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Author Topic: SM2
Hotshoe
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quote:
Originally posted by CP:
This year the New England region introduced "double dipping" entries where the second race group entered is half price. Those of us with 99s have been jumping between ITS and STU depending on the schedule while the 90-97 cars can choose between SSM and ITA.
The race organizers need to be on board with the concept and doctor the schedule so that drivers have time between run groups to make the necessary changes to the cars.

I have been trying for two years to get the SM group separated by at least one run group so they can run IT. No luck...... Instead, they would rather run them back to back or combine them....go figure.

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

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It seems that an overwhelming number of SM racers do not want the class separated so what was the driving force behind the move? There was a quick mention by Butch about it on another thread and than Bill Vanderford? I am sure Butch is just trying to give the drivers what they want so I certainly don't fault him but I think people such as Bill are misinformed as to what we all want. Who else wants this? I know everybody wants parity between years but I have never heard drivers say they want parity based on car prep. I know over the past year or so there have been a couple of people that have suggested a split class but thats about it. At least drivers running SM2 will not be getting SARRC points so hopefully that will discourage most of the SM drivers from trying to get an easy trophy. Of course somebody is going to get the track record; so they got that going for them! On a side note I can only imagine the problems that we are going to see when equal cars that are racing for positions in their specific classes come together. Most drivers already do not like it when a driver of another class gets in the mix between drivers of the same class that are fighting it out and thats exactly what we are going to have all day long.

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Mark McCallister Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Capt. John:
There is a SARRC race at PBIR this weekend and Fl. Region does not recognize "splinter" groups of Spec Miatas. One class, SM, that's it. If your Miata is prepared to Spec Miata specifications as per GCR and SEDIV guidelines, that is where you shall race. As of 10;00 AM this morning a grand total of FIVE SM's have registered for this SARRC race. To my knowledge there is nothing else scheduled in SEDIV this weekend. I do not see any SSB, SSC or T3 cars registered in your group. SM is the only class recognized, SARRC points are on the line, at this point you have your own run group and only FIVE SM drivers are interested.
What did we do wrong?? What could we do differently?

For me, I'm going from double ECR (Homestead, was great!) to double ECR (Roebling). Even if I was inclined to do a non-ECR weekend, not enough weeks in between. Tow money was all spent on the 370 mile tow to Homestead... [Smile] A splinter class would be of zero enticement to me. If I wanted a trophy for its own sake that bad I'd go back to autocrossing... [Smile]

Bill Vanderford Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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Boy did I stir up a bunch of bees...!!! But, all of you 99 boys might be wrong...I've already heard from at least a dozen 90-97 drivers who had quit racing that said they would show up at some of the scheduled races for SM2...Terry Whitlock's first comment is right on...!!!! He has an understanding of the big picture that many only see in a very narrow view...As Butch Kummer said when we started talking about this, "If the overall numbers don't increase, then it will be a failed experiment." You guys sound like the Californians that are boycotting Arizona for a law that doesn't effect their state...Time will tell if it works or not...So, back off and give it a chance...!!!

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2004 NASA SE Spec Miata Champion

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

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Bill, how this is anything like Arizona immigration law I have no idea; this effects all Spec Miata drivers. You said you have talked to a dozen drivers who stopped racing because they could not compete with the 99s? Or at least are going to show up to a few events; maybe. Are you serious or just making that up? Do you really think that the people that parked their cars (if there are any out there) and gave up because they couldn't finish in the front are now coming back to race solely because the Atlanta region has decided that they will run SM2? Give me a break! Those drivers will still be in the back, just not as far since there are less cars. If they do not want to compete with Spec Miatas then they should run IT. Say what you want about your so called 12 drivers because there are a few hundred (not all 99s either) that are dead set against it. If the Atlanta region wants to maintain the Spec Miata car counts that they have they may want to rethink this through. Of course thats just my opinion!!
I like many others that have posted about this actually show up for the races and support the Atlanta region driving our 1.6s, 1.8s, and 99s.

