Spec Miata Community
Topic Closed  Topic Closed
  
search | help | calendar | games | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hello Spec Miata Community » Spec Miata Archives » Spec Miata 2001-2009 » In-Car 1.6 vs 99 ARRC Video (Page 2)

 - Email this page to someone! | Subscribe To Topic
Page 2 of 2 1  2 
 
Author Topic: In-Car 1.6 vs 99 ARRC Video
Cliffy Chains
Member

Region: Central FL
Car #: 17
Year : 1991
Posts: 275
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Cliffy Chains   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Pat Newton:
I'm sure Joey's going to be stressing about what y'all think of that 1.6 when he's piloting a shiny new Riley Camaro for TC Motorsports in Grand Am next year. [rolling on floor laughin]

I'm sure he will do very well next year, quick hands very fast driver. Still would of been nice though..the data would of been very helpful.

--------------------
BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

Region: CFR
Car #: 97
Year : 1990/99
Posts: 788
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Jamie Tucker     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Cliffy Chains:
quote:
Originally posted by Pat Newton:
I'm sure Joey's going to be stressing about what y'all think of that 1.6 when he's piloting a shiny new Riley Camaro for TC Motorsports in Grand Am next year. [rolling on floor laughin]

I'm sure he will do very well next year, quick hands very fast driver. Still would of been nice though..the data would of been very helpful.
I'll second that!! No one ever claimed that Joey can't drive. HE was never the issue and I hope all the best for him in the future.

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Tvance13
Member

Car #: 85
Year : 2001
Posts: 161
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Tvance13   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

The most fragile racing gear of all...Ego! Good luck in Grand Am next year Joey.

--------------------
http://TylerVanceRacing.com

Kyle Keenan Verified Driver
Pass right

Region: OR, NWR
Car #: 44
SMIM: AIM: KKRProducts
Posts: 344
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Kyle Keenan   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Joey has always been fast, reguardless of what he's in. Best of luck next year bro!

--------------------
Driver, #44 Spec Miata
ColdTrackDays.com

Waterboy Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: WDC
Car #: 15
Year : 1995
Posts: 314
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Waterboy     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Cliffy Chains:
Joey, have never met you yet, but nice driving, quick hands, looks like you had a blast in the 1.6L. I am not accusing you of cheating, maybe you expect a 1.6L with 109HP to pull on a 99' with 125+ in 5th gear.


Comparing 2 different dyno's. The 109 was on a dyno dynamics which I believe equates to around 122 on the dyno's you guys use.

--------------------
Tim Jacobs
Montgomery Irrigation

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

Region: CFR
Car #: 97
Year : 1990/99
Posts: 788
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Jamie Tucker     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Tvance13:
The most fragile racing gear of all...Ego! Good luck in Grand Am next year Joey.

No ego! Just experience but thanks. [Smile]

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

Region: CFR
Car #: 97
Year : 1990/99
Posts: 788
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Jamie Tucker     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Waterboy:
quote:
Originally posted by Cliffy Chains:
Joey, have never met you yet, but nice driving, quick hands, looks like you had a blast in the 1.6L. I am not accusing you of cheating, maybe you expect a 1.6L with 109HP to pull on a 99' with 125+ in 5th gear.


Comparing 2 different dyno's. The 109 was on a dyno dynamics which I believe equates to around 122 on the dyno's you guys use.
I would say your right but a 1.6 does not pull in 5th gear especially up hills even with 122. I guess that was the major complaint people had about parity at Road America and Road Atlanta but I think that discussion is dead for now. [banghead]

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Brian Cates
Member

Region: Washington, DC
Posts: 231
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Brian Cates   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

This thread would be really funny except it appears Jamie Tucker and a few others seem to think the car that Joey was driving at the ARRC was illegal and the fact that it's my car.

Jamie, I'm real happy for you that you have learned how to mutiply transmission ratios and final drive ratios. I'm not sure I ever learned such complex math in engineering school at Virginia Tech. Where did you say you got your engineering degree?

Plus I'm still kind of new to this racing thing, having started autocrossing in 1976, Solo events at Road Courses in 1982, winning my first of 8 Road Racing Championships in 1987 and my last in 2008. I just don't have all the experience and knowledge that Jamie clearly has. [Wink]

Wish I had the time to really get into this today but I have to prepare for the big winter storm.

