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Author Topic: Mixed Starts
Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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I have posted about this before and took a lot of flack, but here I am again.

At the VIR Race this weekend we had a combined race – SM with SRF. The top SRF’s are about 4-5 seconds a lap faster than the top SM’s, but they do it in different ways. So we requested a split start. This was agreed to, but 5 minutes before the start we heard that they were going to stay with a mixed start.

Well it got ugly. I ended up being the meat in the sandwich being squeezed by two SRF’s. Unfortunately as we have seen from the infamous runoffs video when 3 cars get together, it seldom ends well.

One SRF came across the track, just like Valafar’s car and took out pretty much the entire field behind. At least 30 cars went off in the grass, made contact or flew over the top of other cars! Seriously – Bogart has the video!

That was just the start of the chaos.

Of course we went to black flag and they pulled the survivors back into pit row. Then they spent the next 45 minutes trying to pull the cars back into original grid order. Many cars were dragging parts, plastic, bumpers etc from the contact. Plus several cars radiators were choked from the grass as almost the entire field went off into the grass at the start line.

During the 45 minute re-gridding, MANY requests were made by competitors to allow crew to quickly tape up all loose plastic, pull out the grass from the radiators etc. but these requests were denied by the stewards.

And so we went out to race, with cars shedding plastic and bumpers and parts around the track.
I understand the rules, but I would hate to be the one that says “No you can’t tape up that bumper” only to see it fly off and nail the open cockpit driver in the SRF behind.

There is a huge difference between doing things right (following the letter of the law) and doing the right thing, taking care of customer interests and safety.

Yes I understand it’s a difficult decision, but I was surprised at both decisions this weekend and there were many really PISSED competitors.

Lack of split start was excused by saying they didn’t have a 2nd safety car. Give me a break. We have run split starts and restarts without pace cars. That is no excuse.

I personally believe that wherever possible, SPLIT starts should be used.

--------------------
Danny
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Danny said: I personally believe that wherever possible, mixed starts should be used.

I think you ment "SPLIT starts should be used" or "mixed starts should NOT be used" which is the same thing, just stated differently.

My opinion is mixing SRF with SM should be avoided. On paper it looks good, but in real life it is bad news. Both classes tend to run in packs, but when a pack of SMs and a pack of SRFs come together, bad things happen in a hurry.

Not allowing duct tape and grill cleaning was a mistake in judgement (which should overrule the GCR) on the part of the Stewards

Dave

--------------------
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Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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Thanks Dave

edited my post - and yes I agree

Top SM run in packs and top SRF run in packs. Both groups HATE to have another in between them ruining their race, as both are momentum cars and have to run at the limit the entire track to be able to hang with their competitors.

A car from another class that skunks a turn can easily completely destroy an entire result.

But if they are SPLIT by a good margin at the start then that seldom happens - sometimes a fast SM will catch up the tail ender SRF's but will seldom mess up a close tussle at the front where the pack is.

--------------------
Danny
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wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Danny,
I wish you would do a short description of what happened, and send it to the CRB and the BoD. When the racers know what needs to be done and the stewards refuse to do it (split start) there should be some changes made. Maybe dump a steward, or two, or put them in a re-education program. You do not need a second safety car, to do a split start, just have a drivers' meeting and make sure the pole sitter of the second group holds his speed.
GCR 6.5.2.D "Each segment should be led by a pace car, if possible."
wheel

Glenn Verified Driver
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Even worse, after the CORNER WORKERS pulled the bumber off of a car they sent him behind the wall. While there, we the crew "touched the car" The black flag was already down and the cars were rolling. The car went back on track, raced FINE for several laps and was black flagged by the stewards and told to leave the track. The driver was later told the reason the balck flag was given was that the "crew" touched the car under the black flag.

This was BS, we argue this all the time in enduro races. Cars do NOT move from a stop under the black. The course goes to yellow/double yellow. At that point we are allowed to work on the cars.

The driver was needlesly penalized and will not get credit for a race he PAID FOR! [soapbox]

--------------------
Glenn
Crew chief Meathead Racing, NE Region Sales Division Race Engineering, The GOLD standard in SM engines, Occasional race slave for OPM Autosports

Lance Snyder Made Donation to Website
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SM and SRF together without a split? That's asking for trouble... you are completely correct Danny. Remember Atlanta Region tried for a national and after that we said not again. While it wasn't a complete disaster it was still a tough race on everyone including us flaggers who had to try to keep track who was leading who in which pack for proper blue flagging.

