Spec Miata Community   
search | help | calendar | games | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hello Spec Miata Community » Spec Miata Archives » Garage 2002-2009 » Cluch Disc Selection Wt -V- Life -V- HP -V- Performance

 - Email this page to someone! | Subscribe To Topic  
Author Topic: Cluch Disc Selection Wt -V- Life -V- HP -V- Performance
Z-MAN Verified Driver
Member

Region: Mid-South
Car #: 54
Year : 1990
Posts: 711
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Z-MAN     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I'm trying to decide on a new clutch, I've done a little research and wanted to see what you guys think.

I want to select a clutch that will last a long time and not tear up the Pressure Plate and Flywheel but I don't want to give up a bunch of HP.

ACT Clutches (1.8)
3000203 Full face Sprung Clutch Organic material = 3Lbs*
4224005 4 Puck Solid Clutch Ceramic material = 2Lbs
4224205 4 Puck Sprung Clutch Ceramic Material = 4Lbs
6224005 6 Puck Solid Clutch Ceramic material = 3Lbs
6224205 6 Puck Sprung Clutch Ceramic material = 4Lbs

*MazdaSpeed is now selling the 3000203 Clutch - This disc should shift good, be strong enough for our purposes. It should have a long life and not tear up the PP or Flywheel as fast as a disc with Ceramic pucks.

But is that worth the extra pound of rotating mass over the 4 Puck Solid Disc?

Anyone have any data on how much the stock disc weighs?

Data on HP gains or losses -V- clutch weight?

Data on Pressure plate and Flywheel life when using Ceramic material clutch discs?

Thanks,


Z-Man

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

Region: SoCal
Car #: 13
Year : 1992
Posts: 847
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for John Mueller   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

My research is pushing me toward a OEM PP with one of the ACT 4-puck clutches (leaning unsprung)... My decision is almost based on 100% weight due to the fact that I only run four or five weekends a year so wear it's not much of a concern for me over the season.

Also last year I ran solely against 1.8 cars and their tq advantage was very noticeable, so for me going light is the way to go. (there is no way this has anything to do with my cornering speed [Wink] )

Regardless, I too would love to hear what others have done or are planning to do and why.

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

David de Regt Verified Driver
Member

Region: NWR
Car #: 47/479
Year : 1992
Posts: 418
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for David de Regt   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

For my 1.6, I got the ACT 4 puck sprung hub with the ACT PP. It shouldn't be too bad to drive to/from the track, even if I hit traffic, and should grip like hell. It was 325$ for this whole kit, including TOB/PB. I didn't realize the unsprung hub was so much lighter or I may have just sucked it up and gotten that. I've heard some bad things about unsprung hubs being far more likely to tear through rear ends, but that's all anecdotal.

--------------------
My Spec Miata Build Sheet - Hope people find it useful
 -

Jim Boemler Verified Driver
Veteran Member

Region: NWR, OR
Car #: 30
Year : 1992
Posts: 8523
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Jim Boemler     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

John, I'd suggest to you that the heavier-sprung pressure plate is far more beneficial than the lightweight disc. I run the same setup David describes, and I'm quite happy with it. If I didn't drive at all on the street, I might have opted for a lighter non-sprung disc, but there's no way I'd go back to a stock PP.

BTW, I drove a stock PP at the 25-hour, and we were continually having to baby it. At one point I could freely rev the engine in 4th, with no acceleration of the car -- I actually called in requesting that we do a mid-race clutch change (we limped it home without). Never again.

jim

--------------------
Just a clown

davew Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: chicago
Car #: 72 and ?
Year : 90 and 90
Posts: 1051
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for davew   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Stock discs are designed to be used with stock pressure plates.

Non stock discs are designed to work with the matching non stock PP.

Buy you clutch assembly as an assembly. They don't just work, the match!!!!!

Dave

--------------------
Advanced Autosports, The Midwests leader in Spec Miata Service, Parts and Rentals
608-313-1230
Authorised Spec Miata service center
www.advanced-autosports.com

Greg Bush Verified Driver
Thread Killer

Region: NW/OR
Car #: 04
Year : 90
Posts: 1765
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Greg Bush     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

The clutch I pulled out of Christine's car looks to be a stocker.

It ran the 25 hour before we bought it (Mazda rented it from Barry Hartzel and filled it with journalists, hence all the fresh bodywork).

It ran the 25 hour then 2 more seasons with a newish racer. No problems.

I changed it because I didn't know what was in there for sure and I couldn't imagine it lasting any longer, but it was working fine when I changed it.

Its replacement was a stock PP and 4 puck with no springs. No complaints here.

Greg

Z-MAN Verified Driver
Member

Region: Mid-South
Car #: 54
Year : 1990
Posts: 711
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Z-MAN     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

A stock clutch will probably last just as long as a ACT package for most of us. I'm really after performance data.

Running a Clutch that is a pound heavier will most likely effect the torque more then HP but... How much???


Z-Man

Jim Boemler Verified Driver
Veteran Member

Region: NWR, OR
Car #: 30
Year : 1992
Posts: 8523
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Jim Boemler     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

"Less than anybody could tell."

jim

--------------------
Just a clown

NV Racer Verified Driver
Member

Region: SFR
Car #: 70
Year : 1990
Posts: 768
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for NV Racer     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I now run the Stock PP with the 4 puck Unsprung. Starting from a dead stop is much better with the Stock PP. The ACT PP and 4 puck was teeth rattling at times. I have noticed no slippage with this combo.

Dennis

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

Region: SoCal
Car #: 13
Year : 1992
Posts: 847
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for John Mueller   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Jim Boemler:
... If I didn't drive at all on the street, I might have opted for a lighter non-sprung disc, but there's no way I'd go back to a stock PP.

jim

[thumbsup] Thanks Jim [thumbsup]

Z-MAN Verified Driver
Member

Region: Mid-South
Car #: 54
Year : 1990
Posts: 711
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Z-MAN     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

With all of the Dyno time used in the class I can't belive that no one has any data on how clutch weight effects performance?

I know of someone that has run dyno tests on fan belts to see which one makes the best power....

Me thinks you just don't want to share...

I guess it was a little to much to ask for...


Z-Man

TimBuck Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
I'll believe it when I believe it.

Region: CalClub
Car #: 44
Year : 1992
Posts: 1364
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for TimBuck   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

1 pound???

Z-man, JB hit it on the head with his "less than anybody could tell" comment. At least less than any chassis dyno could reliably tell.

No black helicopters involved whatsoever.

--------------------
Tim Buck

MAZDASPEED Motorsports Development
Mazda North American Operations
phone (800) 435-2508
fax (949) 222-2650

zoom-zoom!

Z-MAN Verified Driver
Member

Region: Mid-South
Car #: 54
Year : 1990
Posts: 711
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Z-MAN     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

Come on Tim you know 1 pound of rotating mass makes a difference.

Otherwise why would everyone want to run the lighter 1.8 flywheel isn't it only 1 pound lighter?


Z-Man

Michael B. Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: Central
Car #: 1
Year : 1994
Posts: 61
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Michael B.     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by TimBuck:
No black helicopters involved whatsoever.

That is just plain funny.

--------------------
MB.

jigou Verified Driver
Veteran Member

Region: Des Moines Valley
Car #: 59
Year : 1991
Posts: 1910
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for jigou     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by Z-MAN:
Come on Tim you know 1 pound of rotating mass makes a difference.

Otherwise why would everyone want to run the lighter 1.8 flywheel isn't it only 1 pound lighter?


Z-Man

So put in the lightest legal stuff you can find and call it a day.

:shrug:

Jarrod

--------------------
http://www.plainoldgas.com

Blake Thompson Verified Driver
Now The Fastest "Blake" in Spec Miata

Region: Central
Car #: 97
Year : 1991
Posts: 602
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Blake Thompson   Author's Homepage     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

quote:
Originally posted by davew:
Stock discs are designed to be used with stock pressure plates.

Non stock discs are designed to work with the matching non stock PP.

Buy you clutch assembly as an assembly. They don't just work, the match!!!!!

Dave

Great suggestion dave, especially when your kit includes the alignment tool and your kit is $20 cheaper than direct from mazda =-o

Thanks.

--------------------
http://btdtracing.com - YOUR Miata Parts Pimp

Colin MacLean Verified Driver
Fly Fifer

Region: Atlanta
Posts: 845
Status: Offline
Icon 1 posted  Profile for Colin MacLean     Edit/Delete Post  Report this post to a Moderator

I ran an ACT pressure plate with their street disk for 99.9% of my races. No problems. One race weekend I happened to get a super deal on a used aluminum pressure plate with 4 puck unsprung disk. (legal for ITA) This was one of those $750 clutch combos when new. I ran it for 2 sessions but something was out of spec and it tore up my throwout bearing so I had to swap it out at the track.

This meant I had back to back runs on the same weekend on the two different clutches. Let me tell you it made a BIG difference. It felt to me very similar to when you run with a full load of fuel and when you run near empty. No DA installed for raw numbers but my lap times were about 0.3 second faster with the aluminum setup. Most noticeable was how much faster the shifts were. There lots of time right there.

--------------------
Colin MacLean
Flyin' MacLean Motorsports

   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic | Subscribe To Topic
Hop To: