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Author Topic: Water - radiator
Frank Todaro
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I did a search and could not find a post, I am going to drain the water/antifreeze out of the radiator, getting ready for my first event, I will use a bottle of water wetter. Do you use tap water or is distilled the way to go?

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Frank
Member: No Pain Racing

cpdenis
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Distilled

Jay Lutz
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I have heard, but I cannot find it in the 2010 SCCA GCR, that cooling system antifreeze is prohibited? Does anyone know about this or am I hallucinating again?

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"In our sport if you go out of bounds you're most likely not coming back" Michael Waltrip

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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It's not in the GCR as best as I can tell. You might be thinking LeMons or something like that. I know antifreeze wasn't allowed in Chump Car since cars start puking fluid everywhere frequently.

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Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Greg Bush Verified Driver
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Even though it's not prohibited, some consider it dangerous and rude to run it.

Dangerous because it is very slippery on the track, and rude because it's so hard to clean up.

It doesn't really belong on track in anything.

Tom's Double O Verified Driver
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First 2 post have it right. Distilled water and water wetter. This combination is best for the cooling system, cooling capabilities and safety.

Anti-freeze does not cool as good as plain water, so the only benefit would be from freezing or boiling, neither of which applies to us(unless you do ice racing:)).

And greg is absolutlely right; anti freeze and race track don't go together. As an eample-typically the most dangerous situations with DE days is most cars are street cars and have anti freeze in them. The worst incidents in these events usually develop from an anti freeze spill. Just this year an instructor was kill due to this.

If someone looked at the water in my SM they may think I have anti freeze and that's because the Water Wetter I used is GREEN.

Tom

Jay Lutz
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I couldn't agree more......but my car is in the trailer ready for Gateway....and it is predicted to snow in my area Saturday night. I plan to change it out in the paddock at Gateway Friday afternoon but life could possibly get in the way for the first session and I don't want the car to be illegal.

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"In our sport if you go out of bounds you're most likely not coming back" Michael Waltrip

Kyle Freiheit
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http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27553

Fatal crash at a DE when the driver hit a patch of coolant.

kyle

Jay Lutz
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Iguess I didn't realize the problem was so prevalent. We should lobby our compboard rep Jim Drago to push for a ban on antifreeze across the board....in ALL classes.

Jim......what do you think?

Thanks, Jay

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"In our sport if you go out of bounds you're most likely not coming back" Michael Waltrip

cpdenis
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+1

Tom's Double O Verified Driver
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http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=33408&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

This is the one I referenced in my post above. See post#3 and the reference to water-anti freeze on track. Hopefully we can all learn from this.

Unfortuanely loose of coolant on track is more likely than any oil being spilt on track. And when it spills it is very hard to see as it is very thin and usually much more of it is dropped due to a hose breaking.

Tom

Tom's Double O Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Jay Lutz:
I couldn't agree more......but my car is in the trailer ready for Gateway....and it is predicted to snow in my area Saturday night. I plan to change it out in the paddock at Gateway Friday afternoon but life could possibly get in the way for the first session and I don't want the car to be illegal.

Please take the 10 minutes it takes to change over to water for your conscience and everyone else's safety.

I'm ashamed to admit that years ago I ran with anti-freeze in a practice session for the exact same reason you mentioned. I had to transport my car through temps in the teens and showed up at the track with less than an hour before the session. Yea, I changed it out before the qualify session, but what if something went wrong during that practice. Although nothing went wrong, I have regretted putting everyone I was on track with at risk. No one ever knew, but I promised that will never happen again even if I have to miss a session.

Tom

Jay Lutz
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Tom, that's my plan.

But if it's such a BIG issue and it affects EVERYONE equally.......why don't we lobby to get the rules changed for our own collective safety????

