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Author Topic: Runoffs Qualifying Change
pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I don't think it will make that much of a difference in entries, but it does take some of the prestige of qualifying to compete at the runoffs.

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Blake Clements Verified Driver Series Champ
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I've seen a few people talk about the prestige of qualifying for the Runoffs. Besides SM and SRF, if you run your races you are basically a shoe in to qualify for the Runoffs in most divisions. Even in SM/SRF, its easy enough to pick a "low turnout" division to qualify easily for the Runoffs.

I honestly don't think it is going to change much, but then again, I'm a Larry.

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Qualifying for the Runoffs is not nearly the problem it was before Cendiv was divided. There were many classes in Cendiv that had cars traveling to MAM and HPT for late races to grab some easy points to move up a slot or two.

motorrock
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quote:
Originally posted by NER88:
Lance, I think your missing something.
There is no difference in quality of drivers between National and regional, it's the same guys.
Do you think after 4 regional races you are a better driver? because that's all it takes to go National.
If I'm not mistaken there was a young man running at the runoffs that was only 16 1/2.
So, in 6 month he did 2 drivers schools, 4 regionals and 4 nationals, what makes him better?

Hey Jerry, do you know who this 16.5 yo was?

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quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
I don't think it will make that much of a difference in entries, but it does take some of the prestige of qualifying to compete at the runoffs.

Prestige? You only needed 4 starts in GLD in 09 to qualify for the Runoffs last year. As a matter of fact, you didn't even qualify 10 cars in your division, Only Seven. The winner of your division raced only 4 times! Basically four starts you are in now.

How about Midwest, my home...
Only seven drivers qualified... If you ran 4 races or more,you would most likely be in.

Cendiv
A little better, they qualified 8 cars... They did have three cars outside the top ten with 4 or more races.

Rocky Mountain
They qualified 6 cars

NE
They don't list starts, lots of cars, but few come to the Runoffs

South Pac
They don't list starts, lots of cars, but few come to the Runoffs

Nor Pac

They qualified only eight drivers with none with four finishes outside the top 10

SW
One of the most competitive divisions... Well you show up and finish four races last year and you basically qualified for the Runoffs. Ten cars did qualify, but no cars outside the top ten with four races

SE
The most competitive division in SM. They qualified 10 cars and six more that had four or more races...

So even in SM, one of the strongest classes in the SCCA, in all divisions except SE, you basically just show up and finish four races and you are qualified for the Runoffs. Outside the SE, the "prestige of qualifying" is way over rated IMO. [Roll Eyes]

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My sentiments exactly !!!!!!! Now lets get it cut down from a week to 4 qual sessions in two days and race on the third day.

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quote:
Originally posted by Ramjet 8:
My sentiments exactly !!!!!!! Now lets get it cut down from a week to 4 qual sessions in two days and race on the third day.

Amen, my feelings exactly, but not many above my pay grade support that. There are also contracts with RA being a week long event etc. Maybe when we renew the Runoffs contract?
Butch Kummer put a proposal where there basically two 3 or 4 day events run back to back.
Day 1 one practice/one qualifying(or two quals)
Day 2 2 qualifying sessions
day 3 warm up /race
Then start the schedule ovcr again for next group. Each year the groups would flip flop so all get equal weekend time. My feelings is put the most popular classes on the weekend so any spectators would see the best races, but that is another story

Jim

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First half of the week=formula cars
Second half of the week=door slammers
(or some sort of split like that)
There, not only does that give you a 1 week event, now you have more track time packed into a shorter time for each group and you only have to be there for a short period of time. Hotel demand should go down a bit and make prices more reasonable.

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I think time demand is huge concern. Many have 2-3 weeks vacation or run businesses etc. Besides the several Fridays most miss to make the events during the year. Then try and tell your wife that you have no vacation time left to take for a family vacation as the Runoffs is coming:)

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Jim Drago
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Matt Reynolds
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So i can get more track time for a cheaper price and still qualify for a national championship... thanks NASA. [thumbsup]

AND Sebastian Loeb and Kyle Busch in formula one?? Alonso to ferrari? maybe i should give it a shot

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
I don't think it will make that much of a difference in entries, but it does take some of the prestige of qualifying to compete at the runoffs.

Prestige? You only needed 4 starts in GLD in 09 to qualify for the Runoffs last year. As a matter of fact, you didn't even qualify 10 cars in your division, Only Seven. The winner of your division raced only 4 times! Basically four starts you are in now.


SW
One of the most competitive divisions... Well you show up and finish four races last year and you basically qualified for the Runoffs. Ten cars did qualify, but no cars outside the top ten with four races


I found that thirteen drivers outside the top ten had 4 or more races with our points keeper, but who's counting. [Razz]

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Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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it's the TIME that is needed to compete at the runoffs is a BIG turnoff for me. I like the idea of running nationals, but do not like the 7-10 days needed for the runoffs (allowing for travel etc.)

Whether you are an employee or run your own business - this is a HUGE investment.

You are dedicating at least 5 workdays to do the runoffs - this equates to five weekend races taking Friday as leave. And I am sure that I will have more fun on 5 race weekends, and gain more in terms of racecraft and experience from 5 weekends than I will from the Runoffs.

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Blake Clements Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny Steyn:
it's the TIME that is needed to compete at the runoffs is a BIG turnoff for me. I like the idea of running nationals, but do not like the 7-10 days needed for the runoffs (allowing for travel etc.)

