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Author Topic: Need electrical knowledge in Charlotte
jkballardbpl Verified Driver
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Car #: 95
Year : 95
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I have exhausted my ability to resolve a "no spark" issue. The next step is the dealer or a electrical mechanic. Can you refer anyone to me?

Thanks,
Jim Ballard
20 miles north of Charlotte (Mooresville)

Problem: No spark. No gas in cylinder (injectors are not firing but have gas pressure in the fuel rail). Appears the ECU is not getting power.
When I electrical power tested on the main relay, I see
- BW wire from kill switch is hot
- WG wire to fuel injector fuse is hot
- WG wire to alternator is hot
- WR wire to ECU, FUEL Pump, Injectors, CAS - cold
- did not test the ground (black coming out of relay) - not sure how

Also I do not see the yellow "check engine" light come on ever.

The engine will turn over (starter works),

What I have tested:

1) grounds on both sides of the engine are good.
2) swapped the coils, swapped the spark plug wires
3) swapped the CAS
4) swapped the ECU
5) swapped the main relay
6) electrical power test on the master kill switch, all fuses
7) confirmed the gas lines are right

soupy
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Car #: 98
Year : 1999
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Ground wires on the fuel rail?

--------------------
Charlie Campbell
Race Engineering
carbotech brakes

jkballardbpl Verified Driver
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Car #: 95
Year : 95
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Thanks - is this the ground coming out of the fuel injector wiring harnes - grounds to the back of the intake manifold? or is there a third ground.

From the firewall forward, I had to completely rebuild the car and easily could have missed this. Can you tell me where the ground is from/to?

soupy
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Should be on the right side towards the front between the valve cover and the throttle body. Right on top.

--------------------
Charlie Campbell
Race Engineering
carbotech brakes

jkballardbpl Verified Driver
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Car #: 95
Year : 95
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On my 95 1.8, the forward throttle body wiring harness does have a ground that connects to a metal bracket that holds the harness in place. Other than that, I see no wires or places for a ground. I see nothing "grounding the fuel rail".

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Year : 1991
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The lack of CEL plus no spark or squirt suggests something common to all. Main harness plugs?

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Mark Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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The 95's (early 95's and maybe 94's too?) allow one to accidentally swap the CAS and and one of the coil connectors. BTDT. CAS and coil connector plugs (2) are all the same on these cars. It would be nice if the connectors for these components were unique as these connectors are so close together it makes it all too easy to plug things together incorrectly.

--------------------
Mark
http://www.ironcanyonmotorsports.com

jkballardbpl Verified Driver
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Year : 95
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Good thought and keep them coming. I agree.. it has to be something really basic (read really dumb!) but unfortunately I've been down that road. Actually went to the wiring guide in the haynes manual to absolutely make sure the coil and CAS connectors are right.

Anyone know how to test if the ECU is getting power (what supplies the power to it?). I am guessing the power to the ECU is coming from the Main relay. Can someone confirm this, how to test? Does it make sense that the WR wire from the Main is cold when the ignition is in the on position? The wiring diagram looks like there is a hot wire Blu/Red coming from the room fuse to the ECU as well.

Ramjet 8 Verified Driver
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Check and make sure cam sensor is plugged in good. The wifes 94 had a broke plastic retainer on the cam sensor and it wouldn't run or run and not run sometimes. Replaced just about everything till I found this. Even bought a wiring harness and then stumbled upon the problem.

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Did you check the engine fuse in the fusebox in driver's footwell?

I think it's labeled engine or ignition.

--------------------
Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

jkballardbpl Verified Driver
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Jason - double checked them all.

Ramjet - This is the one area that I thought would most liekly be the problem. When I installed the engine, I crushed the CAS plastice case (protects the pins) against the firewall. So I replaced the CAS with a spare. The connections look good and tight and the CAS seats up nicely in the Head. There is a very outside chance that the replacement CAS is bad as I cannot remember if it came from one of the engines I have run.

I also checked the blue wire coming out of the ignition (looks to go to the coils) and it is hot in the ignition on position.

To me, everything points back to the white/red wire coming out of the main relay (cold) as I am pretty sure it supplies the power to all of the common functions (ecu, fuel injectors...). I have a guess that it might be the ground from the main relay that could be the culprit but I am not sure how to test it. When I look at the wiring diagram (and not saying I know how to read it), it looks like when the ignition is on, power from the engine fuse will complete the circuit/ground and close the relay that would complete the circuit from the "hot at all times white/green wire" coming from the fuel inj fuse that then supplies the power to the white/red wire to the ECU... Whew..did you follow of that!!

Net/net: If the ground is good coming out of the main relay then the W/R should be hot? How do I test the ground?