And no 2nd pace car? Have a heart to heart talk with the SM front row and advise them how to handle themselves. Frankly any of the SM regulars at the pointy end of the grid can handle a pace lap properly. But if there is no 2nd pace car grab a car from the paddock, not like there aren't a bunch of cars that can be used. Frack, if I'm working the race y'all could have had my POS. I hate reading stories like this... you guys deserve better.

--------------------
All this has happened before, and will happen again

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"...but, Mr Chief Steward, I have to pay to fix crash damage to my car..."

I was racing the NCR Goblin's Go this weekend in the SM/SRF group at VIR and turning respectable times. I qualified 26th overall and 15th in the Miata class. On Sunday morning I looked at the grid and realized I was in the "kill zone". I decided to start from the back.
Within seconds of the green flag, rows 6 through 13 disappeared into smoke and flying parts. That would have been me.
I am sooooooo smart. [Big Grin]

I can only characterize this type of group scheduling as "irresponsible". I won't be going back.

--------------------
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Glenn Verified Driver
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Thriller you sir were a GENIUS!

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Glenn
Crew chief Meathead Racing, NE Region Sales Division Race Engineering, The GOLD standard in SM engines, Occasional race slave for OPM Autosports

John A - 5X Racing Verified Driver
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Sometimes it doesn't work well with all SM's either. Remember SIC 2009?

--------------------
John Adamczyk

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Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by John A - 5x Racing:
Sometimes it doesn't work well with all SM's either. Remember SIC 2009?

Remember - I dont think I will EVER forget!!! [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
Danny
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Alex Gaines Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny Steyn:
quote:
Originally posted by John A - 5x Racing:
Sometimes it doesn't work well with all SM's either. Remember SIC 2009?

Remember - I dont think I will EVER forget!!! [Roll Eyes]
I don't think anyone will ever forget as it's brought up at least once every two months.....haha [Big Grin] [duck]

[ 10-26-2010, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Alex Gaines ]

--------------------
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Danny Steyn requested a split start at Sat. driver's meeting - chief stewart says OK. Why it didn't happen, who knows.

GreatLakes grouped SM and SRF at their last 2 regionals this year. In September, after Saturday's cluster fooey, they decided to gap the groups on Sunday. Second pace car is preferable IMO. SM only groups are da bomb, vote with your entry fees!

Deb got some in-car video of flying smithereens from the back of the pack. I'll try to YouTube it soon.

-Denny

soupy
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The same thing happened earlier this year at Mid-Ohio with the almost the same results.

--------------------
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quote:
Originally posted by John A - 5x Racing:
Sometimes it doesn't work well with all SM's either. Remember SIC 2009?

SIC 2009 didn't require a BFA, didn't require 45 minutes of cleanup and regridding, didn't have numerous cars with bumpers hanging off and wasn't nearly as bad as the carnage that has been talked about here.

--------------------
All this has happened before, and will happen again

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As Charlie and Denny mention, we had a field comporised of roughly 1/3 SRF's and 2/3 SM's at the 10/8-9 Mid Ohio race. Day one's start was a Cluster with no split start. On Sunday we simply created our own SM split by gapping the back of the SRF field by about 500 feet! Amazingly the entire SM field was disciplined and held formation until the front row entered the normal point where the green would have flown.

As Denny says, the best solution is no mixed field at all, but a generous split allows the the back of thje SRF field to begin to get sorted before the front of the SM pack arrives.

How/why that didn't happen last week is unfortunate. I'm glad I choose to stay up North! Bending my car all to hell (unnessarily) at the end of the season is an experience I can live without.
Rick

--------------------
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My still aching shattered left thumb from the same SM/SRF grouping in 2004 (at the same race) agree.

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I was thinking about that when I saw this thread! Hope all is well taxman! Was thatt really 2004? Wow!

--------------------
Jim Drago
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Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Qik Nip:
As Charlie and Denny mention, we had a field comporised of roughly 1/3 SRF's and 2/3 SM's at the 10/8-9 Mid Ohio race. Day one's start was a Cluster with no split start. On Sunday we simply created our own SM split by gapping the back of the SRF field by about 500 feet! Amazingly the entire SM field was disciplined and held formation until the front row entered the normal point where the green would have flown.

As Denny says, the best solution is no mixed field at all, but a generous split allows the the back of thje SRF field to begin to get sorted before the front of the SM pack arrives.

How/why that didn't happen last week is unfortunate. I'm glad I choose to stay up North! Bending my car all to hell (unnessarily) at the end of the season is an experience I can live without.
Rick

Rick

Was this discussed before the start of R2? Did you have an official blessing? And did you allow all the SRF's that qualified behind you, to pass so that there was a complete SM / SRF separation?

One thing I neglected to mention was that in the restart of this race, after we had been re-gridded in single file, as we came around the pace lap onto the start straight waiting for the green flag restart, the driver directly behind me, in a black and yellow SRF, pretty much did what you are talking about, he intentionally hung back by several hundred yards allowing for a massive gap.

Of course that destroyed any possibility of the SM's behind me from ever contesting the race.

Obviously he was making his point, but at the expense of the other racers who were denied a chance of a real race.

--------------------
Danny
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Danny:
A clarificatiion in in order. In R1 we had a split group (SRF's in front), but no gap. Because of that, P1 and I were were on top of the back marker SRF's at the start. In R2 the first row of SM's created the gap.
Rick

P.S. In the next race weekend,(different Region) we ended up with a true mixed field and the result was exactly as you described. The P1 SM ran away and gapped the rest of the SM's while we were held up getting past by the lone SRF in between he and us.

--------------------
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny Steyn:
quote:
Originally posted by Qik Nip:
As Charlie and Denny mention, we had a field comporised of roughly 1/3 SRF's and 2/3 SM's at the 10/8-9 Mid Ohio race. Day one's start was a Cluster with no split start. On Sunday we simply created our own SM split by gapping the back of the SRF field by about 500 feet! Amazingly the entire SM field was disciplined and held formation until the front row entered the normal point where the green would have flown.

As Denny says, the best solution is no mixed field at all, but a generous split allows the the back of thje SRF field to begin to get sorted before the front of the SM pack arrives.

How/why that didn't happen last week is unfortunate. I'm glad I choose to stay up North! Bending my car all to hell (unnessarily) at the end of the season is an experience I can live without.
Rick

Rick

Was this discussed before the start of R2? Did you have an official blessing? And did you allow all the SRF's that qualified behind you, to pass so that there was a complete SM / SRF separation?

One thing I neglected to mention was that in the restart of this race, after we had been re-gridded in single file, as we came around the pace lap onto the start straight waiting for the green flag restart, the driver directly behind me, in a black and yellow SRF, pretty much did what you are talking about, he intentionally hung back by several hundred yards allowing for a massive gap.

Of course that destroyed any possibility of the SM's behind me from ever contesting the race.

Obviously he was making his point, but at the expense of the other racers who were denied a chance of a real race.

I was directly behind the black and yellow SRF, hoping to hold on to Tom and Danny for a while. The SRF slowed way down in Hog Pen and stayed way off the pace through the final turn. The entire rear half of his bodywork was missing from the melee, so I assumed he was either making a point or simply trying to avoid further trouble, although holding up a pack of several dozen angry drivers may not be the best way to achieve the latter. No matter: I was stuck. [banghead] Watching him put himself out to pasture in Turn 1 was little consolation. Danny and Tom already were in Turn 3 and I had two SRF's in my mirrors.

I agree with Lance. It requires a responsible adult on the pole, but it is quite possible to have a good split start without a second pace car. Notably, at CMP, as a practical matter, the local region does all starts without a pace car. The pace car pulls off at the beginning of the front straight, and the cars then navigate half the track before starting on the back straight. In March, we did have a huge crash before the start. This was due to numerous boneheaded factors and malefactors, but absence of a pace car was not among them.

I do not know why the officials could not produce another pace car. Does VIR's sponsorship agreement require that it be a VW? In any event, lack of one should not have prevented the split start which all drivers in both classes had requested.

With an experienced racer like Tom Fowler on the pole... wait, did I say this requires a responsible adult?

--------------------
Skip Brock
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Next time somebody says "We can't do it because we don't have a second pace car", laugh in their face. Jfc. Really.

Pretty much any place on earth, if you get on the PA and say "We need another pace car", you will have to hold off the swarm with a cattle prod. And...yes...in that swarm you'll find at least a few qualified and capable pace car drivers who will meet the needs and expectations of the stewards and the GCR. All you need then is a radio and (hopefully) a second seat "shotgun".

Been a race chairman (the guy who recruits pace car drivers...among other stuff!) for many regional and national races...believe me...pace car drivers are the easiest recruitment job of your entire weekend...and if you say "we need both you and your car", the answer is universally "OK".

