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Author Topic: Anybody here left foot brake?
Apex to Apex
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I am looking for some advice. I've been told that I may want to consider left foot braking in the Miata to keep the rpm's in a range where I can get some torque. I am a bit confused on the technique though.

Considering the simplest of corners. A 90 degree right hander following a long straight. What is the sequence to heel/toe, then left foot brake. (i.e. following the brake, clutch-in, blip, shift, what happens next?)

I'm making the move from a C5 Corvette Z06 to a Miata. So going off track, at least at first, should not be a concern. Going from a Miata to a Vette may be more adventuresome and may keep the safety crews busy digging me off the beach if I use the same technique as the Miata, however.

Any advice on the left foot brake sequence?

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"Driving is a serious business" - John Milner, 'American Graffiti'

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Hi A2A

I do, and I am sure many others do.

I would suggest you practice in slow places, like for a stop sign or light, and when people are not around you.

Your left foot is scientiffically proven to weigh 1000x your right foot... joke... you will notice it takes some getting used to regulating the pressures and you will squeel the tires once or twice.

Once you get that down, you could try it on track. I like to use the left foot braking in turns, like you mention, where I want to keep the momentum up. BUT NOT when I am shifting... just too much going on.

VIR South Bend, Summit Point Turn 10. Turns where you want to set your front end and turn in and get right back on the gas. If you left foot brake, you can go in full throttle, left foor brake (while right foot is still full throttle), and use the release of the brake as though you were accelerating (less brakes = moving faster). It is dicey, and it is spooky, and it is a pucker factor of 10+, but when done properly... It just feels so good! When done wrong... you crash [Wink]

Good luck!

Dave

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I think that was a great explanation Dave and about how I feel. [Big Grin]

--------------------
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I don't have the finesse with the left foot yet. My brain is programmed to jam it to the floor. [Eek!]

I've been trying left foot braking on the pace lap to warm up the tires via the brakes and be in a good torque range when the green comes out. It might help me warm up the tires but my starts still suck. With all the accordion action going on I always seem to be in the wrong gear or in the middle of shifting to the right one. It's almost like the guys in the starting tower can see my tach and have a mean streak.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

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2XApex ;
some questions ;
are you 16-21 years old ?
are you willing to tear up some synchros ?
are you ready to vacuum sand/dirt/rocks out your car for the next year or so ?

if you answered NO to any of the above three questions ...
Fuhgetahboutit
[Smile]
left foot braking is for kids (16-21) ... who grew up racing karts ... then sequentials in formula cars. They have no clue how to properly brake/downshift (toe & heel ).
not worth the hundreths you 'may' gain in lap time ... not worth the $$$, time and effort you will spend fixin stuff you will break.
Anybody that tells you they truly "left foot brake" is full of crapola ... or a bona fide superstar driver ala Drago [Razz]
work on your normal techniques, lines, hitting apexes, car set up ...
and fuhgetahbout all this fancy stuff ...
just tell those left foot aces ;
" why you brake anyway ... it'll only slow you down " ...
[Wink] [burst]

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lol.. I use it most on really high speed corners when I know I should WOT and the signal seems to stop between brain and right foot... using the left foot to cover the brake seems to complete the connection from brain to right foot somehow? [Big Grin] [burst]

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Jim Drago
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like at Homestead, T-1 ?
i keep tellin ya ... FLAT ! no lift, no breathe, no brake, left foot or otherwise [Smash]
the chipster would gap you a car length there every time [banghead]
left foot is for clutch only or the dead pedal ... right foot stays planted ... kapish ?
[Smile]

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i normally charge good money for this sage advice
[duck]
check out my former pupils ... Andrew Carbonell, Josh Hurley , etc.
only problem with those ace young guns is that they "got it" the first time, don't need me no more.
[Smile]

Apex to Apex
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If I am hearing correctly, it does not apply to corners when heel/toe shifting is involved.

I know that left foot braking applies to fast corners.

An I am 44. And I know the left foot weighs more [Smile]

True, I need to work on line first, clipping apexes, etc first. Before farting around with anything else, I need to be consistent. At least a few tenths from lap to lap. Even before I start to mod the car.

Thanks fellas!

