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Author Topic: Kettle National at Road America August 29-30
Kevin Coulter
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Registration is now open for the last CenDiv National of the year, the Kettle Moraine National, August 29-30 at Road America.

Please note that we have switched for this event to using http://www.motorsportsreg.com. If you have any issues using the web site, creating your garage, etc, please contact motorsportsreg.com directly. Any registration-related questions about car numbers, etc. still go to the registrars.

The complete entry packet including supps and schedule are available for download at http://www.scca-chicago.com/roadracing/2009/kettle/. A direct link to the registration page is http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.cfm/event/event.adv...041-15EF-80B93AE54D305EBB

Hope to see everyone there!

Kevin

OPM AUTOSPORTS INC Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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We are planning to bring a few cars up. Do you have any info on test days leading up to the race wknd. Thanks

--------------------
-Tom Fowler-
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Tom Maycock
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Kevin will probably respond if he has heard anything, but your best bet would be to call the track.

Any test days prior to the race would be put on by Road America, so they'd be the ones with details on what's available, prices, schedules, etc.

Tom

davew Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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According to http://www.roadamerica.com , there is a test day on both Thursday and Friday prior to the event. These test days are put on by the track and require seperate registration. Call the track at 1-800-365-RACE

Dave

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pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Is this a POG, or a run what ya brung race?

Pat

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Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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If I were going I would be tuning for the Runoffs? If someone is running non pog, they want to win or need points IMO. I will be pog and in SSB [Smile]

--------------------
Jim Drago
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mat pombo Verified Driver
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With Drago's fall to SSB, that makes Sandlin the man to beat. With the fastest race lap of the year (2:46.6) he should be quick. Hope you guys have fun and no-one tears anything up too bad. See you all in 3 weeks.

Mat

P.S. Drago, just wants to know how he stacks up with all you guys running POG;) I think you should all run alternating sessions with it and the hot stuff just to confuse him. He He He

Mr. Pink
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The only"hot stuff"we have,we'll be drinking.Looking forward to racing on this track after seeing it on tv all these years.I may be DFL but I'm planning on having a good time.All you local guys come by the OPM truck and say hi.
Mike Cottrell

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We have been running POG an will continue. Hope most are.

Pat

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Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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really sorry I will be missing this one!

--------------------
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Blake Thompson Verified Driver
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I cannot believe no one is discussing the corner 9 incident yesterday! holy crap!

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pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Our last two races there have each lasted about 5 laps each. Sucks. 08 sprints and now this.

Pat

--------------------
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Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQe0JV_8Yw0

--------------------
Jim Drago
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Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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Yikes - heard from Fowler it was a real mess. Sorry about all the carnage - hope you guys get it all fixed for the runoffs.

Also saw the damage to Cottrells car on lap one on his FB profile. Guess I was lucky to miss this one.

--------------------
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Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Holy Crap! What a mess.

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Paul McLester

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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T2 car lost an engine and oiled down the track, when Lamb got there, there was no flags until the first three miatas went off or so.
Jim

--------------------
Jim Drago
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Justin Elder Verified Driver
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I don't understand why there was no waving yellow at turn 8? I think they even should have thrown a red flag after the first few cars went off and it was obvious the track was full of oil. I was sitting in the carousel due to a lap 2 suspension failure and watched the entire incident play out. Cars were sliding into the gravel for probably close to two mintues from the time the Camaro blew it's motor and slid off track. And even after a couple cars rolled, it appears from the above video that there was not even a waving yellow in 8. I'd like to hear the officials' communication on this one, because they certainly didn't do enough to give warning of the conditions ahead. After so much time had gone by I couldn't believe how fast the cars were still entering the carousel. Glad everyone came out okay.

Zauskycop Verified Driver
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I think I saw a yellow flag at turn 8 on the video...

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Tracy Ramsey
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I saw it too, but I don't think it was waving.

Lance Snyder Made Donation to Website
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I don't know how they do it up there but down here if its on the track it's waving, off the track it's standing. That is at the request of numerous drivers, that may be what is applied up there in cheese land.

As far as the red flag, talk to your operating steward. HE is the ONLY one who can red flag the course. Corner workers can only advise of the situation, operating steward makes the call.