Jfornachon Verified Driver
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Year : 1991
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You can make a jumper and make your own ground. If the new groung works you have found the problem. hope that helps.

Have a great day,
Jared

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Ok... I just looked at the wiring diagram and have something for you to look at.

The black wire coming off the relay goes to the ignition switch. The ignition switch grounds that wire when it's in the 'run' position. Turn the ignition to the 'run' position, take your ohmmeter and make sure you have continuity between that pin in the relay socket and ground.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

E-Speed Motorsports Verified Driver
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I should be able to help you if you can't diagnose it yourself. I am located in Kannapolis NC. All we do is Mazda products. I will provide contact info if you request.
Did this just pop up all of a sudden without any notice, or after repair/installation work was done on something else? Has it run after the engine swap? or is this when the problem popped up? Give me some background.

Estus White

--------------------
everything was fine after they got the fire put out.

E-Speed Motorsports
Race Engineering

Mike C Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by jkballardbpl:
Jason - double checked them all.

Ramjet - This is the one area that I thought would most liekly be the problem. When I installed the engine, I crushed the CAS plastice case (protects the pins) against the firewall. So I replaced the CAS with a spare. The connections look good and tight and the CAS seats up nicely in the Head. There is a very outside chance that the replacement CAS is bad as I cannot remember if it came from one of the engines I have run.

I also checked the blue wire coming out of the ignition (looks to go to the coils) and it is hot in the ignition on position.

To me, everything points back to the white/red wire coming out of the main relay (cold) as I am pretty sure it supplies the power to all of the common functions (ecu, fuel injectors...). I have a guess that it might be the ground from the main relay that could be the culprit but I am not sure how to test it. When I look at the wiring diagram (and not saying I know how to read it), it looks like when the ignition is on, power from the engine fuse will complete the circuit/ground and close the relay that would complete the circuit from the "hot at all times white/green wire" coming from the fuel inj fuse that then supplies the power to the white/red wire to the ECU... Whew..did you follow of that!!

Net/net: If the ground is good coming out of the main relay then the W/R should be hot? How do I test the ground?

Where did your spare CAS come from??? Wrong year? wrong production run of 1.8's.. They made some changes in 95 that really screw things up!

--------------------
Mike Collins
MEATHEAD Racing
http://www.SHEETZ.com
The MEATHEAD Racing 2010 Calendar is up!!!!
www.MEATHEADRacing.com
SMAC Member
WDCR-SCCA SM Drivers Rep.
ALL OPINIONS ON RULES OR SPECIFICATIONS ARE JUST THAT, MY OPINIONS!

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Mike, will a dud CAS cause the power to the ECU to be absent??

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

panic motorsports Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Jim, what did you have controlling fuel/timing with the turbo setup? Did something get disturbed with the removal of that system? Man, I wish I had some pieces to send you to try, just out of the 1.8 stuff at the moment.

--------------------
Steve and Becca Bertok
#90 SM 2008/2009 Carolina Cup Pro Series SM champions.
2010 VIR 13 hour enduro victorious! www.panicmotorsports.com
Need a salvage Miata part? We've got that!

jkballardbpl Verified Driver
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Year : 95
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Mike: I just swapped back to the original CAS, no dice. The plastic clip (on the CAS) is in decent shape so I believe that this may not be the problem (not totally certain given the comments above).

Kent: Tried the continuity test. Can't say I know what I'm doing but here is what I did. With the battery disconnected,the main relay pulled, and the ignition in the on position; put the probe in the pin socket to the B wire (ground that goes to ignition) and the other lead to ground. My continutiy tester light came on. I also did it with the ignition in the off position and also got the closed circuit light. I repeated this whole test with the probe in the B/w wire with the same results (closed circuit). Just for grins I also repeated with the w/g, w/r and had no light (open circuit). I'm not sure if I did exactly what you were thinking?? Does the closed B ground circuit prove out that there is no ground wire break (open circuit) from the main relay to ignition thus eliminating it as the culprit?

I have to travel Monday-Wednesday so this is as far as I can go tonight.

Estus: I had to cut the front clip off and weld on a new front end. The car has not run since I put the engine back in. I hit a wall at RA and besides the frame/suspension damage, I also had some electrical shorting as some wires got pinched. The radiator fan fuse blew (30amp) but that looked to be the only visable signs.

jkballardbpl Verified Driver
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Steve: Good thought. I was running a BIPES ACU and yes it was spliced into the CAS lead into the ECU. When I took all the turbo stuff off, I soldered the wires back together.

E-Speed Motorsports Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by jkballardbpl:

Estus: I had to cut the front clip off and weld on a new front end. The car has not run since I put the engine back in. I hit a wall at RA and besides the frame/suspension damage, I also had some electrical shorting as some wires got pinched. The radiator fan fuse blew (30amp) but that looked to be the only visable signs.

All of the advice I have seen here is good sound advice. If you can't get it running on your own, I'm positive that I can get you going. With so many variables involved with the crash damage, electrical damage, and who knows what else, it will probabaly need to come to the shop. I can provide references if you don't know me.
Estus

--------------------
everything was fine after they got the fire put out.

E-Speed Motorsports
Race Engineering

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

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quote:
Originally posted by E-Speed Motorsports:
quote:
Originally posted by jkballardbpl:

Estus: I had to cut the front clip off and weld on a new front end. The car has not run since I put the engine back in. I hit a wall at RA and besides the frame/suspension damage, I also had some electrical shorting as some wires got pinched. The radiator fan fuse blew (30amp) but that looked to be the only visable signs.

All of the advice I have seen here is good sound advice. If you can't get it running on your own, I'm positive that I can get you going. With so many variables involved with the crash damage, electrical damage, and who knows what else, it will probabaly need to come to the shop. I can provide references if you don't know me.
Estus

Yep, this is one of those cases where a second set of (experienced) eyes is helpful.

The results of the ohmmeter test are confusing. The Black wire should be switched by the key and should pull the relay closed. The lack of power to the ECU has to be the common denominator. Nothing else matters if there is no juice on the White/Red wire.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

jkballardbpl Verified Driver
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Kent: Agreed. Estus, I'll PM you to get your contact info.

Thanks you guys for all of the posts.

Jim

panic motorsports Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Watch out taking it to Estus, his favorite method for "fixing" things is cramming a rotary engine in it [Wink]

--------------------
Steve and Becca Bertok
#90 SM 2008/2009 Carolina Cup Pro Series SM champions.
2010 VIR 13 hour enduro victorious! www.panicmotorsports.com
Need a salvage Miata part? We've got that!

E-Speed Motorsports Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by panic motorsports:
Watch out taking it to Estus, his favorite method for "fixing" things is cramming a rotary engine in it [Wink]

Well, they do make gobbs of horse power, and the LeMons judges actually believed that we had less than $500.00 in our clunker.
A good rotor motor would make a Miata go. Wonder if we could slide it past Budddy Matthews?
Oh yeah, and it only takes two wires to make a 12A run.

Speaking of cramming a rotary engine in it, 225 streetable HP in the 13B powered early Mini Cooper. That's 80 cubic inches, non turbo, all motor, no juice.

--------------------
everything was fine after they got the fire put out.

E-Speed Motorsports
Race Engineering

E-Speed Motorsports Verified Driver
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCHvB2-yDfs

I stole this off another thread.

--------------------
everything was fine after they got the fire put out.

E-Speed Motorsports
Race Engineering

jkballardbpl Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by E-Speed Motorsports:
quote:
Originally posted by panic motorsports:
Watch out taking it to Estus, his favorite method for "fixing" things is cramming a rotary engine in it [Wink]

Well, they do make gobbs of horse power, and the LeMons judges actually believed that we had less than $500.00 in our clunker.
A good rotor motor would make a Miata go. Wonder if we could slide it past Budddy Matthews?
Oh yeah, and it only takes two wires to make a 12A run.

Speaking of cramming a rotary engine in it, 225 streetable HP in the 13B powered early Mini Cooper. That's 80 cubic inches, non turbo, all motor, no juice.

I'm easily persuaded to the dark side but I'll do my best to stay stock. If Performance Touring had more than one car running, just call me the Sith. Speaking of LeMons, we took an E21 beater there that we got running only three days before the event and the Judge thought be brought a cheater car and docked us 100 laps... sounds like a make up call :0)

E-Speed Motorsports Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by jkballardbpl:
I'm easily persuaded to the dark side but I'll do my best to stay stock. If Performance Touring had more than one car running, just call me the Sith. Speaking of LeMons, we took an E21 beater there that we got running only three days before the event and the Judge thought be brought a cheater car and docked us 100 laps... sounds like a make up call :0) [/QB]

They dinged us 5 laps because they decided that we had a new fan belt. Using their rules, that would make it a $50.00 fan belt if it had actually been a new or even changed belt, which it was not. It's suppose to be all for fun, and I guess it was. We finished in 8th out of 94 starters, and did not run the last 20 min. We did our last stop and our driver put it in reverse. It locked in reverse and would not come back out of it. I had the judges talked into letting us go out in reverse, but then we got out voted by the powers to be that it might not be safe to race in reverse. O-Well, Sept. Lemons is coming soon.

--------------------
everything was fine after they got the fire put out.

E-Speed Motorsports
Race Engineering

   

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