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Author Topic: BOD decisions on 2011 rules changes
Jamie Tucker Series Champ

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I can see no reason why the OPTIONAL suspension update was not approved either. Even if no performance is gained it would allow for a larger parts supply for the owners of 1.6s. Of course I did not understand why some 1.6 owners were against it in the first place.

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
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2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
It would be pretty silly IMO to run computer for 1/1 gain when you can detect with OBD2 scanner? But I dont think they wil go away, but neither will ported heads etc.
Jim [/QB]

OBD2 ?
Obie wan Canobie is old school, am told any hip hippie can out Jedi mind trick that old tin box
[Wink]
1/1 today, 2/1 tomorrow?? 3/2 by spring ???
so hints a certain smart fair haired skinny fellow with thousands of dyno hours, used to live near Atlanta ...
so be it,that's the circle of racing life.
my disclaimer: whaddup with my new 1.6??
can't drop the weight, can't take off a plate, what to do? Extinction is such an ugly word ...

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by guest driver:
quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
It would be pretty silly IMO to run computer for 1/1 gain when you can detect with OBD2 scanner? But I dont think they wil go away, but neither will ported heads etc.
Jim

OBD2 ?
Obie wan Canobie is old school, am told any hip hippie can out Jedi mind trick that old tin box
[Wink]
1/1 today, 2/1 tomorrow?? 3/2 by spring ???
so hints a certain smart fair haired skinny fellow with thousands of dyno hours, used to live near Atlanta ...
so be it,that's the circle of racing life.
my disclaimer: whaddup with my new 1.6??
can't drop the weight, can't put on a plate, what to do? Extinction is such an ugly word ... [/QB]

Carlos
Camber is open, why dont you run 8 degrees? At some point too much is not a positive right? When someone makes 3/3 more with a Mazda computer rempapped, let me know, I'll buy you a new set of Toyos [Big Grin] What are you sending me when it doesnt happen? [yep] I'll give you a season? what do ya say?

As far as your 1.6? I dont know? How about race it rather than take the word of many who couldnt win in a 99 with no plate and most who dont even run? [Wink] Until you get it out and run for yourself, not much makes sense does it? You are certainly a qualified driver, run the car and make your on decisions.
Jim

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

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OK Jim, will have a coke (mountain dew) and a smile, shut my yap up and just drive.
i know where you live though, to pick up my free Toyos next year
[Big Grin]

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quote:
Originally posted by davew:
I use factory style fuel lines and fittings. The fuel sample port is built into the regulator, so you can attach a gauge easily.Dave

A fuel test port that also works as a fuel pressure regulator... I thought you were going to come up with something new? [Roll Eyes] [duck]

--------------------
"I've got 5 kids... here there are hundreds"

Mike Tesch
Go Time Racing LLC

Mike LL
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian Ghidinelli:
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Lyon:
From my understanding, the open timing/fuel pressure primarily helps the 99+ cars, which were the HP kings to start with. Sounds like the powers that be want the masses to start moving to the NB's. [twocents]

Horsepower:
99s: 2450#/127hp = 19.29#/hp
1.8s: 2375#/125hp = 19.0#/hp
1.6s: 2285#/123hp = 18.58#/hp
~ 3.6% sprea

Torque:
99s: 2450#/119ft-lbs = 20.59#/ft-lbs
1.8s: 2375#/114ft-lbs = 20.83#/ft-lbs
1.6s: 2285#/108ft-lbs = 21.16#/ft-lbs
~ 2.7% spread

wow 123 hp and 108 tq
i've got some work to do [Confused]

--------------------
Mike Lliteras
Sponsor, Mechanic, Owner and Dad
NASA FL

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
quote:
Originally posted by guest driver:
quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
It would be pretty silly IMO to run computer for 1/1 gain when you can detect with OBD2 scanner? But I dont think they wil go away, but neither will ported heads etc.
Jim

OBD2 ?
Obie wan Canobie is old school, am told any hip hippie can out Jedi mind trick that old tin box
[Wink]
1/1 today, 2/1 tomorrow?? 3/2 by spring ???
so hints a certain smart fair haired skinny fellow with thousands of dyno hours, used to live near Atlanta ...
so be it,that's the circle of racing life.
my disclaimer: whaddup with my new 1.6??
can't drop the weight, can't put on a plate, what to do? Extinction is such an ugly word ...