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All this has happened before, and will happen again

Todd Lamb Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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One word for me: lucky.

Two words for safety: debris flag.

Three words for scoring: last completed lap.

--------------------
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quote:
Originally posted by Todd Lamb:
One word for me: lucky.

Two words for safety: debris flag.

Three words for scoring: last completed lap.

I will second that on the scoring. That should have been a Red Flag race.

Pat

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Blake Thompson Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Justin Elder:
I don't understand why there was no waving yellow at turn 8? I think they even should have thrown a red flag after the first few cars went off and it was obvious the track was full of oil. I was sitting in the carousel due to a lap 2 suspension failure and watched the entire incident play out. Cars were sliding into the gravel for probably close to two mintues from the time the Camaro blew it's motor and slid off track. And even after a couple cars rolled, it appears from the above video that there was not even a waving yellow in 8. I'd like to hear the officials' communication on this one, because they certainly didn't do enough to give warning of the conditions ahead. After so much time had gone by I couldn't believe how fast the cars were still entering the carousel. Glad everyone came out okay.

Red flag is at the discretion of control, but a waving yellow was necessary at 8. Was 9 manned? I saw a stationary and I think FURLED yellow at 8... it didn't look like he was showing yellow at all to Jerret.

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How about a debris flag?

--------------------
Paul McLester

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Was there no flag station prior to the carousel(other then 8)? Were there other incidents tying up the radios?

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All this has happened before, and will happen again

JRandall
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When I came though (10th) it was standing yellow at 8 and they were just getting the debris flag out at. The car in front of me and the two behind went off into the mess of cars. You can see the shower of rocks over Jerret's car when they hit the trap.

--------------------
James Randall
SM 89

Blake Thompson Verified Driver
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apparently the shower of rocks took out his tail lights and finish panel. His father in law says it looks like someone took a shotgun to it. ouch.

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Brockodile
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I was next to hit the beach behind Jerret, Car #6 coming in tail first in upper right-hand corner of picture. Closest ever I've finished to Todd Lamb... six inches from his door (his car is obscured by a black VW...the one whose front bumber cover can be seen in the foreground until retrieved by a worker.) I recognized his purple car as I lost all control in the oil and thought for sure I was going to hit him. Better lucky than good.
Re the flag situation, I think I was the in 8th place in SM at the time, with some out of class cars in the mix. I saw the smoke in the carousel as I went down the hill toward Turn 8. I assumeed someone was off the outside (boy, was I right). I saw a standing yellow, but, consistent with what Lance said, assumed it was a car off-track, so entered the carousel alert for the incident, but going 9/10's. I saw the pile of cars just before I hit the oil: too late to do anything.
I feel nothing but gratitude for the workers and all that they do, and I know they are always working to improve their game. To that end, I would simply offer this: Assuming the chief steward has to make the call, there probably was too little time to process a red flag before I hit the oil, but the on-site workers can display the debris flag on their own initiative. I think this is appropriate whenever the track is oiled.
Finally, I want to say that Road America is a truly fantastic facility and that the event was as well-run as any I have attended. SCCA made a great choice of this site for the Nationals. I'm from the South, famous for its hospitality, but we have nothing on the folks from Wisconsin.

--------------------
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We can display a local flag without the steward in the chair saying anything, however looking at that video I see no flag position from 8 to the carousel. With that being the case that is a VERY long way for 8 to see anything, information would have to come from what I assume would be the station exiting the carousel. Looking at the video the car last site of the station is at the :20 second mark, the oil is hit at the :31 second mark. There will be some lag from the time the car blew up, to the cars flying off the course to processing ok... crap is down on track to finally relaying that message to 8 to go surface and informing race control what's going on (I think Road America is on radios and that's assuming you don't have something else going on). Yes we can screw up, yes we do screw up and we will continue screw up... BUT there are some details that need to be fleshed out before stating what needed to be done. Hopefully we can get some folks that were monitoring the net while watching the situation to chime in.

