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Author Topic: Runoffs notes from Jim Daniels
pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
quote:
Originally posted by B(Kuch) Kucera 45:
You can watch a guy in a 99 go through the carousel half throttle while a guy in a 1.6 is flat out,and the 99 still pulls on the 1.6 same lines.
Just thinking out loud ! [scratchchin]

Bob
You know I love ya.. But the exact opposite of this is true? The 1.6 can easily flat the carousel and kink. It is actual the best 1.6 spot on the track, dont believe me, ask Pat and have him quote Shawns best sector and what data report showed and watch Weise video where he kills the 99's there. Not really a debatable point.
Anyone you are comparing to in a 99 that is half throttle is really not worth comparing to?

I will have to back DRAGO, on that one Kuch, That section is the 1.6's strong point at RA. We are lighter and mostly flat or downhill so torque is not working against us. As for the rest of track that is open or discussion [yep]

Pat

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keeping the faith for the 1.6

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Stil out of breth chamP?? That was a 15th to 1st al in 2 lapps...god thats some funy sh^^t.

Help me O per a win a free [rolling on floor laughin] [rolling on floor laughin] [rolling on floor laughin] Rikee Booby [laughing]

Still sitting here in my pee pants!

--------------------
-RA


"Happy birthday, I didn't get you a present...Oh, mom got you one? Well, that's from me then too, unless it's shitty."
9:52 AM Sep 14th, 2009 via web
http://twitter.com/shitmydadsays

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[rolling on floor laughin]

If two cars are equivalent on track but one is 20 years old, I'm building the newer car.

If two cars are equivalent on track and one is less fiddly to tune, I'm building the less fiddly car.

If two cars are equiivalent in lap time and one is a good racecar and the other is a good qualifier, I'm choosing the racecar.

Just glad I was able to keep the 1.6 myth alive long enough to sell mine [rolling on floor laughin] of course the guy who bought it just wanted a proven car to race against his buddies at autobahn which is what he got...

Guys its been time to ditch the multiple engines for a while might as well do it its going to happen via the rules or via the wallet votes either way it will end up a 1.8 spec class at least in National (if National matters enough anyway)

--------------------
Rich Wiese

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B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
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Now now, no ditching the 1.6 motor. The upgrade would be optional for those who are totally wrong about the runoff myth, social proof, or wahtever you want to call it. Those who want to keep the 1.6 get to run the lighter weights and no rp. You can't ditch the 1.6 motor or you ditch the numbers we enjoy in our regional/national run groups. That would essentially split the class, which I think most folks have been clear about not wanting.

-bw

--------------------
Bruce Wilson
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Mark Drennan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Rich:
[rolling on floor laughin]

If two cars are equivalent on track but one is 20 years old, I'm building the newer car.

If two cars are equivalent on track and one is less fiddly to tune, I'm building the less fiddly car.

If two cars are equiivalent in lap time and one is a good racecar and the other is a good qualifier, I'm choosing the racecar.

Just glad I was able to keep the 1.6 myth alive long enough to sell mine [rolling on floor laughin] of course the guy who bought it just wanted a proven car to race against his buddies at autobahn which is what he got...

Guys its been time to ditch the multiple engines for a while might as well do it its going to happen via the rules or via the wallet votes either way it will end up a 1.8 spec class at least in National (if National matters enough anyway)

What about the thousands who have already invested in a 1.6L? If you're already calling the death blow on the 1.6L, then just split the class...who knows, they might actually make a miraculous recovery.

I'd certainly like to see some data analysis on what splitting the class would look like region by region and nationally.

BTW - Of course the 1.6L is faster through the carousel & kink...it's the weight stupid! Different weight + same tire makes racing a frustrating affair. It's like racing a car that's not in your class.

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quote:
Originally posted by Rich:

If two cars are equivalent on track but one is 20 years old, I'm building the newer car.

If two cars are equivalent on track and one is less fiddly to tune, I'm building the less fiddly car.

If two cars are equiivalent in lap time and one is a good racecar and the other is a good qualifier, I'm choosing the racecar.

