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Author Topic: Yet Another Weight Q
tom_hampton
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Region: SW
Year : 1992
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Okay I searched, I really did. And, I read all 5,000 threads! honest. I know this has been overdone...but, while there is lots of stuff about what people have removed (what is/is not legal/or is somewhat grey), and "The Clown" complaining about being overweight and no one helping him(still not sure if he ever bought anyone a lunch), no one lists the delta from stock. I know in the end this doesn't matter...but....

I don't have scales and I don't know the original weight of this car. I poked around also looking for a base dry-weight for the NA, too. Haven't found that, either. Several people have posted [b]final[B] dry-weights...Casey Z seems to have been the winner in this, at under 2000 lbs (dry-ish).

But, no one quotes how much weight they have removed in total. So, I don't have any way to determine if I'm "in the ball-park".

I've weighted everything I've removed, and so far the tally is 332 lbs. I've listed everything I've removed and its weight over on my blog (not including the 50-odd lbs I removed this weekend...haven't got around to updating the list, yet).

I'm not done, but I've done most of the easy stuff. Everything, that I know of, that is left is a trade for something lighter, rather than an outright removal. So...I'm curious if anyone has a similar tally for an NA (1992). Am I:

  • close (within 100 lbs)?
  • Still have some work to do (within 200 lbs)?
  • Worse (more than 200 lbs off)?
  • "don't be silly" (only halfway there...300+) ?

Anyone want to share you total removed weights from an NA? I'm guessing that I may find another 100 lbs or so...but, if that doesn't do it...I'll be scratching my head.

[Confused] [Confused] [Confused]

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Tom Hampton
Miata build: http://www.tomhampton.info

Johnny D Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I think you want to be talking items, not weight.

Have you taken off everything that the GCR allows you to? Spec are up top on the tool bar.

Pictures may help for us to spot something.
No race buddy to compare with?

J~

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Avatar Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww9cFE3lKcA

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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You said it yourself... In the end it doesn't really matter how much weight you took out.

You have to put some weight back in, trade some parts for other parts that don't weigh the same. Rotating weight is different that static weight. Weight down low is different than weight up high.

Here is a chart straight off the trusty interweb of curb weights year to year. What options that includes is another matter...

http://www.norcalroadsters.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2227

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Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

tom_hampton
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Region: SW
Year : 1992
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Johnny-

The "items" are listed over on my blog, but in the end it is really weight that matters, right? There are about 700 pictures over there of every step in the build process that I've completed. No secrets.

But, its the usual things:

carpets, seats+sliders, AC system (compressor, condenser, evaporator, all plumbing), PS system (pump, resovoire, plumbing, bracket), fender liners, airbag system, radio, radio antenna, all insulation and sound deadening, headliner, hard top latches, door guts, vent windows (replaced with NACA lexan), door sheet metal, e-brake, center console, black tar goo on floor, hood and trunk latches (and all cabling, brackets, and levers), cruise control system, seam sealer.

I plan to, but have not removed: seat belts, rear dust shields (no cage/race seat, yet).

That's just from memory, I might have forgotten one of two things.

AFAIK, the only thing mentioned in the GCR that I haven't removed is "lights mounted on or below the bumper". I only read this paragraph last night, and haven't even looked to see if I have any. Besides I was going to reread the para and the SM specs again before I committed.

The hard part is finding all the loopholes that allow you to remove this or that, and the rules that require you NOT to remove that other thing.

I haven't made any mods to the engine or exhaust. So, the stock airbox is still there, and the stock exhaust (muffler + cat) is still present. These should be worth quite a few pounds.

I haven't gotten crazy with removing or replacing fasteners, either. I've got a bucket that I put removed bolts+nuts into...its up to about 6 lbs or so. But, I haven't done anything exotic like Ti, Al or hollow bolts.

I haven't had a cheap aftermarket windshield installed.

I wonder how much sheet metal weight could be sanded off? [Big Grin]

Nope. No race buddy. Got the bug on my own, and haven't met anybody, yet.