Cliffy, are you aware that different dyno manufacturers use different methods to calculate power and not all dynos give the same results? My post clearly stated that the 109 HP number was from a Dyno Dynamics dyno. Maybe you are used to a Dyno-jet which does normally give about a 8 HP higher reading.

Now let's assume that Bret's dyno was a little off that day and let's say it was at 111 HP, which is the best that car has ever dynoed at Bret's. Now let's add in the 8 HP factor to convert to Dyno-jet numbers and that puts us at 119 HP. Now add in the ERC race fuel which should give around a 4 HP bump and that puts us at 123 HP. Now figure how cold it was that morning and with the dense air, that might put us at 125 HP. Seem reasonable, plus or minus 1 HP?

Now if there are any of you guys out there brave enough to put your money where your mouth is we might be really able to settle this matter once and for all. How about $50,000 or maybee I will put my 2 killer 1.6's and a Drago 99 on the line and you can put up your cars and some cash.

The car that Joey drove at the ARRC was transported back to Maryland by Chris Windsor directly after the ARRC, same day even. Chris still has the car at his shop in Maryland. It has not been touched with the exception of pulling off the new TOYOS which I did at the ARRC.

Jamie, why don't you and all of the other experts that question the legality of this car, and seem to have no problem stating how illegal this car is, come on up to Chris Windsor's shop in Maryland. You can use some of that fancy math to check the gear ratios in the tranny and how about we then take the car To Ed York's dyno and then to Bret Depedro's dyno. I'll even see if I can talk Mike Collins to witness the entire affair and you guys are welcome to check whatever you want on the car. Maybe I can even get Drago to fly on up to back up Collins.

Maybe I can even get Bob Thornton to show up so he can defend this killer 1.6. engine and Bret Depedro as he installed the engine and has maintained the car the past 2 seasons.

Any takers? Jamie, you seem to be the expert on all Spec Miata matters, you gonna make the trip? You ready to put all of your cars on the line or some serious money? [thumbsup]

disquek Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: New England
Car #: 92
Posts: 1993
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for disquek     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I can't stand it when people want to debate opinion when data can easily tell the whole story without ego, interpretation, or inference.

Rather than all the bravado and opinion, why not just post the DAQ files from the traqmate? Make sure that they cannot be doubted (the whole original file and not a piece, yada yada). That will eliminate any question of gearing.

From watching the video the driver seemed like the type who has amazing moments of brilliance, but who makes occasional mistakes (who doesn't?). I'm not surprised that he pulled off a super-duper lap. He really did nail that next to last lap. Very brave stuff. (nb., I'm not saying he's not a kick-a** driver, just posting my observation).

-Kyle

-Bob-
Member

Posts: 240
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for -Bob-     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Post data...why that might stop the tit-for-tat

jatterbu Verified Driver
Member

SMIM: AIM: advanwrx86
Posts: 195
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for jatterbu   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Thanks for the observation on the driving. This was actually my first time at Road Atlanta in a Miata, not to mention I had never even seen or driven this specific car. Come to think of it, I don't even think I've driven on RA1's all year except for this race either! I think on the forum here it is quite easy to call a racer or car a cheater just from watching a video, when in reality the Cates' are some of my best friends and don't have an un-friendly bone in their body, especially one to cheat! I think that this car's race history proves how fast and dominant it really is, afterall how many wins and poles does it have at Road Atlanta? I believe more than I can count! haha

--------------------
Joey
Car #69
White and Red
http://www.joeyatterbury.com

Brian Cates
Member

Region: Washington, DC
Posts: 231
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Brian Cates   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Well guys, I don't have the car, it's at Chris Windsor's shop. Not sure if we have data as Joey was driving and it was the first time he had used a Traqmate and he was more focused onn driving then learning how to turn ojut the Traqmate. Plus we were having a problem with the Chase cam turning it on. We never checked it after the race, we may in fact have data but I don't have the car. If we do I'll post it.

Honestly though, what is the data going to tell you that the video already didn't?

That's why I stated the car is open for checking it over and putting it on 2 different dynos.

I think it's pretty crappy that some people have no problem calling you a cheater but don't have the balls to follow through and back up what they are saying.