For some of us, its our whole Holiday allottment for the year. [Frown]

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Blake Clements

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Blake Clements Verified Driver Series Champ
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What day is SM at the Runoffs this year?

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Blake Clements

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wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Personally, I like the full week, but I'm self employed, semi-retired, and the time is not a burden for me. But, I can certainly understand that is not true for most. It probably won't happen until time for the track contract renewal, in two years, but shortening the time required to compete makes a ton a sense, to me.
wheel

Dave Gomberg
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quote:
Originally posted by Blake Clements:
What day is SM at the Runoffs this year?

The 2010 Runoffs schedule won't be known until April.

Dave

Blake Clements Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Gomberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Blake Clements:
What day is SM at the Runoffs this year?

The 2010 Runoffs schedule won't be known until April.

Dave

Isn't there a cycle or something? SM was on Saturday last year.

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There has never been any pattern. AS was on Saturday the first eight times I ran. Then it has moved a couple of times.
wheel

Dave Gomberg
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quote:
Originally posted by wheel:
There has never been any pattern. AS was on Saturday the first eight times I ran. Then it has moved a couple of times.
wheel

In the last few years, there was an attempt to rotate the races through the three days. However, there have been so many changes in format due to various BoD decisions and venues, there hasn't been enough stability to do that. With yet another set of changes for 2010, rotating days will be one factor in deciding when each class races, but there are other competing demands on the schedule.

Dave

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quote:
Originally posted by Danny Steyn:
it's the TIME that is needed to compete at the runoffs is a BIG turnoff for me. You are dedicating at least 5 workdays to do the runoffs -

What Danny said. I can't imagine investing a week to run one race. NASA (again) gets it right.
Rick
P.S. I hold both licenses and run more SCCA events than NASA.

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I know of 2 drivers who would have attended last year. They had points, they had finishes, BUT they finished outside the top 10 in cendiv. yet 2 of the top 10 did not qualify (not enough races) and not all of the qualified drivers went to the Runoffs. They even wrote letters to BoD asking for permission and where shot down.

Road America can hold 100 cars, SM had 38 ;-(
At the Formula Ford reunion they started 112 cars;->>>

I see no reason not to open the event up to anyone who wants to make the investment.

Dave

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quote:
Originally posted by PedalFaster:
Everyone on the thread seems to agree that this will result in as many or more people going to the Runoffs next year than this year. What I don't understand is why people think this will make the Runoffs less prestigious. Isn't it more impressive to beat more people than fewer?

Other than one (BFC) most that go under this change are going to be also rans like me -- so yes, for the folks that go and do not win is will be much less prestigious

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William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

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About 20 different opinions... We can always see what happens this year. If it doesnt get more cars or weakens teh event, we can always tweak it again. look at F1, they changed the points system how many times now? [Big Grin]

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
I don't think it will make that much of a difference in entries, but it does take some of the prestige of qualifying to compete at the runoffs.

SW
One of the most competitive divisions... Well you show up and finish four races last year and you basically qualified for the Runoffs. Ten cars did qualify, but no cars outside the top ten with four races

So even in SM, one of the strongest classes in the SCCA, in all divisions except SE, you basically just show up and finish four races and you are qualified for the Runoffs. Outside the SE, the "prestige of qualifying" is way over rated IMO. [Roll Eyes]

???? 2009 I SW finished 7 races with a lowly 4 points in tie for 21st place. So next year an a-hole like me can be at the big show. That is so wrong!

I agree that due the low level of participation in most classes/divisions this is no real change -- that is why I suggested that class invites per division be weighted to divisional class field size. Something like for every 3 average class field size is one invite.

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William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

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Willie,
My first Runoffs (1998), I qualified 28th, out of 40 cars. I finished 14th, due to spins, crashes, DQ's and actually passing a bunch of cars. I've been back every year, save one, since then. I wouldn't trade those races for anything. If you can afford the time and the expense, it is a total hoot. Do it.
wheel

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quote:
Originally posted by Willie the Tard:
quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
I don't think it will make that much of a difference in entries, but it does take some of the prestige of qualifying to compete at the runoffs.

SW
One of the most competitive divisions... Well you show up and finish four races last year and you basically qualified for the Runoffs. Ten cars did qualify, but no cars outside the top ten with four races

So even in SM, one of the strongest classes in the SCCA, in all divisions except SE, you basically just show up and finish four races and you are qualified for the Runoffs. Outside the SE, the "prestige of qualifying" is way over rated IMO. [Roll Eyes]

???? 2009 I SW finished 7 races with a lowly 4 points in tie for 21st place. So next year an a-hole like me can be at the big show. That is so wrong!

I agree that due the low level of participation in most classes/divisions this is no real change -- that is why I suggested that class invites per division be weighted to divisional class field size. Something like for every 3 average class field size is one invite.

The sole purpose of the rule change was to get you there! You have to come now [Big Grin]

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
The sole purpose of the rule change was to get you there! You have to come now [Big Grin]

Riiiiight [Roll Eyes]

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William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

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No, really, I heard Drago say, "We have to do something, even the most insane, to get The Tard to the Runoffs."

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Tard, don't go there. Their just trying to suck in the 1.6's. [rolling on floor laughin]

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