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davew Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I see 4 reasons for this experiment and none of them hold water in my opinion.

"90-97 cars are not competitive";
I don't beleave it. A 95 won both Nationals at Blackhawk, won on Saturday at Road America and finsihed second on Sunday. The fastest 10 laps ever in a Spec Miata at Blackhawk are all by 90-97 cars with 5 different drivers. The problem is that the 99 cars have the majority of the best drivers and the best prep, when compared to early cars. If there are 100 top level 1999's in the country, there are only 10 top level 90-97 cars.

"I can't afford a top level car, so I will run against other equally preped cars in SM2";
As the WDC region has shown with their SSM class, top level prep will move into any class. A top level SSM car costs just as much to build or maintain as a top level SM. An ego combined with a fat wallet is the fastest thing around.

"All the lost 1.6 cars will come out and play";
Of the dozen drivers that Bill mentions above, I would expect that 1 or 2 actually show up. It's just human nature to get excited about the idea, but never actually follow through. Plus, a car that has been sitting unused for a year or more, will require a lot of effort and money to get back on the track. Drivers who have been off track, have alocated their time and money to other endevors.

"Most people want to split the class";
WRONG, based on SMAC letters and my personal conversations, the vast majority want the single class with big fields and lots of competition. Many have opinions on how to make the class better, but very few want to split the class. I will say that the WDC SSM model works in that area due to the HUGE fields they have. WIth 50 SM and 50 SSM cars at a typical event, without 2 classes, people would be turned away at registration.

Here in CenDiv, we have SMT. Originally the T stood for Tires, as in open tire rule. Now, the only difference between SM and SMT is the "T". We make no changes, just add the T. SM generally runs with small prod and GT cars (which there are very few at regionals). SMT runs with IT cars. This gives everybody double the track time. 90% of the drivers run both classes.

Just my 2 cents worth
Dave

--------------------
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Connie 62 Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by davew:

"I can't afford a top level car, so I will run against other equally preped cars in SM2";
As the WDC region has shown with their SSM class, top level prep will move into any class. A top level SSM car costs just as much to build or maintain as a top level SM. An ego combined with a fat wallet is the fastest thing around.

Dave

What do you really know about SSM in WDC? True, you can spend as much as you want on a SSM, but you don't have to to win. I know of many cars that run up front that could have been put together for $10K, mine included. We get 40-45 cars per event because we have a level playing field and great competition. Expensive cars don't dominate, good drivers with good setups dominate.

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Jim Thill
#11 SSM
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Willie the Tard Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by davew:
The problem is that the 99 cars have the majority of the best drivers and the best prep, when compared to early cars. If there are 100 top level 1999's in the country, there are only 10 top level 90-97 cars.
Dave

If the cars as so equal why is that (he rhetorically asks)?

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William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

Blake Clements Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Willie the Tard:
quote:
Originally posted by davew:
The problem is that the 99 cars have the majority of the best drivers and the best prep, when compared to early cars. If there are 100 top level 1999's in the country, there are only 10 top level 90-97 cars.
Dave

If the cars as so equal why is that (he rhetorically asks)?
It has to be related to the pop up headlights.... [Razz]

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Blake Clements

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d mathias Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Chicks dig the 99+ headlights.

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Connie 62:
good drivers with good setups dominate. [/QB]

Sounds a lot like SM [Big Grin]

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
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EAST STREET RACING

Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by davew:
An ego combined with a fat wallet is the fastest thing around.

Great comment Dave

If you are a racer and you want to be upfront you already have the EGO.

Its just the WALLET and the TALENT, that exist in varying degrees

--------------------
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Willie the Tard Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Blake Clements:
quote:
Originally posted by Willie the Tard:
quote:
Originally posted by davew:
The problem is that the 99 cars have the majority of the best drivers and the best prep, when compared to early cars. If there are 100 top level 1999's in the country, there are only 10 top level 90-97 cars.
Dave

If the cars as so equal why is that (he rhetorically asks)?
It has to be related to the pop up headlights.... [Razz]
01+ cars have those headlights and a bigger RP but still you all build 99s because they are so equal (again rhetorically stated).

