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Author Topic: Data Acquisition and Display
cpdenis
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I'm in the market for a data acquisition/display system. I have past experience with the MyChron/Aim system on karts, display, then download with g-force generator and track map.
I'm trying to find out if there is a system out there that plugs directly into the ECU or whatever, to read rpm, speed, engine temp, lap times, oil pressure, shift light on a display that I can download and compare laps, theoreticals, track map.
I'm trying to avoid having to run leads to all the outputs or wheel sensors.
I look forward to your input.
Thank you
CP

Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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Cannot go wrong with Traqmate. The most important aspect of data is having a large user base to compare your own data with. In SM Traqmate is the data system of choice, with more users than any other system.

In my case as a newbie, most of my gains through the last two years were through disciplined use of the Traqmate data. Amazing what you will find there if you are prepared to spend the time looking.

Simple system, no beacons required - GPS system, provides speed, track layout, brake-turn-cast zones, g-forces, etc. Easy inputs for RPM, temp, AFR etc.

Definitely reccommend the integration of video such as Chase Cam or other, as the video will help explain the data eg. why is my toop speed so fast on lap 14 - oh yeah, forgot about that push by Paul in the A-Class Mustang! - thanks Paul!)

--------------------
Danny
http://www.dannysteyn.com
http://www.adeptstudios.com
OPM Autosports | Traqmate | Rossini Racing Engines
2010 June Sprints Champ, 2010 ARRC SMX Champ
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I'll second what Danny said! Another added benefit of Traqmate is that so many people have one it is easy to find someone who will let you compare runs or give you some data for a new track. Also the customer service is second to none and the traqmate people are often at the track racing themselves.

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
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Teamfour Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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+1 on the TraqMate system.

--------------------
Lee Tilton
1993 Meowta #04
Brimtek Motorsports/ Team Four Racing
Team Four Racing

Greg Bush Verified Driver
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Check your local area. I don't know where cpdenis is, but around the PNW AiM outnumbers Traqmate by 10 to 1.

I agree you should get whatever the local guys have as long as they will share the data.

Sean Allen Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Second what Greg says. I'm not sure we have a single traqmate here in SFR, but we have a ton of AIM systems.

38BFAST Verified Driver
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AIM EVO4 with A Micron dash is a good AIM solution for SM. It can plug into the OBDII systems.

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Ralph Provitz
#38
2008 WHRRI SM Champion
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V2 Motorsports, Race support, Data Dude

chrisp993 Verified Driver
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Traqmate won't take additional inputs without a $200 adapter and can't plug into the OBDII / I port. Great system but not very expandable.

Like Ralph say, if you want the additional inputs or want OBD-II data, AIM is a good system, also Race Technology DL-1 which now has (+$300 license) video integration. Both of these systems are more powerful / expandable but the software is not as user-friendly as Traqmate.

The best advice is to get what everyone else has!

cpdenis
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Thanks for all the input. Traqmate sounds great but doesn't have the add'l inputs. I guess the decision is whether I want a complete dashboard/data acquisition or just lap times/data acquisition.
CP

amolaver Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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i'm mostly happy with my g2x. the display (included in the base system vs much extra $) is much better than traqmate, and way cheaper than adding the dash to the dl1

what you really need to do is download the software from each of the mfr's you're considering and some sample data. even better if someone will front you some of their SM data to play with (from a track you know). IMO, the g2x sw is acceptable, but not great. as i recall, the dl1 software is powerful, but more confusing (to me) than the g2x. i think the traqmate sw is the easiest.

one system that i just discovered is race keeper (http://www.race-keeper.com). they APPEAR to have the best video integration of all of them, but i have not played with their software yet to see how good it is on the analysis side. having dealt with a minidv (tape) video, pulling it from the camera, then syncing it with the data, then outputting to a finished file is annoying. yes, trackvision makes the process less annoying, but it is still additional steps. while having video recorded onto computer media (CF/SD/etc) would eliminate one of the hassles (pulling from the tape/camera), having the data/vid automagically synced would be nicer. time messing with that stuff is time not spent looking at the data...

IMO, theoretically the sharing of data is important. in practice though, the data you want is from the fast guys, and most will not willingly hand theirs over.

be aware, you need to spend a significant amount of time with the software to really get value from the systems. for me, i spend at least two hours after every weekend, and i generally don't look at practice data unless 1) i laid down a really fast lap, or 2) i'm testing something.

--------------------
ahm - http://www.awesom-oracing.com
2009 NASA MA SM Champion

Scott Faris Verified Driver
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I keep seeing race keeper advertised and have looked at their website, but does anyone have any actual experience with their system?

38BFAST Verified Driver
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Whatever system you have or get make sure you can mount it in a way that it can be removed and put in someone elseís car. This way If you donít have the same system as the car you want to get data from, you can quickly remove it from your car and put it into theirs.

The AIM Smarty Cam is nice for that. Small, data and video, internal power. Suction cup it on and go. 30 second install.