Carlos
Camber is open, why dont you run 8 degrees? At some point too much is not a positive right? When someone makes 3/3 more with a Mazda computer rempapped, let me know, I'll buy you a new set of Toyos [Big Grin] What are you sending me when it doesnt happen? [yep] I'll give you a season? what do ya say?

As far as your 1.6? I dont know? How about race it rather than take the word of many who couldnt win in a 99 with no plate and most who dont even run? [Wink] Until you get it out and run for yourself, not much makes sense does it? You are certainly a qualified driver, run the car and make your on decisions.
Jim [/QB]

All I can say is in the last year we have seen very little increase in power; if any on the 99s. A slotted wheel and fuel pressure is not going to make any difference for the front runners and will only help those that do not know how to get the power otherwise. Most agree that any of the cars can win at most tracks so if you are not running up front please just keep on blaming those evil 99s and not your driving or prep abilities.

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian Ghidinelli:
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Lyon:
From my understanding, the open timing/fuel pressure primarily helps the 99+ cars, which were the HP kings to start with. Sounds like the powers that be want the masses to start moving to the NB's. [twocents]

Horsepower:
99s: 2450#/127hp = 19.29#/hp
1.8s: 2375#/125hp = 19.0#/hp
1.6s: 2285#/123hp = 18.58#/hp
~ 3.6% spread

Torque:
99s: 2450#/119ft-lbs = 20.59#/ft-lbs
1.8s: 2375#/114ft-lbs = 20.83#/ft-lbs
1.6s: 2285#/108ft-lbs = 21.16#/ft-lbs
~ 2.7% spread

Ok where did these HP numbers come from. I haven't seen anything like that from my 1.6, I keep hearing about it, my engine builder says, not legally. I will be happy to give a $500.00 bonus to anyone who can tune my 1.6 to 123/108 legally. Dyno jet SAE correction please and POG

Pat

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

Dwayne Hoover Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
quote:
Originally posted by Brian Ghidinelli:
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Lyon:
From my understanding, the open timing/fuel pressure primarily helps the 99+ cars, which were the HP kings to start with. Sounds like the powers that be want the masses to start moving to the NB's. [twocents]

Horsepower:
99s: 2450#/127hp = 19.29#/hp
1.8s: 2375#/125hp = 19.0#/hp
1.6s: 2285#/123hp = 18.58#/hp
~ 3.6% spread

Torque:
99s: 2450#/119ft-lbs = 20.59#/ft-lbs
1.8s: 2375#/114ft-lbs = 20.83#/ft-lbs
1.6s: 2285#/108ft-lbs = 21.16#/ft-lbs
~ 2.7% spread

Ok where did these HP numbers come from. I haven't seen anything like that from my 1.6, I keep hearing about it, my engine builder says, not legally. I will be happy to give a $500.00 bonus to anyone who can tune my 1.6 to 123/108 legally. Dyno jet SAE correction please and POG

Pat

$500 to give away $3500-$5000 of R/D and give you an increased chance at $1000s of contingency? [Wink] Naw ... you gotta buy the whole car ... [Smile]


123/108 in a 1.6 is less of a stretch legally than 127/119 in a 99. However, to get that in a 99 all you need are loose morals (but in a good Christian way) ... with a 1.6 it takes hard work and money and brain power you should be devoting to something more important.

What the dissenters miss about this thread is the "rules change" doesn't help a damn person except the people that are already behind the prep curve. It is a gift to the slowest 85%, but they are too ______ to realize it. It took McClughanGate to get enough public support to do what should have been done years ago (just like it took TwoThousandDollarClutchGate to get a clutch spec).