But that's just my opinion.

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http://v.autohome.com.cn/v_4_10489.html

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Where's the video of the start? If cars had to be destroyed, at least we should have the entertainment value.

Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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My video is pretty boring as it only shows me getting nudged by the Red SRF on my right, driving me into the black SRF on my left, with the resultant black SRF coming laterally straight across my bows missing me by inches.

I think Bogart has the classic shot. From his viewpoint you see the billowing moke clouds forming, he takes evasive actions going off into the grass way before the start line, but there are at least 30 cars crashing, driving into each other, going over each other in the grass. Some of the worst carnage takes place in the grass right at the end of all the sliding.

Hopefully Bogart or others can post

--------------------
Danny
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This isn't rocket science and you don't need another pace car. You talk to the front row of the second group, give them clear instructions and start them out a bit behind the first group with the warning that if they do anything stupid they will be ejected from the event.

I've seen this done literally 100's of times in my short racing career.

This shit's almost criminal.

--------------------
Jason Holland
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PEATMOSS
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[Smash] The view from the back, was not pretty and could have been worse. Thankfully no one was hurt. one miata went over a SRF, without to much damage.
My computer was broken so a friend loaded the video on Youtube. Its a little long, but for those of you who haven't been to VIR, you can take a ride on the pace lap. It is truely a motorsports country club.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQBtNnOGvUA
If you go to Youtube site its under VIR Gobblins Go limelitesite.
A really bad mistake, by officials, could have been a total disaster! [Smash]

I edited it to correct the YouTube link - LSnyder

[ 10-26-2010, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Lance Snyder ]

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PETER BOGART
REGION 34
"The home of Roebling Road"

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Here's another view from the back by one of your SRF friends: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skp-ATs4IS4&feature=related

--------------------
-Cy
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Guys, you can jump to about 4:15 to watch the carnage unfold. How many more times do regions have to see this garbage before the SRF/SM together experiment stops? I think the best we have seen is moderately ok... worst is these cluster fracks. What was that... 15 cars off drivers left? Great job missing it all Petey.

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All this has happened before, and will happen again

PEATMOSS
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[thumbsup] Hi Lance,
Thanks for the edit job !!! My bad!! Guy in the back usually don't postbecause no one cares!
Not only are you a great corner person, but good editor as well? How did you do that????

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PETER BOGART
REGION 34
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PEATMOSS
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More like 20 to 30 if you count both sides of the track!!!! [Smash]

--------------------
PETER BOGART
REGION 34
"The home of Roebling Road"

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quote:
Originally posted by Jason Holland:
This isn't rocket science and you don't need another pace car. You talk to the front row of the second group, give them clear instructions and start them out a bit behind the first group with the warning that if they do anything stupid they will be ejected from the event.

I've seen this done literally 100's of times in my short racing career.

This shit's almost criminal.

I disagree. Everyone should know how the start will work, not just the front row. Otherwise it can result in far too much confusion that can lead to accidents with people rows back trying to figure out when the race is actually starting...are the front rows going? Is it fair to move out of line when we pass the bridge? Too much room for people to get antsy and make poor choices.

--------------------
Keith Novak
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quote:
Originally posted by PEATMOSS:
More like 20 to 30 if you count both sides of the track!!!! [Smash]

How did you get to 20? Take off the your shoes while drivin? [Big Grin]

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All this has happened before, and will happen again

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I thought I was watching a clip from The Road Warrior there for a minute.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Lance Snyder Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Holland:
This isn't rocket science and you don't need another pace car. You talk to the front row of the second group, give them clear instructions and start them out a bit behind the first group with the warning that if they do anything stupid they will be ejected from the event.

I've seen this done literally 100's of times in my short racing career.

This shit's almost criminal.

I disagree. Everyone should know how the start will work, not just the front row. Otherwise it can result in far too much confusion that can lead to accidents with people rows back trying to figure out when the race is actually starting...are the front rows going? Is it fair to move out of line when we pass the bridge? Too much room for people to get antsy and make poor choices.
It ain't rocket science to get this type of notification down the rest of the SM grid. Get it out an hour before the race and everyone will know and understand.

Here is where I have a problem with this whole 2 pace car thingy... routinely the FV guys at a national will do their own split start. Yes there are less then them but if they are allowed to do it... why can't the SMers with Fowler leading the way?

--------------------
All this has happened before, and will happen again

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I hate mixed starts, period. Wish they were never used. Split starts with some spacing, OK.

Pat

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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[/qb][/QUOTE]It ain't rocket science to get this type of notification down the rest of the SM grid. Get it out an hour before the race and everyone will know and understand.[/QB][/QUOTE]

I agree with that. There are enough new drivers rows back, and some who are so keyed up that they pull some amazingly boneheaded moves imaginable on a regular start.

I already got rammed once this year by an overly anxious driver who was anticipating the green, not seeing there was already a crash a few rows up, and watched another driver race up the middle of 4 rows right next to a double yellow flag, on an aborted start. Not putting out the word how things will go down on a split start with no pace car is just a recipie for disaster IMHO.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

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quote:
Originally posted by PEATMOSS:
[thumbsup] Hi Lance,
Thanks for the edit job !!! My bad!! Guy in the back usually don't postbecause no one cares!
Not only are you a great corner person, but good editor as well? How did you do that????

You did a real nice job missing everyone. There was no delay from when the smoke appears and you start to slow which shows that you were looking way down the road; nice job.

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

TURNINGLT4SPONSOR
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Danny
Post your video.

Brockodile
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quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
]It ain't rocket science to get this type of notification down the rest of the SM grid. Get it out an hour before the race and everyone will know and understand.

I agree with that. There are enough new drivers rows back, and some who are so keyed up that they pull some amazingly boneheaded moves imaginable on a regular start.

I already got rammed once this year by an overly anxious driver who was anticipating the green, not seeing there was already a crash a few rows up, and watched another driver race up the middle of 4 rows right next to a double yellow flag, on an aborted start. Not putting out the word how things will go down on a split start with no pace car is just a recipie for disaster IMHO. [/QB]

Rules require drivers to stay in order, in line, and to maintain spacing prior to the green. Thus, pace car or no pace car, the driver on the pole controls the pace. For various reasons, these rules are routinely breached, especially in the dreaded "zone of death" beginning around Row 5 and extending several rows back. This behavior is universal, and generally begins around the time the pace car pulls off, which it must inevitably do. The presence or absence of a pace car makes no difference to the boneheads, bumper-watchers and over-anxious drivers to whom Keith refers, nor to the expert start-jumpers whom I hold in perpetual awe.

The afore-mentioned chaos is intrinsic to any flying start. The point of the split start is to avoid the additional chaos inherent in a combined start with incompatible cars. If possible, I'd prefer two pace cars; however, to avoid the incompatibility factor, I'll settle for just one.

--------------------
Skip Brock
OPM Rental, RE Engine

Seems like everywhere I go,
The more I see,
The less I know.

"Say Hey", by Michael Franti

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Mediocrity rules!

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quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Holland:
This isn't rocket science and you don't need another pace car. You talk to the front row of the second group, give them clear instructions and start them out a bit behind the first group with the warning that if they do anything stupid they will be ejected from the event.

I've seen this done literally 100's of times in my short racing career.

This shit's almost criminal.

I disagree. Everyone should know how the start will work, not just the front row. Otherwise it can result in far too much confusion that can lead to accidents with people rows back trying to figure out when the race is actually starting...are the front rows going? Is it fair to move out of line when we pass the bridge? Too much room for people to get antsy and make poor choices.
All those answers are found in the rulebook.

--------------------
Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

Brockodile
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason Holland:
quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Holland:
This isn't rocket science and you don't need another pace car. You talk to the front row of the second group, give them clear instructions and start them out a bit behind the first group with the warning that if they do anything stupid they will be ejected from the event.

I've seen this done literally 100's of times in my short racing career.

This shit's almost criminal.

I disagree. Everyone should know how the start will work, not just the front row. Otherwise it can result in far too much confusion that can lead to accidents with people rows back trying to figure out when the race is actually starting...are the front rows going? Is it fair to move out of line when we pass the bridge? Too much room for people to get antsy and make poor choices.
All those answers are found in the rulebook.
[thumbsup] +1, Jason.

--------------------
Skip Brock
OPM Rental, RE Engine

Seems like everywhere I go,
The more I see,
The less I know.

"Say Hey", by Michael Franti

iambhooper
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quote:
Originally posted by PEATMOSS:
[Smash] The view from the back, was not pretty and could have been worse. Thankfully no one was hurt. one miata went over a SRF, without to much damage.