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"Driving is a serious business" - John Milner, 'American Graffiti'

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Does anyone else tap the brake a bit with their left foot to make sure pads haven't knocked back? If my pads are running low and I hit some aggressive curbs I give them a light double tap in the next straight, kind of a "hey, everyone awake down there? time to get to work!"

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quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
I've been trying left foot braking on the pace lap to warm up the tires via the brakes and be in a good torque range when the green comes out.

I tried this on the start of my 2nd race ever. Got an awesome jump, and then when it came time to upshift, I jammed my left foot down on the pedal to declutch. I felt a huge shudder and the car slowed abruptly--I thought I had just blown the tranny until I realized that I hadn't moved my left foot over to the clutch pedal--I had kept my foot over the brake pedal and locked up the brakes! Luckily I was at the back of the pack and nothing bad happened. A classic case of getting too cute WAY too soon. Lesson learned.

Since then I've used left foot braking on select corners, but never at the start. Oddly enough I tend to get really good jumps on starts without left foot braking.

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Rob Gibson
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"The only thing dumber than your right foot is your left foot." -Randy Pobst

Randy Thieme
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quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
It's almost like the guys in the starting tower can see my tach and have a mean streak.

Keith, we forgot to tell you we put a transmitter in your car. The tower knows your RPM and gear selection. [Eek!]

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quote:
Originally posted by d mathias:
"The only thing dumber than your right foot is your left foot." -Randy Pobst

[rolling on floor laughin] [rolling on floor laughin] [rolling on floor laughin]

So true

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Ralph Provitz
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ask the jedi master how much time he shaves in the Koni ST Honda with " select left foot braking" ...
ZERO
for real, ask him ...
spec miatas ... or any low h.p. car ; left foot is for the clutch [Smash]
right foot is for throttle ... and ...
unless you wear friggen cowboy boots when you race a stock car ... toes (or ball of your foot) are for the brake pedal, not your heel.

Apex squared : tip from black magic bag ;
in a test day/track day, take off your right racing shoe ... with only nomex socks on, run a full session. Learn to 'feel' that brake pedal, pulse, modulate, etc, with your toes.
Try this for a session or two, you will greatly improve your 'thresh hold' braking / trail brake
skills ... and you will never flat spot a tire again, (not just a Toyo but a Hoosier )...
and you will learn to get your toes off that damn brake pedal quickly back onto the throttle, which is where you really make time.
[Smile]
just sayin ...

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Don't usually left-foot-brake in the dry.

Do usually left-foot-brake in the wet.

Don't know why, really. Probably due to spending winters racing on big, frozen lakes.

LFB won't preserve revs....you still enter the corner at the same speed & rpm, but you'll make quicker transition from gas to brake, and you'll keep the air charge moving in the intake tract, which the dyno wizzards say is huge.

YMMV. Experiment at your own risk. No user servicable part inside. Contact qualified personnel for service. Do not bend, spindle or mutilate. Pant first, then shoes.

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" pant first, then shoes "
no ... always [butthead] end first ... saves your front cap/radiator, front frame rails, etc etc.
[Big Grin]

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Turn 4-5 at California Speedway, left foot brake everytime. Not a Jedi... just a backmarker.

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-CJ Johnson

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Selective left foot braking, only when no shifting is needed but speeds are too high to make the corner without slowing a bit. And generally only for minor speed reductions (up to 10 mph delta). Some corners the right foot stays down, others a partial or full lift. This does add more brake wear.

Practice practice practice. And not during a race weekend. Use data acquisition so you know when you are consistently braking the same amount/effort with left and right foot for the same corner.

I started with left foot braking on the street when coming up to stop signs on slow roads (automatic car, obviously) to get the modulation needed for a smooth stop. Gradually increased speeds to learn the initial bite. Then took those skills to the track. My left foot is now as sensitive/controlled/smart(or dumb?) as my right. And I never raced karts. [flamed]

In a race adds a whole new dimension. You need to get to the point where you can do LFB subconsciously. Otherwise you miss other stuff, like the apex, or brake point... (which is why you should practice in non-race situation). Its second nature for me and I have to now really think about which corners I use LFB on. And I've even stopped hitting the wrong pedal. (accidentally hitting the brake is WAY better than accidentally hitting the clutch...)

Have fun out there!
[cheerful]

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Ben Schaut
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Scottie
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Apex to Apex, you asked a question I always wondered.