Agree on all parts, we have 1.6s here in SE that are every bit as fast as our 99s (except at RAtl) but require more time on the dyno and more replacement Mazdacomp diffs to keep competitive. With prices of donor 99s dropping, why would someone build a 1.6 if it's not faster?

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Not sure I agree with that, but that's just the opinion of a guy with a 3 year old 122HP motor and a 8 year old diff.

But what's the point? Not worth the hassle anymore? Split the class then.

-bw

--------------------
Bruce Wilson
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Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex Bolanos:
quote:
Originally posted by Rich:

If two cars are equivalent on track but one is 20 years old, I'm building the newer car.

If two cars are equivalent on track and one is less fiddly to tune, I'm building the less fiddly car.

If two cars are equiivalent in lap time and one is a good racecar and the other is a good qualifier, I'm choosing the racecar.

Agree on all parts, we have 1.6s here in SE that are every bit as fast as our 99s (except at RAtl) but require more time on the dyno and more replacement Mazdacomp diffs to keep competitive. With prices of donor 99s dropping, why would someone build a 1.6 if it's not faster?
And more expensive...
It is a problem for certain... because the court of public opinion says 'well if they were equal people would be building them'
If the 1.6 was equal or even slightly better, IMO, most still dont build a 1.6 as it is the oldest,most expensive to build in competitive trim, the biggest pain in the a$$ and hardest to maintain in top form. For most, they can corner weight a 99 almost perfectly and have little to no ballast in a 1.6 car. It used to make sense as the 1.6 cars were very cheap compared to 99 donors. With 99 donors falling every day, that is no longer the case. Especially since most 90-93 donors are ragged out and need many more parts replaced than most 99's [twocents]
Jim

--------------------
Jim Drago
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Alex Bolanos Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by B Wilson:
Not sure I agree with that, but that's just the opinion of a guy with a 3 year old 122HP motor and a 8 year old diff.

But what's the point? Not worth the hassle anymore? Split the class then.

-bw

121-123hp 1.6s here run with 126-128hp 99s and compete for race wins all the time, not sure why we would split the class... Giving 1.6 owners the option to convert their cars to 1.8s is an inevitable evolution of the class, we can barely even find 1.6 cores to build for motors down here.

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I'm just not sure what you guys are trying to say with the whole cost more discussion... Yes, it might make more sense to build a new 99, but there are a whole lot of 1.6s out there that I hope we're not trying to ignore.

Glad we agree on the 1.8 upgrade [Smile]

-bw

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Let the 1.6s run 99+ headlights.

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quote:
Let the 1.6s run 99+ headlights.
That is clearly the solution!

Does running the wood trim in the interior help?

--------------------
How do I fit this ls7 into my mia... nevermind.

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quote:
Originally posted by mr von charbonneau:

would like this subject ended please start picking on me this sight well be more fun on this subject


Andrew; stay out of this debate, can't pick on you, you are 'meye bes buddy'
... and certifiably insane
[Big Grin]

unsaid throughout this fabulous circle jerk about "parity" was the little fact the pole dude was turning race lap times at 4.6 sec !! off his qually times, while everyone else starting P-3 on back was running 2.0 sec off their qually times (2.0 - 2.3 sec) ... including the 1.6 which finished 10th.
Don't give me the Tues AM cool weather excuse as he ran a low 43 on a warm Wednesday ... the other front row dude was 3.6 sec off his Qually time!
??? which 'set up' will be run by the front guys at the next Natl race ???
bottom line: the 1.6 is really and truly 2.0 sec per lap off the front pace at RA ... no how, no way does a 'legal' 1.6 find a solo 44 at RA, not even with 'mi bes buddy' wheelin & dealin it.
Steyn; can i borrow your suit?? and please return Andrew's thong, he shares it with "friends" like Chippy ...
[Big Grin]

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the 1.6 may be more expensive to build to a competitive level, more difficult to tune, to set up, to drive, and it may even be "equal" at most other tracks ... but at the one race a year that counts it dont have a chance in hell.
Acknowledge that first, then say it's not in the best interests of the overall class to make changes to accomodate it.

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quote:
Originally posted by guest driver:
the 1.6 may be more expensive to build to a competitive level, more difficult to tune, to set up, to drive, and it may even be "equal" at most other tracks ... but at the one race a year that counts it dont have a chance in hell.
Acknowledge that first, then say it's not in the best interests of the overall class to make changes to accomodate it.