JIM DANIELS
Guest


Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted    Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by jatterbu:
Thanks for the observation on the driving. This was actually my first time at Road Atlanta in a Miata, not to mention I had never even seen or driven this specific car. Come to think of it, I don't even think I've driven on RA1's all year except for this race either! I think on the forum here it is quite easy to call a racer or car a cheater just from watching a video, when in reality the Cates' are some of my best friends and don't have an un-friendly bone in their body, especially one to cheat! I think that this car's race history proves how fast and dominant it really is, afterall how many wins and poles does it have at Road Atlanta? I believe more than I can count! haha

Grain of salt kid, get use to it, with your talent this will follow you.

Fast guys all cheat and have no honor, you just got the memo [Wink]

jatterbu Verified Driver
Member

SMIM: AIM: advanwrx86
Posts: 195
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for jatterbu   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Phew! At least I got the memo! So we are putting covers on all TPS reports now?

--------------------
Joey
Car #69
White and Red
http://www.joeyatterbury.com

mark pombo Verified Driver
2005 ARRC Winner


Region: southeast
Car #: 10
Year : 90
Posts: 142
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for mark pombo     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Good luck next year Joey and Devin. Had a lot of fun at Road Atlanta with you guys. I will get that record back! (U should have a disclaimer next to your track record to identify it was in the Pombo draft) [Wink]

--------------------
Mark Pombo
Pombo Racing/PFM Engineering

Finish Line Productions
Member

Posts: 10
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Finish Line Productions   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Here is a link to the Dyno results for Brian Cates 1.6 just prior to the ARRC.
BTW, the Traqmate was not working for the race, so there is no data available.

Cates 1.6 Dyno Run

--------------------
Chris Schutze
Finish Line Productions &
Crew Member for Brian Cates SM#21
chris@finishlineprod.net

Flow Bench Verified Driver
Member

Region: Southeast
Car #: 4
Year : 1999
Posts: 69
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Flow Bench   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Pat Newton:
I'm sure Joey's going to be stressing about what y'all think of that 1.6 when he's piloting a shiny new Riley Camaro for TC Motorsports in Grand Am next year. [rolling on floor laughin]

Having driven a "shiny" new race car in Grand AM Cup myself; Joey will still remember good close racing such as the ARRC 09. My guess is he'll also learn how the Pro boys play the game and relish the simplicity, gamesmanship and level competition found in SM. Thanks for joining the ARRC party and I for one hope we get to do it again next year. (However, I'd like my car to finish the race next time)

--------------------
----------------------------------
Craig Foster #4 Atlanta Region SM Champion 2009, 2010
Delainey Motorsport, LLC
Farnbacher - OPM - East Street Auto - Rogaine

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

Region: CFR
Car #: 97
Year : 1990/99
Posts: 788
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Jamie Tucker     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Cates:
Well guys, I don't have the car, it's at Chris Windsor's shop. Not sure if we have data as Joey was driving and it was the first time he had used a Traqmate and he was more focused onn driving then learning how to turn ojut the Traqmate. Plus we were having a problem with the Chase cam turning it on. We never checked it after the race, we may in fact have data but I don't have the car. If we do I'll post it.

Honestly though, what is the data going to tell you that the video already didn't?

That's why I stated the car is open for checking it over and putting it on 2 different dynos.

I think it's pretty crappy that some people have no problem calling you a cheater but don't have the balls to follow through and back up what they are saying.

I'll back it up no problem!!! You just have to give me a few minutes to respond. What's crappy is that you brought a car that was not legal and got away with it. If you would like me to post in car videos of multiple Miatas including the one who won the race so people can compare your shift points with everyone else's just say the word. I can even put them split screen like I did at home last night. We can even post all of our data; I'm ok with that too. Yes I know dynos read differently and your 109 HP numbers were on the dyno you use and not ours. We have a National at Sebring bring your car down and we will see how legal it is or when I come up to your neck of the woods we can do it but I don't suspect there will be a problem next time. You want to put serious money on it as you say; thats fine with me lets do it!!!! Yesterday you made a claim that Joey short shifted because he was in the engines "sweet spot" but that has been shown to slow the car down. So why again did he have to shift so early again? Its a good thing he didn't shift like every one else because he might have gone airborne or something. You can claim your car was legal all you want; that won't change the fact that many of the drivers at the ARRC, along with many others that saw the video think your full of it. Plan and simple! Stick to your story and bring in all of the people you wish to back you up. It does not change a thing! You want me to make the trip? I can do that (I fly for free) but it does no good once your car leaves the track. And by the way I never said that anybody willingly cheated! I said the car was illegal and I never singled out you, Joey, or anybody else as purposely cheating. I felt the car was illegal. How it got that way was never brought up. From your post it seems that many people have had a hand in that car over the years. The fact that the video was posted indicates that Joey thought the car was on the up and up. As a side note, having switched over to a 99 I was very happy to see a fast 1.6 because I felt that it showed they did not need any help at Road Atlanta. But it is unfair to 1.6 owners to point to your car as what could be if they just prepped their car correctly.
As I stated in my first post we will have to agree to disagree until we are at the same event. I will have my protest forms ready and I hope you have yours. Merry Christmas!!!
P.S. my degree is not from Virginia Tech