Ya see, I come from the world of front wheel drive. This is a terrible place to be, a "No-Fun" zone, if you will. I dont recommend you visit.

However, From the numerous auto-x's and track days I have done with front wheel drive, left foot braking was always a help. Now that my miata is coming to completion i have been wondering about the LFB in a miata. I would have to say I agree with most people on this. Maybe some LFB on fast sweepers where you only want to scrub a little bit of speed, or to set the nose of the car and maybe get a little rotation of the rear. just my inexperienced 2 cents.

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How do I fit this ls7 into my mia... nevermind.

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LFB turn 1 @ Mid-Ohio and Nelson for the same reason as Impaler and Nigel Stu mentioned. Interestingly, turn 11 at the Glen, my home track, still don't feel comfortable LFB. That wall is a bit too close. :-0

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Charlie Boehly

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I LFB at the start and also in "autocross" sections of the track for quick transitions where footwork can really help you transfer car weight properly and get it rotated quickly and back on the throttle ASAP.

Back when I had the Ford Explorer, I accidentally LFB'ed when I forgot I was in an automatic transmission car and not my Integra thinking I was pressing the clutch in...talk about scaring the crap out of myself, my passengers, and those behind me.

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"Your victory is tainted! Asterisk! Asterisk!!!"--Lisa Simpson

Apex to Apex
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All wonderful stuff guys. Thanks! All great stuff that I'll digest and see what applies to me.

As somone in another thread said, sometimes you mod the car and it feels horrible, yet your times decrease.

Right now I need seat time. I've had this year off volunteering with NASA to read some driving/car setup books and do W-A-Y too much thinking. I need seat time!

Right now I need to get back on the track and show some consistency, within a few tenths, from lap to lap.

Gawd, is this stuff fun or what?!!

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"Driving is a serious business" - John Milner, 'American Graffiti'

Apex to Apex
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Part of what I'm learning is that you need to remain a student. No matter how long you've been doing this.

--------------------
"Driving is a serious business" - John Milner, 'American Graffiti'

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quote:
Originally posted by Apex to Apex:
Part of what I'm learning is that you need to remain a student. No matter how long you've been doing this.

true dat ...
you just reminded me to shuddup and observe, listen and learn myself a new thing or two, no matter how many times one has been around the block.
[thumbsup]

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quote:
Originally posted by Vick:
Does anyone else tap the brake a bit with their left foot to make sure pads haven't knocked back? If my pads are running low and I hit some aggressive curbs I give them a light double tap in the next straight, kind of a "hey, everyone awake down there? time to get to work!"

I do when I have ridden the rumble strip at Summit T10. I learned my lesson earlier this year when I ended up headinf for the skid pad instead of T2 [Eek!]

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--------------------

Glenn Davis

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yup. just not when i need to shift.

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I use it through Big Bend at Lime Rock as a band-aid for understeer issues.

--------------------
-Cy
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quote:
Originally posted by G. Davis:
quote:
Originally posted by Vick:
Does anyone else tap the brake a bit with their left foot to make sure pads haven't knocked back? If my pads are running low and I hit some aggressive curbs I give them a light double tap in the next straight, kind of a "hey, everyone awake down there? time to get to work!"

I do when I have ridden the rumble strip at Summit T10. I learned my lesson earlier this year when I ended up headinf for the skid pad instead of T2 [Eek!]
Ditto....Ditto

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Like others I tried left footing early on (in fast sweepers like T1 at Mid Ohio). But I soon concluded that what I needed to learn was to enter them faster - versus worrying about keeping the fuel air ratio optimized by keeping the engine at WOT. I never went back.

Having said that, the best shoe I know (multiple track records in ST2), does so constantly)
Rick
P.S. I grew up racing go karts!

--------------------
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You could go the full distance and left foot brake with clutchless shifting, watch this video of Greg Murphy doing it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azpqTZ6WeJk

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Real men left hand brake!

--------------------
Peter Keane
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quote:
Originally posted by G. Davis:
quote:
Originally posted by Vick:
Does anyone else tap the brake a bit with their left foot to make sure pads haven't knocked back? If my pads are running low and I hit some aggressive curbs I give them a light double tap in the next straight, kind of a "hey, everyone awake down there? time to get to work!"

