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Author Topic: Double/Double at Roebling Road
Alex Bolanos Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:


Also, congrats to Roger Burdette, He is getting used to Sm racing and managed a forth and closer to the front than he has been.
Jim

Roger did great, he's definitely picking up this miata thing pretty quick!

Fun weekend as always at Roebling, what a fun track. Thanks to Cliffy for letting me pilot both of his down on power cars [Cool] Shout out to Alex Gaines, finally put a face to the name, great guy and great driver... I tried everything to hold him off in the second SARRC and he got me on the second to last lap! Those two laps going side by side through turn 9 were definitely an ass puckering experience [Wink]

Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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Congrats to all - miss running the SARRC's and ECR's - always a good time.

Didnt Geroge just build a new car? Please tell me its not his new car that is wadded up?

Anyone spoken to George since his accident? If so please let us know.

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Danny
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http://www.adeptstudios.com
OPM Autosports | Traqmate | Rossini Racing Engines
2010 June Sprints Champ, 2010 ARRC SMX Champ
2009 SARRC Champ, 2009 SEDiv ECR Champ, 2009 FES Champ
2008 SEDiv ECR Champ

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

Region: CFR
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I believe it was his older 1.6. He is building a 99 but I do not think it is ready yet.

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2010 ARRC Champion
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2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I spoke to George yesterday morning. His ribs are sore, but he is okay. The front suspension is damaged, radiator destroyed and maybe more. He hasn't looked at the car since he got back. It was his 1.6 and not the new car. He told me that Andrew Anderson was the other car. George spun in the early laps when he got into the marbles and fell back to 21st. He then started moving back through the field and eventually got behind Anderson. Andrew basically blocked and chopped George in the corners until they got back on the straight. George feinted to the right, Andrew bit, so George went left. Andrew then moved left to block George and hit George's car in the front wheel with his rear wheel. George was 4 wheels off at about a 100mph heading for the timing and scoring tower. He turned a little to the right and hit the armco and tires. George filed a protest and it was upheld....not sure what penalty was given to Andrew.

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Paul McLester

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

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Many on this board have raced with George over the years and can attest to his driving ability. You won't find a cleaner racer in all of SM but I don't know anything about Anderson. Too bad!!

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2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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Jamie +100 on George - not many nicer guys in the sport of club racing than George. Always with a smile and a real interest in making sure everyone is having a good time. Just such a likeable guy and a real clean driver.

Dont know too much about Andrew. Met him a few times. Seems like a good approachable guy. I know he was caught up in the CMP start accident that caused so much consternation in the SE, but apart from him falling back before the start it didnt seem to be an intentional block. I think he received probation because of the CMP start incident.

However, despite being a friend of George's I wouldn't be too quick to judge Andrew until we have heard from George.

George also runs video so that should help clear up any doubts. On the other hand if he had to hand in the video to the Stewards for the protest, it might be some time before he can post it.

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Danny
http://www.dannysteyn.com
http://www.adeptstudios.com
OPM Autosports | Traqmate | Rossini Racing Engines
2010 June Sprints Champ, 2010 ARRC SMX Champ
2009 SARRC Champ, 2009 SEDiv ECR Champ, 2009 FES Champ
2008 SEDiv ECR Champ

Jim Creighton
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This was one of the best race weekends I remember in a long time. Thanks to all of you who came and supported the Division with our first ever Regional series race weekend.

SM definitely provided the best races of the event. Normally, the workers are bored by ECR's. However, during the Saturday ECR, I kept hearing " the race is over an hour old and there's only .2 seconds difference in the SM leaders." What a great show!

I hope all of you had a great time. I can tell you that we are already planning next years races. In 2011, July 4th is on Monday so the races will be scheduled for Saturday, Sunday & Monday, July 4th. As we did this year, the ECR's will be on the first 2 days and the final day will be a shorter day. And SM will again be group 2.

