Spec Miata Community   
search | help | calendar | games | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hello Spec Miata Community » Spec Miata Archives » Garage 2002-2009 » Won't start

 - Email this page to someone! | Subscribe To Topic  
Author Topic: Won't start
jfw46545 Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: Great Lakes
Car #: #19
Year : 1990
Posts: 266
Status: Offline
Icon 9 posted  Profile for jfw46545     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Help!

1990 with 130k on the motor. It was running fine, but installed new water pump, timing belt, crank bolt. Button it up and now it won't start. I have torn it apart 4 times. Confirmed that the timing mark is lined up and that the marks on the cam shaft sprokets are lined up correct. Sometimes it will act as it wants to start, but never does. I did try to change timing (yes, I marked the original spot) to no avail. Confirmed plug wires on correct. I do hear the valve in the mass air sensor banging. Is that part normal? Any and all imput would be valued.

Thanks for the help!

--------------------
SM #19
joe@tirerack.com (wholesale dept.)

"When in Rome, do as the lions. Eat people."

DaveC Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
...

Region: Milwaukee/Midwestern Council
Car #: 23
Year : 1999
Posts: 480
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for DaveC     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Make sure that the "I" and the "E" on the cm sprockets line up with the ridges in the plate behind them, while the motor is at TDC. I know someone [Roll Eyes] who swore this was the case, but it was not. The symptoms were exactly the same.

--------------------
Dave Cox

jfw46545 Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: Great Lakes
Car #: #19
Year : 1990
Posts: 266
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for jfw46545     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

The "E" and "I" have a small line on the sprocket that I have lined up with the middle of the ridge. The timing notch is right in line with the mark at the 12 o'clock position. The only logical thing I can think of is that, but everything appears correct. Could it be a little off center on the marks from the factory?

Thanks again.

--------------------
SM #19
joe@tirerack.com (wholesale dept.)

"When in Rome, do as the lions. Eat people."

Marc S Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: NCR
Car #: 65
Year : '90
Posts: 312
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Marc S     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Make sure the coil connector is securely mated...

--------------------
Marc Schatell
Winston-Salem, NC
SEDiv SM #65

DaveC Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
...

Region: Milwaukee/Midwestern Council
Car #: 23
Year : 1999
Posts: 480
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for DaveC     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I did the same thing, but when I really looked at the valve positioning I realized that the crank was actually 180 degrees from TDC and that cylinders 2 and 3 were at the top and 1 and 4 were at the bottom.

You probably have it right. I am just trying to share my experience.

Just my 2 cents

--------------------
Dave Cox

whenry
Veteran Member

Region: East Tenn
Car #: 06
Year : 1992
Posts: 1196
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for whenry     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I got the crank mark on my EGT off and even when I got it right, the car was flooded and needed new plugs and to "air" out. It finally ran and cleared out.
You can also bend stuff if you are too far off ie 2-3 marks on crank.

--------------------
Wayne Henry SM 06

jfw46545 Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: Great Lakes
Car #: #19
Year : 1990
Posts: 266
Status: Offline
Icon 14 posted  Profile for jfw46545     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Thanks to all. Will try some of these tonight. This forum has some of the greatest people in it.

Any other ideas would be appreciated.

--------------------
SM #19
joe@tirerack.com (wholesale dept.)

"When in Rome, do as the lions. Eat people."

jfw46545 Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: Great Lakes
Car #: #19
Year : 1990
Posts: 266
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for jfw46545     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

One thing that I did notice. The Hayes manual says to line up the letters (E and I) with the ridge on back camshaft. On the sprokets, the is a small line near the letters (on the sproket) that I lined up with the center of the ridge. Do I line up with the letters or the line? The pictures in the manual appears to be slightly offset.

--------------------
SM #19
joe@tirerack.com (wholesale dept.)

"When in Rome, do as the lions. Eat people."