--------------------
Visit the Midland City Arts Festival!

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Any word on if the 94-97 owners will be able to take that 25# that we added mid year? I lost weight and either need to fill the gas to the brim, bolt more to the floor, or eat more unhealthy foods.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

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Dwayne, I knew no one was going to tune my car up for $500.00. I wouldn't either, but it was worth a try. I hear all the time from a 99 builder that 127/119 is no problem with a top 99 atleast on the east side of the country.

Pat

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

Z-MAN Verified Driver
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A poor decision in my opinion...

NA participation is down... 99's dominate at the big dance and at the majority of the tracks and now because the cheaters found a way to cheat better then the tech guys can tech we just make it legal... That makes no sense to me at all...

And all this did was make legal 99's faster while keeeping the rest of us pretty much the same...

That means that the guys that wouldn't run a re-flashed ECU (because they had some integrety) can now legally add a little HP and a little torgue and if you were fighting with them before now you'll get to watch them pull you down the straight.

One thing that might have been able to help the NA cars compete was opposed by the very guys that it was going to help - that's what I can't believe... If you didn't want to do the OPTIONAL mod fine don't do it - but, you're already racing the guys in the 99's that have a different suspension so why would you care if guys in NA cars ran the the same suspension as the 99's?

I'm not at all happy with the direction we are going - the 99's just got faster legally and the rest of us stayed the same.

Mark Zwolle

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Keith
The first post of mine to start the thread

The SMAC has their first post Runoffs meeting this Wednesday night and they will discuss the 2011 season and the 2010 Runoffs.

Pat
You are making the case against the 1.6. Everyone seems to know what the car makes legally except for you? Since YOU cant get there, everyone else is cheating and the car needs help.. Same story last year. Dare I say Shawn was closer to the front than he even deserved with the numbers you had? Where would Shawn been with 122/107?

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Z-MAN:
I'm not at all happy with the direction we are going - the 99's just got faster legally and the rest of us stayed the same.

Mark Zwolle

Patience Mark... give us a chance.

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

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quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
Any word on if the 94-97 owners will be able to take that 25# that we added mid year? I lost weight and either need to fill the gas to the brim, bolt more to the floor, or eat more unhealthy foods.

Drink more beer! [yep]

--------------------
Kim

91 BRG SMT RIP
06 MX-5 Cup

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Ken SM-94 Verified Driver
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I'm glad the 1.6 didn't get the suspension upgrades.

It would have only made it harder for the 1.6's to defect at a later date.

I say do whatever you want to the '99 and leave the 1.6 alone!

Ken

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
Keith
The first post of mine to start the thread

The SMAC has their first post Runoffs meeting this Wednesday night and they will discuss the 2011 season and the 2010 Runoffs.

Pat
You are making the case against the 1.6. Everyone seems to know what the car makes legally except for you? Since YOU cant get there, everyone else is cheating and the car needs help.. Same story last year. Dare I say Shawn was closer to the front than he even deserved with the numbers you had? Where would Shawn been with 122/107?

Jim,

If it was that easy to get or possible to get, you would think I would have stumbled upon it at some point. Even a blind squirrel get an acorn once in a while. I have had a few good engine builders tune on my car. If that is what you need, it shouldn't be that hard to find, is all I am saying. Maybe the Dyno's read lower here than elsewhere. I don't believe the dyno at the Runoffs were reading that high compared to the numbers bantied about. Just sayin. And I am not saying anyone is cheating, but if they had them they didn't bring them to the runoffs. I they had 5 more HP than us they should have cleaned up.

Pat

Pat

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

Steven Holloway Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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That's where the "OPTIONAL" part came in.

You don't want to update, then don't.

Many of us wanted the choice to spend OUR OWN money to upgrade. Our own individual choice.

It's kind of like saying you don't want a spiffy enclosed trailer with A/C, so nobody should have a spiffy enclosed trailer with A/C. Well guess what? I bought a spiffy trailer with A/C with my own money, you STILL don't have to get one. Interesting concept, this freedom of choice thing, huh?