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Sean Allen Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: SFR
Car #: 54!
Year : 90'
Posts: 1907
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Sean Allen   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Flow Bench:
quote:
Originally posted by Pat Newton:
I'm sure Joey's going to be stressing about what y'all think of that 1.6 when he's piloting a shiny new Riley Camaro for TC Motorsports in Grand Am next year. [rolling on floor laughin]

Having driven a "shiny" new race car in Grand AM Cup myself; Joey will still remember good close racing such as the ARRC 09. My guess is he'll also learn how the Pro boys play the game and relish the simplicity, gamesmanship and level competition found in SM. Thanks for joining the ARRC party and I for one hope we get to do it again next year. (However, I'd like my car to finish the race next time)
I think it might be time to get rid of the "Loles" in your signature. [Wink]

jatterbu Verified Driver
Member

SMIM: AIM: advanwrx86
Posts: 195
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for jatterbu   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Jaime, thank you for posting what you believe is correct, I can understand why you feel the way you do with the 1.6, even at the ARRC I wasn't impressed with any other 1.6 other than maybe Kopp's car. If you travel out west, you will see a whole new side of the 1.6, it is basically the car to beat out there has proven VERY fast, breaking several track records this year over 99's. Like you said, we will have to agree to disagree for now! Come on out to the SM festival at Infineon in your 99 and I'm pretty sure a pack of 1.6's will put you in your place [Razz] All good fun!

--------------------
Joey
Car #69
White and Red
http://www.joeyatterbury.com

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

Region: CFR
Car #: 97
Year : 1990/99
Posts: 788
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Jamie Tucker     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by jatterbu:
Jaime, thank you for posting what you believe is correct, I can understand why you feel the way you do with the 1.6, even at the ARRC I wasn't impressed with any other 1.6 other than maybe Kopp's car. If you travel out west, you will see a whole new side of the 1.6, it is basically the car to beat out there has proven VERY fast, breaking several track records this year over 99's. Like you said, we will have to agree to disagree for now! Come on out to the SM festival at Infineon in your 99 and I'm pretty sure a pack of 1.6's will put you in your place [Razz] All good fun!

Maybe we can do that! It would be fun and thats a great place. Good luck with your new ride and your future driving endevours. [Smile] Time to move on!!!! Anybody else want to post a video. [Big Grin]

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Finish Line Productions
Member

Posts: 10
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Finish Line Productions   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Here is Devin Cates' in-car video from the ARRC driving a 99.

http://vimeo.com/7567865

--------------------
Chris Schutze
Finish Line Productions &
Crew Member for Brian Cates SM#21
chris@finishlineprod.net

Cliffy Chains
Member

Region: Central FL
Car #: 17
Year : 1991
Posts: 275
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Cliffy Chains   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I did some research and Pretty sure I found this hidden cam from a dyno pull of Devin's spare miata.

DD back up car


Devin, Breathe and realize it is done in fun, before you go get 50K dollars and bet some of your very hard earned money, that its not your car in this video.

--------------------
BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

Cliffy Chains
Member

Region: Central FL
Car #: 17
Year : 1991
Posts: 275
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Cliffy Chains   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I think this is one DD leaving the house. Pretty much a down on power day.

 -

--------------------
BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

Cliffy Chains
Member

Region: Central FL
Car #: 17
Year : 1991
Posts: 275
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Cliffy Chains   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Here's another when you took your SM to the drag strip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjZFfp4j3q8

I'll see if I can dig up some more videos tomorrow, been a long day at work, know what I mean DD.