That will never happen, it is always driver and prep [Embarrassed] [Sleep]

Although driver and prep seem to be okay on the flat tracks [Eek!]


Pat

--------------------
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quote:
Originally posted by guest driver:

unsaid throughout this fabulous circle jerk about "parity" was the little fact the pole dude was turning race lap times at 4.6 sec !! off his qually times, while everyone else starting P-3 on back was running 2.0 sec off their qually times (2.0 - 2.3 sec) ... including the 1.6 which finished 10th.
Don't give me the Tues AM cool weather excuse as he ran a low 43 on a warm Wednesday ... the other front row dude was 3.6 sec off his Qually time!
??? which 'set up' will be run by the front guys at the next Natl race ???

It has been said if you read between the lines. Mr Charb has mentioned " electrical problems" a few times now making me question if he believes they even existed. Others said the pace of the front guys was 'slow". Seems strange to many that a guy that could turn 42.8 on his first hot lap in qualifying trim, basically turning it on at will but not be able to pull a gap in the race? At that speed, he should have left the field by Turn 3. [Confused]
J~

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quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
quote:
Originally posted by guest driver:
the 1.6 may be more expensive to build to a competitive level, more difficult to tune, to set up, to drive, and it may even be "equal" at most other tracks ... but at the one race a year that counts it dont have a chance in hell.
Acknowledge that first, then say it's not in the best interests of the overall class to make changes to accomodate it.

That will never happen, it is always driver and prep [Embarrassed] [Sleep]

Although driver and prep seem to be okay on the flat tracks [Eek!]


Pat

Pat
If you want a real answer Pat... Pack that prep level and driver and head to any flat track in the SE. Sebring Double national is a really good choice in January and see how you really stack up. I don't think the results will look anything like Cen Div,Great Lakes and Mid Div.. Where there is one or maybe two other good drivers besides Shawn. Holding teh fastest 1.6 crown will likely not hapen either. Buras and a few others will be way out front. Not bustin your chops or insulting, the competition is just that much better down there, it is what it is. [thumbsup] A top ten finish would not be easy and to be honest at that race, doubtful. It is that tough. That is why SE drivers always do so well at the big events. While I race there a lot, I am not a SE driver either. ( They wont have me) [Big Grin]

--------------------
Jim Drago
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quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
quote:
Originally posted by guest driver:
the 1.6 may be more expensive to build to a competitive level, more difficult to tune, to set up, to drive, and it may even be "equal" at most other tracks ... but at the one race a year that counts it dont have a chance in hell.
Acknowledge that first, then say it's not in the best interests of the overall class to make changes to accomodate it.

That will never happen, it is always driver and prep [Embarrassed] [Sleep]

Although driver and prep seem to be okay on the flat tracks [Eek!]


Pat

My new favorite reason the 99's are the CTH, the cars are newer and therefore more predictable, reliable, cheaper to build....has nothing to do with 102 vs 119 torque numbers. Look at the classifieds, the 1.6 regularly sell for under 10k and new 99 builds are upwards of 30k. I can afford alot of dyno time for 20k.

Some folks has given multiple reasons to build 99's and multiple reasons why not to build 1.6. I understand some folks will never make weight in a 1.6 so they are not likely to be advocates for the 1.6.

I believe a majority of the class drives a 1.6, so lets not try to make the 1.6 cheaper to build and more competative by reducing the torque advantage of the 99. Lets keep making the 99 more reliable, more HP and just add weight. So everyone that has a 1.6 should see the light and build a 99 or find another class.

--------------------
Michael Ross

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Jim, no doubt the SE is the best competition around,but, why do I have to go down there, when they should be coming to the runoffs. It would be nice to have some top flite 1.6 cars to run with. 1.6 @ RA has no one to draft with.

Pat

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
quote:
Originally posted by guest driver:
the 1.6 may be more expensive to build to a competitive level, more difficult to tune, to set up, to drive, and it may even be "equal" at most other tracks ... but at the one race a year that counts it dont have a chance in hell.
Acknowledge that first, then say it's not in the best interests of the overall class to make changes to accomodate it.