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Ralph Provitz
#38
2008 WHRRI SM Champion
2008 WHRRI Top 10 Overall
V2 Motorsports, Race support, Data Dude

CP Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by amolaver:
i'm mostly happy with my g2x. the display (included in the base system vs much extra $) is much better than traqmate, and way cheaper than adding the dash to the dl1

I too have a G2X and really like the dash display. However the software sucks to the point that I don't even want to use it. Maybe they've updated it in the 2 years since I bought my G2X. But the GPS-based system and segment timing info is great while out on the track, as is the lap counter and shift lights. I mounted mine right in front of my speedo.

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-Cy
Supported by LTD Racing & Speed Shack - New England's Premier Auto Accessory Store
Rt1 AutoMile - Norwood, MA
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Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I can honestly say that the front runners here in Florida will not only share their data with you, but they will sit down and analyze your lap versus theirs to help you get faster. Cliffie B., Todd Buras, George Munson, Glenn, and others have all helped me in the past year. Most of the drivers in the Southeast run the Traqmate system. Some integrate video, rpm, afm, etc. with their Traqmate. The software is the key if you want to analyze your driving and figure out how to go faster. I use a gauge for water temp and a gauge for oil pressure with an Autometer progressive shift light.

--------------------
Paul McLester

amolaver Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by CP:
quote:
Originally posted by amolaver:
i'm mostly happy with my g2x. the display (included in the base system vs much extra $) is much better than traqmate, and way cheaper than adding the dash to the dl1

I too have a G2X and really like the dash display. However the software sucks to the point that I don't even want to use it. Maybe they've updated it in the 2 years since I bought my G2X. But the GPS-based system and segment timing info is great while out on the track, as is the lap counter and shift lights. I mounted mine right in front of my speedo.
if you haven't updated the g2x software in two years, you're missing out. there is both firmware updates for the box (i assume you have the black one - there is a red one now that records to SD instead of CF) and many updates to the desktop software - they released another update in september of '09. if you update the box, find out how to reset the # of cylinders it thinks you have because the tach will revert to 1/2 rpm. the updates also include predictive lap timing, and the desktop software is much improved. still annoying, but much better. syncing with video has been brought inside as well (via a partnership with trackvision i believe).

anyway... paul, i wish i could say the same for my area, but then again, i run with NASA, and frankly not many people run data. its seems like there is one of everything though - traqmate/dl1/aim/g2x/racr-eye/etc. i think i'm the token g2x guy [Smile]

EDIT: URL for g2x downloads is http://www.racepak.com/downloads/

[ 12-30-2009, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: amolaver ]

--------------------
ahm - http://www.awesom-oracing.com
2009 NASA MA SM Champion

amolaver Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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adding fuel to the fire... just discovered chasecam has added a data module to their lineup - 10hz gps module, accelerometers, and data analysis built into their dashware software. http://www.chasecam.com/catalog/26/dataacquisition

again, no experience with it, but would love to hear from someone who's used it. it looks simpler than all the others (and so makes me wonder what its missing).

--------------------
ahm - http://www.awesom-oracing.com
2009 NASA MA SM Champion

cooleyjb
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It's so simple that it's not up to the task. The software doesn't have the ability to compare laps yet. All it shows is data traces, one lap at a time. Huge let down when I saw it at PRI.

It's fine if you want data overlay on video and don't really learn staring at the data traces, but if you're looking for software that will be able to show quantitative differences in laps you should look elsewhere until they get the software upgraded.

amolaver Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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geez, tough to call it 'analysis' software if you can't compare even lap to lap. that's a dissapointment [Frown] thanks for the info.

--------------------
ahm - http://www.awesom-oracing.com
2009 NASA MA SM Champion

johng1814
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I have been reading alot about Trackmate and AIM systems. Does anyone have experience with the products from Rumblestrip Racing. I am starting my second year in SM racing, here in the SF region we have a sealed engine Spec Miata class that runs along with the regular SMT cars. With the engine sealed, I do not think I need to have all the data provided by the TM and AIM Systems.Besides that I am 62 years old and truly computer challenged. Any thoughts on this.

Brian Ghidinelli Verified Driver
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John - regardless of whether the engine is sealed or not, the TM and AIM systems are going to show you minimum critical data like speed and RPM overlaid on a track map. The magic is (and what apparently the ChaseCam doesn't do) that you can compare one lap on top of another (or 10 laps all together). This helps you identify moments of bravery as you're learning and helps you figure out where to concentrate on going faster.

Don't let the computer aspect of things bog you down; one of us can show you at the track and once you have it running you do the same 3-4 things over and over.

If you're in SFR, get the AIM system since that's what everyone else has. Makes it possible to trade data and compare directly.

johng1814
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Thanks for the tip Brian, which AIM system do you have, are you happy with it or do you feel the need to upgrade? I saw Sean's thread that most guys in SF Region use AIM systems and share. From my first year experience I can agree that the other SM drivers are great about sharing info which was a pleasant surprise, on the track I cannot say they are as generous!

DionJ Verified Driver
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Many people in SFR run the Rumblestrip in addition to their data system. The large predictive lap time display is very useful in qualifying, and for instant feedback...

