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Author Topic: SSM Compliance fee
Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Mediocrity rules!

Region: SouthEast
Car #: 28
Year : 95
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Interested in hearing what you think about this? Would anyone be interested in a short-term fee per race in order to build up tools and training for NASA SSM (or SCCA for that matter) much like the SM compliance fee?

Lemme know

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Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

DerekFSU Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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If you're going to maintain competitiveness with SCCA SM, then you must be able to operate on a level playing field with regard to tech. Where the $ comes from is up to you all, but you have to do it. Personally, I'm more of a user-fee guy than a tax guy so I voted yes.

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Mediocrity rules!

Region: SouthEast
Car #: 28
Year : 95
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Anyone care to detail their feelings here? Why the reluctance? Just fee fatigue?

Leaving it up to the organizers in most cases has been shown NOT to work. With a compliance fee we can take matters into our own hands, have tools on hand to check cars, bring dynos to the track etc. What about this isn't good?

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Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Region: Central Florida
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Year : 1992
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NASA's motto is "racers make the decisions" so the people who race in SSM in NASA need to step up and talk this out.

My personal opinion is that you have to have strict compliance and good tech or your class won't survive. The real issue is how you accomplish that objective.

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Paul McLester

Connie 62 Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Year : 91
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quote:
Originally posted by Gatoratty:
NASA's motto is "racers make the decisions" so the people who race in SSM in NASA need to step up and talk this out.

My personal opinion is that you have to have strict compliance and good tech or your class won't survive. The real issue is how you accomplish that objective.

Bingo! But add to that a ruleset that absolutely limits pricey modifications.

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Jim Thill
#11 SSM
#3 ITA
Thrillz Racing

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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Not a SSM racer, but there are gripes from SCCA regarding where the money ended up.

Jason, please be more specific about where and how the money will be applied if you want to propose hitting people up for it.

I realize you want to just float the idea, but if I was SSM, I'd want to hear more first.

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It really makes my week when nobody crashes into me.

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

Region: SoCal
Car #: 13
Year : 1992
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In SoCal I'm the only SSM so I'm not for it until we average have 5+ cars an event over a season.

My issue is to convert cars... I've talked with most SoCal 1.6's attempting educate them that SSM is the way to go but I only get push back. They want to "run with the pack" and I WAS too slow to show a full trim SSM could, in their words "keep up" with a SM.

However, after a week in Utah trying to keep up with Jason I finally learned how to drive these silly chick cars (well kinda). While attending BWRP last month (I only had one session before I broke my arm/wrist) in the SM/SSM warm-up session I posted a 2:08.705 which was good for 12th out of 22 cars. So there [Razz] !

Sorry for the hijack but there is no need in SoCal for a compliance fee yet.

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Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Mediocrity rules!

Region: SouthEast
Car #: 28
Year : 95
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quote:
Originally posted by Connie 62:
quote:
Originally posted by Gatoratty:
NASA's motto is "racers make the decisions" so the people who race in SSM in NASA need to step up and talk this out.

My personal opinion is that you have to have strict compliance and good tech or your class won't survive. The real issue is how you accomplish that objective.

Bingo! But add to that a ruleset that absolutely limits pricey modifications.
I agree completely. Like $3000 motors. Completely unnecessary! [Smile]

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Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

Sean Yepez Verified Driver
Team Keeblerspeed

Region: SF
Car #: 94
Year : 94
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What you guys really need is a claimer rule.

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2008 San Francisco Region SMT Champion

skrzastek
Member

Region: Blue Ridge Region
Car #: #91
Year : 1992
Posts: 111
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quote:
Originally posted by Sean Yepez:
What you guys really need is a claimer rule.

And please claim my original 180k motor....

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#91 SSM

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Mediocrity rules!

Region: SouthEast
Car #: 28
Year : 95
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Claimer rule is something that is being considered.

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Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

Leah Epting Verified Driver
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Region: Washington DC
Car #: 07
Year : 1991
Posts: 41
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In Wash. DC (SCCA), where we can fill a track with 25-40 SSM cars, a compliance fee was brought up as part of our rules discussion, and is, I believe, still on the table. (soeaking of which, might be time to resurrect that thread.)

It has some support and some resistance. Support in principle is easy; sure we should pay to educate and equip tech to keep the class legal, provided there is transparency, as Rob brought up earlier.

I think the resistance is on the more practical level though. With a field as large as ours, it is understood that we are in fact an entry level class and a lot of folks are scraping change out from the sofa cushions to make any given race weekend. So, there is a certain amount of "Cripes, what do you want more money for now?" sentiment. And indeed, the rationale is a little more annoying for those of us who need binoculars to look waaaay up the grid to spot the folks who will be tested and scrutinized for compliance in the first place.