I hope everyone will start making plans to join us for the other Division event on October 9th & 10th, the SIC and ECR finale. Both of those races are double points and will be the final races for 2010 points. The ECR will be at the end of the day on Saturday. For the SIC races, SM will be group 2 and will race Sunday AM. That way, everyone can be on the road home by noon.

Again, thanks for helping make our July 4th races a big success.

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Jim Creighton
SARRC Administrator

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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George still has a copy of the video and will post it when he figures out how to edit the video for posting....which as he told me will show the whole mess. George was under the impression that Andrew was still on probation from CMP, but wasn't sure if he was given a suspension this weekend. George did give a copy of the video to the stewards and some of the stewards had seen the earlier blocks. Those of you who know George will understand that he is upset that he got wrecked on the straight, but he didn't trash Andrew in the explanation....just didn't understand why Andrew would move to the right, then try to block left and then tell the stewards "he didn't see George's car."

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Paul McLester

Matthew Van Vurst
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What a weekend in Savannah!Had a blast running with some very talanted Spec Miata drivers.Burdette is a class act for sure!door to door for 1 1/2 hours and not a scratch on either car.I also found out who wasn't a class act this weekend!funny how that works when you start running upfront.George, I hope your ok and if we can help just let us know.Oh yeah my brother showed up Saturday night to knock me off pole for the Sunday SAARC but it was pretty cool with a all VanVurst front row for the Sunday SARRC.Hope to see everyone at the SIC I can not wait. [Big Grin]

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Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Van Vurst:
Oh yeah my brother showed up Saturday night to knock me off pole for the Sunday SAARC but it was pretty cool with a all VanVurst front row for the Sunday SARRC. [Big Grin]

Ahhhhh $#%^&* I missed my two for one opportunity at turn 1 [Big Grin] [duck]

Glad your weekend went well and picking up speed at each event.
Jim

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Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

Nsparks Verified Driver
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Hey guys. That was a great weekend! I was on the fence about coming and now I'm very happy I did. Two clean starts always makes a weekend better! This was my first weekend at Roebling. I felt pretty under the gun only running the SARRC. First time on track and it's qualifying! Saturdays race was spent battling with George the whole way. Sorry to hear about his incident. I look forward to racing with you guys more in the future.

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2009 TMC East coast Champion.
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Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Gatoratty:
George still has a copy of the video and will post it when he figures out how to edit the video for posting....which as he told me will show the whole mess. George was under the impression that Andrew was still on probation from CMP, but wasn't sure if he was given a suspension this weekend. George did give a copy of the video to the stewards and some of the stewards had seen the earlier blocks. Those of you who know George will understand that he is upset that he got wrecked on the straight, but he didn't trash Andrew in the explanation....just didn't understand why Andrew would move to the right, then try to block left and then tell the stewards "he didn't see George's car."

/RANTON

If SCCA Stewards saw the blocking going on and didn't throw a black flag on the offending driver, they are partly responsible for the wreck. It is their JOB to police the sport and that does NOT mean sitting around waiting for protest forms to show up.

/RANTOFF

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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They, certainly, should have shown him a furled black flag, with his number displayed. I don't go along with putting the black flag out for something that might be a judgement call not based on what is really happening. Black flags can't be taken back. The race is over at that point for the flagee.
wheel

Alex Gaines Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex Bolanos:
quote:
Originally posted by Drago:


Also, congrats to Roger Burdette, He is getting used to Sm racing and managed a forth and closer to the front than he has been.
Jim

Roger did great, he's definitely picking up this miata thing pretty quick!

Fun weekend as always at Roebling, what a fun track. Thanks to Cliffy for letting me pilot both of his down on power cars [Cool] Shout out to Alex Gaines, finally put a face to the name, great guy and great driver... I tried everything to hold him off in the second SARRC and he got me on the second to last lap! Those two laps going side by side through turn 9 were definitely an ass puckering experience [Wink]

Nice to put a face with a name as well. I had a great time doing battle all weekend with the Florida crew. The racing was always clean. One of the best weekends this year by far. Burdette is looking good and I think he will win a race very soon. Sorry to hear about George.

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2010 SARRC Champion
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Dan Tiley Verified Driver Series Champ
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Congrats to Alex B and Alex G on winning the two SARRCs and to Matt for his win in the ECR! Looks like it's going to be quite a guns-a-blazin' shootout at the SIC this year.

--------------------
Dan Tiley

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Bob Thornton - Race Engineering Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber. - Sir Winston Churchill

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Congrats guys sounds like the racing was great.
Sorry I had to miss this one.

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Bob Thornton
http://www.raceengineering.org
Race Engineering Championship Winning Engines

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

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quote:
Originally posted by wheel:
They, certainly, should have shown him a furled black flag, with his number displayed. I don't go along with putting the black flag out for something that might be a judgement call not based on what is really happening. Black flags can't be taken back. The race is over at that point for the flagee.
wheel

I agree. IF the corner workers and a steward or two stewards feel it is blocking and dangerous, then you haul him in. Yes, a black flag ends the race for the offender, but George's race was ended by him too... assuming the facts agree with the internet rumors.

The other way to handle someone who blocks is just to take 'em out. A light tap at the right moment and they are gone.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Craig Heyl
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I second Jim C's comment on this being a great weekend.

The best July weather I can ever remember and excellent racing.

Good clean racing all day Friday and Saturday by the SMs. Although I wasn't around for Sunday.......

I'll definitely be back for the 2011 July 4th weekend if it's a DBL/DBL again. That's a lot of track time in two days......

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Craig Heyl
Decatur Speed Shop
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Gary Giles Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Fun weekend at Roebling. The weather was very kind to us and it was great meeting some new folks. I agree with Craig. This will be on my calendar for 2011.

Big thanks to the OPM team for keeping me on the track this weekend. I had a few things break during in the enduros. Of course, OPM got me fixed up every time and I never missed a session. Bob, Tim, Fernando and Pete absolutely kick butt. Lette, the Jello shots were a big hit.

Congrats to Gaines, Bolanos and Matthew on their wins. Burdette had a great weekend as well. It was fun watching the Burdette-Matthew battle all weekend. They both kept getting faster and put on a great show.

Sorry to see George wrecked at the end of the race on Sunday. Glad that you were okay and hope to see you at the track again soon.

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“Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.” ~~ Mark Twain

George Munson Verified Driver
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I just wanted to "Thank Everyone" for the kind words and well wishes.

Congrats to Alex Gaines, Alex Bolanos, and Matthew Van Vurst on your impressive wins.

I really enjoyed seeing everybody and I hope to do it again real soon.

And now for your viewing pleasure go to... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RQ6Y4BzULA

Thanks to all,
George Munson

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

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I watched that video about 100 times in slow motion and cannot understand why the other driver jinks over right before you are run off. I would love for him to explain what he thought or why he did that. Quick indecisive moves like that do not give other drivers time to react. You very lucky that you did not get hurt! On a side note if you want me to sign you pilots logbook I will. That should be good for at least a couple landings.

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2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Swede
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A b.s move for sure.
A stern interrogation as to why the move was made as well as who the f#@C is paying for the damage hopefully occured at some point.
I hope this driver at least checked on Georges well being and was fully apologetic.
If not, then If it was me in Georges shoes, well let's just say I would be racing with NASA until I get my licence back.
A little extreme for some I'm sure, however with a near tragic wreck , a large loss financially combined with alot of adrenaline, I better hear nothing but apologies when I approach the other driver.
Shame on him if he didn't make this right with George.
This is only my 2nd or 3rd post and I am already a keyboard toughguy.... Flame on, just don't try to run me off the track.

Chris Fulton
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I was right behind George and it sure looked alot worse than the video.....As far as I know the other driver never came over to check on George or even sent anyone to check on George. I am glad you are OK bro!

jbenoit28 Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Glad you are alright George. That is a great reason to run video as well! I'm sorry to hear the other driver didn't check on you.

In an effort to learn something from a bad situation, can you tell us how your safety gear and cage performed? Any issues or things you'd have changed? Looked like a hell of a whack on the drivers side of the car.

Joe

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Lance Snyder Made Donation to Website
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Wow George, glad you are alright.. that was insane. I hope the other driver got some sit down time especially if he was on probation already.

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All this has happened before, and will happen again

joe v
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Looks like all the SOM's did was add 4 more races to his probation.

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Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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WOW George - glad serious injury did not occur.

To Andrew. If you did not go to check on George after a shunt that you were involved in (your fault or not) then SHAME ON YOU.

Today I totalled Mike Collins' car (I was the 2nd guy to hit it). Not my fault. But first thing I did was check with the paramedics that he was OK, and as soon as I got to medical center, I went and checked how he was. (OK and full of smiles as usual).

It is unthinkable that you would have contact that results in a serious accident like that and not check on the other drivers condition, and show no concern.

Andrew I have no beef with you personally, and I have had nothing but pleasant exchanges with you in the past, and I was reluctant to wade in when this thread started, but seriously, if you care so little as to check on the other drivers condition, maybe you need to be doing something different with your spare time.

just my $0.02 - Flame suit on.

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Danny
http://www.dannysteyn.com
http://www.adeptstudios.com
OPM Autosports | Traqmate | Rossini Racing Engines
2010 June Sprints Champ, 2010 ARRC SMX Champ
2009 SARRC Champ, 2009 SEDiv ECR Champ, 2009 FES Champ
2008 SEDiv ECR Champ

racerfink Verified Driver
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Might be time for somebody to have a talk with that guy, and tell him auto racing may not be the sport for him.

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'90 Spec Miata
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Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Glad to hear that you and Mike are okay! So much for Mike's new wrap!

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Paul McLester

Alex Bolanos Verified Driver Series Champ
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Wow, that was a bonehead move... I never realized how close that tirewall is, are you ok George?

Colin MacLean Verified Driver
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That was an indefensible move and could have had much more serious consequences. If the SCCA does not hand out an expulsion or a suspension in the very least there is something seriously, seriously wrong.

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Colin MacLean
Flyin' MacLean Motorsports

Cliffy Chains
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Suspensions and expulsions are left up and determined by the SOM's,..... I think the bigger picture here is it is Club racing,
and the guy did not even check on George to see how he was after a huge accident like that.

I think he should take up speed shopping with the wife, where damage is limited to clean up on isle 4 and not an ambulance ride for a friend... [fight]

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BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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I just want to clarify my post. I am not lambasting Andrew for the move. Its possible he didnt see him or thought he was on the other side, who knows. We all make bonehead moves. We all will still make bonehead moves.

But, not checking up on a driver to see how he is after you were involved in putting him into a tire wall is inexcusable conduct.

--------------------
Danny
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OPM Autosports | Traqmate | Rossini Racing Engines
2010 June Sprints Champ, 2010 ARRC SMX Champ
2009 SARRC Champ, 2009 SEDiv ECR Champ, 2009 FES Champ
2008 SEDiv ECR Champ

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I think that this is not uncommon. The last two times that I was wrecked which required my car to come back on a flatbed....the person who hit me didn't bother to come by and check on me or the car. The lack of a suspension reflects the stewards and race officials attitude toward our class and the fact that they believe we do this to each other all of the time.

This is a quote from an email discussing adding ITO (V8) cars to the ECR series to run with SM cars
quote:
"SM drivers often drive viciously -- chopping down in corners, turning in before clearing other cars, taking away lines, and making hard contact based on poor judgement. I think your concern needs to be re-directed to protect the non-SM drivers."
The response from an SEDIV SARRC Official
quote:
"And you are probably correct about everyone else needing protection from the SM drivers. Some seem to get a bad case of the "red mist" when they put on a helmet! "

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Paul McLester

Dwayne Hoover Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RQ6Y4BzULA


I don't know anyone involved and I am certainly glad everyone is OK, but ... I've been the following car as shown at 1:25 about 100 times or more, and think I've backed out every time.

Sometimes we focus too much on who is at fault, and not enough on what EACH of us that was "involved" could have done to prevent the totaled car (or injured or dead competitor).

This is not meant to sound preachy or to be interpreted as "taking sides" - but I see *avoidable* incidents total cars almost every weekend, and I don't ever want to be one of them.

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Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Colin MacLean:
That was an indefensible move and could have had much more serious consequences. If the SCCA does not hand out an expulsion or a suspension in the very least there is something seriously, seriously wrong.

I agree 100%, he moved to the right to block, George then went left and he ran him into the wall with little to no time to react. If this doesn't warrant a six month suspension, not sure what does.

If I was king for the day.. It would be 6 month suspension or 6 months probation and you pay for the damage.

Jim

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Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny Steyn:
Its possible he didnt see him or thought he was on the other side, who knows. We all make bonehead moves. We all will still make bonehead moves.


Danny
We do all make bone head moves... But this one was intentional. I dont think for a minute he envisioned the consequences of his actions. But he certainly moved left to block as it was after hemoved right [Wink]

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Fender:
[QUOTE]

Sometimes we focus too much on who is at fault, and not enough on what EACH of us that was "involved" could have done to prevent the totaled car (or injured or dead competitor).

This is not meant to sound preachy or to be interpreted as "taking sides" - but I see *avoidable* incidents total cars almost every weekend, and I don't ever want to be one of them.

usually agree with mr Fender but not this time;
there was nothing mr Munson could have done at that precise spot and moment, other than hooking the car up front and putting them both into the tirewall (or the concrete wall on the inside).
Flat, at the top of 4th, already committed to pass with room on the outside, no where else to go but four off or into the blocking car.
With the 4-5 MPH run he had, lifting would not have saved him or the other guy.
Thank goodness mr Munson is ok, he actually drove it in at the perfect angle to deflect and lift off rather than a solid straight impact ...
that instinctive driving reflex action is what saved him from serious injury.
[thumbsup]

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quote:
Originally posted by guest driver:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Fender:
[QUOTE]

Sometimes we focus too much on who is at fault, and not enough on what EACH of us that was "involved" could have done to prevent the totaled car (or injured or dead competitor).

This is not meant to sound preachy or to be interpreted as "taking sides" - but I see *avoidable* incidents total cars almost every weekend, and I don't ever want to be one of them.

usually agree with mr Fender but not this time;
there was nothing mr Munson could have done at that precise spot and moment, other than hooking the car up front and putting them both into the tirewall (or the concrete wall on the inside).
Flat, at the top of 4th, already committed to pass with room on the outside, no where else to go but four off or into the blocking car.
With the 4-5 MPH run he had, lifting would not have saved him or the other guy.
Thank goodness mr Munson is ok, he actually drove it in at the perfect angle to deflect and lift off rather than a solid straight impact ...
that instinctive driving reflex action is what saved him from serious injury.
[thumbsup]

I'm not trying to argue, but respect your opinion and I'm intrigued by your by viewpoint in this case, so I want you to give you a chance to change my opinion.

I note that your response is qualified by "at that precise moment and spot".

At what time in the video is the "block" apparent?
At what time do you think contact is made?
How much time do you think is reasonable to expect a driver to be able to lift or brake safely to arrest your estimated 3-4 mph run?
Was there ever a safe car-width to the left of the lead car? (As early as 1:21, I'd say "No").

Although there appears to be a screwy swerve to the right and back at 1:24 by the lead car (a warning sign in and of itself?), it isn't clear to me the first move to the right was a "block" because the following car was nowhere near the right side of the car. The following car's steering wheel turns left at about the same time, and I think this is making at least a partial optical illusion that the lead car "swerved" to the right.

Meanwhile, the hole to the left never looked very inviting to me, from at least as early as 1:22.

At 1:26 it looks to me like the cars are already touching, and this is when it appears the lead car "turns in". Or is he losing control because of the contact?

In short, it looks to me like at least 2 seconds of "Danger Will Robinson!", where the hole was never a full car-width wide in the first place.

Again, I'm not trying to blame anyone ... but I wonder if the lead car's driver said anything to the effect of "I was on my normal line and he hit me!!!", at which point all his friends and family agreed.

If he said something like that, he should realize that he could have maintained a stable tight line all the way left. And on the other hand, I feel like if I were the following car I could have seen this coming at 1:22 (and taken to the right) tor started checking up at 1:24.

I apologize to Mr. Munson for my wandering into this thread and trying to make a case study/public service announcement out of it. I'm truly trying to understand what the video shows and the viewpoint of others. Just glad everyone but a 1.6 Miata came out OK.

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Double-post ... I fondly remember when we could delete our own posts ...

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Mr. Fender, with all due respect, you must be watching some other video.

The lead driver is clearly trying to block. He initially sets himself up in the middle of the track. Then when the overtaking car feigns right, the lead car turns right to block. The following car then make his move to the left. At 1:24 and 1:25 you can clearly see enough track to the outside to make the pass. Then, when the jerk in front sees George's move to the left, he turns back to the left. Look at 1:27 -- the jerk is running George off the track!!

You speculate that the lead driver didn't see him -- well it appears to me that the lead driver was watching his mirrors from the moment he exited turn 9. He thinks you race by blocking and running other drivers into the dirt.

You suggest that maybe George should have backed off. Well, I disagree. He had a right to try to make a legitimate pass. That's racing!! If the lead driver had maintained his position after going right as he is required to do, then they would have had a drag race to the finish line, and both drivers and their cars would race another day.

I have a right to expect other drivers to obey the rules of racing and not to make stupid moves. If I cannot expect that from my fellow racers, if I have to race expecting you to block, run me off the road, and make stupid moves, then it's not worth it. I might as well play Russian roulette with a 45.

If I were in George's position, I probably would have shot the guy because what he did was intentional and put George's life and health at risk, not to mention his pocketbook. We should not tolerate this crap anymore in SM. I'm personally sick of it. The constant mayhem out there has diminished my willingness to race. I know it's just a matter of time before I'm the one wrecked by someone else's lack of respect for other drivers.

If the SCCA won't properly discipline drivers like this, then maybe the rest of us should refuse to race in the next race the fella shows up for. A boycott to make a point.

Just my 2 cents.

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Mark;
been around long enough to realise people look at video and see things that are not there or see things only through their own experiences, no need to try and change your mind ...
that was a blatant 'double' block through my eyes. If you have raced RR, you would understand.
BTW; there was never any contact between the two, there was room on the outside, view again at race speed without slo mo, no one could have seen that bonehead move coming and ...
"I was on my normal line and he hit me", unfortunately is the typical clueless refrain that is used all too much out there.
I fondly remember when Fred Schmucker used to be Chief Steward at RR and Rd Atl (may he RIP) ...
stuff like this would only happen once on his watch.

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I agree with Collin's comment regarding expulsion or at least long-term suspension.

This sort of driving is just plain stupid, and I don't care to be on-track with people like this.

Don't wait for the SOM's to take car of this problem. The SM community could do a lot for its own reputation by handling situations like this directly.

--------------------
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quote:
Originally posted by Leadfoot:
Mr. Fender, with all due respect, you must be watching some other video.

Well, I disagree. He had a right to try to make a legitimate pass. That's racing!! Just my 2 cents.

I happen to disagree with "Mr Fender" a little as well. But I think what you are missing the point in Mr Fenders post... While he may have the "right" that doesn't mean that he should... Live to fight another day and don't risk life and car for one position I think is what he is saying. I think that is coming from a guy that wins nearly every race he enters and has gotten one scuff on his right fender in like 4 years? He may have a point [Smile]

And when things happen in his view that could be avoided, aren't, regardless of fault.. You get the other one of my favorite quotes in your post "thats racing" That phrase goes both ways.

I agree that the lead driver was at fault 100% and would have found myself likely in the same spot as George. Knowing the drivers around helps, there are some drivers I would not make that move on...even with more room than was given. [Wink]

--------------------
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quote:
Originally posted by Leadfoot:
If I were in George's position, I probably would have shot the guy because what he did was intentional and put George's life and health at risk, not to mention his pocketbook.

This thread has now highlighted TWO people I'd prefer not to race with.

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I have kept my comments to myself and had hoped that Andrew would connect me and he has yesterday through Facebook.

I'd would like to clear up a few things that the video doesn't show.

First there was plenty of room for the pass, the lead car moved to the center of the track. He took my slight fade to the inside because I clearly setup the inside hugging the apex. Anyone who has raced Roebling Road knows the preferred line through Turn 9 is to track out and run pretty much the outside all the way to Turn 1.

Second there was hard contact that isn't really shown in the video when he came over into me. Pictures were taken by the SOM of the tire donut of rubber from his left rear tire hitting my right front tire and on that side in front of the wheel. Without the contact I might have just dropped two wheels off as a lot of drivers have done trying not to lift through 9.

The purpose of my comments is not to inflame the situation but hopefully we all can learn from this. For my part I shouldn't have even been back there as I started P8. I tried to go two wide with Gary Giles on the outside through turns 1 and 2. A note to self, outside line through Turn 2 on cold tires is not a good idea. Gary, "Great Pass", it was fun as always. I made the comment in the SOM Meeting that maybe I shouldn't have tried the pass, one of the SOM members looks me square in the eye and said "Hogwash, we are racers and its our job to pass the cars in front of you until the checked flag drops". One of them was watching and said I had great run and the room to do it. I don't believe Andrew wanted to hurt me or my car and probably just got caught up in the moment.

I do however want to address, "Mirror Driving". There quite a few drivers that spend more time worrying about how to defend their position than they do focusing on their own lines. I learned at an early stage how much you can learn from the faster drivers on the track and if your are respectful out on the track most will be more than willing to help you off it. While I don't claim to be perfect while racing I try real hard to be respectful and when I muck up, I own it.

In closing I need to apologize to all of the track officials that had to listen to my foul mouth as they were helping me out of my car. I was a bit tweaked but there is no excuse. Jim Creighton your people put on a great show and I'm sorry for the tower scare. I need to thank the SOM for taking the time to listen to witnesses both on and off the track, looking at the cars, and spending time with the video.

I hope in the end we are all better for this.

Now I have a car to fix,

George Munson

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George,

Again I'm glad you are ok and I've learned a lot just from reading this thread. I really hope Andrew used Facebook to ask you for a phone number. Guess I'm old school.

Joe

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quote:
If the SCCA won't properly discipline drivers like this, then maybe the rest of us should refuse to race in the next race the fella shows up for. A boycott to make a point.

I was at a NASA event a couple years ago where two cars were playing 90 mph grab-ass which caused a 'big one' that ended the race after only two laps. The lead jackass still races in NASA. Where you gonna race once all sanctioning bodies piss you off?

It's easy to armchair quarterback but I kinda agree with Bobby Fender. Clearly a block but was it worth it to push the issue.

At the VIR SARRC/MARRS driver's meeting we were told that death threats are not acceptable. I thought "has this been a problem?"

-Denny

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Just watched the video and all I can say is that was the hardest (and most frightening) lick I've ever seen in SM. (and that comes from a guy who was punted into a cement barrier hard enough to move it!).

Whether or not it was blatant blocking has already been adequately discussed, but my one thought is that the flagstand tire wall at RR seems to be at too acute an angle to the track.

If a car hit it coming across the track from drivers right to left (as hard an Mr Munson hit it going straight), it could be very ugly.
Rick

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I'm not sure that Mr. Munson 'pushed the issue'. For some time, he had run up on the car in front of him and been blocked. The last time, he had a really good run on him and was closing fast.

It's possible that Mr. Munson, like me, could have thought that the driver had finally decided to move to the right and let him by (since he was so much faster). He might have been surprised by the sudden move to the left. Those who suggest that both parties share blame should themselves be ashamed. Mr. Munson had every reason to expect the driver ahead to behave.

I can't help but wonder what the stewards were thinking....

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