--------------------
William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

Hotshoe
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Vanderford:
Boy did I stir up a bunch of bees...!!! I've already heard from at least a dozen 90-97 drivers who had quit racing that said they would show up at some of the scheduled races for SM2...

I rent to some drivers from England on occasion. And over there they run the 1.6 Miata in a class by itself. And the 1.8 car (unrestricted) in it's own class. And they also run with no top [duck]
Might be interesting to run the 1.8 unrestricted.
.... Just a thought ....Flame On [flamed]

Bill Vanderford Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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Speaking only of the Atlanta Region...and especially Road Atlanta, if the 1.6 cars that all of you guys who are complaining used to drive were as fast as the 99s...then why aren't you racing them anymore...??? And, for you guys from other regions who are winning with 1.6 cars...Look at the results of any SM race here at RA and compare the times of both cars....I'm a part of Pombo Racing, and even Mark and Mathew (who are some of the best drivers in any car...anywhere) can no longer win with a 1.6 at RA...Besides what difference does it make if we're always so far back anyway...??? And, even I haven't registered yet, but the registration of SM and SM2 is about even...and I know two of those who haven't raced in a long time...Does that mean that I'm sure this will work...NO...!!! But, with the dwindling numbers of racers hereat RA, and the bad economy, the SCCA Atlanta Region needs all the participants that they can get...So, instead of bad mouthing...all of you should be encouraging other to come out...We need the numbers...and if it doesn't work...then it will end soon enough...!! Also, if you have a great old 1.6 or 1.8 car that can compete withthe 99s, then bring it and enter SM....Nobody has to enter SM2...!!!!

--------------------
2004 NASA SE Spec Miata Champion

Alex Bolanos Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Vanderford:
Speaking only of the Atlanta Region...and especially Road Atlanta, if the 1.6 cars that all of you guys who are complaining used to drive were as fast as the 99s...then why aren't you racing them anymore...??? And, for you guys from other regions who are winning with 1.6 cars...Look at the results of any SM race here at RA and compare the times of both cars....I'm a part of Pombo Racing, and even Mark and Mathew (who are some of the best drivers in any car...anywhere) can no longer win with a 1.6 at RA...Besides what difference does it make if we're always so far back anyway...??? And, even I haven't registered yet, but the registration of SM and SM2 is about even...and I know two of those who haven't raced in a long time...Does that mean that I'm sure this will work...NO...!!! But, with the dwindling numbers of racers hereat RA, and the bad economy, the SCCA Atlanta Region needs all the participants that they can get...So, instead of bad mouthing...all of you should be encouraging other to come out...We need the numbers...and if it doesn't work...then it will end soon enough...!! Also, if you have a great old 1.6 or 1.8 car that can compete withthe 99s, then bring it and enter SM....Nobody has to enter SM2...!!!!

A 1.6 has the TRACK RECORD at Road Atlanta....

Alex Bolanos Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by davew:
I see 4 reasons for this experiment and none of them hold water in my opinion.

....

Dave

Could not agree more.

Bill Vanderford Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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Yes...I know about the track record...It was my team mate....but, bring all the 1.6s that you know, and you'll never duplicate it...!!!! Also, with two great drafting partners, it is possible to get on the pole with a very expensive 1.6...but, you will never be there at the end...!!! Bring em on and show us....!!!! You'll never pass a protest...!!!

--------------------
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Alex Bolanos Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Vanderford:
....but, bring all the 1.6s that you know, and you'll never duplicate it...You'll never pass a protest...!!!

I see what you're trying to say here... [Wink]

Bill Vanderford Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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We've had a lot of really expensive and very fast (and very illegal) 1.6s here since that record was set...but, nobody has broken it yet...That's mostly because Mark and Mat have gone on to racing the 99 cars...and Pepe has concentrated his fabulous set-up skills on the late model cars....Yes, a perfect 1.6 with a great drafting partner and a Pepe Pombo set-up could break that record again, but my money would be that nobody else with a legal car could do it...!!!