--------------------
BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

Brian Cates
Member

Region: Washington, DC
Posts: 231
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Brian Cates   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Hey Cliffy, it's not Devin that's posting, it's his dad [Big Grin]

I think Jamie just doesn't like getting beat by a 50 year old in a 1.6 [Wink] [rolling on floor laughin]

As I mentioned, the car that Joey drove was taken to Chris Windsor's shop. It has not been touched since the ARRC! Let me guess, he already took out the nitrous or was it the LS3?

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

Region: CFR
Car #: 97
Year : 1990/99
Posts: 788
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Jamie Tucker     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Cates:
Hey Cliffy, it's not Devin that's posting, it's his dad [Big Grin]

I think Jamie just doesn't like getting beat by a 50 year old in a 1.6 [Wink] [rolling on floor laughin]

As I mentioned, the car that Joey drove was taken to Chris Windsor's shop. It has not been touched since the ARRC! Let me guess, he already took out the nitrous or was it the LS3?

In that case! Mr. Cates I do not mind being beat by a 50 year old in a 1.6; everybody has an off day on occasion (or off track in my case). [yep] . And no I do not think you had nitrous or an LS3 in the car; that would be too easy. Hell you may not even know what's in your car as far as I know. Then again [scratchchin] I am sure their are people that believe you and their are people that feel as I do. We will never agree so I will just wish you and your family a Merry Christmas and revisit the issue if it arises again in the future.
JT

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Blake Clements Verified Driver Series Champ
MegaModerator

Region: SW - Houston
Car #: 6
Year : 99, 96
Posts: 2262
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Blake Clements   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by jatterbu:
Thanks for the observation on the driving. This was actually my first time at Road Atlanta in a Miata, not to mention I had never even seen or driven this specific car. Come to think of it, I don't even think I've driven on RA1's all year except for this race either! I think on the forum here it is quite easy to call a racer or car a cheater just from watching a video, when in reality the Cates' are some of my best friends and don't have an un-friendly bone in their body, especially one to cheat! I think that this car's race history proves how fast and dominant it really is, afterall how many wins and poles does it have at Road Atlanta? I believe more than I can count! haha

You did a superb job, shake it off! No one is doubting that you can't wheel (as apparent by your SM and VW successes).

I'm with you on the new car blues! Try driving a race car once all year, no test day, and running on R888 in a BRAND NEW car for the first time. All in good fun! [Wink]

And those Cates, they are okay (especially if you're looking for a beverage). [Big Grin]

--------------------
Blake Clements

PhillipsRacePrep/SP Induction Systems/East Street Racing/MiataCage.com/Carbotech/WBR Graphics

www.blakeclements.com

Mike C Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
MegaModerator

Region: WDCR - 042
Car #: 75
Year : 93 & 95 & 99
Posts: 3727
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Mike C   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Brian, I am thinking about going to Sebring for the National. I KNOW THE CAR IS LEGAL. Let me borrow it. You know I sold mine and I need a car for the race anyway.

If they can find something I can't they can be the SM line chief in the tech shed next yer.

--------------------
Mike Collins
MEATHEAD Racing
http://www.SHEETZ.com
The MEATHEAD Racing 2010 Calendar is up!!!!
www.MEATHEADRacing.com
SMAC Member
WDCR-SCCA SM Drivers Rep.
ALL OPINIONS ON RULES OR SPECIFICATIONS ARE JUST THAT, MY OPINIONS!

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

Region: CFR
Car #: 97
Year : 1990/99
Posts: 788
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Jamie Tucker     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I don't think you will have many takers on the SM line chief thing but we would love for you to come down with or without Brains car!

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: Central Florida
Car #: 3
Year : 1992
Posts: 1304
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Gatoratty     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Jamie

Are you still bringing your dyno to Sebring?

--------------------
Paul McLester

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

Region: CFR
Car #: 97
Year : 1990/99
Posts: 788
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Jamie Tucker     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Finish Line Productions:
Here is a link to the Dyno results for Brian Cates 1.6 just prior to the ARRC.
BTW, the Traqmate was not working for the race, so there is no data available.