That will never happen, it is always driver and prep [Embarrassed] [Sleep]

Although driver and prep seem to be okay on the flat tracks [Eek!]


Pat

Pat
If you want a real answer Pat... Pack that prep level and driver and head to any flat track in the SE. Sebring Double national is a really good choice in January and see how you really stack up. I don't think the results will look anything like Cen Div,Great Lakes and Mid Div.. Where there is one or maybe two other good drivers besides Shawn. Holding teh fastest 1.6 crown will likely not hapen either. Buras and a few others will be way out front. Not bustin your chops or insulting, the competition is just that much better down there, it is what it is. [thumbsup] A top ten finish would not be easy and to be honest at that race, doubtful. It is that tough. That is why SE drivers always do so well at the big events. While I race there a lot, I am not a SE driver either. ( They wont have me) [Big Grin]

damn thats some fine David Copperfield slight of hand going on there Jim ...
yes, 1.6's are competetive at Sebring, but so what? That race don't mean you're Nat Champion.
Further, if any 'outsider' was actually foolish enough to beat the '99's of Chippy, Danny, von c, etc at the Sebring Nat next January ...
they would get themselves protested out da wazoo, go home with the entire car in boxes...
and probably with Dairy Queen initials besides their name on the final results. Same deal goes for Rd Atl and VIR.
now, at PBIR, Homestead and Daytona, yeah, maybe a T.Bee ultra fast gun in a 1.6 can win. But an out of Division dude? ... and survive "vengeance is mine" protests at tech... ain't never seen it done, by anyone, ever.

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First of all, you go where the competition is IMO if you want to get better.

But in this example... It is a flat track. My feeling is the problem is the competition, not the track. You feel it is track specific issue. Sebring is 4 miles, basically Road America with a few more turns and no hills. I think the total elevation change is about 18 inches [Big Grin] More challenging IMO. So if your correct, you should shine there. I suspect that won't be the case as competition there is no softer than the runoffs or Sprints for me. I race the same guys. I think that is part of the reason that so many from SE do well . Competition is tough there. As much as it pains me to say it, the same goes for SW and the boys from Texas.

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
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No doubt running against the best pushes you harder. I following the WKA Man Cup national tour in karting with a couple of good drivers and it brings out the best in the driver and the prep of the kart.

I wish I could travel to SE races, it would certainly make us better preped for driver and car. Can't find money, time off etc. Have to plod along with what we have.

Pat

--------------------
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quote:
Originally posted by guest driver:
/QUOTE]damn thats some fine David Copperfield slight of hand going on there Jim ...
yes, 1.6's are competetive at Sebring, but so what? That race don't mean you're Nat Champion.
Further, if any 'outsider' was actually foolish enough to beat the '99's of Chippy, Danny, von c, etc at the Sebring Nat next January ...
they would get themselves protested out da wazoo, go home with the entire car in boxes...
and probably with Dairy Queen initials besides their name on the final results. Same deal goes for Rd Atl and VIR.

When was the last Protest ever at Sebring? I think it was us in 07 and it went away after 7500 bond tt look at a head? Never seen one at Road Atlanta or VIR?

We say the 1.6 can't win at road America, because two or three guys, none of whom have tuurned a competitive lap in a 1.6 miata at Road America in last 5 years if ever? Data shows otherwise, but that doesnt matter... Weise who raced me door to door for years and was top five at sprints both times he attended... well taht doesnt matter either. Weise showed video evidence showing the opposite of the claims... doesnt matter. I'm bored today, so I am entertaining my self [Big Grin] But I will let you guys have it from here. I probably posted too much already.
Point is... if you can't beat(most)of the best on a flat track(Sebring), why would you expect to beat all of the best at the Runoffs?

--------------------
Jim Drago
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Protests?? remember 'bled on by Burt' at Sebring, a few years ago?? i do ...
and yes, that '07 protest you referred to was a classic example of a fast new 1.6 SM on the receiving end of a 'will not permit you' protest ...
fast foward to this January, 2010, not even the 1.6 hotrod from cape coral driven by their fearless leader or even by the von himself ...
is 'permitted' to win the Sebring Natl.
i'm bored too,
[Smile]

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quote:
Originally posted by guest driver:
Protests?? remember 'bled on by Burt' at Sebring, a few years ago?? i do ...
[Smile]

That was circa 2005 [Big Grin]

--------------------
Jim Drago
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i know, i was there, that protest 'permitted' me to run my best SM race in the old blueberry ...

btw, the Sebring track is 3.7 miles long not 4.0 miles, that's why you didn't win earlier this year, you were driving the 'old'circuit
[Big Grin] [flamed]
another big difference (other than completely flat) is that Sebring has three 5th gear straights to RA's two and you can set up draft passes much easier into T-1, the Hairpin, T-10, 17, heck a bunch of places compared to RA's just one?? The 1.6 can defend itself much better.
But ... you're still not permitted to win, the SEDIV Big 3 programs don't like no Division 2 team showing them up at their house, ...

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and you ...
are the exception, sorta like a Notre Dame (back in the day ND that is), where you can 'play' anywhere you want out of Division, you're always invited, always welcome and always win ... or be competitive!
[thumbsup]

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
Competition is tough there. As much as it pains me to say it, the same goes for SW and the boys from Texas.[/QB]

I heard your coming here next year to join the fun?

I also heard the only thing legal in SE are the tires?

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quote:
Originally posted by taylorf:
quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
Competition is tough there. As much as it pains me to say it, the same goes for SW and the boys from Texas.

I heard your coming here next year to join the fun?

I also heard the only thing legal in SE are the tires? [/QB]

See above Notre dame post! [Big Grin] ... I want to do TWS next year and Watkins Glen. atleast one. that is if I dont quit by then. [Big Grin]

Cars seem pretty legal now at the front, same guys seem to show up with same power big race or small... but back when I started... Sebring grid seeemed like an F1 staging area! [rolling on floor laughin] [nope] [duck]

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

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more like a NHRA lane staging area, funny cars everywhere ... 12.0 compression, piggybacks, plates?? we don't need no stinkin plates ... ah, the good ole days
[rolling on floor laughin] [duck] [yep]
but, today, see Mac 's sig, seems like dem Longhorns took over the honor of 'run what ya brung'.
Please note the squeaky clean SEDIV racers top ten results at the RunOffs, starting with the the drinkin moonshine out of a diaphragm while wearing a WWI fighter pilots leather skull cap, smokin a cigar that was inserted where? [Eek!] dude that finished pee 1!
[Smile]
soooo many stories ...

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quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
Jim, no doubt the SE is the best competition around,but, why do I have to go down there, when they should be coming to the runoffs. It would be nice to have some top flite 1.6 cars to run with. 1.6 @ RA has no one to draft with.

Pat

I could build a 1.6L car that could win also, but i don't think it would pass at the runoffs....Hint Hint

Only 1 1.6L car has been torn down in the last 3 years....and it was yours at the sprints = DQ. The reason they don't go to the runoffs is.........tech


Edited: Not directed at my division or any other, nor specific individuals, just sayin...

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

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Ouch!

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
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mr von charbonneau
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my love for a 1.6 but remember if you split

this will happen dont forget the past 1.6,1.8,99

MAZDA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqUG6YBgLAw&feature=related

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quote:
Originally posted by mat pombo:

Pat [/qb]

I could build a 1.6L car that could win also, but i don't think it would pass at the runoffs....Hint Hint

Only 1 1.6L car has been torn down in the last 3 years....and it was yours at the sprints = DQ. The reason they don't go to the runoffs is.........tech


Edited: Not directed at my division or any other, nor specific individuals, just sayin... [/QB][/QUOTE]


or put another way Doc;
the reason the top 1.6's across the land do not go to the RunOffs is not SCCA tech ... it's all the '99 drivers that will protest the beejesus out of it ... instant disdain for the red haired stepchild.
SCCA tech shed legal can be accomplished, race stewards write the 'check & inspect' sheet for impound days before the race, but one cannot fool the magicians at the show, enough paper by '99 racers will be written, no one can pass that type of endoscopy without them finding something.
This all changes of course if you were to show up with your up front 1.6, the gorilla shows up with a new DDG built 1.6, along with an E Street Band 1.6, mr von c in Jeffie's hotrod 1.6, T. Bee in his and 1-2 more established fast dudes, that changes the entire dynamics of the 'games'.
The '99's instantly become the blue haired stepchild that will be crucified.
things that make you go [scratchchin]

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So what was the story with ECUs (and several wiring harnesses) in qual versus the race? I heard something like 46 of you guys were running cheater ECUs from the same vendor until DDG/Gorilla called you out.

--------------------
-Cy
Supported by LTD Racing & Speed Shack - New England's Premier Auto Accessory Store
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hey cp sorry you didnt get the memo ecus out for 10 years SSB and sm my ecu taped for race

waz up

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HOT ROD PERFORMANCE - Holley and Edelbrock carbs and manifolds, Flowmaster mufflers, Comp cams, power programmers, K&N cold air intake kits and filters, Mr. Gasket, Lakewood, Mickey Thompson tires, MSD ignition, Hooker headers...all the brands you need and want. hummm

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by CP:
So what was the story with ECUs (and several wiring harnesses) in qual versus the race? I heard something like 46 of you guys were running cheater ECUs from the same vendor until DDG/Gorilla called you out.

The best way to maximize my prep was to have the ECUs removed from all the others cars... I was glad to see them push the issue as it helped me as well as my car was tuned within 1 hp/1 ft lb legally of any of remapped ECU's that I have tested. By all accounts DDG is a sharp guy and knows the same things I do and more. I am not so naive to think their motives were quite as noble as they may have appeared to some from the outside looking in. [Roll Eyes] They wanted to keep their advantage by insuring others couldn't have the same advantage through a remapped ECU.
Jim

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
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EAST STREET RACING

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+67

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ECUs have already become old school! All the crying about them was for not as some did not lose power running stock ECUs for the runoffs. As Drago said (or implied) removing ECUs only hurt those that could not achieve the same results through legal means.

--------------------
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mr von charbonneau
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+76

Rich Verified Driver
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W
I
E
S
E

I before e except after c

I didn't take my 1.6 to the road america runoffs because I was scared it would snow

--------------------
Rich Wiese

Spec Wrecker Ford

Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by guest driver:

another big difference (other than completely flat) is that Sebring has three 5th gear straights to RA's two

Hey Carlos - we normally agree on most things but wanted to take issue with this (for no particular reason). You have it backwards

At Sebring we use 5th on the back straight, and barely get into 5th on the front straight, but at Road America we are in 5th for extended periods on the front straight, the back straight leading to T5 and the back straight leading to T12

--------------------
Danny
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OPM Autosports | Traqmate | Rossini Racing Engines
2010 June Sprints Champ, 2010 ARRC SMX Champ
2009 SARRC Champ, 2009 SEDiv ECR Champ, 2009 FES Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by guest driver:
another big difference (other than completely flat) is that Sebring has three 5th gear straights to RA's two and you can set up draft passes much easier into T-1, the Hairpin, T-10, 17, heck a bunch of places compared to RA's just one?? The 1.6 can defend itself much better.
[/QB]

Danny;
at Sebring, in a 1.6, you hit 5th,
on the front straight waay before the bridge,
coming out of big ben waay before the bridge,
on the back straight about half way down, waay before the brake markers.
1.6 can defend itself much better at Sebring than at RA.
Still, no way a 1.6 gets into the 36's like you, Chip, Blake, etc did in your '99's. No way as in 'legally' that is.

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quote:
Originally posted by mr von charbonneau:
HOT ROD PERFORMANCE - Holley and Edelbrock carbs and manifolds, Flowmaster mufflers, Comp cams, power programmers, K&N cold air intake kits and filters, Mr. Gasket, Lakewood, Mickey Thompson tires, MSD ignition, Hooker headers...all the brands you need and want. hummm

touche ... "hummm" point taken ... you're right.
"hot rod" = old school = old goats like me.
Jeffie is much too smart for old school hot rods,
please revise and edit to say;
Jeffie's 'Skunk-works' 1.6 ; there, much more high tech and advanced.
[Wink]

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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I agree with Danny... No one was in the 39's for YEARS!!!! Same cars, same drivers.. Then seconds came of in a few months. Good 99's had been there for three years, and in one 6 month period the record fell over 3 seconds. It was track and or conditions, not cars IMO