Defect to where? Regional only? No thanks!!

--------------------
If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's got electrical problems.

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Holloway:
That's where the "OPTIONAL" part came in.

You don't want to update, then don't.

Many of us wanted the choice to spend OUR OWN money to upgrade. Our own individual choice.


IMHO: If perception was that is was required to go faster then it's 'optional' status was bogus.

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
Keith
The first post of mine to start the thread

The SMAC has their first post Runoffs meeting this Wednesday night and they will discuss the 2011 season and the 2010 Runoffs.

Pat
You are making the case against the 1.6. Everyone seems to know what the car makes legally except for you? Since YOU cant get there, everyone else is cheating and the car needs help.. Same story last year. Dare I say Shawn was closer to the front than he even deserved with the numbers you had? Where would Shawn been with 122/107?

Jim,

If it was that easy to get or possible to get, you would think I would have stumbled upon it at some point. Even a blind squirrel get an acorn once in a while. I have had a few good engine builders tune on my car. If that is what you need, it shouldn't be that hard to find, is all I am saying. Maybe the Dyno's read lower here than elsewhere. I don't believe the dyno at the Runoffs were reading that high compared to the numbers bantied about. Just sayin. And I am not saying anyone is cheating, but if they had them they didn't bring them to the runoffs. I they had 5 more HP than us they should have cleaned up.

Pat

Pat

With all due respect, No, you shouldnt just stumble on it and no one said it was easy? The best cars in the class are not stumbled upon and. It sucks, it is expensive and a lot of times you roll the dice and crap out. Is it fair, hell no. But it is what it is.

And you know Dewayne is Mark right?
Jim

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

Steven Holloway Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by John Mueller:
IMHO: If perception was that is was required to go faster then it's 'optional' status was bogus. [/QB]

You mean like Data Aq, pro motors, thinner shaves on tires, fresh shocks, scales/good setups...
Shall I continue?

All these make you faster, IF you so choose.

I just want to choose for myself.

--------------------
If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's got electrical problems.

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quote:
That's where the "OPTIONAL" part came in.

You don't want to update, then don't.

Many of us wanted the choice to spend OUR OWN money to upgrade. Our own individual choice.

It's kind of like saying you don't want a spiffy enclosed trailer with A/C, so nobody should have a spiffy enclosed trailer with A/C. Well guess what? I bought a spiffy trailer with A/C with my own money, you STILL don't have to get one. Interesting concept, this freedom of choice thing, huh?

Defect to where? Regional only? No thanks!!



Thanks for puting the "optional" in caps because I didn't really understand it before.

I love the brilliant minds that tell the 1.6 guys that they don't have to be competitive if they don't want to. Thanks for that!

Can't wait to hear what you have to say when the only option left is to allow the '99 engines in the early cars. ( I know we won't HAVE to do that either)

Ken

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quote:
Originally posted by John Mueller:
quote:
Originally posted by Z-MAN:
I'm not at all happy with the direction we are going - the 99's just got faster legally and the rest of us stayed the same.

Mark Zwolle

Patience Mark... give us a chance.
Why, you do not seem to want others to have the opportunity to replace 20 year old worn out parts with newer used parts. Instead, I now have to spend over $1,000 to buy brand new yet old style parts. Thus guaranteeing the 99+ will be faster in both the straights and the corners. And I will be poorer for my efforts. Thanks for all of your help so far, can't wait for what is next. Maybe all 1.6 have to use a stock air box in order to save even more money? How about all 1.6 have to use stock 14 x 5.5 inch wheels, that will save even more.

In my area, a super quick check had 99+ style K members with steering rack for under $300. With a little shopping, I'm sure it could be found cheaper. Plus, I already checked, the pre 99 control arms fit.

--------------------
"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
~Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
~Thomas Jefferson

Ken SM-94 Verified Driver
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quote:
You mean like Data Aq, pro motors, thinner shaves on tires, fresh shocks, scales/good setups...
I do all that already...

quote:
Shall I continue?