Karl Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
2001 ARRC Winner


Region: SW
Car #: 50
Year : 1600
Posts: 1926
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Karl   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

If you can't see the I and E marks well you can use the cam gear's spokes and the notch at the top of the gear. Per Gear - If the mark is generally up and both nearly horizontal spokes appear to be the same relative to the top of the head you have it right. I wonder if you disconnected something electric so you could remove the cam cover? I don't believe the plug wires' positions are the same between 1600 and 1800, so you might double check that if you don't have the Mazda Shop manual for your year.

jfw46545 Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: Great Lakes
Car #: #19
Year : 1990
Posts: 266
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for jfw46545     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Still not starting, but closer. Installed new plugs and changed the sproket just a tad. Lined up with the letters on sproket to the ridges on the rear cam cover The car wants to start a little bit more. Still getting gas fouled on plugs after trying to start for awhile. Motor will turn over a couple of hits on its own sometimes but will not substain running.

Maybe I do have something unhooked that I don't see. Confirmed firing order and it is ok. It does act like a timing problem.

All response have been greatly appreciated and grateful for any more imput.

Thanks

--------------------
SM #19
joe@tirerack.com (wholesale dept.)

"When in Rome, do as the lions. Eat people."

David C Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: #42, DC
Year : 1990
Posts: 72
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I had the identical problem after I replaced the same parts. You mentioned the Haynes manual. If I'm not mistaken, they have the firing order listed for the 1800 and not the 1600. They have it as 4,1,2,3 and it should be 3,2,1,4 from left to right as you look at the coil from the front of the car. I had mine on wrong until I swapped out my coil and followed the stamped order on the coil pack. Just a thought.

My problem turned out to be the airflow sensor. We opened it up and some of the wire tabs had come loose (my fault!). Fixed now and runs fine. One way to tell if this may be a problem is to see if your check engine light is working. Mine wasn't until I fixed my airflow sensor.

Good luck. I know how it feels to work at something and be totally frustrated by it.

David C.

jfw46545 Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: Great Lakes
Car #: #19
Year : 1990
Posts: 266
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for jfw46545     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

You have to be kidding me. Yes, I was using the Haynes manual. I sure have figured something wrong when they were telling me to torque bolts on crank pulley to 140ft lbs. They are only 10mm blts. Read elsewhere it is something like 40 ft lbs.

THANK YOU.

Will try tomorrow night.

NWade Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: Northwest
Posts: 850
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for NWade   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Its a stupid little detail, but

4,1,2,3 and 3,2,1,4 are just the same sequence but reversed. Sounds like Hayes was just listing the order as viewed from behind the coil instead of from the front of the car, eh?

Take care,

--Noel

Mike McCarthy Verified Driver
Member

Region: sf
Car #: 40
Year : 93
Posts: 129
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Mike McCarthy     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

this is also what happens if you reverse the high and low pressure fuel lines to the fuel rail

backusm Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
Member

Region: CenDiv
Car #: 94
Year : 90
Posts: 1319
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for backusm     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

been there on the fuel lines after an engine swap. Got em wrong on my sampling port

Mike

--------------------
Mike Backus
90 SM white #94

David C Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: #42, DC
Year : 1990
Posts: 72
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

The Haynes manual actually has a diagram showing the order on the coil and the order on the motor with an arrow pointing to the front and it shows 4,1,2,3 from left to right. It's just plain wrong for us 1.6 guys.

Another thing to think about once you get the car started is the content of the oil. If you have been cranking the motor a lot, you may have gas in the oil which will thin it out quite a bit. If you get a bottom-end knock after a very short time, I'd shut it down and change it right away or change it before you actually get it going.

BTW, I read the same figure that you did for the crank pulley bolts. Rung one off, then went back and read it again. It's listed in inch-pounds instead of foot-pounds. Oops!

Take care,
David C.

Bob3 Verified Driver
Member

Region: CDR
Car #: 34
Year : 1999
Posts: 95
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Bob3     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

jfw46545,
Well, did you get it?
Bob3

--------------------
http://www.GoTommyGo.com

jfw46545 Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: Great Lakes
Car #: #19
Year : 1990
Posts: 266
Status: Offline
Icon 14 posted  Profile for jfw46545     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Wow, it is amazing what happens when you get the correct info. Timing order was the problem. Is my face red.

Good catch on the Hayes manual, David C. You called it correct. Diagram shows the wrong firing order.

Thanks to everyone for your assistance.

Joe

--------------------
SM #19
joe@tirerack.com (wholesale dept.)

"When in Rome, do as the lions. Eat people."

   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic | Subscribe To Topic
Hop To: