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Author Topic: Tires for SARRC / Regional
al Made Donation to Website
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Does anyone know for sure what the tire requirement is for the SARRC / Regional race at Sebring on 21 Feb? Do we have to use the 888s or can we use up our old tires?
Thanks, Al
SM 42

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Read the supps carefully and see what the organizers are doing. The national rule is 888 for Nats and RA-1 for regionals till 7-1-09

--------------------
-Tom Fowler-
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al Made Donation to Website
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Thanks Tom; The supps don't say anything about tires and I know there had been talk about alowing us to use up our old RA-1 and Housers, but there is nothing in the supps for the 21 Feb race.
Thanks Again, Al

Bob Thornton - Race Engineering Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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OPM Tom is always in the know. [yep]

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Bob Thornton
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aged racer Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I have the same question for the March Memories weekend at VIR. Read the supp's, but ???

So, can we use RA-1's for this event? Would be nice to finish out a set. (related question: would the tire rules vary between SARRC and ECR and CCPS?)

thks much- Steve

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Steve, all of those races are regionals and for regionals you can run RA-1s till 7-1 . Unless there is a series rule saying different you will be fine. We will be at the event if you need anything.

--------------------
-Tom Fowler-
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CCPS 2009 rules allow SM and SSM either RA-1s or R888's. Rain tire choice is open. We made this decision based on the 2009 GCR page 502 rule 9.1.8.6.C.2 quote:

Regional Competition
"Any DOT approved tire is permitted. Racing, recapped, or regrooved tires are not allowed. Tire size is unrestricted. The only modifications allowed to tires are having treads
“shaved” or “trued.” Individual regions may require spec tires for regional races. Supplemental regulations for specific events should be checked."

The host regions supps refer you to the 2009 CCPS rules.

With that said the 2009 SEDIV SM class rules read:

"SM class must comply with SCCA GCR and category specifications for SM. The Spec Miata tire rule for SEDiv regional races is the same tire as listed in the GCR for the Spec Miata National race class with any references in Fastrack. Rain tire choice is open.
SM Advisory Committee:
Jason Holland
Gary Jenkins"

That means that you had better check your SCCA division rules, then check the regions Supps for any given weekend's specific event and then check that specific events rules to be sure that you are legal in your SCCA division.

For all 2009 CCPS rules please check them out at http://www.carolinacupproseries.com
Estus White
wankelcity@aol.com

--------------------
everything was fine after they got the fire put out.

E-Speed Motorsports
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quote:
Originally posted by OPM AUTOSPORTS INC:
Steve, all of those races are regionals and for regionals you can run RA-1s till 7-1 . Unless there is a series rule saying different you will be fine. We will be at the event if you need anything.

Tom, You are right. I finaly found proof in writing that the SCCA Nat. BoD did in fact approve this. Here is the Nat. BoD approval of the Dec 2008 proposed RA-1's rule.

From Jan. 2009 Fastrack
MOTION: To approve the following changes to the GCR as proposed by the Club Racing Board. (Wannarka/Christian)

Spec Miata 1, PASSED
Spec Miata 2, PASSED, Abstaining, Jones

Just for reference here is the Dec 2008 Fastrack proposal that the BoD approved in Jan 2009:

Spec Miata
Item 1. Effective 1/1/09: Change section 9.1.8.C.6.o as follows:
o. Tires -
1. National Competition
All cars shall use the Toyo Proxes RA-1 R888 (205/50R15).
2. Regional Competition
Any DOT approved tire is permitted. Racing, recapped, or regrooved tires are not allowed. Tire size is unrestricted. The only modifications allowed to tires are having treads “shaved” or “trued.” Individual regions may require spec tires for regional races. Supplemental regulations for specific events should be checked.
Effective 1/1/09- All Regional SM races will use either Toyo RA-1s or Toyo 888s (205/50R15).
Effective 7/1/09- All Regional SM races will use either Toyo888s (205/50R15).

I still recomend that everyone ALWAYS READ THE SUPPS!
Now it is in black and white. We can all put the what tire RA-1/R888 thing to rest. See you all at the track.

Estus

--------------------
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E-Speed Motorsports
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I'm a little slow, is the ECR series a SEDiv regional series?

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yes [yep]

--------------------
everything was fine after they got the fire put out.

E-Speed Motorsports
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Tom and Estus, thanks for the clarification.

Steve

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"Effective 7/1/09- All Regional SM races will use either Toyo888s (205/50R15)."

What does the word "either" mean in this context? [Wink]

--------------------
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Jim Creighton
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I would like to clearly state what the tire rule is for all SARRC & ECR races in 2009. You must run the same tire as for National races.

Here is the rule as stated in the 2009 SEDiv Regional class rules as currently posted on the SARRC website.

"Spec Miata (SM)
Revised July 2005
Reviewed July 2006
Reviewed July 2007
Reviewed July 2008
SM class must comply with SCCA GCR and category specifications for SM. The Spec
Miata tire rule for SEDiv regional races is the same tire as listed in the GCR for the Spec
Miata National race class with any references in Fastrack. Rain tire choice is open.
SM Advisory Committee:
Jason Holland
Gary Jenkins"

SARRC & ECR are the only two SEDiv regional race series.

For any other races or series, you will need to read the supps.

And for those that ask, the reasoning was that for Division races series, we did not want drivers to have to have different tires for SEDiv regional series races and National races.

Please do not risk being DQ'ed by showing up at a SARRC race or an ECR race with anything other than the current National tire.

And I would again like to thank all the SM drivers in the SEDiv for supporting the SARRC series. You are our biggest class and we appreciate you support. And as SARRC did in 2009, the SM drivers who enter the SARRC Invitational Challenge in October will not be charged the extra $10 for the compliance fee. It's our way of saying thank you. And for 2009, you need only enter 3 SARRC races to qualify for the SIC. Of course, it will take 6 to be Champion.

See you at the track.

--------------------
Jim Creighton
SARRC Administrator

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quote:
Please do not risk being DQ'ed by showing up at a SARRC race or an ECR race with anything other than the current National tire.
Just so I'm clear, then there is no "grace period" until July for the RA-1 in regional competition in the SE Div.

Jim Creighton
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For all SARRC & ECR races, the "grace period" does not apply. We operate both those series under the National race tire rule.

For regional races that are not SARRC or ECR, unless the Supps say other wise, you can use the RA-1.

--------------------
Jim Creighton
SARRC Administrator

Mark McCallister Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Well that's interesting. I always assumed anything not National was by definition Regional. I was planning to use up my last set of RA-1s at the VIR ECR.

[Frown]

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Jim,
Thanks for the clarification. As everyone knows, the rules are sometimes very difficult to interpret. As I read the rules in the GCR and referenced them back to the Sediv rules, I misinterpreted them. I'm willing to admit that I am wrong.

RA-1's will still be accepted for CCPS.
Thanks to all
Estus

--------------------
everything was fine after they got the fire put out.

E-Speed Motorsports
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So it looks like the June 6-7 Sebring regional is the only time I could ever again use the RA-1s, since everything else is SARRC or ECR.

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Not trying to be a smart a$$, but isn't the grace period PART of the national tire rule? I realize Nationals are on 888's period, but our NATIONAL governing body added the grace period in the next sentance of the tire rule. If we are forced to run on the 888's, I personally know of 5 race entries for March Memories that won't happen because these guys can't bite off a new set of skins right now. I have a title to defend in the CCPS, but I'll be darned if I'm going to pony up for a new set to run extra races at the March Memories. Kinda makes the whole trip less than inviting for just one race. Given the economy, and amount of perfectly good RA-1's floating around, the grace period sounds like a really good idea to keep entries up if nothing else.

--------------------
Steve and Becca Bertok
#90 SM 2008/2009 Carolina Cup Pro Series SM champions.
2010 VIR 13 hour enduro victorious! www.panicmotorsports.com
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I second Steve! Make it 6 entries!

Claus #59

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Steve is correct that the SARRC rule will result in a loss of entries. Someone needs to take a close look at what is being done in the NEDIV and MARRS series. They are permitting either RA-1's or R-888's for the entire 2009 season. That sounds a bit more member friendly than the SARRC position.

[ 02-24-2009, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: Terry Whitlock ]

--------------------
Terry Whitlock

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As always, Jim, thank you and yours and everyone who puts on the many parts of all the SEDIV events..it's a lot of work and we all really appreciate it!

However, please let me know how I can formally protest this tire ruling. The SCCA national rule is the appropriate rule. R888s required for National Races and either tire for anything else until July 1. I was already getting a headache before I read this thread - after reading it I took two Aleve and took a nap, so yes I've slept on this position.

Anyone contending for ECR or SARRC podiums, including me, is going to fork out for whatever tire is best between now and June. Since I'm still a mid-pack guy, I just want seat time.

Living down in FLA, I'm going to be forking over $2000 for the haul up to VIR, and another $600 for a set of 3/32nds R888s that I don't even know will finish the weekend just isn't in the budget. I sent in a check for $665 for entry fees, and just endured a weekend of complaints about how crappy the back deck looks. At the moment I'm thinking I'm just going to cancel my entry and fix the deck. I am philosophically opposed to showing up at an event with known illegal equipment, mid-pack or anywhere else.

Thanks again,
-Mark

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Certainly, you can protest any rule you don't like. The SEDiv regional rules are the appropriate rules for our Regional series and are a part of the SARRC rules which have been approved by SCCA.

However, this has been the SEDiv rule since the Toyo became the official Spec Miata National tire. It was put in place to keep the playing field even.

And consider that I have already had a number of drivers ask me the question about which tire for SARRC & ECR races both in person and by email and my answer has been what I just posted.

Just this past weekend one told me he had sold all his old tires for $20 each. So how do we now nearly two months into the year tell him and the others we are changing our mind and the tires he sold for $20 are now ok to run?

The Regional race rules are posted on the SARRC website and this version has been there since August.

BTW, I have nothing to do with the Regional rules. There is a SEDiv rules Committee. I just Administer the series which includes making certain everyone plays by the same rules.

And I was on the all night flight back from the National Convention and arrived home this morning at 6 AM. Think of the headache I got when I read this thread.

As is the main theme in SM, we are striving to keep the class as even as possible. To allow drivers to use different tires does not keep with the theme. I've heard that the R-1 is faster and I've heard the 888 is slower/just as fast. I have no idea. I just know the 888 is the legal tire for SARRC & ECR races.

You can use R-1 for test days or any other non SARRC/ECR race.

--------------------
Jim Creighton
SARRC Administrator

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Jim

The rule you are stating did not appear to be in effect at the SARRC race at Sebring this weekend. The majority of the grid was on RA-1's. The guys who ran in the National races in January were on R-888's. They didn't go and buy RA-1's just for the SARRC race. Your logic would require me to have a set of R-888's for the SARRC race on Saturday and then switch back to my RA-1's I am trying to use up for the Sunday regional. I guess I won't be running the SARRC until I have to switch to R-888's for all races in July. Mark you can protest this rule by contacting your RE and race directors in the CFR region.

--------------------
Paul McLester

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Jim, thanks, I appreciate your position. Will be happy to share my bottle...of Aleve. [Smile]

I've just PM'd Jason and Gary for their input. So before I dig myself in too deep...so far on this thread I have only heard driver opinions in favor of having legal RA-1s. Those with alternative viewpoints, please speak up!

Thanks,
-Mark

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It is frustrating to know that I bought 2 sets of R888's to be rules-compliant for the SARRC series, and then see a number of other cars on the grid with the RA-1's. I didn't see anyone DQ'd for non-spec tires. I'm definitely of the opinion that the R888's are an inferior tire to the RA-1's so hopefully Sebring will be the last event where the disparity is allowed.

--------------------
The best way to make a small fortune in racing is to start out with a big one.

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I am happy with a move to the R888's as the ONLY tire for SM ASAP and as per the rules make sure that it is enforced at both Regional and National events.

What is happening at the moment is the following....

there has been a fair amount of misunderstanding regarding the regionals. Many, if not most beleived that the RA-1 would be legal till 7/1/09 to allow drivers to use up their stock of RA-1's and keep the costs down. Seems like a good idea...

HOWEVER, the RA-1 is DEFINITELY faster at Road Atlanta - (approx 2-3mph down the back straight) but it gives up some time in the corners) so drivers were buying NEW sets of RA-1's to run there (and I suspect at Sebring) so the intent of containing costs is not the reality.

Some drivers are buying new RA-1's and R888's to ensure that they have the best tire for the track (under the assumption that both tires are legal till 7/1/09), and this is obviously counter productive in terms of cost containment, so the sooner it is done the better for all.

Even Fowler who has a memory like an elephant is under the impression that RA-1's are OK in regionals, and I beleive he is a member of SMAC -I know he is looking for clarification.

So as long as we are all on the same tire all is good.

BUT the real issue which we will all face is that it appears as though the wear on the R888's is significantly faster than the R888's.

We ran the 6-hour enduro + Qualifying on the same set of RA-1's and I know guys have run the 13-hours on a set of RA-1's, but I am not sure that this is possible on the new R888's.

Time will tell!

--------------------
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2009 SARRC Champ, 2009 SEDiv ECR Champ, 2009 FES Champ
2008 SEDiv ECR Champ

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Jim,

The key point here ...

"Spec Miata (SM)
Revised July 2005
Reviewed July 2006
Reviewed July 2007
Reviewed July 2008
SM class must comply with SCCA GCR and category specifications for SM. The Spec
Miata tire rule for SEDiv regional races is the same tire as listed in the GCR for the Spec
Miata National race class with any references in Fastrack. Rain tire choice is open.
SM Advisory Committee:
Jason Holland
Gary Jenkins"

is...

REVIEWED JULY 2008.

The National rule has changed since July 2008 and as such the SEDIV rule as written and, respectfully, your interpretation of it, is now tortured. I believe that SEDIV needs to rethink.

Danny,

Again, respectfully, this statement ...

" so the sooner it is done the better for all."

only applies to the pointiest of the pointy end of the grid. The bigger chunk of "all", from the middle back, was thrilled to get to use their older but perfectly good race rubber.

I'm with Steve and Claus on this one. If anything, a one day trip to VIR for the CCPS looks like the best option under current circumstances.

Derek

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I am at the back end of the field. I am not looking for a performance advantage...just trying to save money. The rule allowing us to use up our RA-1's was changed after a lot of input from drivers. The SEDIV just missed the point. I attend the district meetings and the general discussion is about the effect of dropping car counts at the events. This rule will continue the trend of less cars=less money for the region=higher entry fees. Interesting fact that the new track record at Sebring was set on R-888's not RA-1's.

--------------------
Paul McLester

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I certainly don't want to speak out of turn, but since my name is attached to the rule cited above I guess I will toss my two cents into the ring.

The last conversation Jason and I had regarding the tire rule was PRIOR to the clarification in FastTrack that there would be a grace period for RA-1 use. Our last conversation was focused on establishing a period for SEDIV racing that would allow use of the old RA-1s. When the FastTrack was issued, we dropped the conversation as it appeared moot.

It was my understanding that at the SEDIV annual convention, the rule would be discussed and the national exception applied to the SEDIV rule. That obviously did not happen. As I wasn't there, I cannot say why. Perhaps Jason has more insight on that.

That being said, the rules are now what the rules are. In order for SARRC and ECR rules to match the GCR(FastTrack) rule there will have to be a SEDIV or SARRC/ECR rule change. As of today I still don't understand the how/why/way rules are passed for SEDIV use, but it would seem appropriate to encourage the SARRC/ECR committees to meet via conference call and see if a temporary rule change can be passed.

As the supps for all SARRC/ECR races include those rules by reference, then changing those rules would by inclusion in the supps, make the use of RA-1s legal per the FastTrack rule.

I know that no rule will make all happy, but I am certain that a burn up period for RA-1s meets the needs of the majority of SM racers in the SEDIV and not allowing it for SARRC/ECR races is a mistake.

--------------------
Gary Jenkins
SEDIV Spec Miata Advisory Committe
AOL IM:PBLRacing

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p.s. I've got a call into the Chariman of the SARRC committee. I'll let you know what I find out.

--------------------
Gary Jenkins
SEDIV Spec Miata Advisory Committe
AOL IM:PBLRacing

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quote:
Originally posted by Danny Steyn:
I am happy with a move to the R888's as the ONLY tire for SM ASAP and as per the rules make sure that it is enforced at both Regional and National events.

What is happening at the moment is the following....

there has been a fair amount of misunderstanding regarding the regionals. Many, if not most beleived that the RA-1 would be legal till 7/1/09 to allow drivers to use up their stock of RA-1's and keep the costs down. Seems like a good idea...

HOWEVER, the RA-1 is DEFINITELY faster at Road Atlanta - (approx 2-3mph down the back straight) but it gives up some time in the corners) so drivers were buying NEW sets of RA-1's to run there (and I suspect at Sebring) so the intent of containing costs is not the reality.

Some drivers are buying new RA-1's and R888's to ensure that they have the best tire for the track (under the assumption that both tires are legal till 7/1/09), and this is obviously counter productive in terms of cost containment, so the sooner it is done the better for all.

Even Fowler who has a memory like an elephant is under the impression that RA-1's are OK in regionals, and I beleive he is a member of SMAC -I know he is looking for clarification.

So as long as we are all on the same tire all is good.

BUT the real issue which we will all face is that it appears as though the wear on the R888's is significantly faster than the R888's.

We ran the 6-hour enduro + Qualifying on the same set of RA-1's and I know guys have run the 13-hours on a set of RA-1's, but I am not sure that this is possible on the new R888's.

Time will tell!

Danny and others...

My interpretation, as advisory member, and our intent was to allow people to use up their current stock of RA-1's. Period. This will effect the majority of the field.

There will be a small subset ( I mean SMALL) of people that may buy both tires and use them as they see fit. Fine with me. I think it's ridiculous, but it's fine with me.

I think the greater good is allowing budget guys to use up tires they would otherwise have to throw away.

The problem here is the interpretation. When we discussed this, my understanding, with all due respect to Mr. Creighton, was that ALL regionals would have the grace period, including Sarrc races, considering that's about all the regional racing we have around here.

I don't know if anyone KNOWS if there is a performance advantage between the two tires. Anecdotal evidence suggests the 8's are softer and a little faster (again, depending on the track) while the RA-1 wears better.

In the end, as I said, the greater good is to allow people to use up old tires and that's what I thought I was recommending.

Jason

--------------------
Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Mediocrity rules!

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quote:
Originally posted by TaxMan:
I certainly don't want to speak out of turn, but since my name is attached to the rule cited above I guess I will toss my two cents into the ring.

The last conversation Jason and I had regarding the tire rule was PRIOR to the clarification in FastTrack that there would be a grace period for RA-1 use. Our last conversation was focused on establishing a period for SEDIV racing that would allow use of the old RA-1s. When the FastTrack was issued, we dropped the conversation as it appeared moot.

It was my understanding that at the SEDIV annual convention, the rule would be discussed and the national exception applied to the SEDIV rule. That obviously did not happen. As I wasn't there, I cannot say why. Perhaps Jason has more insight on that.

That being said, the rules are now what the rules are. In order for SARRC and ECR rules to match the GCR(FastTrack) rule there will have to be a SEDIV or SARRC/ECR rule change. As of today I still don't understand the how/why/way rules are passed for SEDIV use, but it would seem appropriate to encourage the SARRC/ECR committees to meet via conference call and see if a temporary rule change can be passed.

As the supps for all SARRC/ECR races include those rules by reference, then changing those rules would by inclusion in the supps, make the use of RA-1s legal per the FastTrack rule.

I know that no rule will make all happy, but I am certain that a burn up period for RA-1s meets the needs of the majority of SM racers in the SEDIV and not allowing it for SARRC/ECR races is a mistake.

I think that Gary and I are of the same mind. I have no idea how the rule was not applied as mentioned above, I wasn't at the meeting either. I just assumed that regionals meant all regionals and that's what we had discussed.

I think that the series rules should be amended to match the rest of regionals. It is unfortunate that some people would be affected adversely by this, but they would be the minority I would suspect.

Jason

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Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

Butch Kummer
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This definitely falls into the "no good deed goes unpunished" category...

As Chairman of the SEDIV Planning Committee, I agree our INTENT was to do as Jason and Gary suggested above - allow guys that already had old RA-1s to "burn them up" during the first part of the year. I also thought the FastTrack amendment covered that, but Jim's reading of the SEDIV rules is indeed correct. FastTrack applies to regional SM rules, but the SEDIV rules require that we apply the tire rules for the NATIONAL SM cars. Definitely my f*ck-up, and I apologize to all affected.

One solution is for all SEDIV racing regions to exlicitly allow both tires in the Supps for the SARRC/ECR races that they will conduct prior to 7/01/09. If the Supps have already been posted, however, that gets more complicated.

The SEDIV Regional Class rules are approved by the REs (not the SARRC Committee), but I will get with Jim to see what other options might be available.

As far as the guys buying new RA-1s instead of migrating to the R-888s, yet another example of people spending what it takes to win in the short term even though it will hurt them when they eventually have no option and the competition has a six-month head start.

And exactly what IS the lap time difference between the two at Road Atlanta?

Butch Kummer

--------------------
Atlanta Region Asst. RE, Competition Director

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Mediocrity rules!

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Butch,

Thanks for looking into this...

As for laptimes, I'm not sure there's enough data but I doubt there is much difference at all based on what I've seen. I think the 8's gains in corners and gives up in the straights compared to the Ra-1 but that's not a scientific analysis. If anything, the 8's might be a tad quicker.

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Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

OPM AUTOSPORTS INC Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Lap times are very close, that is not the problem. The problem is wear rate on the 888 tire and the fact that everyone involved in making the rules and SE div SM racers wanted to use up tires they already had.

--------------------
-Tom Fowler-
OPM Autosports / SMAC MEMBER
http://www.opmautosports.com

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Butch

Thank you Jim, Gary, and Jason for attempting to correct what was a simple oversight.

--------------------
Paul McLester

Mark McCallister Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Just graduated from novice to rookie!!

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Thanks Butch, Jim, Gary, Jason, et al., for looking into this! Much appreciated!

-Mark

Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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Guys
have no problem either way - thanks for all the time and effort you are all putting into our class for us all - much appreciated

--------------------
Danny
http://www.dannysteyn.com
http://www.adeptstudios.com
OPM Autosports | Traqmate | Rossini Racing Engines
2010 June Sprints Champ, 2010 ARRC SMX Champ
2009 SARRC Champ, 2009 SEDiv ECR Champ, 2009 FES Champ
2008 SEDiv ECR Champ

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Happy Birthday Danny!

--------------------
Paul McLester

Jim Creighton
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Please do not contact anyone with SARRC or ECR. We have absolutely nothing to do with the rules for the cars.

Both series state the races will be conducted under the SEDiv Regional race rules and that is where this appears. No SARRC Committee member can do anything about this.

I find it interesting that that there is a clear difference of opinion on which tire is faster/slower. Two drivers clearly state the R-1 is faster but then several others say not.

However, here is what I have done to try to "fix" the problem for those of you who are truly trying to use up your supply of old tires and not buying new tires to gain an advantage by still buying the R-1's. I have asked the SEDiv Executive Steward if it will be allowed for all drivers wanting to run the R-1's to sign a points waiver and run the SARRC races. That way, you would not be forced to buy the R-888's but would also not be getting points. You will get credit for an entry and still be allowed to run the SIC.

The ECR Committee will have to discuss it since there seems to be no doubt that the R-1 has an advantage in that it lasts longer. I'm on that Committee and will send an email to the others and the Administrator.

Again, I don't want to be the bad guy here. As the Administrator of the SARRC series, I have to do everything I can to make certain you all play by the same rules. As many of you know, I have also volunteered to be on the SM tech compliance team and spend a great deal of my non SARRC time dealing with SM. You guys are a fun group of guys and I enjoy be "allowed" to be a small part of your community.

Maybe some day you'll even wish me a happy birthday----November 22nd.

BTW, the SEDiv Regional race rules are set in July for the next year and reviewed in January.

--------------------
Jim Creighton
SARRC Administrator

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Happy "belated" Birthday Jim!

--------------------
Paul McLester

Terry Whitlock Verified Driver
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As an aside to this issue, the discussion is indicating that the SCCA selected a Spec Tire with the following characteristics:
-higher cost
-slower
-faster wearing
I hope someone from the SCCA staff is monitoring this discussion as it clearly appears that a decision was made that is not in the best interest of the competitors. Something is wrong with the process.

--------------------
Terry Whitlock

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Happy (late) Birthday Jim! How many does this make? 39, 40, ?? [Wink] [Big Grin]

--------------------
everything was fine after they got the fire put out.

E-Speed Motorsports
Race Engineering

Derek Luney Verified Driver
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I know we should keep most of these worms in the can but...

I just read the CCPS rules and their approach might be of benefit to addressing Danny's concern.

They allow the use of RA-1's, but only those with a build date before 12/08. That would keep out new tires and still allow the budget minded to use their old ones.

I'd like to see that enacted without an expiration date. Let me run my 3 year old RA-1's next year if I haven't worn them out yet.

And Jim, we celebrate your birthday at our house with a large feast and all the family around every year, though we don't always get the date exactly right.

Derek

misterwaterfallin
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quote:
Originally posted by Terry Whitlock:
As an aside to this issue, the discussion is indicating that the SCCA selected a Spec Tire with the following characteristics:
-higher cost
-slower
-faster wearing
I hope someone from the SCCA staff is monitoring this discussion as it clearly appears that a decision was made that is not in the best interest of the competitors. Something is wrong with the process.

that discussion has been beaten to death. search if you want to read up on the discussions on how the tire was chosen

--------------------
-Mathew Waterfall
Number 07 SM
Red/black/mud

Terry Whitlock Verified Driver
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Mr. Waterfall,
Previous discussions were based on speculation. After several races here in the Southeast we are seeing the actual results that confirm that speculation. I'm well aware of the previous conjecture and discussion. Sorry you found the comment to be unworthy of your reading and time.

--------------------
Terry Whitlock

Chris Fulton
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I'm not a very experienced racer and have had only 4 heat cycles on my set of R888's (3 20 minute sessions and one race, Sebring National), and they went away so quickly during the race that I thought I had a flat tire.

Has anyone notified Toyo about the wear issues? Maybe they could change the compound?

Mark McCallister Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Just graduated from novice to rookie!!

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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Fulton:
I'm not a very experienced racer and have had only 4 heat cycles on my set of R888's (3 20 minute sessions and one race, Sebring National), and they went away so quickly during the race that I thought I had a flat tire.

Hi Chris, what shave depth did you start with?

Thanks,
-Mark

Chris Fulton
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I know I should know this, but I just called appalachian and ordered for p/up at the track (either 4/32 or 3/32). I was really depressed thinking about tires for 09 after the whole Sebring race weekend. George Munson just convinced me to drive the RA1's to the cord and I just don't think you could do the same with the 888's.

 
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