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Author Topic: June Laguna event - what happened?
Jeremy Pike
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I AM THE UNNAMED CAR!!!!!!! NOW YOU SEE ME, Now y o u d o n ' t.


Actualy I wasn't even there, but those videos were not fun to watch, alot of damage going on. Would lightened rims give the same effect as a lightened flywheel?

Johnny D Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Speed Freak:
Does anyone know what the #42 did that was deemed unsportsman like conduct ?

I don't know, but he went off in 6 and hit 3 sides of his car bouncing off the tires tring to pass the 510 in ITA Qual. In Sundays SM race I think he broke a ball joint on the 1st lap coming off turn 2, so not a good weekend.
J~

Shop Teacher
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you know there are alot of parts in the bell housing that are steel. only a small part of the flywheel is made of aluminum. it also has a large steel plate on it.

--------------------
Al Angulo
Auto Instructor
Ford Senior Master Tech
ASE Master Tech

Ron Alan Made Donation to Website
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Does SCCA post to the public an actual full report of every incident that is posted in short hand on Mylaps? If they do...great...point me to it. If not they should as stuff like this needs to be open for all to view...kind of like the SSM bs.

I think the increase in tech at this weekend had many cheering and some...hopefully not many...checking their shorts. I never understood when I played with guys who cheated at golf...why?...because you can?...or is it your little white balls?? [Wink]

It will be interesting to check lap times at upcoming events to previous events and see if anyone suddenly is a second slower?? Ruh-Row(perfect Dr. D [burst] )

Juan...please post pics...I can't believe you got that car back on the track! Did you get replacement parts or did you just pound stuff out? I have a lot to learn!

-RA Crew

--------------------
-RA


"Happy birthday, I didn't get you a present...Oh, mom got you one? Well, that's from me then too, unless it's shitty."
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Viet-Tam Luu
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quote:
Originally posted by Johnny D:
quote:
Originally posted by Speed Freak:
Does anyone know what the #42 did that was deemed unsportsman like conduct ?

I don't know, but he went off in 6 and hit 3 sides of his car bouncing off the tires tring to pass the 510 in ITA Qual. In Sundays SM race I think he broke a ball joint on the 1st lap coming off turn 2, so not a good weekend.
Wild man Mighty Mike seemed a bit wilder than usual, but that wasn't the reason for the penalty. I've heard... rumors, but I won't repeat them here. I'd rather Mike tell us himself if/when he's ready.

--------------------
Viet-Tam Luu (a.k.a. "Tam")
SFR-SCCA #14 ITS
Director, SCCA San Francisco Region

Viet-Tam Luu
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Here's my video of the Saturday group 5 race: http://vimeo.com/12596214

I think racing-wise it was my best race yet. Ran a clean race, moved up a bunch of places, took my car home on Sunday with money in the racing budget for upgrades rather than bodywork. [thumbsup]

--------------------
Viet-Tam Luu (a.k.a. "Tam")
SFR-SCCA #14 ITS
Director, SCCA San Francisco Region

Ron Alan Made Donation to Website
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[/qb][/QUOTE]The result is identical, both evaded the compliance check. I know the story of each and one just did a better job of evading...

Identical?? Disallowed qualifying times vs. 6 month suspension??

Did car#__actually start at the back of the field(35 cars) and finish in 6th 12 seconds off the lead???

--------------------
-RA


"Happy birthday, I didn't get you a present...Oh, mom got you one? Well, that's from me then too, unless it's shitty."
9:52 AM Sep 14th, 2009 via web
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Kim Ouye Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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yes

--------------------
Kim

91 BRG SMT RIP
06 MX-5 Cup

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy sh*t...what a ride!'" - Unknown

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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Alan:
Did car#__actually start at the back of the field(35 cars) and finish in 6th 12 seconds off the lead???

I think that's pretty reasonable. Last year I was DQ'd for sound at Laguna and started from the back - 25th in SMT - and even with a lame start (I didn't pass anyone until T2) and no FCYs I finished in 5th, 5 seconds behind the leader. Of course, I'm not trying to claim I have nearly the straight line driving abilities that the driver of car #__ has shown in some memorable races past, just that his performance would be entirely reasonable for a 100% legal car and a driver of his ability (he's a darn good racer and had a great start from what I could see from the tower).