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Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Vanderford:
We've had a lot of really expensive and very fast (and very illegal) 1.6s here since that record was set...but, nobody has broken it yet...That's mostly because Mark and Mat have gone on to racing the 99 cars...and Pepe has concentrated his fabulous set-up skills on the late model cars....Yes, a perfect 1.6 with a great drafting partner and a Pepe Pombo set-up could break that record again, but my money would be that nobody else with a legal car could do it...!!!

Similiar to what was said when we got to 46's,45's,44's... Then the one day I had it in the 43's before Mark took it back. We all thought that was safe too...
I have news for you, that one will also fall.

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
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Bill Vanderford Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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Jim...I have no doubts that the record will fall...it just won't be with a legal 1.6....!!!!

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2004 NASA SE Spec Miata Champion

Cliffy Chains
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Vanderford:
Jim...I have no doubts that the record will fall...it just won't be with a legal 1.6....!!!!

So Bill, Can I call you Bill? , Now let me see if I get all this straight.

1. You want the SM2 Class because the 1.6's and 1.8's can't compete with the 99' cars?

2. Your mention of the track record, I guess held now by an SM2 car, at a track that has seen the best drivers the sport has seen thus far has no bearing and should be overlooked for making this class.

3. The reason it should be overlooked in you diluted opinion is that, WHEN it was set it was in a very good and legal 1.6, that had the best driver the WORLD has or ever will see, because no one in a 1.6 will ever top that record.

4. You want the competition level to be more close in SM2 than it feels now in just SM, so you are going to divide the class into lets just say, "Traffic" and "Fast Lane" classes.

5. Openly on the forum you are saying that you are just "Traffic", and want no part of being in the "Fast Lane".


Well I too will now admit something in the open forum. -----I do not rely just on my "world class", "Mind Blowing", and undoubtedly some of the best driving skills imagineable to compete. I have a POS 1.6L that I constantly scale, work on setup, air pressures, Air Fuel Ratio changes from AM to PM races, that I have a grand total of less than 10K in that I can park amoung your SM2 Class, Kick the $hit out of them and 45 minutes later place in the top of a normal SM race where some real cometition is. [thumbsup]

NEWS FLASH!!!!! It was the setup, data, constant seat time, and a well prepared car that did it, not my damn for sure 1.6L motor. [nope]

Split the class, hang yourself, drive over a Cliff (that was good huh??), don't make a difference how you say it, you want your trophy!!
I start by fessing up a couple of mine to send your way,

NOW, BILL, all I need is an address to send em to.?? [yep] [yep]

--------------------
BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

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quote:
Originally posted by Willie the Tard:
quote:
Originally posted by Blake Clements:
quote:
Originally posted by Willie the Tard:
quote:
Originally posted by davew:
The problem is that the 99 cars have the majority of the best drivers and the best prep, when compared to early cars. If there are 100 top level 1999's in the country, there are only 10 top level 90-97 cars.
Dave

If the cars as so equal why is that (he rhetorically asks)?
It has to be related to the pop up headlights.... [Razz]
01+ cars have those headlights and a bigger RP but still you all build 99s because they are so equal (again rhetorically stated).
Most of us who built 99s have a few different cars or have at least built a few in the past year or 2. If all the cars are equal why in the hell would anybody build an old car if they can afford to have a newer one? So people want a better looking car that requires less maintenance and that means that the 99s have an advantage? The reason people do not build 01+ cars is because the engine is very hard to get power out of. That does not mean it cannot be done but why bother starting from scratch when you can have the same car without the hassle. With so many 99s out there they are easy to get up to speed just like a 1.6 or a 1.8. The fact is money and running up front go hand and hand. If you want to run any Miata in the front it is going to cost money and a lot of time.