Cates 1.6 Dyno Run

Look!! I truly want to let this die but than again you post this dyno sheet as some kind of proof that the car was legal. Maybe you don't know but the AFRs do not change from dyno to dyno. A 13.5 at 3200 RPM and 13.0 at 6800 RPM is not normal for a 1.6. Owning my own dyno and having hundreds of pulls on a 1.6 with engines from every pro builder out there I can tell you there are 2 ways you will get that flat of an AFR (that I know of). Mods to the MAF or Mods to the ECU. After listening to the car I know were my money would be going. Believe me it's not just this car I have seen it on and it won't be the last.

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

Region: CFR
Car #: 97
Year : 1990/99
Posts: 788
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Jamie Tucker     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Gatoratty:
Jamie

Are you still bringing your dyno to Sebring?

Yes I am!!!! Lets line them up! A few cars will even get free pulls because its Christmas time so there's no excuse. Merry Christmas Paul

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: Central Florida
Car #: 3
Year : 1992
Posts: 1304
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Gatoratty     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I will see you guys at Sebring! Have a Merry Christmas and a winning New Year!

--------------------
Paul McLester

Alex Bolanos Verified Driver Series Champ
Member

Car #: 18
Year : 1994
Posts: 202
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Alex Bolanos     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Wow, a 1.6 pushing a Pombo 99 around RA... I've seen it all now. Post the data, dynos are meaning less unless the machines are consistent between cars.

Dan Cooper Verified Driver
Member

Region: San Francisco
Car #: 35
Year : 1990
Posts: 146
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Dan Cooper     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Alex,

Shhh...don't poke the fire...haha

(I'd like to see it to)

D

--------------------
Dan
--
Green Miata #35
Integriteam/Integratis

Johnny D Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Hot Member

Region: SFR
Car #: 88 SM
Year : 99
Posts: 367
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Johnny D     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I've been waiting for Jim to post his 1.6 gears in the build or in the Classifieds. [Big Grin]
But I don't have a dog in this fight (99)
And yes I know he's building a 94.
J~

tony senese Verified Driver
Phew, that was close!

Car #: 99
Year : 1994
Posts: 836
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for tony senese   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Johnny D:
I've been waiting for Jim to post his 1.6 gears in the build or in the Classifieds. [Big Grin]
But I don't have a dog in this fight (99)
And yes I know he's building a 94.
J~

LOL, but.... next year all gearing will be the same with the change of the final. Tranny's were already the same.

--------------------
Tony Senese
SM#99
2008 NASA-NE SM Champion
NASA-NE SM Director
2008 PRO-IT SM 3rd place
http://www.nosenseyet.com/coppermine

B(Kuch) Kucera 45 Verified Driver
Veteran Member

Region: NeOh
Car #: 45
Year : 1991
Posts: 858
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for B(Kuch) Kucera 45   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I'm sorry but I watched the video about 5 times and I can't believe the power that car has.Why I say this is,when he is going through the right hander passing a lapped car he had to check up.Then he also gets bumped by the lapped car and is still able to suck Pombo in by the end of the straight unreal.

If this car is legal I think there would have been a lot more 1.6's at the Runoffs!

Just saying!

--------------------
Bob
!KUCH!

"All my drinking buddies have a racing problem"

Cliffy Chains
Member

Region: Central FL
Car #: 17
Year : 1991
Posts: 275
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Cliffy Chains   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted Blind citizen
LOL, but.... next year all gearing will be the same with the change of the final. Tranny's were already the same.

and next year I will be hosting the late night show.......

--------------------
BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

Cliffy Chains
Member

Region: Central FL
Car #: 17
Year : 1991
Posts: 275
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Cliffy Chains   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by B(Kuch) Kucera 45:
I'm sorry but I watched the video about 5 times and I can't believe the power that car has.Why I say this is,when he is going through the right hander passing a lapped car he had to check up.Then he also gets bumped by the lapped car and is still able to suck Pombo in by the end of the straight unreal.

If this car is legal I think there would have been a lot more 1.6's at the Runoffs!

Just saying!