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Dusty Bottoms Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Lance Snyder:
We can display a local flag without the steward in the chair saying anything, however looking at that video I see no flag position from 8 to the carousel. With that being the case that is a VERY long way for 8 to see anything, information would have to come from what I assume would be the station exiting the carousel.

I wasn't sure if I was missing a station or if what you're saying is right. It sure seems like a long way.

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"Your victory is tainted! Asterisk! Asterisk!!!"--Lisa Simpson

Dusty Bottoms Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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This video shows yellow and what looks like debris flag at 8.

http://www.vimeo.com/6363118

--------------------
"Your victory is tainted! Asterisk! Asterisk!!!"--Lisa Simpson

Mike C Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I am from the WDCR, I think we are the most hard core, waiving on the paving and standing off. The problem is the danger WAS on the pavement!!! The danger was the oil. I have no idea what the WDCR flag marshal's would say about it but that is certainly how I feel about it. The video is VERY scary.

--------------------
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Mr. Pink
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Antonio-Thanks for posting that video.My video didn't work and with Ryan following me,I have a better idea of what happened at turn 14.I thought that first lap was crazy but it got worse for a lot of people.Hopefully the pink car will live.

davew Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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A little Road America knowledge.

Turn 8 is the down hill left hander where you can see a yellow is displayed.

The next corner staion is drivers left at the "speedville" bridge. I can not make out a flag there, and it may not have been manned as worker turn out was a little light this weekend.

The next corner station (#10)is at the end of the carosel. This would be the only corner station with a view of what happened. Since they where after the incedent, any flagging done there was worthless. And they may not of had a view of the oil slick. The track goes down hill at that point and early morning sunlight may have caused poor visibility.

T10 would have had to request T8 to go yellow via radio. This is done pretty quick as the yellow flag is in a workers hand at all times. Then requested "debris". This is NOT in someones hand. It is usually leaning against a wall. From the time T10 realizes the oil spill to T8 getting a debris flag out could easily take 10+ seconds.

I talked with the chief steward after the event. He said the corner calls went from a possible smoking Camaro (T8), to definately smoking to "Oh my god, MAYDAY NOW" (T10)in about 10 seconds.

I do not see anything the workers could have done differently that would have kept the incedent from happening.

Just the opinion of someone who was NOT in the race, but knows Road America well.

Dave

--------------------
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Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Antonio Garza:
This video shows yellow and what looks like debris flag at 8.

http://www.vimeo.com/6363118

Uh.... 3:07

--------------------
Jason Holland
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Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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I was wondering if anyone else noticed that 800 lb 'gorilla" in the room [Smile]

--------------------
Jim Drago
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Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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Sure did! WOW!!!

--------------------
Danny
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--------------------
Tom Kearney
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*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

volante Verified Driver
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I think Jason means WTF.Not his fault though,looks like he had about 4 guys on his ass and one on the inside which took the line and he couldn't get on the gas when he needed,which was about 4 seconds to late.Which means,see yaa.

I was more interested as he went through the Kettle Bottoms about to pass ol' blue 82 when he got pinched in the grass.Not good Stevie.

--------------------
volante

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I think those were all SSM's that the gorilla passed in one straight....had to be, right?

--------------------
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quote:
Originally posted by Antonio Garza:
This video shows yellow and what looks like debris flag at 8.

http://www.vimeo.com/6363118

Also shows a PUY coming out of T8 at 7:28ish...

Tom Scheifler Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by volante:
I was more interested as he went through the Kettle Bottoms about to pass ol' blue 82 when he got pinched in the grass.Not good Stevie.

From the other site since Steve can't post here ...

quote:
There has been mention that in Ryanís video (5:17) it appears I squeezed him at the fastest part of the track. In fact, it looked that way to me when I first watched it last night. His fisheye lens makes it hard to judge how much room he had, but he did lift. For those not familiar with the track, that stretch after the kink is essentially one long straight for us since we donít need to brake until T12, but to carry maximum speed I think most people try to turn the wheels as little as possible. The point where I squeezed Ryan is in effect the track-out for one of the bends. Watch the lap before and you will see that we both drift out there, as he does on the following lap.

Ryan, if indeed I squeezed you it certainly was not intentional. In fact I made a point of giving you extra room several times because I knew you had a better shot of moving up than I did.


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pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Todd Lamb:
I think those were all SSM's that the gorilla passed in one straight....had to be, right?

That car sure did handle well down the straight.

pat

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
I was wondering if anyone else noticed that 800 lb 'gorilla" in the room [Smile]

er, 2450 lb. gorilla

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Blake Thompson Verified Driver
Now The Fastest "Blake" in Spec Miata

Region: Central
Car #: 97
Year : 1991
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quote:
Originally posted by Antonio Garza:
This video shows yellow and what looks like debris flag at 8.

http://www.vimeo.com/6363118

agreed, quite clearly, and it appears it saved the video's author from the dust...

but from Mr. Gerber's video I would say the flag was definetely not as clear as this.

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Blake Thompson Verified Driver
Now The Fastest "Blake" in Spec Miata

Region: Central
Car #: 97
Year : 1991
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quote:
Originally posted by Lance Snyder:
We can display a local flag without the steward in the chair saying anything,

Incorrect.


6.11. FLAGS
6.11.1. The names and described flags below are used in racing to convey the commands or information indicated. They shall be obeyed immediately and without question. The directives of Section 6.11. shall not be amended by any event Supplemental Regulations.

I. RED (Solid Red)
Displayed at each station and on the Starterís stand - EXTREME DANGER - THE SESSION HAS BEEN STOPPED. Come to an immediate, controlled stop at the side of the race track (indicated by an official at that location or as specified in the event Supplementary Regulations). When released by an Official, proceed cautiously to the pits.
NOTE: THE RED FLAG CAN ONLY BE DISPLAYED BY ORDER OF THE CHIEF STEWARD AS RELAYED THROUGH RACE CONTROL.

Capitals didn't seem enough, emphasis mine. I am not intending to argue with you about the case of other flags, our discussion was specific to the red flag.

IMO, corner 8 should have been standing yellow long before the oil was spilled as there was a car off track driver's left (he elaborated earlier on suspension issues) earlier in the session.

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EBudman Verified Driver
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Region: Detroit
Car #: #71
Year : 1990
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quote:
Originally posted by Blake Thompson:
quote:
Originally posted by Lance Snyder:
We can display a local flag without the steward in the chair saying anything,

Incorrect.
......
NOTE: THE RED FLAG CAN ONLY BE DISPLAYED BY ORDER OF THE CHIEF STEWARD AS RELAYED THROUGH RACE CONTROL.
......
IMO, corner 8 should have been standing yellow long before the oil was spilled as there was a car off track driver's left (he elaborated earlier on suspension issues) earlier in the session.

Actually, Lance was the first person to say that the Chief Steward is the only one who can call for a red flag in his first post.

T8 had been standing yellow for several laps early, including 7:28 in Osiecki's video when he passes the blue car. As is normally the case, the standing yellow is dropped after 2-3 laps when everyone should have seen the car off track.

guest driver
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Year : 94
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quote:
Originally posted by JimEli:
quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
I was wondering if anyone else noticed that 800 lb 'gorilla" in the room [Smile]

er, 2450 lb. gorilla
bunch of 'forensic scientists' in this room ... Dragy, fightin Irish, Springbok, Shaun da Sheep, now Dr J ... [Wink]
all studying film of King Kong, not to worry, will be at 185 lbs for the big Dance ... keep an eye out though for Q session # 1, be a few "missed shifts " then motor changes after that first session ...
[scratchchin]

Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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Car #: 39
Year : 1999
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^^ Relax ....... just having fun with it!!! Everyone is wound up really tight as we get closer to the runoffs!!!

Who says our Spec Miata technology is antiquated - just look at what we inherited from F1 / Indy Cars. Just not sure if its the 80Hp from the KERS or its the Push to Pass system. Either way it really works!!!!

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Danny
http://www.dannysteyn.com
http://www.adeptstudios.com
OPM Autosports | Traqmate | Rossini Racing Engines
2010 June Sprints Champ, 2010 ARRC SMX Champ
2009 SARRC Champ, 2009 SEDiv ECR Champ, 2009 FES Champ
2008 SEDiv ECR Champ

 
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