A really bad mistake, by officials, could have been a total disaster! [Smash]

It was the second bonehead start I've seen in the past 18 month's. (The other was the IT start at the 2009 SARRC/MARRS)

As bad as my weekend was, at that moment I was actually pleased with where I was on the track! 2 row's behind Peter (in the Bat Car). Unfortunatly I didn't get any video. When I got to the scrumm, there were car's going all over the place in the grass, and the track was actually the clearer path, so I just stuck with it.

This is totally on the Stewards. A 2nd pace car could be had easily. I have paced the field, and know the pace car drivers. They are a good lot, but can only do what the Steward's allow.

hoop

--------------------
hoop
'91 Spec Miata
'90 NA Beater/Track Day car
'06 RSX Type S

Dave Stevens
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quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
I thought I was watching a clip from The Road Warrior there for a minute.

Looks like a Saturday night at the Bullring...

Glad no one was hurt, that was ugly.

--------------------
The 2011 Money Furnace
http://racing.roaddog.com/

Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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Car #: 39
Year : 1999
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Actually, I now realize the really good video is from Robert Spences Car. Watched several in the trailer after the start - got mixed up with Bogarts and Spences

Robert - please post

TURNINGLT4SPONSOR - will get mine up later today

--------------------
Danny
http://www.dannysteyn.com
http://www.adeptstudios.com
OPM Autosports | Traqmate | Rossini Racing Engines
2010 June Sprints Champ, 2010 ARRC SMX Champ
2009 SARRC Champ, 2009 SEDiv ECR Champ, 2009 FES Champ
2008 SEDiv ECR Champ

d mathias Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Hoop, the "Batmobile" is cool.

Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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Guys - there is ZERO problem with holding formation at the front WITHOUT a pace car. Just tell the polesitter what to do. Any driver that can qualify for an SCCA license can hold the filed together at 40mph for one lap.

In fact after this debacle, after the grid was re-gridded, the lead car was told to circulate at 40mph and the restart was done WITHOUT a pace car with no problems (other than the yellow/black SRF intentionally skunking the race for all the SM drivers behind me)

--------------------
Danny
http://www.dannysteyn.com
http://www.adeptstudios.com
OPM Autosports | Traqmate | Rossini Racing Engines
2010 June Sprints Champ, 2010 ARRC SMX Champ
2009 SARRC Champ, 2009 SEDiv ECR Champ, 2009 FES Champ
2008 SEDiv ECR Champ

Steve D. Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Once you get past the gag reflex, the jelly ain't bad!

Region: Atlanta
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Tucker:
quote:
Originally posted by PEATMOSS:
[thumbsup] Hi Lance,
Thanks for the edit job !!! My bad!! Guy in the back usually don't postbecause no one cares!
Not only are you a great corner person, but good editor as well? How did you do that????

You did a real nice job missing everyone. There was no delay from when the smoke appears and you start to slow which shows that you were looking way down the road; nice job.
You ought to see how far away he has to hold the newspaper. His distance vision is great!

Kidding, PeatPete. Good, heads-up driving. I have never been off track at VIR without getting all excited and looping it. [Eek!]

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Pack Fodder

Region: NWR / Oregon
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Year : 95
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason Holland:
quote:
Originally posted by Keith in WA:
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Holland:
This isn't rocket science and you don't need another pace car. You talk to the front row of the second group, give them clear instructions and start them out a bit behind the first group with the warning that if they do anything stupid they will be ejected from the event.

I've seen this done literally 100's of times in my short racing career.

This shit's almost criminal.

I disagree. Everyone should know how the start will work, not just the front row. Otherwise it can result in far too much confusion that can lead to accidents with people rows back trying to figure out when the race is actually starting...are the front rows going? Is it fair to move out of line when we pass the bridge? Too much room for people to get antsy and make poor choices.
All those answers are found in the rulebook.
That's putting an awful lot of faith in the hope that everyone read, remembers, understands, and follows the rules during perhaps the most dangerous part of car racing. If people don't know what to do when a car has a mechanical and drops out of line on the pace lap, are you really sure they know what to do on a split start with no pace car? [Wink]

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

wheel Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Split starts w/o a pace car are no big deal. A short drivers' meeting, covers it all. They are far safer than the alternative.

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Not saying I have any problems with a mixed start with no pace car whatsoever. Simply that if a short meeting or someone roaming the paddock to spread the word stops just one driver from laying a big juicy turd in everyone elses punch bowl, it was worth a couple minutes of everyones day.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

 
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