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Author Topic: From the classifieds
Greg Bush Verified Driver
Thread Killer

Region: NW/OR
Car #: 04
Year : 90
Posts: 1765
Status: Offline
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This is where the slippery slope leads.

We set foot on it when we went National and invited the serious racers to play.

I think I'll put together an illegal motor that makes Pro power for way less money and run that.

It beats getting my ass handed to me by bad drivers with Pro power, while I stand on the moral high ground....

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

Region: Houston
Car #: 91
Year : 1991
Posts: 2171
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Cajun Miata Man:
For all you righteous "pots" out there calling the kettles black, how many of you in 2010 knowingly ran illegal 1.6L heads at sometime?

You don't need to answer, but we know who you are.

I am not proposing modded ECUs as legal, only suggesting that maybe your self-serving crusade is a bit hypocritical and a look in the mirror may be warranted.

Ding! That's me!

Actually, I haven't looked at the head in my car, but I know the chump who built it is a well-known cheater. Despite his promises to build a legal motor that made power because of expert dyno tuning, I'm pretty sure the head is not legal.

Hello pot, I'm kettle.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

JMorris
Member

Posts: 69
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
JMorris, I think what the Tard is trying to say is that we saw these arguments for open fuel pressure earlier:
1. There is normal variation in the production run
2. Hard to tech (not really)
3. Easy to manipulate the FP regulator to 'optimize' and the modification is hard to detect
4. People are doing it anyway, making it open just lets the rest do it more cheaply because they don't have to hide it
5. Provides a low cost performance boost

If that is true for the FP regulator, it is much more so for allowing people to vary the clock on the ECU to nudge the redline. In fact, it's MUCH cheaper than fooling with the FPR.

I'm against it for the same reasons I am against the FP and timing mods, but I see the hypocrisy in the arguments.

Some of what you posted makes sense. Some doesn't.

The argument for FP seems to be that swapping regulators and finding one low in the spec gives you a better tune up. If they are within the spec, I don't even see that as gray, how can anyone make that argument?

I don't understand how the same case can be made about computers? None left Mazda that way, you had to cheat to get there? Not gray, not preparation, just blatant cheating.

I really don't follow the logic here.

J-

Willie the Tard Verified Driver
Member

Region: NASA Texas
Car #: 8
Year : 92
Posts: 697
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by JMorris:
quote:
Originally posted by Willie the Tard:
Or get the right people to use "tech shed legal" parts for a year then they become fully legal in the off season [Smile]

What does this mean?


So you guys are all fine running stuff that is illegal like computers?

I am for sure not the "right people" [Smile]

I was talking about heads last year and FP and timing this year.

--------------------
William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

Willie the Tard Verified Driver
Member

Region: NASA Texas
Car #: 8
Year : 92
Posts: 697
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Cajun Miata Man:
For all you righteous "pots" out there calling the kettles black, how many of you in 2010 knowingly ran illegal 1.6L heads at sometime?

You don't need to answer, but we know who you are.

I am not proposing modded ECUs as legal, only suggesting that maybe your self-serving crusade is a bit hypocritical and a look in the mirror may be warranted.

knowingly no, but did I take my pro motor apart and check it no. PM from the runoffs and I will tell you what most likely illegal on your car [Smile]

--------------------
William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

Region: Houston
Car #: 91
Year : 1991
Posts: 2171
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by JMorris:
quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
JMorris, I think what the Tard is trying to say is that we saw these arguments for open fuel pressure earlier:
1. There is normal variation in the production run
2. Hard to tech (not really)
3. Easy to manipulate the FP regulator to 'optimize' and the modification is hard to detect
4. People are doing it anyway, making it open just lets the rest do it more cheaply because they don't have to hide it
5. Provides a low cost performance boost

If that is true for the FP regulator, it is much more so for allowing people to vary the clock on the ECU to nudge the redline. In fact, it's MUCH cheaper than fooling with the FPR.

I'm against it for the same reasons I am against the FP and timing mods, but I see the hypocrisy in the arguments.

Some of what you posted makes sense. Some doesn't.

The argument for FP seems to be that swapping regulators and finding one low in the spec gives you a better tune up. If they are within the spec, I don't even see that as gray, how can anyone make that argument?

I don't understand how the same case can be made about computers? None left Mazda that way, you had to cheat to get there? Not gray, not preparation, just blatant cheating.

I really don't follow the logic here.

J-

J, despite protestations to the contrary, you CAN find stock, unmonkeyed NA1.6 ECUs with an extra 200 RPM. They are controlled by a very crude crystal oscillator and it doesn't take much variation in the voltage regulator/resistor/capacitor/crystal circuit to give you that increase. Age takes its toll on crystal oscillators. This is no different than cylinder heads or fuel pressure regulators, you can find the 'golden' one if you are lucky and patient or you can have one 'squeezed'. Or we can allow people to get the 'benefit' for 50 cents.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Cajun Miata Man Verified Driver
Overdog Driver

Region: Houston; SWDIV
Car #: 15
Year : 99
Posts: 680
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Willie the Tard:
quote:
Originally posted by Cajun Miata Man:
For all you righteous "pots" out there calling the kettles black, how many of you in 2010 knowingly ran illegal 1.6L heads at sometime?

You don't need to answer, but we know who you are.