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
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EAST STREET RACING

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Carlos

Spending 20 minutes after each post deciphering what you said I usually agree, but the 5th gear thing at Sebring I have to dis-agree. The front straight away, going into turn one you have a split second of 5th gear, at least in my 1.6. I never make into 5th again until going back into 17. Sorry Bro. [thumbsup]

--------------------
[URL=http://www.toddburas.com]
//East Street Auto//Traqmate//SafeRacer//

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hahlow T. Bee;
you most definitely need a new motor
[Big Grin]
the ole 1.6 blueberry (117.8 hp ?) would see 5th for 4 sec on the front straight (flat waaay past the bridge till the 5th orange cone), 3 sec out of big ben leading into the hairpin and 5 sec on the back straight (flat till the paddock out in 17).
and i was a slow slug!
Rob May in 1.6's would see 5th for longer periods.
This is for 55 degree or below ambient air conditions (November or January).
best,
CG

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Carlos
on my lap record day, since beaten by Chip, in that wonderful crisp cool weather, I barely touched the rev limiter in my '99 coming into T7. The '99 rev limiter kicks in at 7,000RPM, while on the 1.6, in most cars it comes on at 7,200. Like Todd says you never get 5th coming into T7.

Whereas at Road America, you are FULLY in 5th gear on all three straights but especially the latter two.

Just FYI

But back to the topic at hand -

IMHO the 1.6 needs help at Road America - I agree with this statement.

BUT the problem then becomes is that it will have an unfair advantage on many other tracks where its significant handling advantage and tire wear advantage will be boossted by whatever help is given..

In the past two years I have seen the 1.6 compete with, win, and in some cases dominate some of the best '99s in the country on several tracks here in the SE.

Sure Todd is one helluva driver, but in my opinion his car is competitive and the car driver combo can win on several tracks.

Roebling
Barber
CMP
Daytona
Sebring

Even at VIR Cliffy Chains 1.6 was difficult to pass in the hands of Rene (not a regular SM driver)

In terms of SE tracks I think the 1.6 struggles more at Road Atlanta with the three uphill sections than any other place

Only Todd, Cliffie and their engine builders know if their cars are legal or not.

IN closing

I do not think that this is something that can be solved.

There are many who beleive that there 1.6 car is the reason that they are back in 10th. I am not so sure.

What really blew me away was watching DDG every day at the Runoffs, measuring the relative humidity, dew point, temp, track temps, then putting Steves car on the dyno BEFORE the session (Q1, Q2 Q3 and the race day) and swapping out a variety of MAF sensors to tune the car for the conditions that would be encountered on the track in the next hour.

I can only speak for the SE but If I look at the prep of the cars in the SE, and I look at the players, I know the level of tuning and prep going on with Tucker, Labounty, Charbonneau, Brown, Van Vurst, myself and others, and I do not see the same level on any other 1.6 other than on Buras, "Chains" and to some extent on the Pombo 1.6 (for a while)

I beleive that there might be some room to play with furhter equalization, but i FIRMLY beleive that if you make the 1.6 competitive at Road America, it will be the Car to Have in the SE for some time to come.

Tough decision for ALL

--------------------
Danny
http://www.dannysteyn.com
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OPM Autosports | Traqmate | Rossini Racing Engines
2010 June Sprints Champ, 2010 ARRC SMX Champ
2009 SARRC Champ, 2009 SEDiv ECR Champ, 2009 FES Champ
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Alex Bolanos Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny Steyn:
Carlos
on my lap record day, since beaten by Chip, in that wonderful crisp cool weather, I barely touched the rev limiter in my '99 coming into T7. The '99 rev limiter kicks in at 7,000RPM, while on the 1.6, in most cars it comes on at 7,200. Like Todd says you never get 5th coming into T7.

Whereas at Road America, you are FULLY in 5th gear on all three straights but especially the latter two.

Just FYI

Agreed, none of the 1.6s I've driven hit fifth on the front straight or going into the hairpin... Was this back in the Hoosierdaddy SM6 days? Maybe your exit speed out of 5 and 17 is the reason?

 
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