Finally, we have an SM driver that tells it how it is........... [thumbsup]

All you others........ [Sleep]

--------------------
BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

Leah Epting Verified Driver
Member

Region: Washington DC
Car #: 07
Year : 1991
Posts: 41
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Leah Epting     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Cates:
Max torque is at roughly 5400 RPM's, but at 5000 RPM's it's only 1 Ft'lb off. At 4800 RPM, it's only 2 ft. lbs. off. Bottom line is there is absolutely no reason at all to go to 2nd gear at T7 and yes you should be shifting into 5th at the exit onto the pit straight at Atlanta when track conditions are ideal, 40 degrees outside air temp, you are running race fuel and you are 2 feet off the bumper of another car. Sure if it's the middle of the summer, no race fuel and no draft, you will be shifting much further down the straight becasue the car won't have the same power, or speed. But remember, that video shows track record conditions and SM was not the only class to break records that weekend.

There are many SM drivers that way over rev these engines. It might sound like it's faster but it's pretty clear from the dyno charts where the power band is. At 6800 RPM the torque is down 17 ft' lbs and the HP is down 2-1/2. As long as you can keep the engine above 4800 RPM after you shift you are in the sweet spot for the max power.

*gets a pair of tweezers and plucks something useful out of all this prattle*

Hey, thanks for those numbers. [Big Grin] I had heard that these engines weren't really fond of revving high, as far as power. And looking at some of my own dyno sheets I could conclude that. But I had a harder time nailing down a shift point. Now if I can just get better about watching those revs and using appropriate shift points. [scratchchin]

Brian Cates
Member

Region: Washington, DC
Posts: 231
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Brian Cates   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I bet there will be a lot more 1.6's at the runoffs in 2010 [Wink]

If I remember correctly the DATA Drago posted from the 2009 Runoffs showed the 1.6 to have the theoretical fastest lap? That 1.6 must have really been cheated up since my 1.6 has to be in the draft of the fastest 99 at the 2009 Runoffs to run similar times:yep:

Oh and you guys that run Atlanta should know how much the draft helps. I have heard many times from some of the fast guys in the SE that a full draft around Atlanta is good for around 1.0 second. Good thing Cliff wasn't in the draft or we might be looking at 1:41's for the new lap record [Big Grin]

Wasn't the old lap record set by a 1.6, drafting a 1.6, and before rocket fuel!

Maybe the draft and rocket fuel only work for a 99:thumbsup:

Now if you want to see some more really good driving by some regular Spec Miata drivers you could tune into SPEED channel tonight and catch the remaining VW Jetta TDI Cup races at New Jersey and Road Atlanta. Mark Pombo, Joey Atterbury, Ryan Ellis, Derek Joes and Devin Cates will be piloting pretty equal diesel Jettas.

Since some of you guys are so good a spotting illegal cars based on what you see in a video, please tell us which one of the Jettas are cheated up. Could be more than one!

Jamie, you might want to talk to this gentleman named Erol Tucker. You see I scheduled dyno time with Erol for the ARRC and he informed me that Rossini was bringing the dyno to the track. Unfortunately, it didn't make it. It's a shame because if we really had a chance to tune that 1.6 at the ARRC with the rocket fuel, no telling how fast that car would have been:thumbsup:

Plus you could have had your chance to see first hand how much power that stump puller, Race Engineering powered 1.6 makes!

Even Mike Collins says its legal and Mike knows the car very well. It also passed tech numerous times over the past 2 years and passed at the 2009 ARRC.

Jamie, I think you and your buddies should start doing all of SCCA's tech. I'm sure Collins won't mind if you can teach him a few new tricks to look for at the 2010 Runoffs. [Big Grin] [thumbsup]

Got to get back to snow plowing!

Brian Cates
Member

Region: Washington, DC
Posts: 231
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Brian Cates   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Lea,

Just to clairify, I was mearly pointing out that the 1.6 makes most of it's power in the 4800 to 5400 RPM range and drops off pretty fast over 6000 RPM's. Ain't no VTEC!

There are many things that determine optimum shift points. My seat of the pants dyno tells me around 6500 to 6700 RPM in most cases.

If you are in a draft, downhill and have good momentum, you want to shift earlier than if you are going uphill. Even this video shows that pretty well as uphill at turn 5 Joey is right at the rev limiter in 3rd but downhill at 12 he shifts way sooner.