I am not proposing modded ECUs as legal, only suggesting that maybe your self-serving crusade is a bit hypocritical and a look in the mirror may be warranted.

PM from the runoffs and I will tell you what most likely illegal on your car [Smile]
You lost me........ But my car was found compliant on all items. The only excluded item was my head was not pulled like the podium finishers.

--------------------
James York


sponsored by:
Stan's Auto Center, Lafayette LA
powered by:
East Street Racing, Memphis TN
set up guru:
Gilfus Racing, Austin TX

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Pack Fodder

Region: NWR / Oregon
Car #: 88
Year : 95
Posts: 2000
Status: Offline
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I canít even keep track of all the gray area tweaks anymore. One week itís remapped ECUs. The next is squished FP regulators. This week itís some magic new age hippie crystals. Next week probably flux capacitors or rocket assist brake pads.

Iím throwing in the towel. I guess thereís nothing for us poor unsophisticated yokels to do but pour in some pump gas, snug up the harness, learn to love the right and hate the middle pedals, and use the extra money for beer.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

d mathias Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: OVR
Car #: 88
Year : 1991
Posts: 2401
Status: Offline
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Flux capacitors are sooooooo 2008. Where have you been?

Give the beer to your competitors Fri. & Sat. nights so they're hung-over and can't race for shiz.

joeythepants
Junior Member

Posts: 9
Status: Offline
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I don't think it will make it through tech but give it a shot

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/EMB0/121G.oap?keyword=121g

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/EMB0/121GMF.oap?keyword=121gmf

B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
Gold Member

Region: Oregon
Car #: 68
Year : 91
Posts: 2359
Status: Offline
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Keith, most if not all of this is not an issue where you and I race, so I'll be happy just to squeeze a lemon into my Hef and relax in my lawn chair all weekend. My biggest concern at this point is a scheduled oil change between races.

Cheers!

-b

--------------------
Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E3 and Under 2 liter Overall Champion
Oregon Region SM Class Advisor

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
Member

Posts: 443
Status: Offline
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mmmm Hef...

--------------------
It really makes my week when nobody crashes into me.

Brandon F. Verified Driver
Member

Region: NNJR
Car #: 48
Year : 1996
Posts: 191
Status: Offline
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Alright, I'm not from the Pacific northwest so what's a "Hef"?

Ron Alan Made Donation to Website
Member

Region: SF
Year : 95
Posts: 235
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by B Wilson:
Keith, most if not all of this is not an issue where you and I race, so I'll be happy just to squeeze a lemon into my Hef and relax in my lawn chair all weekend. My biggest concern at this point is a scheduled oil change between races.

Cheers!

-b

+1 [yep]

--------------------
-RA


"Happy birthday, I didn't get you a present...Oh, mom got you one? Well, that's from me then too, unless it's shitty."
9:52 AM Sep 14th, 2009 via web
http://twitter.com/shitmydadsays

Mark de Regt Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Veteran Member

Region: NWR/Oregon; ICSCC
Car #: 70
Year : 1991
Posts: 1111
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Brandon F.:
Alright, I'm not from the Pacific northwest so what's a "Hef"?

Hefeweizen beer

Brandon F. Verified Driver
Member

Region: NNJR
Car #: 48
Year : 1996
Posts: 191
Status: Offline
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Oh, DUH!
Thanks Mark...

Signed,
Likes a Paulaner himself
But without the fruit [Wink]

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

Region: Houston
Car #: 91
Year : 1991
Posts: 2171
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Brandon F.:
Alright, I'm not from the Pacific northwest so what's a "Hef"?

I thought it was a chunky woman!

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Brandon F. Verified Driver
Member

Region: NNJR
Car #: 48
Year : 1996
Posts: 191
Status: Offline
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No, those would be "Bevos" for you Texas folks...

[duck]

B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
Gold Member

Region: Oregon
Car #: 68
Year : 91
Posts: 2359
Status: Offline
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Er uh, nevermind [Smile]

-b

--------------------
Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E3 and Under 2 liter Overall Champion
Oregon Region SM Class Advisor

MPR22
Member

Region: Southwest
Car #: 22
Year : 92'
Posts: 296
Status: Offline
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Any of you North wester's try Shiner Bock. They were serving it at Giant's games when i visited last month. Good Texas beer.

--------------------
Michael Ross

Brandon F. Verified Driver
Member

Region: NNJR
Car #: 48
Year : 1996
Posts: 191
Status: Offline
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Don't tease us former Texans like that!

Boo!! HISS!!!

The closest we can get it is south Pennsylvania/northern Virginia - and that's a haul from norther Jersey!

MPR22
Member

Region: Southwest
Car #: 22
Year : 92'
Posts: 296
Status: Offline
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San Fran Giants game, but there is hope if mabey they will start shipping to the north east as well.

--------------------
Michael Ross

B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
Gold Member

Region: Oregon
Car #: 68
Year : 91
Posts: 2359
Status: Offline
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Whatever you do, don't spill beer on your ECU, or the rev limiter might drop to zero.

-b

--------------------
Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E3 and Under 2 liter Overall Champion
Oregon Region SM Class Advisor

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

Region: Houston
Car #: 91
Year : 1991
Posts: 2171
Status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by B Wilson:
Whatever you do, don't spill beer on your ECU, or the rev limiter might drop to zero.

-b

A little dab near the crystal is good for 25 RPM or so [Wink]

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

 
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