Thanks, Jay

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"In our sport if you go out of bounds you're most likely not coming back" Michael Waltrip

Jay Lutz
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Here is my letter to the CRB. Like minded indviduals should respond in kind. Thanks, Jay
--------------------------------------------

Request Details

Title: Elimination of antifreeze for SCCA club racing
Category: GCR
Class: GCR
Car: none
Request: Gentlemen:

I have recently become aware of some serious PDX and other water leak with antifreeze track accidents that could have been reduced in severity or eliminated had antifreeze been prohibited in these vehicles. While it may not be practical to eliminate antifreeze in all classes, in most this would not be an issue. Research has shown that:

* vehicle cooling is improved when antifreeze is eliminated
* antifreeze is extremely slippery when leaked onto a track surface
* antifreeze is almost undetectable by drivers on track

In order to maximize safety and reduce the severity of some on track accidents, I respectfully request this change.

Sincerely,

Jay Lutz
National Comp license # 38475

letter number #926

You can go here to track your letter:

http://www.crbscca.com/front%20side/track.php

You can also sign up for email notification if you wish to receive emails from the Club Racing Board. Follow this link:

http://www.crbscca.com/front%20side/email/submitemail.php

Thank you,

CRB
http://www.scca.com

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"In our sport if you go out of bounds you're most likely not coming back" Michael Waltrip

Eric Richter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I'm pretty sure NASA doesn't allow it. They were looking for it in tech at last weeks event at AAA Speedway.

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2009 SoCal SCCA SM Champion
"Only boring people get bored"

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Not totally OT, if you wear polarized sunglasses, it is much more difficult to see spilled coolant or oil. The glare you'd normally see reflecting off the spill is filtered out. Been there done that. Bad craziness, fear and loathing.

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Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Frank Todaro
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quote:
Originally posted by Eric Richter:
I'm pretty sure NASA doesn't allow it. They were looking for it in tech at last weeks event at AAA Speedway.

My first event this year is with NASA, and NO anti-freeze is allowed. Like some of you April 9 still could be below freezing, just going to cross my fingers.

Where do you buy your distilled water?

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Frank
Member: No Pain Racing

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Wal-Mart

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Paul McLester

Mark McCallister Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Grocery store. Costs a lot less than milk or orange juice. Not that I'd put those in the rad either...

skrzastek
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Year : 1992
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how do you totally get all the coolant out of the system? Even if you drain from the radiator doesn't some still get caught in the heater core?

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#91 SSM

Tom's Double O Verified Driver
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Our cars take about 1 Gal. At less than $1/gal for distilled water, just drain the anti-freeze, refill with distilled water, warm up the engine and then drain again and it will be 95%+ free of antifreeze. Or ust drain and refill without flushing it and you will be 90%+ free of anti-freeze.

Tom

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I was going to describe my garden hose flush method but that seems much less messy.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

l8tbreakr
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I bought my car with some kind of industrial grade coolant - have emptied, filled, warmed up/circulated, drained 3x now. Still coming out yellow. I ran out of old milk jugs and I'm just dumping it into a 5 gallon bucket. Hopefully tonight I'll get clear!

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AJ Goldsmith
Westborough, MA

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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It is common for a little bit of surface rust to form inside the engine block. Sure you're not trying to rinse more than just coolant out? [Wink]

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Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Motor City Hamilton
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Does anyone add anti-rust/water pump lube to their water/water wetter? A drag racing friend pointed this stuff out to me?

Dave Lewis
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I do Kieth, not sure its needed, but just erring on the safe side.

Dennis Clark Verified Driver
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From the WaterWetter label:

"Reduces rust, corrosion and electrolysis.
Cleans and lubricates water pump seals."

I use only WaterWetter and flush/change it twice a year.

Dennis

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3D Racing
Team Scrappy, car # 27

l8tbreakr
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Naw mine is all coolant. It's getting clearer but not there yet. I'm going bonzai on it tonight. I have 4 more gallons of capacity in my bucket, figure that'll do it. It's easy to idle and drain while working on other things as long as the car is on stands and I don't need to mess with anything hot.

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AJ Goldsmith
Westborough, MA

B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
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I use water pump lube, way cheaper than ripoff bubblegum colored stuff that doesn't seem to do anything. Seems to keep the rust to a mimimum too.

