* Health Hazard
Fire Hazard

--------------------
James York


sponsored by:
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powered by:
East Street Racing, Memphis TN
set up guru:
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Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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James,

The concentration ranges do not have to be accurate on a MSDS. In fact, OSHA clearly states that you can use this to obscure trade secrets.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Cajun Miata Man Verified Driver
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Kent,

Exactly, some manufactures have their MSDS major compound listed as gasoline.

I just wanted to point out that the MSDS from VP was "generic" and pump gas contains many harmful compounds too, that's all.

--------------------
James York


sponsored by:
Stan's Auto Center, Lafayette LA
powered by:
East Street Racing, Memphis TN
set up guru:
Gilfus Racing, Austin TX

Steve Scheifler Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by steveracer:
This is getting interesting. Wonder if the SCCA risk management lawyers are reading this?

NOW you're talking! It's about time those [censored] did something useful!

Steven Burkett Verified Driver
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I am a VP Racing Fuel retailer, so there's your full disclosure...

The fuel that Steve S is referring to is VP Racing MS100E. We chose to test that particular fuel as a result of discussions with VP technicians regarding the specifics of Spec Miata engine construction and the SCCA fuel rules.

MS100E and most of VP Racing's unleaded fuels are street legal (at least in states that allow MTBE) and no less safe than any other pump gas. The big difference to my mind over "pump gas" is that the product is ethanol free and consistently blended.

MS100E produced a clear, repeatable gain of about 1 to 1.5 wheel horsepower over our control sample that consisted of "whatever random pump gas Steve had left in the tank". Not a lot, probably not worth an extra $7/gallon to most, but a clear gain.

Now as far as safety, I have absolutely NO interest in selling any fuel that will present a hazard to drivers or corner workers. But please don't trot out MSDS's from VP's websites as evidence that they are doing something "evil", at least not until you show a corresponding MSDS for you local pump gas. Gasoline is a hazardous substance, period.

The frustrating thing to me is that SCCA, aside from banning a few specific nitrogen-bearing compounds, and setting the dialectric constant to eliminate most oxygenates, hasn't really specified what they don't want in their fuels. I would much prefer a clear rule or at least some guidance as to what is considered "dangerous", so that I can easily avoid selling or using such fuels. In the meantime I will use my best judgement while continuing to sell and use fuels that fall within the letter of the rules.

The way the rule is written, anything that passes the fuel test is legal. That leaves big loopholes for custom blends, including some really nasty stuff coupled with masking agents.

But while this may be a problem "in theory", the reality is that when I (as a dealer and SCCA racer) call VP engineering to discuss fuel, they typically respond with "what's SCCA? and what's a Spec Miata", so if you think they are going out of their way to circumvent the SCCA rules you may have a bit of an ego problem. I would actually be surprised if ANYONE is really custom blending "work-around" fuel. So now I've circled myself into a corner and perhaps there is not a problem as long as things like CMP can't pass the test. [Smile]

Oh, and we will be testing more fuels, and the winners we find will be published and sold. Without guilt, I might add, and I am a tree hugging environmentalist and lover of corner workers (at least to the greatest extent that you can be one and still race gasoline powered automobiles).

Steven

Rich Verified Driver
Oh, that's where that is.

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Sign me up for 10 barrels.

--------------------
Rich Wiese

Spec Wrecker Ford

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Little Bill:
.

Can someone explain to me why there is any need to run anything other than pump gas in our cars?


Bill
You asked, so I am going to give you an honest answer and although it may seem like a jab it isn't!
I use race fuel the same reason That I do the following...
-put new tires on my car
-buy pro motors
-spend hours on set up before I leave the house
-constantly make suspension changes at the track
- run test days before every event
-look at and study data
-monitor hot tire presures
-bring a radar gun to the track
-spend hours on the dyno tuning
-spend hours watching videos
These are all small parts of the total equation for me and each plays a part in the total picture. The fuels are legal, while not a major advantage, it does provide some and while it is available to others to use legally, I will at least exlore that option.
You can start the entire $4 trophy debate, but I don't race for a trophy, I race for the competition, if we wanted the trophy, I would race in one of twenty classes out there with less than 4 competitors.
Get the fuels banned and I am on board, but until then, I feel I have to test and/or use anything that I can legally.
Jim

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Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

Mitch Reading Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Steven, thank you for the candor and shedding some light on the subject.

--------------------
http://www.mitchum.ms

Little Bill Verified Driver
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Jim,

Fair enough.

Steven, who is to say that people are not starting with your product and then blending themselves?

[ 04-18-2007, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: Little Bill ]

--------------------
Bill Hingston
SM#03
RM_Div

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

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Steven,

Good input. I agree (and James York has echoed it) that all gasoline MSDS's are 'scary' to the uneducated eye. At the same time, gasoline is probably one of the most dangerous substances most people will ever come in contact with, but familiarity breeds contempt.

I think we all have a burning curiosity about what it is that makes some race gasolines rip your eyeballs and throat out as the car goes by in paddock compared to pump gas that is barely noticeable. What is the offending compound(s)?

We regulate noise for several reasons, but one of which is to make the corner worker experience less noxious. These acrid fuel additives should be eliminated for the same reason.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Brian Towey Verified Driver
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Jim is absolutley correct about this. It's legal (probably), so do something to change that. But, you have to write a rule that can be reliably enforced.

The fuel agreement in Oregon and NW Regions last year was a gentleman's agreement and we had a very high level of compliance (as far as I know). This is easy and a good first step (if you don't have the time to work that out then you aren't going to have success with a formal rule).

There is a way to do this. Cup runs a spec fuel. Does anybody know exactly how they test? The biggest problem we may have is that some guys want to run "pump" gas and that won't pass the same test you would use on the "spec" fuel.

Also, we had fuel from 5 cars tested at one of the Oregon National's last year and while all of the "special" stuff was said to have passed, I think it was close on the conductivity part of the test (I hope I've described that correctly). I will be filing paper on that stuff if it shows up again as I want to see the test results personally rather than hear "it was close" from somebody who knows somebody...

Here is where I would start if I were going to write a spec fuel rule Fuel Testing

BT

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Brian Towey
Oregon Region #26
http://meettheroad.wordpress.com/

Dusty Bottoms Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
99 all the way!

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OK first everyone should check out GCR 9.3.25 You'll see for our class we only have to pass a DC test...no reagent test. IIRC that was because many brands of pump gas failed the reagent tests!

Then read through this site...look at the charts, FAQs, etc.

http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~hideseng/index.htm

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"Your victory is tainted! Asterisk! Asterisk!!!"--Lisa Simpson

Karl Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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If you guys don't want these high $ fuels then ask the CRB and SMAC to spec OUR gas with a DC of something less than 15.

My GUESS is that the 15 DC is there to cover pump gasses with added MTBE, ?which is only added to pump gas in the winter?

Why doesn't everyone take their pump gas to the tech shed and see what it reads on the DC scale and report back.

An effective pump gas rule (DC < X < 15) would also help us regulate parity. There is some evidence that the '99s work better on the $20+ gas than the 1600s. This may lead to overdog showings divisionally and flat showings at the Runoffs, where we all run the pump gas.

Steve Scheifler Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I trust my fellow racers, so I think a rule requiring street/pump gas would be enough, except that not all street/pump gas is the same and I'd hate to keep someone from using whatever unleaded fuel is offered at the local track if they want to.

No easy answer here, but I think any attempt to require a specific fuel would be a huge mistaken and totally contrary to the nature of this class, not to mention a waste of time because it would never get anywhere.

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quote:
Originally posted by Jim Drago:
Perhaps we should all ban hose and all run fuel? [Eek!]

Jim

Now Jim ... to be fair, if we're going to allow pimps, we've got to allow hose too.

I'm also in favor of running fuel.

--------------------
Visit the Midland City Arts Festival!

Steve Scheifler Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by MBennett:
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Drago:
Perhaps we should all ban hose and all run fuel? [Eek!]

Jim

Now Jim ... to be fair, if we're going to allow pimps, we've got to allow hose too.
[rolling on floor laughin]

quote:

I'm also in favor of running fuel.

Me too, 'cause I sure can't push my car around the track as fast as Slim.

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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What are you guys talking about anyway? I forgot my own posting policy there for a minute. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
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EAST STREET RACING

Little Bill Verified Driver
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There is some good dialog going on here. Hopefully we can come up with an answer that most everyone will be able to live with.

At the last race in pueblo, I don't believe they were set up to perform the DC test.

Bill Hingston
SM#03
RM-Div

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Bill Hingston
SM#03
RM_Div

dplore Verified Driver
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Here's one custom racing fuel producer:
http://www.ercracingfuels.com


The fumes put off by some of this fuel is enough to knock you over if you stand behind the car idling in the pits. This is nothing like the street legal 100 octane race fuels.

 
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