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Author Topic: The white elephant in room
Blake Clements Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by oem steve:
I've never met Jamie but he sounds some what like he's with me in the vertically challenged department.

The man uses a booster chair at dinner. [Razz]

(Also true story)

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Blake Clements

PhillipsRacePrep/SP Induction Systems/East Street Racing/MiataCage.com/Carbotech/WBR Graphics

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TillerTech
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I have no dog in this hunt, however, I am and have been associated with other racing organizations that have simular issues with fuel.

If you want a rule "written" to limit fuels, you need to know the history of how it got to this point.

The tools are out there, spot testing is the only way to catch some/most compounds that are of the light aromatic components. Believe it or not, the request for "pump gas" is a major cause for the current situation.

There are many solutions, not everyone will be happy, infact, if 50% agree I would be surprised.

This thread/discussion has been around for many years.

John

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Miata Race glass and CF from Legacy Molds. 4 1/2# CF Hood
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Rich Verified Driver
Oh, that's where that is.

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
Not sure what the difference is, but I agree, it was far better in 02-05 than it is now.
Jim

Hmm...I started in '05...

Let's start going to car shows instead.

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Rich Wiese

Spec Wrecker Ford

mat pombo Verified Driver
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Danny,

The tire thing is an SCCA problem. I have always wanted Hoosier, a molded DOT without needing shaving. They have a good rain also. Two options without the need to shave to 1/16th, 2/16th, 3/16ths, or 4/16th because you can't. There is no need to spend countless dollars on testing the best depth of shave or best stagger for Road Atlanta, because you just can't. Instead we are with a street tread tire, that is again a problem that SCCA created when they selected this tire for us.

Some things we can control, and I'm a firm believer that fuel and tires are easy. See above for tire fix, and my earlier post for fuel fix.

mat

d mathias Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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+1 for Hoosier

Tom Sager Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by mat pombo:
Danny,

The tire thing is an SCCA problem. I have always wanted Hoosier, a molded DOT without needing shaving. They have a good rain also. Two options without the need to shave to 1/16th, 2/16th, 3/16ths, or 4/16th because you can't. There is no need to spend countless dollars on testing the best depth of shave or best stagger for Road Atlanta, because you just can't. Instead we are with a street tread tire, that is again a problem that SCCA created when they selected this tire for us.

Some things we can control, and I'm a firm believer that fuel and tires are easy. See above for tire fix, and my earlier post for fuel fix.

mat

A tire that doesn't have to be shaved and that gives somewhat consistent performance throughout the life would be great. A tire rule that required us to qualify and race on the same tires (expect for rain) might also be worth considering. BFG was walking around the grid last weekend at Road America asking questions and talking to people. Not familiar with their current tire but that's a company that provided tremendous support to racers back in the '90's and had a great product.

Rich Verified Driver
Oh, that's where that is.

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The current R1 is a pretty good tire, supposedly a very very good enduro tire, doesn't need shaved, etc. Could be a good option. Especially if the company has the stones to get behind a bid.

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Rich Wiese

Spec Wrecker Ford

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Maybe the number one requirement for the next test should be the fact that the tire is molded and can't be shaved.

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Paul McLester

Flow Bench Verified Driver
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Wow, how am I ever gonna keep up with you guys? This thing reads like "Gone with the wind"! [scratchchin]

Great committment to the sport one and all for working to keep a level playing field. On this weekend's celebration of this great nation; this SM issue over time is kinda like our country itself. You start out building your program on character, values, courage and moral ethic and end up with judiciary and government controls that will never truly create the environment for which it was originally intended. If it's not fuel it's ECU, or something else. I for one have run the pointy end of the field and don't really enjoy 5th anymore. That said, when I look in the mirror I know I played by the rules and enjoyed the ride. See you at the track!

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Craig Foster #4 Atlanta Region SM Champion 2009, 2010
Delainey Motorsport, LLC
Farnbacher - OPM - East Street Auto - Rogaine

SeanH88
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Be careful what you wish for on tires. If we move to a BFG or Hoosier there will be special compounds for the sprints and runoffs that only a select few will get. You will also be trying to compete with "sponsored" drivers that will get unlimited free tires for the season. This is currently happening today in other classes....

The Toyo may have its issues, but at least everyone is on the same playing field. No one is getting special compounds and very very few are getting free tires.

Personally.... I think we should go to a $45.00 Sears Road Handler.... [Smile]

Flame away.....

wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Sean,
I don't know about BFG, but what you say about Hoosier is not true.
wheel

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by wheel:
Sean,
I don't know about BFG, but what you say about Hoosier is not true.
wheel

What is not true? Free tires or special compounds?

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Special compounds for DOT tires.. Unlimited free tires.....
Both are not part of Hoosier's program. They do provide some free tires, far less now than they used to. They also provide free tires to the top two finishers in national races.

Tom Sager Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by SeanH88:
Be careful what you wish for on tires. If we move to a BFG or Hoosier there will be special compounds for the sprints and runoffs that only a select few will get. You will also be trying to compete with "sponsored" drivers that will get unlimited free tires for the season. This is currently happening today in other classes....

The Toyo may have its issues, but at least everyone is on the same playing field. No one is getting special compounds and very very few are getting free tires.

Personally.... I think we should go to a $45.00 Sears Road Handler.... [Smile]

Flame away.....

In classes where they are competing against other tire brands you might see this. In a spec class with spec tire there wouldn't be a reason for a manufacturer to favor anyone and I'm sure the contract would prohibit that.

Zauskycop Verified Driver
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I agree...Hoosier does NOT put out "special" compounds. I have seen them put out "NEW" compounds that weren't available yet in great supply, so only a few received them...but they were for sale to the general public as soon as the numbers permitted.

Also, think of the at track support we would get from Hoosier, and I would be willing to bet a MUCH better contingency program.

I'm sure it is all a pipe dream...I heard at the last tire test them made all the manufacturers PAY $5000 each just to be permitted to test their tire!

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Tracy Ramsey
Team Blenderblaster

Blake Clements Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Zauskycop:

I'm sure it is all a pipe dream...I heard at the last tire test them made all the manufacturers PAY $5000 each just to be permitted to test their tire!

Was the track rental and cars used at the last test at MSRHouston free? [Confused]

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Blake Clements

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B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
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Wheel, why would it be any different for DOT tires if it came down to competing with other manufacturers? I'm thinking that is still fair game for Hoosier.

-Bruce

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Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E3 and Under 2 liter Overall Champion
Oregon Region SM Class Advisor

wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I tested ASedan tires for Hoosier, when the new A6 and R6 tires came out. They would not allow me to race them, until they were available from the tire distributors, to everyone who wanted them.

B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Zauskycop:
I agree...Hoosier does NOT put out "special" compounds. I have seen them put out "NEW" compounds that weren't available yet in great supply, so only a few received them...but they were for sale to the general public as soon as the numbers permitted.


And the 962 was a production car available to the general public [Wink]

-Bruce

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Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E3 and Under 2 liter Overall Champion
Oregon Region SM Class Advisor

 
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