No, please stop!!

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quote:
Originally posted by John Mueller:
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Holloway:
That's where the "OPTIONAL" part came in.

You don't want to update, then don't.

Many of us wanted the choice to spend OUR OWN money to upgrade. Our own individual choice.


IMHO: If perception was that is was required to go faster then it's 'optional' status was bogus.
Hey John, we never meet and do not mean to rag on you, but I just realized you are the new NASA SM director. Please reconsider the direction you are going. If you keep this up, in a couple of years SM will be like FV, at least in my area, 3 maybe 4 FV show up for a double national. The 3 or 4 guys have a great time in there 1950's era time machine but no one new wants to join them. Is that really the direction you want to take SM?

--------------------
"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
~Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
~Thomas Jefferson

Ken SM-94 Verified Driver
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Funny, I was just thinking about replacing my old worn out subframe....that's really weird!!

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Holloway:

You mean like Data Aq, pro motors, thinner shaves on tires, fresh shocks, scales/good setups...
Shall I continue?

Steve, I get where you are coming from but none of these are in the rules as optional.

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Steven Holloway Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I agree, that in a perfect world, the 99's would be hamstrung enough to equal the 1.6's.
However, I live in the real world where the 99's with their better suspension geometry are comparable to a 1.6 while carrying an extra 200 lbs.
We're trying to dance on a razor's edge and they're walking on a 2x12.
The upgrade would've equalized the handling and we could have focused on the torque disparity with plate and/or required bigger exhaust.
The 1.6 may be able to put down a few faster laps with clear track. I didn't pick SM beacuse I wanted clear track.

--------------------
If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's got electrical problems.

Steven Holloway Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by John Mueller:
Steve, I get where you are coming from but none of these are in the rules as optional. [/QB]

Okay, not in the rules, but in my garage/trailer, most pit spaces at the track, they definitely exist.

In the rules I find
99 shock hats are optional.
Fatcat shockmounts are optional.
Non-stock air filters are optional.

Those 3 items together cover the cost of the suspension upgrade.

Semantics.
Choice.

--------------------
If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's got electrical problems.

Brian Ghidinelli Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
Ok where did these HP numbers come from. I haven't seen anything like that from my 1.6, I keep hearing about it, my engine builder says, not legally.

Combination of Run Offs dyno reports, engine builders, posts here from those who should know (not me!) and more. Consider all of them 2/2 optimistic/bullshitting but the spread stays essentially the same.

If your chassis is prepped to make top numbers, the difference between the years is pretty slim which is why we have good racing everywhere except one particular annual race where all the top cars and top drivers happen to party like it's 19__. (h/t Todd Lamb) They call that one an outlier...

--------------------
MotorsportReg.com / Haag Performance / Team SafeRacer
2010 San Francisco Region SMT Champion

Ron Alan Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike LL:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve D.:
quote:
Originally posted by taylorf:
It just looks bad.

Lots of things look bad if you don't apply a single second of rational thought to them. The kits will be priced attractively enough to make people want to buy them. Don't want to pay for that embedded R&D cost? Don't buy it from Dave. Nothing in the rule will say you have to. Figure it out on your own. Dick around with fabbing the brackets, connections, etc. If you want Dave to figure it out then sell it at cost, you're using up perfectly good oxygen for no apparent reason.

The SMAC guys bust their asses to make this class better and forumorons get to kick them in the balls for free. Nice.

+1 [thumbsup]
Liberalism is brutal and everywhere

+1 Amen to that. Guys like DaveW and many others(business owners) on this forum are what drives this country...I will be glad to order when it comes available. We might as well be running diesel after 6000rpms in our 95 [Eek!] Now at least we can tune a little like the deep pockets. This decision was a no brainer. And like someone mentioned, the suspension optioned being shelved for now keeps the NA in it's original package...1.6 class someday??