38BFAST Verified Driver
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John there are two aspects to DA.
1) Is the driver.
Sensors: Steering angle sensor, Throttle position sensor and brake pressure sensor. This combined with G force and speed tells the story about the driver.

2) Is the car.
Sensors: Oil pressure, Oil temp, Water temp, AFM, Shock Pots, Inlet Air temp, Tire Temp, Tire pressure, Trans temp, Diff temp, Load Cells and on and on.

You have to decide what you want to log and for what reason. Also where will the most time be gained. The car or the driver.

My recommendation would be if you are not in the top 10 then spend the money on the driver.

If you are in the top 10, the more you log the more can be gained.

As far as software goes the more powerful the longer it will take to learn. TM is very quick and easy to use. Excellent base system. AIM software can do a lot and support a lot of sensors. Learning curve is a bit more but not that bad for basic analysis. The AIM lineup is very expandable. If you do buy one system and find it not for you resale is very high on TM and AIM.

I have been using data for years now. I could not imagine running without it. Yes it has cost me a bunch of money. But at the same time I believe that it has saved me 10x my investment. Track time is not cheap and to maximize that time to be productive I need to do as much as I can off track.

I will give you a example. From looking at the data I can find out what turns that I am maxing the car out in verses what turns the driver is the weak point. Now I know what turns to work on and leave the other ones alone. Without this data I could be trying to push harder in a turn where the car can't take anymore. If the car can't take more then I risk a close up view of the wall. Also it is just wasting tire's, brakes, gas and expensive track time.

The more time you spend with data the more you will learn off the track. It will also make your track time more productive.

--------------------
Ralph Provitz
#38
2008 WHRRI SM Champion
2008 WHRRI Top 10 Overall
V2 Motorsports, Race support, Data Dude

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quote:
Originally posted by johng1814:
Thanks for the tip Brian, which AIM system do you have, are you happy with it or do you feel the need to upgrade? I saw Sean's thread that most guys in SF Region use AIM systems and share. From my first year experience I can agree that the other SM drivers are great about sharing info which was a pleasant surprise, on the track I cannot say they are as generous!

John for SM I would recomend the EVO 4 (GPS based System) with a Mycron dash and a Smarty Cam.

Or upscale to the MXL pista + with the Smarty

--------------------
Ralph Provitz
#38
2008 WHRRI SM Champion
2008 WHRRI Top 10 Overall
V2 Motorsports, Race support, Data Dude

Greg Bush Verified Driver
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If you don't want to spend thousands of dollars on the above system, and AiM Mychron 3 Gold Auto will do the trick for under a grand, and the data is compatible.

Just the temp warning alone has saved me 2 engines and paid for itself.

Don't drink the GPS koolaid, its not a must have.

Nigel Stu Verified Driver
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my 2 cents - I have usage experience with TM, DL1 and G2X and have researched AIM and a few others.

The TM is probably the best/easiest way to get a system in your car quickly and see the basics of what you're doing so you can find the big chunks of improvement. Pluses are the easy/simple software and lower cost. Negatives as stated earlier, lack of expandability. Think of it as the 80%max system with the 60% cost.

Race Technology DL1 is an excellent system. More expandability/capability on hardware side and more powerful software than TM. Can plug into OBD2 cars. Little more involved to learn the software, but not difficult. The newer Dash3/lite display is pretty straight forward and similar to G2x and TM displays. Cost is a bit higher (DL1/Dash3 ~$200 more than TM complete), but so are the abilities. Think of this one as the 85-95% system with the 65-75% cost.


In full disclosure, I'm a bit partial to the TM and DL1 systems. For my company, I have researched most of the systems available and as a result chose these 2 as the best performance/value in my eyes. I'll be replacing the G2X in my car now with a DL1 / Dash3 for this year.

--------------------
Ben Schaut
Schaut Speed Motorsports
GLDiv / WHRRI
#66 Blue/White/Black

johng1814
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Thanks to all who have added their opinions in response to my question, as usual the number of responses and the units recommended vary the same as 'what cold tire pressures do you recommend' I do appreciate all the responses and welcome more, especially would like to hear from those using the Rumblestrip Racing products. Will add another question, what in car cameras do you recommend and why?

Thanks all, John

Brian Ghidinelli Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by johng1814:
which AIM system do you have, are you happy with it or do you feel the need to upgrade?

I had a MyChron 3 Gold in my previous car and I'm planning to put the same or the very similar XG Log (which supports 5 instead of 4 analog sensors) in this time. It's right about $1000 and it provides you with the everything you need for a long time.

I personally have reservations about GPS systems... I see people rely on them for comparing lines in a corner but the absolute accuracy of GPS without special modes is something like +/- 6-9' the last time I did research on it. What GPS _is_ really good at is relative position from one reading to the next so it is perfect for data acquisition but it would only be so-so in my understanding of trying to see if you were 1" or 12" off of an apex in a corner. If these assumptions still hold true, I think GPS is only a nice to have. The main advantage being you don't have to install a wheel speed sensor so it's faster to install a unit.

As for cameras... oh boy, now you're opening a can of worms! [Smile]

   

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