But then again it could be that variable transmission ratio that we have. Think of it as a VTEC tranny [rolling on floor laughin]

Lea, come on by the trailer the next time I see you at Summit Point. I hear we make a good drink [thumbsup]

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

Region: CFR
Car #: 97
Year : 1990/99
Posts: 788
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Jamie Tucker     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Cates:
I bet there will be a lot more 1.6's at the runoffs in 2010 [Wink]

If I remember correctly the DATA Drago posted from the 2009 Runoffs showed the 1.6 to have the theoretical fastest lap? That 1.6 must have really been cheated up since my 1.6 has to be in the draft of the fastest 99 at the 2009 Runoffs to run similar times:yep:

Oh and you guys that run Atlanta should know how much the draft helps. I have heard many times from some of the fast guys in the SE that a full draft around Atlanta is good for around 1.0 second. Good thing Cliff wasn't in the draft or we might be looking at 1:41's for the new lap record [Big Grin]

Wasn't the old lap record set by a 1.6, drafting a 1.6, and before rocket fuel!

Maybe the draft and rocket fuel only work for a 99:thumbsup:

Now if you want to see some more really good driving by some regular Spec Miata drivers you could tune into SPEED channel tonight and catch the remaining VW Jetta TDI Cup races at New Jersey and Road Atlanta. Mark Pombo, Joey Atterbury, Ryan Ellis, Derek Joes and Devin Cates will be piloting pretty equal diesel Jettas.

Since some of you guys are so good a spotting illegal cars based on what you see in a video, please tell us which one of the Jettas are cheated up. Could be more than one!

Jamie, you might want to talk to this gentleman named Erol Tucker. You see I scheduled dyno time with Erol for the ARRC and he informed me that Rossini was bringing the dyno to the track. Unfortunately, it didn't make it. It's a shame because if we really had a chance to tune that 1.6 at the ARRC with the rocket fuel, no telling how fast that car would have been:thumbsup:

Plus you could have had your chance to see first hand how much power that stump puller, Race Engineering powered 1.6 makes!

Even Mike Collins says its legal and Mike knows the car very well. It also passed tech numerous times over the past 2 years and passed at the 2009 ARRC.

Jamie, I think you and your buddies should start doing all of SCCA's tech. I'm sure Collins won't mind if you can teach him a few new tricks to look for at the 2010 Runoffs. [Big Grin] [thumbsup]

Got to get back to snow plowing!

I know Errol! He is my brother from a different mother. [Eek!] Many of my buddies as you say, who have also agreed with me, I have never meet before. They saw your video and felt the same way as I do. I am not sure what almost using Rossini's dyno has to do with anything but ok! I will watch the Jetta race (I'm pulling for Mark) should be a good one as the cars are very close; still not sure what that has to do with your 1.6 but ok!
Wait, I get it now!!! Since they are racing VWs they are the best drivers the SCCA has and therefor must run up front in Spec Miata [Roll Eyes] Or is it that I should be jealous because I am not? . By the way! How much are they PAYING for the privilege of driving those diesels? As far as Mike goes I am sure he is very capable but what that has to do with your car at the ARRC I have know idea. Did that car go to the Runoffs! Did he check it there? Lets just recap since you felt it necessary to keep this going.
Your car is the talk of the ARRC, a video is posted where the car sounds like no other 1.6, accelerates like no other 1.6, and shifts sooner than any other 1.6. Catches the Doc with ease even when bouncing off the rev limiter and being forced to take a slower line. Then you claim its all about short shifting which was shown to be false. Then you post dyno sheets which are missing 5 runs in the middle and shows a AFR that is not consistent with other 1.6s and in the end many people feel that something does not add up. You try to explain it away by saying that I or others have no idea what we are talking about but your crew does. I think that about sums it up!! Is there any factual data you would like to post? So far we have drivers that ran near your car, video with sound, dyno sheets; all we need now is your data but that is not available. I guess you can just go back to claiming you know better. So far it seems to be working [nope]

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Cliffy Chains
Member

Region: Central FL
Car #: 17
Year : 1991
Posts: 275
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Cliffy Chains   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

 -

--------------------
BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Mediocrity rules!

Region: SouthEast
Car #: 28
Year : 95
Posts: 3756
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Jason Holland   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Since we've safely gotten into the repeating stage of this argument, I think I can safely close it.

Agree to disagree blah blah blah...

Everyone have a nice holiday!

--------------------
Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

 
Page 2 of 2 1  2 
 

   Open Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic | Subscribe To Topic
Hop To: