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Author Topic: Pre Miller Dyno Results
Shawn@sampsonracing.com Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Just pulled our last Dyno runs before heading to Miller for the National Championship.

The motor came in at 123.9HP and 105.8 on Tq. The HP and Tq crossed at 5300RPM which was max tq and ran that way until about 6k before falling off. The Hp curved topped out at 6600rpm before dropping off to about 115hp at 7200rpm.

What does all this mean in a 2250LBS former SM car.... we'll find out but w/ a good set-up under the car and some luck [scratchchin] I think we should have a car that will be fun to drive and [thumbsup]

--------------------
Shawn Sampson/Sampson Racing Communications
Offical NASA Racing Communication Company
NASA SM/PTE/E3
2005- 1st Place EO 25 Hour Enduro NASA 86' Mazda Rx7 (RIP)
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suck fumes Verified Driver
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are people supposed to be intimidated.

--------------------
THAT JUST HAPPENED!!! -RickyBobby-

Jeff Lyon Verified Driver
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Hey Shawn, due to the relationship between Torque and HP they always cross at 5250rpms [Big Grin]

HP = (Tq x RPM)/5250

So at 5250 HP and Tq will always be equal.

--------------------
Jeff
NorCal/SFR
OneStopRaceShop

Shawn@sampsonracing.com Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by suck fumes:
are people supposed to be intimidated.

Not sure if your busting my balls or being funny? No, its just a FYI for folks. I guess you missed the point of the tread? Its to Help folks and give them some info as a reference.

Hey Jeff hope all is well- Thanks for the inf. Not really up on the specifics just wanted to throw it out. I'm sure folks can do much better with more work and better tuning when is comes to Tq?

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Shawn Sampson/Sampson Racing Communications
Offical NASA Racing Communication Company
NASA SM/PTE/E3
2005- 1st Place EO 25 Hour Enduro NASA 86' Mazda Rx7 (RIP)
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trimless1 Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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What class are you running the car in Shawn?

--------------------
Gale Corley
99 SM GRE Super Deluxe
93 SM GRE Jr. Deluxe

Shawn@sampsonracing.com Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Hey Gale- Sorry running under NASA's PTE rules (weight to HP)- Running with min. weight of 2250lbs. and a max 125hp.

The car is a 1.6l

--------------------
Shawn Sampson/Sampson Racing Communications
Offical NASA Racing Communication Company
NASA SM/PTE/E3
2005- 1st Place EO 25 Hour Enduro NASA 86' Mazda Rx7 (RIP)
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Sean Allen Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Should be fun! There may be some cars there with 140hp though...

Shawn@sampsonracing.com Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Hey Sean - That's what I figured. Shit the Mazda Rx7 has over 160hp... Its not a end all but will weight and handling win-out over HP??? Miller is that place for sure-

--------------------
Shawn Sampson/Sampson Racing Communications
Offical NASA Racing Communication Company
NASA SM/PTE/E3
2005- 1st Place EO 25 Hour Enduro NASA 86' Mazda Rx7 (RIP)
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motorrock
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I think it's great idea.....

I sat down and try to figure how to run Hoosier radial slicks and still stay in PTE......now that would be killer !!

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philstireservice.com
philstireservice@aol.com

Dusty Bottoms Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
99 all the way!

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quote:
Originally posted by suck fumes:
are people supposed to be intimidated.

I meant to ask you the same about your Displayed Name. [Big Grin] [Smash] [rolling on floor laughin]

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"Your victory is tainted! Asterisk! Asterisk!!!"--Lisa Simpson

suck fumes Verified Driver
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LOL!

--------------------
THAT JUST HAPPENED!!! -RickyBobby-

suck fumes Verified Driver
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Not sure if your busting my balls or being funny? No, its just a FYI for folks. I guess you missed the point of the tread? Its to Help folks and give them some info as a reference.


Yes i'm just giving you a hard time, i just felt like being a smart ass that day haha. You build the motor?

--------------------
THAT JUST HAPPENED!!! -RickyBobby-

Jeff Lyon Verified Driver
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Hey Shawn,

never got a chance to stop by and say Hi at Miller. I hope you enjoyed it, I had a blast. Looked like the competition in PTE was pretty strong. Those '99's and 01's would bolt on their Hoosiers and Megasquirts and take off like rockets! [Eek!]

Congrats to Tyler for the victory.

--------------------
Jeff
NorCal/SFR
OneStopRaceShop

Gibscreen Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Lyon:
Hey Shawn,

never got a chance to stop by and say Hi at Miller. I hope you enjoyed it, I had a blast. Looked like the competition in PTE was pretty strong. Those '99's and 01's would bolt on their Hoosiers and Megasquirts and take off like rockets! [Eek!]

Congrats to Tyler for the victory.

99s and 01s don't need the Megasquirts (and would probably be over on points and/or hp if they had them). They just need to pull their restrictors, pull ballast and add Hoosiers.

--------------------
Rob Gibson
RJ Racing
2010 NASA Nationals TTE Champion
2008/2009 WERC Champion
2007 NASA SoCal SM Champion
rjracing.net
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Sean Allen Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Wish I could have made it!

Shawn@sampsonracing.com Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Hey Jeff- yep I had a blast! Some great door to door racing durnig the qualifing races for sure!

A few things I learned over the Nat weekend- 1.6 needs Tq and the A6 compound might be to much for a SM on a road track-

Sat. right before the SM National race I was on the track for the TT event. My times were faster than the SM race times but only by a few 10th of a sec. (my dyno #'s at event 122.8hp). The car was really good on the tight stuff and at the end of the long straights but in MHO, the lack of TQ is a issue-

(Here comes the stones)-I ran the Hoosier A6 solo compound on the race day and was completely disappointed although the car was 3mph faster (in, mid and out) on most corners its was slower at all other points on the track. My conclusion is that the 1.6 does not have what it needs to get past the stick tires... Maybe I'm crying the blues but at the start of the race I went from 7th to 15th by T1 and never have been so pissed at myself for a race prepped decision in my life (never tested w/ the A6)- made for a long 40min race...

No way did I have a car for the front (Tyler had that spot all covered congrads to him and his Father) but I should have been able to run door to door for a spot in the top 5...

--------------------
Shawn Sampson/Sampson Racing Communications
Offical NASA Racing Communication Company
NASA SM/PTE/E3
2005- 1st Place EO 25 Hour Enduro NASA 86' Mazda Rx7 (RIP)
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http://www.SRCProducts.com
Toll Free -866-396-7231

Jeff Lyon Verified Driver
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I had heard similar comments about the 1.6's not having the torque to pull the Hoosiers around that track sufficiently. Interesting stuff.

--------------------
Jeff
NorCal/SFR
OneStopRaceShop

Sean Allen Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Were the top 5 all SM's with different tires? Any PTE specific cars out there?

Bill Cullen Verified Driver
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What's a megasquirt ?

Thanks

Jeff Lyon Verified Driver
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I think Randy Evans was running a PTE specific car, an unrestricted 1.8, but I am not positive because it was the same color and number as his SM car but I heard him refer to his "PTE" car.

The Megasquirt, to my knowledge anyway, is either a piggyback computer or it replaces the ECU entirely.

--------------------
Jeff
NorCal/SFR
OneStopRaceShop

dp35 Verified Driver
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I think the #65 car was PTE specific. Not sure how he didn't win the main, cause I believe he was 2 sec faster than anyone else in qual.

NASA PTE rules are a joke for 1.6 SM's. They don't allow anything to be changed from SM except for unobtainable weight loss.

I ran Hankook C71's (similar to Hoosier A6) in PTE at Miller, and didn't go any faster than on RA-1's.

--------------------
2010 SCCA Regional Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E1 Class winner, MX-5 Cup

Bill Cullen Verified Driver
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Great, but is a megasquirt ?

nemo65 Verified Driver
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The #65 was a brand new SM build. The car was literally completed the day before we left for Miller. The car was a tech shed legal SM with a new Drago engine with legal timing and stock ECU. Compression was tested by tech and came in at 9.4. We were running on Hoosier A6 tires, minus the restrictor plate and weight. For some reason, the engine laid down for the first half of the championship race (fuel or electrical?)as could be seen at the start. This pole sitting car was fifth into turn one and for many laps struggled to keep up. The issue seemed to clear up late in the race and the car was running down the leader at a pace of about 1 second per lap and literally set fast lap of the race on the next to last lap.

In hindsight, we should have run the new '00 build in SM. Because we had no time for testing and development of '00 set up, etc, for SM we elected to stick with the 'ol reliable Stewart 1.6 (dynoed at 119 on Miller dyno) that still set 4th quick time in the SM race. As it turned out we lucked into an almost perfect set up for the '00 that probably would have worked well with the the Toyos.

We agree the PTE rules are slanted heavily against the 1.6 and in favor of the 99-00. We probably could have picked up another 2-3 hp with with a PTE legal ECU remap.

[ 10-05-2010, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: nemo65 ]

Jeff Lyon Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by nemo65:


for SM we elected to stick with the 'ol reliable Stewart 1.6 (dynoed at 119 on Miller dyno)

What do you mean by 119 on Miller dyno???

--------------------
Jeff
NorCal/SFR
OneStopRaceShop

nemo65 Verified Driver
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Sorry. It is a solid 2 year old Stewart 1.6 engine still making 119hp on the dyno used by NASA at Miller Motorsports Park.

Tvance13
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Man - That's a BIG 1.6. I know what the other guys were making and that is much higher. In fact, Sean Sampson only made 123'ish in PTE trim. As instructed Tyler did lay up a bit at the end. Our car actually turned it's fastest lap on the white flag lap at a 2.18.034. Also on hoosiers. We never pulled all the weight until Sunday. Fully developed as a PTE car we would see considerable gains. Many areas could not be exploited easily and still be legal in SM trim, ECU and Flywheel among them. Looking back I wish we had brought a 1.6 for SM and the 01 for PTE. If temps were lower we would have been fine, but in the heat the extra weight was a killer in SM. Look at the lap times for the NB - We were 2nd quickest to Whitis, but NO ONE went under a 2.20 - The front running 1.6 cars were all in the 19's.

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http://TylerVanceRacing.com

nemo65 Verified Driver
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No offense intended. We were simply answering what happened to the car and not trying to detract from another's accomplishment or rightfully earned victory.

Review the engine parity discussions. 119hp on a dynojet is not a lot of hp from a 1.6 SM. There are a LOT of folks running 1.6s with the SCCA and NASA making over 120, and I can tell you there were many 1.6's at Miller making at least comparable hp. A lot of it seems to be regional based on the dyno being used by that group of competitors. The dynojet used as the standard bearer in the Midwest has done as many SMs as anyone and would tell you 120 is a good 1.6 engine, but not the monster 122-123 you would need for SCCA runoffs. If folks are not getting 119, everyone should be getting in line for a Stewart or Drago engine build, or better yet, let us be your distributor. I am sure Karl, Race Engineering, Sunbelt, Rossini and the many others would tell you they are getting 119-121.

Take a look at the discussion on this site concerning the August Fasttrack. Respected Southeastern folks define the 1.6 norm as 119-121 and good to be 122-123.

We agree with you the '99+ cars are by far the best Miatas for PTE. The 1.6 needs some serious help to be competitive(sounds like the rest of the discussions concerning SM....)

[ 10-05-2010, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: nemo65 ]

Tvance13
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Kyle - None taken, to be honest we got lucky and opened up a gap once you guys started racing behind us. I think the top 4 cars were close, but tire selection factored for some of the guys. I agree, the dyno results are different for each region, but I was basing that comment on what one of our teammates pulled on that Dyno. He has a pretty solid motor and it was much lower. We were only making 4 more HP than you on the same dyno, but in SM we were 165 lbs heavier ...Torque really doesn't factor as much at that track except maybe at wind up and release. I still think the 1.6 is the car to have at MMP. Hard to argue with the results and lap times. If the event was held in October, that might be another story.

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http://TylerVanceRacing.com

Shawn@sampsonracing.com Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by nemo65:
We agree with you the '99+ cars are by far the best Miatas for PTE. The 1.6 needs some serious help to be competitive(sounds like the rest if the discussions concerning SM....)

ok ready [duck] [rolling on floor laughin]

There is still some room to work w/ in regards to the 1.6 but coming from SM trim to PTE in the same day would be real a disadvantage... Working w/ the power to weight limit as I am (2250lbs/125HP)is going to be a uphill battle but hey no bubby said life was going to be easy or fair... [thumbsup]

--------------------
Shawn Sampson/Sampson Racing Communications
Offical NASA Racing Communication Company
NASA SM/PTE/E3
2005- 1st Place EO 25 Hour Enduro NASA 86' Mazda Rx7 (RIP)
http://www.SampsonRacing.com
http://www.SRCProducts.com
Toll Free -866-396-7231

Sean Allen Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Tyler, it's too bad you couldn't have used my car [Wink] you won anyways though, so I guess you didnt need it.. Great job my man! Can't wait to see you in the pro ranks. One of the nicest families I know, Tom & Tyler.

   

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