-b

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Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E3 and Under 2 liter Overall Champion
Oregon Region SM Class Advisor

Motor City Hamilton
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis Clark:
From the WaterWetter label:

"Reduces rust, corrosion and electrolysis.
Cleans and lubricates water pump seals."

I use only WaterWetter and flush/change it twice a year.

Dennis

My water wetter label does not say that.

cintibob
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It seems to me several years ago I thought water wetter came two ways one for use with anti freeze and one without. I maybe wrong.

Dennis Clark Verified Driver
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I have 4 bottles of WaterWetter, they all say the same thing. They also say "Compatible with all types of antifreeze/coolant".

There's one one kind of WaterWetter on RedLine website, maybe they used to have 2 but now only one?

Dennis

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3D Racing
Team Scrappy, car # 27

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Maybe they ran into the same problem as big tobacco with "light" cigarettes turning into "blues".

Now instead of "Reduces rust, corrosion and electrolysis. Cleans and lubricates water pump seals." it's changed to "It's pink and you dump it in your radiator".

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Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

SCCA_Racer
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Does anybody use the Motul coolant additive?

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Joshua Fine
SCCA member 323214 since 2003
Novice Permit in 2010
Racing 2011

mghenwood
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So what is the best water/water wetter/coolant ratio everyone is running? I just installed a new springfield dyno rad, so would like to know whats best. I run in the MARRS series and run some enduros like the 12 hour this weekend at NJMP as well.
Thanks.

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Distilled water with Redline water wetter.

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Paul McLester

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I last used Royal Purples equivalent to water wetter and it warned against using distilled water with aluminum radiator, for what it is worth

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Royal Purple does warn against distilled water, but Redline does not. Here is the Redline tech sheet on water wetter. I now understand why we run water and wetter only. If our radiator holds 6 quarts, then we should use 4-5 cap fulls of water wetter per quart. I usually just dump the whole bottle in the radiator.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&...g2=hr20tKJQmyVMfKUZEqYWLg

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Paul McLester

Niklas Falk
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quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
I last used Royal Purples equivalent to water wetter and it warned against using distilled water with aluminum radiator, for what it is worth

Distilled water can get very different pH after some time in the system (don't think that the water will stay "distilled" (at ph7) after being in any contact with the mixed metals in the cooling system.

A more fundamental question; what pH would be safest/best in the cooling system?
There are buffers that might help ease the mind (pH7 is the easy answer but 6 or 8 might be better).
There might be buffering components in the Water wetters but it can be interesting to know the background.

mghenwood
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Ok so I can just dump the whole bottle of water wetter in and the distilled water and I am good to go then?

ChrisA
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quote:
Originally posted by mghenwood:
Ok so I can just dump the whole bottle of water wetter in and the distilled water and I am good to go then?

According to Redline you should use 1-oz per quart of water. That is half a bottle per change.

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Chris

"Nothing can be simple. Everything's got to be a pain in the ass." - C. Adams

Kyle Freiheit
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Huh, I dump the whole bottle in.

Kyle

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Last weekend I tried Hy-Per Lube radiator additive. They claim 20* cooler temps than straight water for racing applications.

It did run nice and cool. My block exploded after a few sessions but man was it cool when it blew.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Keith

Something tells me they would rather you not endorse their product.... [rolling on floor laughin]

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Paul McLester

Steven Holloway Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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First off, yes I sell the product, but only wholesale, so I'm not fishing here...I sell the stuff because it works.

BG makes a product called Supercool, it's a cooling system conditioner.
It has surfactants to help with heat transfer, rust inhibitor, pump lubricant, anti-electrolysis and ph stabilizers.
I run it with distilled water and have NEVER had an overheat or rusty water issue. I usually only change it over the winter if I haven't had to drain the system.

I won't sell you any. Find it @ GRE, or, bgdindashop.com

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's got electrical problems.

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Is this the same thing?
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=117&pcid=10

--------------------
Paul McLester

   

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