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
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Jamie Tucker Series Champ

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Vanderford:
We've had a lot of really expensive and very fast (and very illegal) 1.6s here since that record was set...but, nobody has broken it yet...That's mostly because Mark and Mat have gone on to racing the 99 cars...and Pepe has concentrated his fabulous set-up skills on the late model cars....Yes, a perfect 1.6 with a great drafting partner and a Pepe Pombo set-up could break that record again, but my money would be that nobody else with a legal car could do it...!!!

Bill get real! I like the Pombos very much and they are very good drivers but to say that they are the only ones that can set the track record is a joke. Have you seen the results lately. They are not winning every race in their 99 either! A legal 1.6 will be under the track record it is just a matter of time.

--------------------
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Bill Vanderford Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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Jamie....Show me...!!!

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2004 NASA SE Spec Miata Champion

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

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Show you? When the conditions are right all of the cars will be under the track record. Why don't you show me one driver that has parked their car because of the 99s? Counting you that makes 1! Who else? If there are more were they competitive before the 99s came on the scene? Anyone of the front running drivers will be able to run very close times in any of the miatas; if they are all equally prepped. I don't think you will find to many that would disagree. Of course you were the 2004 NASA SE Spec Miata Champion so you probably already knew that!

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Cliffy Chains
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Nasa was around in 04?? [scratchchin]

--------------------
BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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It comes full circle. When many of the top drivers are running '99s, that car is the overdog. When someone with fast hands shows up and drives the piss out of a 1.6, it's a cheater car.

I haven't been around long, but I don't think that argument will ever end.

I just want as large a field of miatas as possible. I'd like to be at the pointy end. I'm not there but in the meantime I love racing close with whoever is my competition that day working on my racecraft. With mixed cars and smaller groups, huge gaps form. You have a race, you make a pass, and you're in no-mans-land doing a lapping session.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

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quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
When many of the top drivers are running '99s, that car is the overdog. When someone with fast hands shows up and drives the piss out of a 1.6, it's a cheater car.

Funny how that is the perception of parity right now. Right or wrong, it is the SM paradox! [Smile]

-b

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Bruce Wilson
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quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
It comes full circle. When many of the top drivers are running '99s, that car is the overdog. When someone with fast hands shows up and drives the piss out of a 1.6, it's a cheater car.

I haven't been around long, but I don't think that argument will ever end.

I just want as large a field of miatas as possible. I'd like to be at the pointy end. I'm not there but in the meantime I love racing close with whoever is my competition that day working on my racecraft. With mixed cars and smaller groups, huge gaps form. You have a race, you make a pass, and you're in no-mans-land doing a lapping session.

I'm not sure who has been called a cheater in a 1.6 except for 1 car last year and the car we protested at PBIR which resulted in a 6 month vacation. Anybody that races as much as we do can tell when a car is not legal. When 2 good drivers are racing each other the difference in overtaking speeds is usually no more then a walk created by a draft. Even with the draft our cars will only get along side and than they run side by side down the straight. When a car can do more than that it raises eyebrows. I have only seen a 3 drivers wheel a 1.6 lately that I would consider top drivers (I know there are more out there) and they all have won races in legal 1.6s against top level 99s. Of course we may not have parity at all tracks and I doubt we ever will. I think that is the same for most types of racing. Nevertheless, parity is one issue and splitting the class is another. Jeff Labounty is going to the Sprints in his legal 1.6 rental and he can drive; lets see how he does. I suspect he will finish in the top 10 and beat many 99s. Alex Gains is going to the ARRC and he can drive so we will be able to see how he goes in a 1.6.

--------------------
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Keith, you forgot to say that any driver from the West Coast that shows up and drives the piss out of a 1.6 (where apparently all the good 1.6 drivers are) is a cheater! Because we all know that the best drivers in the world are from the SE [thumbsup]

-bw

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Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
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Oregon Region SM Class Advisor

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The question is SM2.The problem for a 1.6; If someone does not race every weekend, does not scale, align, and dyno the most finicky car on the track before they load up every weekend. If someone is unable to read AFR and change the spring from the cold morning to the sweltering afternoon heat, just accept that they are not going be competitive. I use competitive loosely; what is competitive; a top ten, top five. The first 1.6 in the top ten finishing 3rd?

I have all the respect for all SM guys, we as a group have taken SM racing to NASCAR levels of prep, motor building, tire cycles, scale and align, even bringing a Dyno to the track. Good for some, not so good for others.

I was thinking about getting back into SM and sent out a few emails about what to build, "Hands Down" every email came back 99.

“The powers that be” will decide what car is competitive and what is not. The rest of us will just talk about it.

--------------------
[URL=http://www.toddburas.com]
//East Street Auto//Traqmate//SafeRacer//

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quote:
Originally posted by B Wilson:
Keith, you forgot to say that any driver from the West Coast that shows up and drives the piss out of a 1.6 (where apparently all the good 1.6 drivers are) is a cheater! Because we all know that the best drivers in the world are from the SE [thumbsup]

-bw

At least thats cleared up! [yep]

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
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Great post Todd, thanks.

--------------------
http://www.mitchum.ms

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quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
It comes full circle. When many of the top drivers are running '99s, that car is the overdog. When someone with fast hands shows up and drives the piss out of a 1.6, it's a cheater car.

I agree, I guess it makes some feel better to explain these results away when others can do well in their uncompetitive car [duck]

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
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EAST STREET RACING

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quote:
Originally posted by B Wilson:
Keith, you forgot to say that any driver from the West Coast that shows up and drives the piss out of a 1.6 (where apparently all the good 1.6 drivers are) is a cheater! Because we all know that the best drivers in the world are from the SE [thumbsup]

-bw

I stopped staying that after the 06 Runoffs [Big Grin] [scratchchin] [duck]

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

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quote:
Originally posted by B Wilson:
Keith, you forgot to say that any driver from the West Coast that shows up and drives the piss out of a 1.6 (where apparently all the good 1.6 drivers are) is a cheater! Because we all know that the best drivers in the world are from the SE

-bw
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At least thats cleared up!

Hmmmmmmmm, how's that worked out for the SE so far at the Runoffs/NASA Champs. (Lamb don't count, he ain't really southern) [Razz]

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
It comes full circle. When many of the top drivers are running '99s, that car is the overdog. When someone with fast hands shows up and drives the piss out of a 1.6, it's a cheater car.

I agree, I guess it makes some feel better to explain these results away when others can do well in their uncompetitive car [duck]
Driving the piss out of it must mean sideways in every turn? [thumbsup]

--------------------
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quote:
Originally posted by d mathias:
quote:
Originally posted by B Wilson:
Keith, you forgot to say that any driver from the West Coast that shows up and drives the piss out of a 1.6 (where apparently all the good 1.6 drivers are) is a cheater! Because we all know that the best drivers in the world are from the SE

-bw
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At least thats cleared up!

Hmmmmmmmm, how's that worked out for the SE so far at the Runoffs/NASA Champs. (Lamb don't count, he ain't really southern) [Razz]
SEE! It is clear that there is not parity! We should immediately have SMSE and have our own runoffs at Sebring. Just like SM2 at Road Atlanta.

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
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wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I vote for SMwheel, SMjamie, SMButch, SMDrago, etc. Run them all in one group and everyone can come home with a win and a trophy.

Cliffy Chains
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This whole thread is getting good so far, I understand that the West Coast has the best drivers, the East Coast has the most cheaters, and the Atlanta region has the most parked SM2 cars, oh and, We get more car counts by reducing the competition level.

Where else can I go and gain so much useful knowledge in 1 single reading...

--------------------
BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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SMChains just added to the list of classes.

guest driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Cliffy Chains:
This whole thread is getting good so far, I understand that the West Coast has the best drivers, the East Coast has the most cheaters, ...

Amusing reading from a distance ... but need to interject a clarification to the above;
the bestest 'fudger' in all the land used to race in Florida (CFR), then moved out west to Ca, now resides somewhere in the desert in Nevada, still racin SMP (prototypes) ...
looong trail of DQ's in his wake ... but everyone loves him ...
[duck] [Smile]
please carry on ...