--------------------
-RA


"Happy birthday, I didn't get you a present...Oh, mom got you one? Well, that's from me then too, unless it's shitty."
9:52 AM Sep 14th, 2009 via web
http://twitter.com/shitmydadsays

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Pack Fodder

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quote:
Originally posted by Ken SM-94:
Funny, I was just thinking about replacing my old worn out subframe....that's really weird!!

Ken, If you want to switch to ITA...I have a nice one from a '99 I'll let go for a steal complete with steering rack, control arms...the whole works! [Big Grin]

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Alex Bolanos Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Tucker:
I can see no reason why the OPTIONAL suspension update was not approved either. Even if no performance is gained it would allow for a larger parts supply for the owners of 1.6s. Of course I did not understand why some 1.6 owners were against it in the first place.

Because it was proposed (advertised [Wink] ) incorrectly as a performance upgrade and not a "larger parts supply" update/backdate.

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian Ghidinelli:
[QUOTE] the difference between the years is pretty slim which is why we have good racing everywhere except one particular annual race where all the top cars and top drivers happen to party like it's 19__. (h/t Todd Lamb)

Brian
Is that true? I don't believe it is? I think we have one guy who desperately wants his son to do well and can't get his car within 3 hp ogf what it needs to be for whatever reason. Then we have another guy has never raced SM at Road America but has watched a bunch of C level cars get dominated by lots of "A" drvers in "A" level 99 cars. Nothing, including the facts changing their position.

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex Bolanos:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jamie Tucker:
[qb] Because it was proposed (advertised [Wink] ) incorrectly as a performance upgrade and not a "larger parts supply" update/backdate.

No it wasnt Alex... It was never presented as a competition adjustment. It was put forward to get all the cars on the same suspension, much like we now have all on the same gear.

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

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quote:
Originally posted by Alex Bolanos:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Tucker:
I can see no reason why the OPTIONAL suspension update was not approved either. Even if no performance is gained it would allow for a larger parts supply for the owners of 1.6s. Of course I did not understand why some 1.6 owners were against it in the first place.

Because it was proposed (advertised [Wink] ) incorrectly as a performance upgrade and not a "larger parts supply" update/backdate.
NA Sales: 212K
NB Sales: 54K

Perhaps we should 'backdate' the 99's to allow them access to the greater parts supply. This is a red herring.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Alex Bolanos Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Bolanos:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jamie Tucker:
[qb] Because it was proposed (advertised [Wink] ) incorrectly as a performance upgrade and not a "larger parts supply" update/backdate.

No it wasnt Alex... It was never presented as a competition adjustment. It was put forward to get all the cars on the same suspension, much like we now have all on the same gear.
I meant that the perception on this site (which admittedly is a small sample of SM drivers) was that this was a way to throw the 1.6 an "improved suspension, quicker laptime bone". I'm sure SCCA's intent is exactly what you said and I agree completely with it.

Alex Bolanos Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Bolanos:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Tucker:
I can see no reason why the OPTIONAL suspension update was not approved either. Even if no performance is gained it would allow for a larger parts supply for the owners of 1.6s. Of course I did not understand why some 1.6 owners were against it in the first place.

Because it was proposed (advertised [Wink] ) incorrectly as a performance upgrade and not a "larger parts supply" update/backdate.
NA Sales: 212K
NB Sales: 54K

Perhaps we should 'backdate' the 99's to allow them access to the greater parts supply. This is a red herring.

My math is fuzzy but 256,000 cars > 212,000. [Roll Eyes] Backdating cars doesn't work, evolve or end up like all of the other 3-5 car regional classes.

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Bolanos:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Tucker:
I can see no reason why the OPTIONAL suspension update was not approved either. Even if no performance is gained it would allow for a larger parts supply for the owners of 1.6s. Of course I did not understand why some 1.6 owners were against it in the first place.

Because it was proposed (advertised [Wink] ) incorrectly as a performance upgrade and not a "larger parts supply" update/backdate.
NA Sales: 212K
NB Sales: 54K

Perhaps we should 'backdate' the 99's to allow them access to the greater parts supply. This is a red herring.

I agree on parts supply not being an issue, it was not the intent of the proposal.

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

JIM DANIELS Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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They (ECU) wont go away because:

Incremental [Wink] RPM control of A/F & timing that the regulator and wheel can't do.

Still no way to tech it, which has been the main thrust of the ECU coming out.

And now, our tech folks will think this solves the issue, why look?

FYI: The scanner showing 23.5 is not an issue, just cost more......

We got to either open the boxes or seal and issue them in OEM format for this to go away. Otherwise, dyno tuned ECUs is what you will be racing against in all the other shows.

Side note: If we have special tech for the big show aka swap around ECUs, why can't we also have special rules that helps the 1.6 at that big shows?

Plausible?


[duck]

--------------------
Jim Daniels

MAZDARACERS.COM

JIM DANIELS Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by davew:
For those of you who do not know me. Spec Miata is how I pay my bills. I have to show a profit. Sorry about that, but that is how it is.

On another thread, the SMAC was given grief about not testing a proposed rules change. This time we did, and we still get grief.

I took charge of figuring out how to make a readily available fuel pressure regulator work. I did the research, I bought the part at retail price, I designed the bracket, I had a prototype made, I bought the equipment to make the lines, I tested the product.

The first 10 that I sell will pay for the prototype. The second ten will pay for my time. At that point I have thousands of dollars invested with no profit on that investment. How great of a business model is that???

For the statement "Dyno shops are celebrating nationwide!". I gave the baseline specs in my first post above, and Drago restated them. No dyno costs involved. What more do you guys want????

No offense meant, a bit more transparency with a tad less cool aid.

--------------------
Jim Daniels

MAZDARACERS.COM

JimEli Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by JIM DANIELS:

Excremental RPM control

That sounds like crap to me.

--------------------
UPR.com
Team LemonLappers

JIM DANIELS Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by JimEli:
quote:
Originally posted by JIM DANIELS:

Excremental RPM control

That sounds like crap to me.
New firefox spell checker, turned off now lol

--------------------
Jim Daniels

MAZDARACERS.COM

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by JimEli:
quote:
Originally posted by JIM DANIELS:

Excremental RPM control

That sounds like crap to me.
We do need a little bit more of that excremental control for sure, there has been lots of uncontrolled excrement going around. [Big Grin]

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

Brian Ghidinelli Verified Driver
Moonwalker

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Year : 99
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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
Is that true? I don't believe it is? I think we have one guy who desperately wants his son to do well and can't get his car within 3 hp ogf what it needs to be for whatever reason. Then we have another guy has never raced SM at Road America but has watched a bunch of C level cars get dominated by lots of "A" drvers in "A" level 99 cars. Nothing, including the facts changing their position.

No, it's not true at all. The Run Offs had crazy good racing! The problem is the presence of so many 99s and the poor results of the other cars (minus the 1.8 that, oh, wound up on the podium) creates the IMPRESSION that those cars aren't competitive because of the rules. But the HP/# and TQ/# numbers as well as the results from around the country tell a very different story: any competitive car can win on any given weekend when piloted at the limit without mistakes.

I appreciate the desire to return to a time when cars weren't prepped and drivers were just having fun and it was cheap. That never lasts. Ever. Let's figure out instead how to keep chipping away to secure the next 15 years of spec miata's brand of close racing. [twocents]

--------------------
MotorsportReg.com / Haag Performance / Team SafeRacer
2010 San Francisco Region SMT Champion

JIM DANIELS Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
quote:
Originally posted by JimEli:
quote:
Originally posted by JIM DANIELS:

Excremental RPM control

That sounds like crap to me.
We do need a little bit more of that excremental control for sure, there has been lots of uncontrolled excrement going around. [Big Grin]
Not so sure my sub-conscience did not post that....

--------------------
Jim Daniels

MAZDARACERS.COM

JIM DANIELS Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian Ghidinelli:
quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
Is that true? I don't believe it is? I think we have one guy who desperately wants his son to do well and can't get his car within 3 hp ogf what it needs to be for whatever reason. Then we have another guy has never raced SM at Road America but has watched a bunch of C level cars get dominated by lots of "A" drvers in "A" level 99 cars. Nothing, including the facts changing their position.