JD

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You can pass half the field from the back by t3. You get an amazing run if you know how. Know one cares if you get a running start if you are DFL.... When Is this going to stop? (shananigans) Either we all do something or just shut up about it and let it go. Already wrote my letter. (not that it will do any good.)Are you guys not fed up? Everyone Wants to go faster , but when will the board make penalties equal to all? When my grandma grows her teeth back, Me thinks..politics

--------------------
Daniel Mairani DDS...still here, just faster.
http://www.DanielMairanidds.com

Kim Ouye Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Alan:
The result is identical, both evaded the compliance check. I know the story of each and one just did a better job of evading...

Identical?? Disallowed qualifying times vs. 6 month suspension??

What I meant by result is that both end up evading the compliance check via different means. While there is some discretion on the severity of the penalty, I don't think the disallowed qualifying times was nearly enough.

--------------------
Kim

91 BRG SMT RIP
06 MX-5 Cup

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy sh*t...what a ride!'" - Unknown

Dave McAnaney Verified Driver
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With all due repect, I don't think it's fair to Monday-morning quarterback the actions of the Stewards when most (if not all) the people posting have little first-hand knowledge of the situation and may not be privy to other actions that may have had a bearing on the decisions. Let's be fair and give the Stewards the benefit of the doubt.

--------------------
Dave McAnaney
SM#45 San Francisco Region

Brian Ghidinelli Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Dan:
You can pass half the field from the back by t3. You get an amazing run if you know how. Know one cares if you get a running start if you are DFL.... When Is this going to stop? (shananigans) Either we all do something or just shut up about it and let it go.

Well if the fast guy at the back has a radio, he is going to know when the flag is green long before the guys without radios. That isn't against the rules.

Ultimately, anyone prematurely passed should be filing a protest, no? Video proves all...

--------------------
MotorsportReg.com / Haag Performance / Team SafeRacer
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Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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What is with all the 'car #___", You guys have only yourselves to blame! [boggled]
Are you guys afraid you will never be able to race Thunderhill again or something [Big Grin] [duck]

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

Johnny D Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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+1 [thumbsup] [rolling on floor laughin]

JD Morris Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
You guys have only yourselves to blame!

I'm not so sure and this is something that has bugged me. This isn't directed at this past weekend, but when someone qualifies somewhere in the midpack, you have little reason to protest them. When in the race they blow by the whole field for the win, there's nothing another competitor can do, then, right? There's no ability to file a tech protest post-race (GCR 8.3.1.F) so for example, if someone pulls their restrictor plate for the race and you know they removed their plate but tech isn't checking them that day (and hoods are closed), there's nothing you can do. At least that's what happened to me in the past... If it becomes precedent that even when tech does ask to check some part and the competitor sneaks away and only gets a slap on the wrist, what then?

JD

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quote:
Originally posted by Brian Ghidinelli:
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Dan:
You can pass half the field from the back by t3. You get an amazing run if you know how. Know one cares if you get a running start if you are DFL.... When Is this going to stop? (shananigans) Either we all do something or just shut up about it and let it go.

Well if the fast guy at the back has a radio, he is going to know when the flag is green long before the guys without radios. That isn't against the rules.

Ultimately, anyone prematurely passed should be filing a protest, no? Video proves all...

This was added to the SFR supps within the last couple of years:

"Prior to leaving the circuit, the safety car will extinguish its flashing lights. The green flag may then be shown to the leader. At the green flag, all yellow flags will be simultaneously lowered and racing resumes throughout the course. All cars must hold position until the green flag is displayed and the yellow flags are lowered."

The emphasis is theirs, not mine. You could argue that this rule (which appears in section 32: Safety Car) applies to restarts only, which is implied by some of the verbiage, but it isn't made explicit.

This rule is, of course, impossible to comply with, as a driver has no way of knowing the state of the flags everywhere around the course.

Scott

Viet-Tam Luu
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quote:
Originally posted by hoverducky:
This rule is, of course, impossible to comply with, as a driver has no way of knowing the state of the flags everywhere around the course.

The rule should prevent someone further back in the field from jumping ahead in the time between the green flag flying (unseen to them but communicated via radio) and the yellow flags coming down where they are.

One might argue the rule is unnecessary since the yellow flags take precedence--regardless of the green flag at start/finish, no overtaking where yellow flags are displayed.

--------------------
Viet-Tam Luu (a.k.a. "Tam")
SFR-SCCA #14 ITS
Director, SCCA San Francisco Region

Johnny D Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I don't have a radio yet but...