Chris Windsor Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
windsorcustoms.com

Region: WDCR,
Car #: 38
Year : 1991
Posts: 841
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I think the compliance fee for tools and equipment is unneeded I believe that the sanctioning body should supply their tech with some of the tools needed to check compliance from all the entry fees for all the classes period. Then those tools could be used also by the class reps or administrators to do some checking via lottery

Now should you still want the fee, it could go towards the gaskets, seals, swap parts, dyno time

SSM has been called Showroom Spec Miata for years in the NorthEast and 2 years ago the DC Region started a voluntary engine sealing program that consisted of sealing the valve cover and tuning to a specified HP via the AFM and sealing that with Seal tape.(this works with the 1.6 no action has been taken with the 1.8 that is allowed to run, just overweight)

1) Anyone could volunteer to seal, it started with many of the front runners then to drivers throughout the field
2) the seal program had brought the cars into a window of HP
3) Is this perfect? NO but this started progress and kept the engine wars to a budget.

Now we have as happens in racing people recognizing the holes in the system how it can be gamed so what to do?

If we went with "Sealed" Spec Miata in order to make it work better we would have to seal more items such as
1) t-body
2) intake to head
3) exhaust Manifold to head
4) Manifold to down Pipe
5) Down Pipe to Comp Exhaust
6) ECU
All the above is simple to do

7) now the engine- it could be built (gamed) to make certain levels of torque or HP at a specified RPM Blah Blah Blah...before it is sealed but...if we can we get Mazda involved to Supply a sealed crate that has the head shaved and the assembly deburred and checked over? at a reasonable cost?
sure you could buy and dyno a bunch of engines to get the cherry but if the AFM was setting the MAX then the benifits would be small.

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2011 Season schedule coming soon
Support, sales, repair or rental
windsorcustoms.com

JIM DANIELS
Guest


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quote:
If we went with "Sealed" Spec Miata in order to make it work better we would have to seal more items such as
1) t-body
2) intake to head
3) exhaust Manifold to head
4) Manifold to down Pipe
5) Down Pipe to Comp Exhaust
6) ECU
All the above is simple to do

7) now the engine- it could be built (gamed) to make certain levels of torque or HP at a specified RPM Blah Blah Blah...before it is sealed but...if we can we get Mazda involved to Supply a sealed crate that has the head shaved and the assembly deburred and checked over? at a reasonable cost?
sure you could buy and dyno a bunch of engines to get the cherry but if the AFM was setting the MAX then the benifits would be small.

If you guys just added those items and used the crate motor pre-sealed approach, would be a greatly enhanced "spec" spec class. [thumbsup]

Leah Epting Verified Driver
Member

Region: Washington DC
Car #: 07
Year : 1991
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Well, the only problem with that becomes: What is "reasonable"? I refer you to those of us in what Chris likes to call "working man's land," scraping change out of the sofa cushions, etc. My "reasonable" is a $250 engine out of a woodshed, found on Craigslist, and rebuilt in my garage. See above for an original 180k motor and there's more where ours came from. I'm not sure how consistent it is with the low cost, entry level intent of the class to insist on a professionally built engine.

breathesfire Verified Driver
flirting with disaster

Region: South Jersey
Year : 91
Posts: 121
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quote:
Originally posted by JIM DANIELS:
quote:
If we went with "Sealed" Spec Miata in order to make it work better we would have to seal more items such as
1) t-body
2) intake to head
3) exhaust Manifold to head
4) Manifold to down Pipe
5) Down Pipe to Comp Exhaust
6) ECU
All the above is simple to do

7) now the engine- it could be built (gamed) to make certain levels of torque or HP at a specified RPM Blah Blah Blah...before it is sealed but...if we can we get Mazda involved to Supply a sealed crate that has the head shaved and the assembly deburred and checked over? at a reasonable cost?
sure you could buy and dyno a bunch of engines to get the cherry but if the AFM was setting the MAX then the benifits would be small.

If you guys just added those items and used the crate motor pre-sealed approach, would be a greatly enhanced "spec" spec class. [thumbsup]
Why don't we all buy MX-5 cup cars, or better yet, 911 GT3 Cup cars?

Pete Maerz (rooting through the couch for next year's racing budget).

[ 11-26-2009, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: breathesfire ]

Weekend Warrior Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Racing to Cure ALS (Lou Gehrig's Disease)

Region: WDCR
Car #: 56 "Earl"
Year : 1990, 1999 soon to be SM
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quote:
Originally posted by John Mueller:
....after a week in Utah trying to keep up with Jason I finally learned how to drive these silly chick cars (well kinda)...

Lord help us, he learned from Jason.....

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http://www.olsinvestfinancial.com
http://www.alsinfo.org
http://www.weekendwarriorracing.com

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Mediocrity rules!

Region: SouthEast
Car #: 28
Year : 95
Posts: 3756
Status: Offline
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Scary, no?

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Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

   

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