David Dewhurst
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quote:
Originally posted by guest driver:
the bestest 'fudger' in all the land used to race in Florida (CFR), then moved out west to Ca, now resides somewhere in the desert in Nevada, still racin SMP (prototypes) ...
looong trail of DQ's in his wake ... but everyone loves him ...
[duck] [Smile]
please carry on ...

IIRC this 'fudger' will be at the June Sprints this weekend.

--------------------
Have Fun [Wink]

David Dewhurst
CenDiv
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Spec Miata #14

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quote:
Originally posted by wheel:
I vote for SMwheel, SMjamie, SMButch, SMDrago, etc. Run them all in one group and everyone can come home with a win and a trophy.

I wanted to run in SMDrago last weekend but he's faster than me so I'm thinking of starting an SM2Drago class. It will have sealed pro engines and a compliance fee per run session with a claimer rule.

Colin MacLean Verified Driver
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I can certainly understand where this desire for SM2 comes from. Look, at the end of the day no matter what happens with the rules or the cars, the same 5 guys are going to be at the top of the time sheets. We've gone through many, many rule and car changes in SM and that has never changed.

Here's what has changed though.

When I started in SM the majority of the class were home-builders like me running on a strict budget, taking tires from the Hoosier junk pile and running 5-6 weekends a year. You had a couple of big operations but those guys were the minority. Everyone was running the earlier cars, they were all reasonably well priced and there were very few full-out prep cars.

If you talk to the majority of the guys who raced back then and asked what brought them into the class it was two things. Competition and budget. Thing was a guy like me with a shoestring budget and a junk motor on take-off tires could still win races against the best drivers in the region because we ALL were in the same boat running similar budgets and similar levels of prep. Competition, check. Budget, check.

THIS is what folks want. THIS is what made SM popular to begin with and this is, at the end of the day, is what SSM, SM2, SMT etc. etc. etc. are trying to bring back. Guys running a budget were the meat and potatoes of SM. They are almost all gone now. There's a reason for that.

So how realistic is it to get back to the way it was? In my opinion, as far as SM goes, the horse has already bolted the barn. SM has evolved way, way, WAY beyond that.

So is SM2 the answer? I don't know. It's certainly a call for regional budget and regional prep guys to get back in the car. It's trying to build a friendly sandbox for those guys to play in. The SM2 class as it stands definitely simplifies the problem too much in that it pretty much assumes all the 90-97 cars that show up will be lower prep than the '99's which is not true.

At the end of the day, talent put to the side, no-one likes to get beaten by the other guys wallet. If running SM2 makes the budget guy feel like he's running in a level playing field and less chance he'll get annihilated by guys in $40,000 jelly beans there's more chance he'll show up.

--------------------
Colin MacLean
Flyin' MacLean Motorsports

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quote:
Originally posted by Colin MacLean:
At the end of the day, talent put to the side, no-one likes to get beaten by the other guys wallet. If running SM2 makes the budget guy feel like he's running in a level playing field and less chance he'll get annihilated by guys in $40,000 jelly beans there's more chance he'll show up.

The only way "budget" won't win is if everyone shows up and draws lots as to which identically-prepared car he/she will drive this week. Like the the VW TDI Cup was.

Otherwise, the guy with the wallet will spend to make his car better; the guy with the time will work hard to make his car better, and the guy with the talent and skill, who puts a decent amount of money and time into his car, will win anyway.

Most of us who race in regions where there are excellent drivers are destined to be mid-packers. Enjoy it; there's lots of good racing to be had there. Getting an empty "win" because you formed a new class without the best drivers is meaningless.

David Dewhurst
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& then to keep the remainder of the folks at the pointy end of SCCA Spec Miata improving their game there is Steve Gorriaran of Gorilla Racing. [duck]

--------------------
Have Fun [Wink]

David Dewhurst
CenDiv
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500 motor and 8000 car claiming rule would keep the prep levels down. [Big Grin]

 
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