Keith-

I know, I know, I know. I've seen the norcal site and a couple other similar lists. Like you say, the options matter...when you're trying to compare a few hundred pounds out of 2500. I have no information on the precision or accuracy of those numbers.

I figure the weight removed is more reliable for comparison than the random curb weight figures on the interweb. Everyone here is much more concious and careful about weights than the folks that quote curb weight to the 00s.

I'm just futily trying to replace the scales that I don't have. I know its futile...but, its an OCD problem. I'm dying to know where I am. I can't let it go. I've tried. [help]

I know there are better things to spend my money on than scales (cage, seat, harness, suit, track time). but....

I wonder if I could use my hoist to weight the car....anybody got a 1500 lbs fish-scale?

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Tom Hampton
Miata build: http://www.tomhampton.info

Johnny D Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Try one of the truck weigh station you find on the side of the freeway/highway.

J~

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Avatar Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww9cFE3lKcA

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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We race a 92, my son weighs about 195 and we can make the 2275 weight, with about 1 gallon to spare.

We have taken off all the usual item, still have all the fender liners in and haven't replaced any bolts with lighter bolt, or haven't removed any undercoating. We have a MXL gauge, and GPS and Camera in the car. I figure we could probably get rid of another 15 lbs or so if we removed undercoating and repainted it but until the weight is reduced, no need to.

Pat

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

Motor City Hamilton
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Trying to add up the weights of the items you have removed, then estimating the weight of the cage, gear, seat, belts, etc. seems like an awefully long way around to calculate your total weight. Just seems silly to me and very, very inaccurate way to weigh something.

Remove everything you are allowed, finish the car, then find another racer in the area with a set of scales.

George Munson Verified Driver
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You could try some dumps and transfer stations as well. I have weighed trailers and trucks for tag work at them

Kyle Burkhardt
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I thought this was a spec class? Take out what the rules let you take out, replace with lighter items what the rules allow you to replace and you are done! Go weigh it, add ballast, race.

I've always found that the big difference between cars is in the cage.

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Kyle Burkhardt
NASA Midwest
#12 SM

Qik Nip Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
Loose Member '09 & '10 Great Lakes Regional Points Champion

Region: Cincinnati Great Lakes
Car #: 60
Year : 1990
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyle Burkhardt:
I've always found that the big difference between cars is in the cage.

Bingo!

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Fortune Cookie Racing SM 60
Directions for use: Race, Rumple, Repair ... Repeat!

fishguyaz
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Region: AZ/SoPac
Car #: 92
Year : 99
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if you are near southern AZ i have scales and will help you scale the car. i just see you listed as SW region.

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Josh Pitt
AZ Region

David Dewhurst
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quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
get rid of another 15 lbs or so if we removed undercoating

Per which rule Pat?

[shame]

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Have Fun [Wink]

David Dewhurst
CenDiv
Milwaukee Region
Spec Miata #14

CP Verified Driver
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Not allowed. The undercoating stays.

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-Cy
Supported by LTD Racing & Speed Shack - New England's Premier Auto Accessory Store
Rt1 AutoMile - Norwood, MA
http://www.speedshackonline.com

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I understand that also, that is why it is still on my car also.
Some say you can stretch the rule, by removing the undercoating and then painting, as they consider that undercoating.

I don't think the undercoating is going to save that much, but I have heard people twist there interpretation of that rule that way.

Until there is a rule that spells that out, I would recommend keeping the undercoating on. [Smile]

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keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

cam Verified Driver
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Tom, looks like you're out of the Dallas area. Seveal local builders have scales and I know MSR-C has scales. Your kind of puting the cart before the horse, I recommend building a safe car and then start to worry about striping out weight. You will find much more speed with seat time than low weight or more power. Good luck

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"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
~Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
~Thomas Jefferson

Johnny D Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by tom_hampton:


its an OCD problem. I'm dying to know where I am. I can't let it go. I've tried. [help]


I believe it.
J~

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Motor City Hamilton
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quote:
Originally posted by CP:
Not allowed. The undercoating stays.

Anyone EVER been protested for removing the undercoating? How exactly would you repaint the bottom of the car (to avoid or fix rust, of course) without removing the undercoating. Do we need a rule that says you'd have to add undercoating back if repainted? The rules don't say we are allowed to add undercoating, but really, how would you tell? The undercoating is in the perfect place for weight, as low as possible on the car.

Hmmmm... I just may repaint the underside of my car and add 25lbs of a thick coat of under coating, instead of having weight riding around inside the car with me. Plus, I could make it a little thicker on the passenger side to help offset my weight. I think I have just found the new grey areas cheat!

tom_hampton
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Year : 1992
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Undercoating: never planned on removing it. My point wasn't to ask "what else can I remove". I'm happy to get suggestions, but most of the low-weight guys seemed pretty cagey about what they've removed. That's cool.

Cam-

Yes, I'm east of Dallas. I've been to MSR-C several times. I've rented SM cars from Keith Verges and Shannon McMasters (Team MER). I've already talked to Shannon about putting the setup on the car (and of course scaling it). Just a stable predictable setup to get seat time in.

This is just an intellectual exercise because I'm curious. The suggestion to use a local truck scale was helpful. I had a PM on that idea also.

I'm stripping out weight because that's what I have time and budget to do. I've not yet been put in the solo group, so my opportunities for track time are more limited (job commitments have has some impact too). Removing weight, cleaning, replacing random parts, etc gives me something to do between placing large orders for parts.

Not trying to get fast or anything like that. The engine is bone stock except new plugs and wires. Haven't touched it, don't intend to. No dyno time is planned...no head work, no exhaust, no intake or AFM tuning, etc.

So, I do what I can, when I can. I was hoping to get some track time before the end of the season....but, that is seeming less likely for various reasons. The plan is to install the cage/seat/harness over the winter.

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Tom Hampton
Miata build: http://www.tomhampton.info

Kyle Burkhardt
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Tom:

Last winter I was trying to take weight out of my GTS3 BMW. I was the same way--doing research on what each little component should weigh; filling a gargbage bag with the tiny bits of metal and plastic I was pulling out (mind you, it was already pretty gutted) including hole-sawing the bumpers. It was a ton of fun and in the end, I nailed my estimate.

My SM was a SSC car before. It took me all of 2 hours and a screwdriver to get the thing stripped to the limit of the rules. It was very dissatisfying, but in the end you just have to walk away from it.

Have fun!

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Kyle Burkhardt
NASA Midwest
#12 SM

Zauskycop Verified Driver
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Here's a question. Can you pull the instrument cluster out? I have an AIM gauge panel, and can't see it anyway...

What do you do with the speedo cable?

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Tracy Ramsey
Team Blenderblaster

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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You can pull the instrument cluster. A few places make nice blanking plates for the big ugly hole. Victory lane data has one and a template you can print out for where to put holes to mount it.

I left the cable in for now. It sits zip tied on both ends. You'd need to get some sort of cap for the trans end. I have an NB trans which is electrical, not a long spinny wire so it's already capped.

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Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

oem steve
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My friend gutted his instrument panel put in a flat piece of aluminum and mounted his big tach right there.There are other post on how to keep up with gas consumption on this forum and installing an oil pressure gauge since they will go by by.

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email: standrewsexpress@bellsouth.net
visit us at http://www.standrewsexpress.com

Under powered and under driven

juliancates
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quote:
Originally posted by oem steve:
My friend gutted his instrument panel put in a flat piece of aluminum and mounted his big tach right there.There are other post on how to keep up with gas consumption on this forum and installing an oil pressure gauge since they will go by by.

That's what I am in the process of doing, now. Blanking plate on the way from Advanced Autosports, where I'll be mounting the RacePak IQ3 dash. Already have an oil pressure gauge mounted in the eyeball vents, but will be mounting a programmable fuel level gauge on the dash plate as well.

   

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