I do when I have ridden the rumble strip at Summit T10. I learned my lesson earlier this year when I ended up headinf for the skid pad instead of T2 [Eek!]
Glenn,

Explain to me what the t-10 rumble strips do to the pads. I don't get it.

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Joe Benton
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quote:
Originally posted by Kevin Marriner:
You could go the full distance and left foot brake with clutchless shifting, watch this video of Greg Murphy doing it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azpqTZ6WeJk

I'd like to see Greg try that in a legally prepped SM....

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's got electrical problems.

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Putting the car onto rumble strips can sometimes "knock back" the pads on that side of the car from the surface of the rotor. So when you go for the brakes in the next braking zone, you have one of those "oh shit" moments.

I've experienced it a few times this season. Check out this video to see it in action. The knockback occurs at 2:21 followed by a "moment" at 2:40 at the end of the front straight braking into Big Bend. After that you can see my left leg/foot tapping the brakes before braking zones to make sure I had a good pedal.

--------------------
-Cy
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quote:
Originally posted by CP:
Putting the car onto rumble strips can sometimes "knock back" the pads on that side of the car from the surface of the rotor. So when you go for the brakes in the next braking zone, you have one of those "oh shit" moments.

I've experienced it a few times this season. Check out this video to see it in action. The knockback occurs at 2:21 followed by a "moment" at 2:40 at the end of the front straight braking into Big Bend. After that you can see my left leg/foot tapping the brakes before braking zones to make sure I had a good pedal.

Thank you Cy.

--------------------
Joe Benton
King Rat Motorsports
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Kevin Marriner
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Holloway:
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin Marriner:
You could go the full distance and left foot brake with clutchless shifting, watch this video of Greg Murphy doing it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azpqTZ6WeJk

I'd like to see Greg try that in a legally prepped SM....
Shifting without the clutch isn't hard in a miata, it is a lot easier than my jetta infact.

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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Benton:
quote:
Originally posted by G. Davis:
quote:
Originally posted by Vick:
Does anyone else tap the brake a bit with their left foot to make sure pads haven't knocked back? If my pads are running low and I hit some aggressive curbs I give them a light double tap in the next straight, kind of a "hey, everyone awake down there? time to get to work!"

I do when I have ridden the rumble strip at Summit T10. I learned my lesson earlier this year when I ended up headinf for the skid pad instead of T2 [Eek!]
Glenn,

Explain to me what the t-10 rumble strips do to the pads. I don't get it.

here, unfortunately, is an example

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Priceless! A video is worth a thousand words!

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Paul McLester

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what did the brake pedal feel like steve?

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Joe Benton
King Rat Motorsports
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GraemeD
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This is some of the best "Footage" I have ever seen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbU4GZkt7ig

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Graeme
Golden, CO

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^^ Awesome

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Danny
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OPM Autosports | Traqmate | Rossini Racing Engines
2010 June Sprints Champ, 2010 ARRC SMX Champ
2009 SARRC Champ, 2009 SEDiv ECR Champ, 2009 FES Champ
2008 SEDiv ECR Champ

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: Central Florida
Car #: 3
Year : 1992
Posts: 1304
Status: Offline
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From the same source

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMEqOGejlrw&feature=fvw

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Paul McLester

Dusty Bottoms Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
99 all the way!

Region: Lone Star
Year : 1990
Posts: 4253
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by GraemeD:
This is some of the best "Footage" I have ever seen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbU4GZkt7ig

awesome, except for the porno music. [rolling on floor laughin]

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"Your victory is tainted! Asterisk! Asterisk!!!"--Lisa Simpson

Apex to Apex
Member

Region: NASA Mid-West
Car #: 077
Year : 1995
Posts: 180
Status: Offline
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quote:
here, unfortunately, is an example [/QB]
Now I understand why people left foot press their brake pedal a few times a few hundred feet before the first brake marker. I've seen onboard video fo that and wondered why they were doing that. I thought it was to get the pressure up. Now I know its to make sure that you have brakes, before you need them.

You guys rock!

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"Driving is a serious business" - John Milner, 'American Graffiti'

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Pack Fodder

Region: NWR / Oregon
Car #: 88
Year : 95
Posts: 2000
Status: Offline
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I've heard but can't confirm that some drivers will also do that intentionally in an attempt to fake out drivers beind them and get the following driver to brake early so that they don't collect the driver in front.

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Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

   

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