Can you tune into race control ?
Flip onto the channel for yellows
Flip off so you don't get all the chatter.
J~

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You can with the right setup. Typically it's the spotter/crew chief who listens to both and relays info to the driver rather than the driver having extra stuff to mess with.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

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quote:
Originally posted by Viet-Tam Luu:
quote:
Originally posted by hoverducky:
This rule is, of course, impossible to comply with, as a driver has no way of knowing the state of the flags everywhere around the course.

The rule should prevent someone further back in the field from jumping ahead in the time between the green flag flying (unseen to them but communicated via radio) and the yellow flags coming down where they are.

One might argue the rule is unnecessary since the yellow flags take precedence--regardless of the green flag at start/finish, no overtaking where yellow flags are displayed.

GCR says:

"G. The Starter will start the race by suddenly and continuously waving
the green flag until all cars have passed the start line if the field is:
1. at a constant slow speed;
2. well bunched and in line; and
3. close enough to the Starter that the majority of the drivers can
see the flag.
Racing begins and passing may occur throughout the field when
the green flag is displayed."

Without the added rule in the supps, the track goes green everywhere at once, which to my mind is the more sane way of doing things. With the SFR rule you can be green in T10 but yellow in T11. I think we all know how that would go.

Scott

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quote:
Originally posted by Johnny D:
Can you tune into race control ?
Flip onto the channel for yellows
Flip off so you don't get all the chatter.

I like the thinking here. [Smile]

About the corner double yellow taking precedence, it makes sense that it should. However, the way the rules were previously written, that was not clear. Some stewards that I asked back then said that you could start racing when the green flew regardless of the double yellow at the flag stand.

That's why the rule clarification was needed. Now it's fair for radio and non-radio, and it's safer as everyone out of sight of the green gets the same notice about when they can start racing, even if that notice might be different than the notice that the cars within sight of the green get.

-Juan

--------------------
www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

Brian Ghidinelli Verified Driver
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My video of the restart on Saturday from P3: http://www.vimeo.com/12621365

--------------------
MotorsportReg.com / Haag Performance / Team SafeRacer
2010 San Francisco Region SMT Champion

Randy Thieme
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quote:
"Prior to leaving the circuit, the safety car will extinguish its flashing lights. The green flag may then be shown to the leader. At the green flag, all yellow flags will be simultaneously lowered and racing resumes throughout the course. All cars must hold position until the green flag is displayed and the yellow flags are lowered."

...

This rule is, of course, impossible to comply with, as a driver has no way of knowing the state of the flags everywhere around the course.

Agree that rule is poorly worded. There is no way for drivers to know all yellow flags are lowered.

Speaking as a corner-worker the process does not happen instantly. The starter does not annouce "green flag, green flag" over the radio at the same time they start waving it. Someone else is watching very carefully and when the see it then it is announced. The starter is too busy watching the field and waving the flag to also announce anything. Usually only one corner-worker at each turn station is on radio. So that corner-worker announces it to the other corner-workers at the station.

The sequence is (1) starter waves flag, (2) race-control annouces 'green flag' on the radio, (3) the corner-workers whom are on radio announce 'green flag' to the other workers at their station, and (4) the worker holding the yellow-flag pulls the flag. To corner-workers the whole process seems to happen quickly, but (changing hats to driver) as a driver the delay is significant. One person's second or two is another person's eternity.

(Changing hats back to corner-worker) When they announce "green flag, green flag" over the radio the yellow flags are lowered but it's not physically possible to do that instantly. I've never heard it quantified how fast it should be done but very promply is understood without saying. But I can't see any corner-worker getting out of shape because a car gunned it while they were in the process of putting away the yellow flag but did not yet have it out of sight. None of the corner-workers I've been paired with would split hairs like that.

If the goal is to let everyone know green flag at once some other technology would have to be used. Now if the starter had a button to press and everyone had a little green light on their dash that might work.

Johnny D Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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For me with no radio i'm on the guys butt whatever the flag is coming around the corner. If the flag waves greens i'm there and ready. Everytime there's a backup ahead around the circuit, i'm waving stop.
J~

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quote:
Originally posted by JD Morris:
quote:
Originally posted by Ron Alan:
Did car#__actually start at the back of the field(35 cars) and finish in 6th 12 seconds off the lead???

