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Author Topic: Are stock hubs a weak point?
dtfastbear Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
faster than the average bear...

Region: SFR / NorCal
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I'll be transparent and say that I am not asking because I want to know for Prod racing, but for my V8 miata conversion that I'm now racing... In my very first race, I completely sheared off a rear hub. I'm wondering if this was because I was an idiot and didn't replace the original 19 year old hub with a new one, or if the way the stock hubs are made just won't take the abuse that 300+HP and wider, stickier rubber will put on it?

Does anyone make miata rear hubs out of better materials for the Prod racers?

Thanks in advance for any advice/info,

Dean

--------------------
NASA Nor Cal SM series Director
www.molaps.com

Winner - Ford Racing Mustang Challenge Driver Shootout

Evil Genius Racing / Race Engineering / Stewart Development

Pat Newton Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Enduro addict

Region: Northwest, Oregon
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Year : 90
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Did you call FM? They offer beefy high horsepower hubs with the V8 kits for both the Getrag and the Ford rearends.

P.S. You gotta post the video, it was awesome. [Smile]

--------------------
Crew Chief, 3D Racing #64, aka Team Scrappy 2.0
3rd place E2, 2009 25 Hours of Thunderhill

Crew Chief, EGR/Miller Motorsports #64, aka Team Scrappy
E2 Champions, 2008 25 Hours of Thunderhill

TillerTech
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Region: SoPac
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Year : 89
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Dean,

in a word, yes.
Look around, I was looking at some front hubs that have roller style bearings in them.

On another note, who would name a race car Edward?!? It makes me think it should have a pocket protector on the visor......

John

--------------------
Miata Race glass and CF from Legacy Molds. 4 1/2# CF Hood
http://www.jnent.net

Sean Allen Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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All of the high horsepower Miata Challenge cars run stock untouched rear hubs as far as I know.

dtfastbear Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
faster than the average bear...

Region: SFR / NorCal
Car #: 72
Year : 93
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Hey John,

Yeah - I've seen the front hubs that V8Roadsters has developed with angled roller bearings. I assume those things would handle tons of force and would take the front hubs from being a weekly maintenance item to a bullet proof solution.

More information on my own rear hub failure:

a) it wasn't a stock hub - it was a new hub that was modified to accept the larger rear axles that are part of the V8 conversion.

b) I think that I caused this failure through inattention to detail. I ran the car on the dyno with the right rear axle nut untorqued. A week or more after the dyno session, I realized that the axle nut had not been torqued and that there was a LOT of play in the wheel/bearing/hub assembly. I'll bet that this caused stress fractures in the hub or at the very least, fatigued it. All that wobble under all that load?? I'm just happy it didn't let go ON the dyno.

c) this is probably all a moot point, because V8Roadsters is developing a very robust road-racing specific rear hub with more material in the right places and constructing it from a harder material. I'm getting a set of these on the car before I run it again.

Thanks for the input, guys.

Cheers,

Dean

--------------------
NASA Nor Cal SM series Director
www.molaps.com

Winner - Ford Racing Mustang Challenge Driver Shootout

Evil Genius Racing / Race Engineering / Stewart Development

DionJ Verified Driver
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Region: SF
Car #: 68
Year : 91
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Dean, post the link to your vimeo video. That car is a whole different animal isn't it...Is that 1st gear in 11 and 2 or 3rd?...awesome...

TillerTech
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Dean,

As over engineered for the time the early cars were, the fact that using ball bearings has a limited load life. Just by switching to a tapered rolling element and keeping the same general size increases the load/life rating a ton.

You are probably correct about the hub being loose and working around without the complete support from a stacked assy.

It might be worth your while to find a reasonable non-destructive inspection facility near you and start having parts checked. (the new hubs) You would be amazed what happens to a pc of steel over its service life.

John

--------------------
Miata Race glass and CF from Legacy Molds. 4 1/2# CF Hood
http://www.jnent.net

dtfastbear Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
faster than the average bear...

Region: SFR / NorCal
Car #: 72
Year : 93
Posts: 1276
Status: Offline
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Here's the video:

http://vimeo.com/11412173

Yes, the car is definitely a whole different animal! I have a lot to learn in driving it, and you can see in the video how sloppy I was in the turns, just relying on HP... I'll clean that up and start kicking some ITE ass. That's 3rd gear in T2 and T11!

John - what would I search for to find an inspection facility? This whole idea of custom machined parts is all new to me.

Cheers,

Dean

--------------------
NASA Nor Cal SM series Director
www.molaps.com

Winner - Ford Racing Mustang Challenge Driver Shootout

Evil Genius Racing / Race Engineering / Stewart Development

TillerTech
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Dean,

search non-destructive testing or look around an airport for testing facilities.

Most places will check parts for you cheap if they do not have to supply certifications (aircraft). I just have them mark the part where the cracks appear and make a sketch for my records. Crankshafts and rods most often.

Also, an old trick on the halfshafts, paint a line over the length. If you get any twist set in you will see it. I could see 90 degrees before I replaced them.

John

John

--------------------
Miata Race glass and CF from Legacy Molds. 4 1/2# CF Hood
http://www.jnent.net

d mathias Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Year : 1991
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(Tangent-warning) Tell me that Volvo had more than a 1.8L 4-banger. I've never seen a P1800 race before.

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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We have P1800 wagon racing here in Florida!

--------------------
Paul McLester

cam Verified Driver
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I know this is the F-Prod sub form, but just got to ask. What class and rules are you running under? Is ITE a local regional class in your area? Is there a NASA equilvent? Got a spec sheet for your V8 conversion? Wonder how it would hold up in an endurance event, maybe early December in North Cali?

TIA

--------------------
"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
~Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
~Thomas Jefferson

dtfastbear Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
faster than the average bear...

Region: SFR / NorCal
Car #: 72
Year : 93
Posts: 1276
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Sorry to polute the Prod forum!!! I didn't know where else to turn.

As for that Volvo - it apparently is a 2.0L, but is mostly stock in its configuration - intake and exhaust "on the same side" whatever that means. I overheard some guys talking about it. That being said, the motor says Huffaker on it. [Smile] [Smile]

As for my car - ITE is a local class that essentially has two rules: 1) production car tub and 2) DOT-R tires (no slicks). That's it. It is essentially an open class, and the field shows that. The volvo was running in a production class, btw. In ITE there was a very, very, very fast E46 BMW, a 3rd gen rx7 with a 450HP stroked LS1, a 550HP turbo charged S2000, a big $$$$ subaru STi, a turbo charged and winged Honda Civic, another 3rd gen RX7, and on and on...

NASA equivalent is SU. I want to detune the car by a few HP and get in to the NASA power/weight class of ST2 (8.7lbs per 1 WHP). I think I could kick some ass at the NASA Nationals if I'm right at the top of that class.

My car is a stock LS1, spec miata suspension, 225 Hankooks on 15x8 wheels, wilwood 4-p calipers with corrado rotors on the front, 2001 sport miata brakes on the back. 2600 lbs with me in it.

I'd like to run it in shorter endurance events first and find the weak points before even thinking about those pesky December races...

Cheers,

Dean

--------------------
NASA Nor Cal SM series Director
www.molaps.com

Winner - Ford Racing Mustang Challenge Driver Shootout

Evil Genius Racing / Race Engineering / Stewart Development

Johnny D Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Here's a project car in SFR if anyone is intersted in playing with Dean.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/pts/1725698182.html
J~

Pat Newton Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Enduro addict

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Charles, you're on the right track. I will claim (and I think I'm right) that this cockamamie LS1 idea was hatched in the EGR/MM pits in December 2008. [Big Grin]

I knew we could count on Deano, Laura, Pagel and the Miller boys to execute it. [yep]

--------------------
Crew Chief, 3D Racing #64, aka Team Scrappy 2.0
3rd place E2, 2009 25 Hours of Thunderhill

Crew Chief, EGR/Miller Motorsports #64, aka Team Scrappy
E2 Champions, 2008 25 Hours of Thunderhill

dtfastbear Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
faster than the average bear...

Region: SFR / NorCal
Car #: 72
Year : 93
Posts: 1276
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I will state for the record that I think I got duped into "owning" this project during the wee hours of the night at the 25 in 2008 while I was delirious. I was quite bitter about that for the 13 months it took to build, but couldn't be happier since the first time I fired up the engine. [Smile]

--------------------
NASA Nor Cal SM series Director
www.molaps.com

Winner - Ford Racing Mustang Challenge Driver Shootout

Evil Genius Racing / Race Engineering / Stewart Development

mtm68 Verified Driver
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Car #: 67
Year : 1990
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I don't think there was any duping [Smile]

TillerTech
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Duping, no, drinking, maybe.

The truth is, it was a Miller who started it!!!

If I had been there, it would have been a 13B with twin turbos and Haltech!!

J

--------------------
Miata Race glass and CF from Legacy Molds. 4 1/2# CF Hood
http://www.jnent.net

mtm68 Verified Driver
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Year : 1990
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I tried the 13b route but its not very easy either....


The two most reasonable things (what? reasonable + racing???) would be an LSI swap ala Edward, or a turbo kit (ala my joe dirt car).

TillerTech
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It will be interesting to see the turbo car run.

I have a guy who wants to build a 914/V8 here.
This will be an adventure, I can see it coming.

I know where a jet turbine is...........

--------------------
Miata Race glass and CF from Legacy Molds. 4 1/2# CF Hood
http://www.jnent.net

mtm68 Verified Driver
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Year : 1990
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914/v8; one for sale on SF CL.

And yes, we'll see.

TillerTech
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Like every one else, he doesn't want to buy a car, he wants to build a new one. I am already looking to tool up to shorten the turbo trans housing to fit.

I am heading off to ElMirage the next couple weekends, something different.

J

--------------------
Miata Race glass and CF from Legacy Molds. 4 1/2# CF Hood
http://www.jnent.net

RHarris Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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If I am not mistaken, I think the 99 rear hubs are the same but just a little beefer. The uppoer control arm mount on the rear hub seems to have more material around the bushing.

I do know that an E Prod Miata had a rear hub failure at VIR a few weeks ago.

On my F Prod Miata, I have twisted two rear hubs over the past 2.5 years.

I have some products from V8 Roadsters and they fabricate some really nice parts.

--------------------
Rick Harris
F Production - A place for 1.6 Miata's

http://www.v8roadsters.com/

http://jesseprathermotorsports.com/
http://www.wbrgraphics.com/
http://haremotorsports.blogspot.com/
2008 F Production National Champion

   

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