No, it's not true at all. The Run Offs had crazy good racing! The problem is the presence of so many 99s and the poor results of the other cars (minus the 1.8 that, oh, wound up on the podium) creates the IMPRESSION that those cars aren't competitive because of the rules. But the HP/# and TQ/# numbers as well as the results from around the country tell a very different story: any competitive car can win on any given weekend when piloted at the limit without mistakes.

I appreciate the desire to return to a time when cars weren't prepped and drivers were just having fun and it was cheap. That never lasts. Ever. Let's figure out instead how to keep chipping away to secure the next 15 years of spec miata's brand of close racing. [twocents]

There was never that time? Race one had pro motors, ECUs, shocks, polished everything, cams etc....

We had some guys who did not come from SS ranks with different notions. BUT, the prep you see at the top level today is actually LESS than we ran in early SM because we have adjusted rules for various loop holes. Nothing going on today is new in any way what so ever prep wise.

Not all loop holes are
plugged mind you..... [Wink]

I go back to this, swap cars and see how you do.

I have two '99s going to the west coast for next year, pro drivers. Soon the 800 pound Gorilla will show its face there too. But, they can't run every race due to multiple events per weekend at different tracks. So, a 1,6 will still get some wins. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Jim Daniels

MAZDARACERS.COM

Brian Ghidinelli Verified Driver
Moonwalker

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quote:
Originally posted by JIM DANIELS:
I have two '99s going to the west coast for next year, pro drivers. Soon the 800 pound Gorilla will show its face there too. But, they can't run every race due to multiple events per weekend at different tracks. So, a 1,6 will still get some wins. [Big Grin] [/QB]

Did your 1.8 garage build ever make it out here? I was feverishly waiting its scuttled arrival at Laguna to see how my garage stacked up. [Smile]

--------------------
MotorsportReg.com / Haag Performance / Team SafeRacer
2010 San Francisco Region SMT Champion

trey
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quote:
Originally posted by JIM DANIELS:
quote:
Originally posted by Brian Ghidinelli:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Drago:
[qb]

I appreciate the desire to return to a time when cars weren't prepped and drivers were just having fun and it was cheap.

There was never that time? Race one had pro motors, ECUs, shocks, polished everything, cams etc....

We had some guys who did not come from SS ranks with different notions. [Big Grin]

I remember building an early car. I had just jumped out of a front running SRF and thought I would pick right up ... Boy was I surprised ... The guys down here ( Texas ) went around me so fast I thought they were going to suck the decals off my car ... I could not get within 2 seconds of the early fast guys.

I was an early proponent of an " Enterprises " type engine program , but the SS roots were too deep ... It was discouraging enough that I sold that car ... Now I'm thinking about coming back to just have some fun , but to be quite honest , ITA is looking like it might be the place to go run a relaxed 1.6 program.

JIM DANIELS Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian Ghidinelli:
quote:
Originally posted by JIM DANIELS:
I have two '99s going to the west coast for next year, pro drivers. Soon the 800 pound Gorilla will show its face there too. But, they can't run every race due to multiple events per weekend at different tracks. So, a 1,6 will still get some wins. [Big Grin]

Did your 1.8 garage build ever make it out here? I was feverishly waiting its scuttled arrival at Laguna to see how my garage stacked up. [Smile] [/QB]
It did, I was there with it several weeks ago for a two day test. New owners were to race it this past weekend. Put it in the wall at turn 4, write off.

In the test I was at we ran some decent times but I'm sure your '99 would have been faster. My guys have not raced yet, new, but I think they got some mid 47s. I was a tad faster.

They are shipping it back now to retub. [Frown]

Ken Dobson will soon be there in a '99, you will find out the difference.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3548373&id=1446859239&saved

--------------------
Jim Daniels

MAZDARACERS.COM

 
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