I think that's pretty reasonable. Last year I was DQ'd for sound at Laguna and started from the back - 25th in SMT - and even with a lame start (I didn't pass anyone until T2) and no FCYs I finished in 5th, 5 seconds behind the leader. Of course, I'm not trying to claim I have nearly the straight line driving abilities that the driver of car #__ has shown in some memorable races past, just that his performance would be entirely reasonable for a 100% legal car and a driver of his ability (he's a darn good racer and had a great start from what I could see from the tower).

JD

I will defer to your experience JD...and no doubt Vodden has incredible driving skills with years of experience. As a rookie crew I just find it amazing that someone can keep pace with the front pack who essentially have clear sailing while they have to negotiate through 15 or 20 slower cars through the course of the race. But you educated me that it's not uncommon...so thanks.

On Sat. he went from 20th to 5th...pretty impressive also (unless his qualifying was intentional?).

I'm not going to take anything away from Dave Voddens driving skills and I won't Monday(Wed)morning QB without the facts(As I asked if they were public in an earlier post)but I will say he did himself no favors by avoiding tech in whatever manner he did. [twocents]

--------------------
-RA


"Happy birthday, I didn't get you a present...Oh, mom got you one? Well, that's from me then too, unless it's shitty."
9:52 AM Sep 14th, 2009 via web
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B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
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Ron, it is possible, I'll have to post my zero to hero video (last to first in 8 laps) again. Having started from the back way too many times due to various reason (none of which were my fault [Big Grin] ), I've found a lot of folks generally don't impede your progress back to the front. I just wish I could harness the mixture of focus and adrenaline when in these situations. If I could, I'd likely win way more often !!!!

-bw

--------------------
Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
2010 Monte Shelton Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E3 and Under 2 liter Overall Champion
Oregon Region SM Class Advisor

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For the record, I have always been one of those who lets the fastest guys go by at the start of the race, when they are starting from the back of the pack for whatever reason. It only slows me down to get in the way of someone I know is going to beat me anyway.

That said, I continue to harbor fantasies of continuing to close the gap, so that the day may come when I'm not ready to concede positions even to Will, Ken or Bruce....

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It is very possible. You pass the first half due to superior speed as you move closer to the top there are those like me that recognize who is coming up behind and know it makes no sense prolonging the eventual pass and just catch the draft and hope to gain a few positions in the process and the last 20% you earn.

Dennis

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I've seen the charge from the back several times. Once from a top contender who either came in light, or was repremanded for giving me the finger all the way down the front straight in clear view of the officials for screwing up his hot lap. [Embarrassed] Not sure which.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

dp35 Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Johnny D:
I don't have a radio yet but...

Can you tune into race control ?
Flip onto the channel for yellows
Flip off so you don't get all the chatter.
J~

Better not flip off the race control folks. I hear they don't like that...

--------------------
2010 SCCA Regional Driver of the Year
2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill E1 Class winner, MX-5 Cup

Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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For your further amusement, I reposted the video of the T11 pileup, but this time including video of the previous restart so you can compare. Both are very similar from my vantage point up until they are not.


http://www.vimeo.com/12598016


Enjoy!
-Juan

--------------------
www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

Johnny D Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by dp35:
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny D:
I don't have a radio yet but...

Can you tune into race control ?
Flip onto the channel for yellows
Flip off so you don't get all the chatter.
J~

Better not flip off the race control folks. I hear they don't like that...
I read it once and didn't think much of it.
I read it again and go it.

"Flip off" [thumbsup]

But not the thumb, a different finger. [rolling on floor laughin]
J~

Viet-Tam Luu
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quote:
Originally posted by Johnny D:
But not the thumb, a different finger.

You mean this one?  -

--------------------
Viet-Tam Luu (a.k.a. "Tam")
SFR-SCCA #14 ITS
Director, SCCA San Francisco Region

Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Did anyone get any pictures and videos of my car after it was repaired or during the repair process? If so, can you PM me? I'd like to get them, as I'm putting together a short documentary on how we fixed it.

Thanks!
-Juan

--------------------
www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

Will Schrader Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Hey all,
I know I am a little late to the party . . . drive home, work, family, bla bla bla.
Just wanted to say thanks to all the SFR drivers and workers for making all of us Northwest boys feel welcomed. I think I can speak for all of us and say we had a great time and some pretty good racin' too [Smile]
Will Schrader

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Year : 1992
Posts: 2279
Status: Offline
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Hey Will,

It was great having you and the whole NW crew down here stirring things up. Congrats on the Win Saturday!

-Juan

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www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

 
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